QBs, so ...

[OV Argo]

The Argos had basically no running game until the last four or five weeks of the season, IIRC. Basically once Hunter got ensconced at LG. Hopefully this year they can build on that cohesion and become more effective running the ball. It would help if their tackles stayed healthy, of course.

Yet, pretty well most O-line wisdom says it is easier for O-linemen to run block and they enjoy that more. This is way more to do with offensive philosophy and thinking rather than playing to offensive strengths, IMO. You would think the coaching staff learned from the better ground game that helped paved the way to a GC win, AND get that it can help take pressure off a young QB. Could be a good time to see what young Adebobye can bring to the run game to go along with the talented duo of Harris & AJ - that would show faith in the run and diversity. But we shall see - seeing is believing for me in football - talk is another thing.

[paulwoods13]

Yet, pretty well most O-line wisdom says it is easier for O-linemen to run block and they enjoy that more. This is way more to do with offensive philosophy and thinking rather than playing to offensive strengths, IMO. You would think the coaching staff learned from the better ground game that helped paved the way to a GC win, AND get that it can help take pressure off a young QB. Could be a good time to see what young Adebobye can bring to the run game to go along with the talented duo of Harris & AJ - that would show faith in the run and diversity. But we shall see - seeing is believing for me in football - talk is another thing.

I think most o-line wisdom also says you need cohesion. The o-line had many configurations last season, including three different left tackles, a raw rookie for much of the season at LG and a weak link for a few games at RT. I don't disagree that the offensive philosophy might have been too pass-oriented, but I didn't see much evidence of success when they did run the ball until the home stretch.

[Rich]

I think most o-line wisdom also says you need cohesion. The o-line had many configurations last season, including three different left tackles, a raw rookie for much of the season at LG and a weak link for a few games at RT. I don't disagree that the offensive philosophy might have been too pass-oriented, but I didn't see much evidence of success when they did run the ball until the home stretch.

Yeah how many times did we see both Harris and Ouellette fighting like hell for 5 or 6 or 7 yards completely on their own with no help from the hogs. Dinwiddie stuck with it even when it wasn’t working, which was to his credit in the big picture. Part of the problem was statistical, IIRC the Argos didn’t have a single run from scrimmage longer than 20 yds, and most teams have a few of those to pad the stats.

Incidentally they haven’t officially announced Harris’ re-signing yet. Are one or both of the parties having second thoughts?

[Tobin Rote]

Ah yes. Th hate for MBT continues.

It certainly isn't hate... I'm just not all that impressed. I'm equally unimpressed if we head into next season without any experience in the QB room.

[AngeloV]

It certainly isn't hate... I'm just not all that impressed. I'm equally unimpressed if we head into next season without any experience in the QB room.

Not impressed with a QB that led the league in passing yards and his team to the Grey Cup. Taking a whole new level to the not easily impressed thing.

[Will]

Yeah how many times did we see both Harris and Ouellette fighting like hell for 5 or 6 or 7 yards completely on their own with no help from the hogs. Dinwiddie stuck with it even when it wasn’t working, which was to his credit in the big picture. Part of the problem was statistical, IIRC the Argos didn’t have a single run from scrimmage longer than 20 yds, and most teams have a few of those to pad the stats.

Incidentally they haven’t officially announced Harris’ re-signing yet. Are one or both of the parties having second thoughts?

I don't know if there were many, but A.J Ouellette's longest gain was 34 yards against the Alouettes.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Not impressed with a QB that led the league in passing yards and his team to the Grey Cup. Taking a whole new level to the not easily impressed thing.

Cody Fajardo led the CFL in passing yards in 2019.

[paulwoods13]

Cody Fajardo led the CFL in passing yards in 2019.

Bethel-Thompson led the CFL in passing yards in 2022, the year his team won the Grey Cup, which I think was AV's point. But MBT also did lead the league in touchdown passes in 2019.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Bethel-Thompson led the CFL in passing yards in 2022, the year his team won the Grey Cup, which I think was AV's point. But MBT also did lead the league in touchdown passes in 2019.

Yeah I have to stop arguing like a jerk I apologize for that.

I am very thankful for MBT's invaluable contribution to winning the Grey Cup and I'm pretty sure most rational Argo fans are. I do not believe that criticizing his NFL aspirations automatically amounts to hate though.

[Tobin Rote]

Yeah I have to stop arguing like a jerk I apologize for that.

I am very thankful for MBT's invaluable contribution to winning the Grey Cup and I'm pretty sure most rational Argo fans are. I do not believe that criticizing his NFL aspirations automatically amounts to hate though.

Hundred percent agree... BTW, I wasn't criticizing his NFL prospects... I was certainly questioning them however. If we're attempting to call MBT a great (or even a very good) quarterback... it certainly demonstrates just how far the CFL has regressed in terms of quarterback play. However, I suppose he is right there with Fajardo, Harris, Masoli, Adams, Evans etc. I don't think that's saying much.

[AngeloV]

Hundred percent agree... BTW, I wasn't criticizing his NFL prospects... I was certainly questioning them however. If we're attempting to call MBT a great (or even a very good) quarterback... it certainly demonstrates just how far the CFL has regressed in terms of quarterback play. However, I suppose he is right there with Fajardo, Harris, Masoli, Adams, Evans etc. I don't think that's saying much.

Actually, since he has led his team to a championship you have to put him above all those others that you mentioned. Harris won as a back up, but never led a team he was the undisputed starter to a championship. He was way better than you are giving him credit for is all I am saying.

[Shatto]

MBT was not the passer that Ray was or the runner that Allen was but he brought something that enabled him to be a winning QB---leadership. He had great determination and motivated the other players on offense to the best they could be. He would stay in the pocket till the last moment in order to get the ball to a receiver and he took horrendous hits doing so.

We could argue if he was a great or very good QB or not but it can't be denied that he was a very effective QB who showed excellent leadership on the field.

[paulwoods13]

MBT was not the passer that Ray was or the runner that Allen was but he brought something that enabled him to be a winning QB---leadership. He had great determination and motivated the other players on offense to the best they could be. He would stay in the pocket till the last moment in order to get the ball to a receiver and he took horrendous hits doing so.

We could argue if he was a great or very good QB or not but it can't be denied that he was a very effective QB who showed excellent leadership on the field.

Well put, Shatto. IMO he will go down in history as just behind Ray, Flutie, Holloway and Allen. IMO MBT is the best leader this team has had at QB since Holloway.

[OV Argo]

Well put, Shatto. IMO he will go down in history as just behind Ray, Flutie, Holloway and Allen. IMO MBT is the best leader this team has had at QB since Holloway.

Are we talking all-time Argo QBs, or just guys we have seen play lots ?

Joe Thiesmann was a far superior QB talent to MBT IMO; led them to a GC as a rookie (10 & 4 record) and after a bad Argo season where he did not play full time; his 3rd Argo season he led them to 2 games over .500. Strong passing arm and a real run threat QB.

[Argo57]

MBT was not the passer that Ray was or the runner that Allen was but he brought something that enabled him to be a winning QB---leadership. He had great determination and motivated the other players on offense to the best they could be. He would stay in the pocket till the last moment in order to get the ball to a receiver and he took horrendous hits doing so.

We could argue if he was a great or very good QB or not but it can't be denied that he was a very effective QB who showed excellent leadership on the field.

Also tough as nails and extremely durable.

[Tobin Rote]

Actually, since he has led his team to a championship you have to put him above all those others that you mentioned. Harris won as a back up, but never led a team he was the undisputed starter to a championship. He was way better than you are giving him credit for is all I am saying.

I'm sorry... I just don't agree. Unfortunately, the cap really limits the calibre of quarterbacks that we can get to play up here. Another very ordinary quarterback will win the Grey Cup this year too. They're all very ordinary. That's the point. We had one who was better than that... a Canadian to boot... and he's already gone south.

[paulwoods13]

Are we talking all-time Argo QBs, or just guys we have seen play lots ?

Joe Thiesmann was a far superior QB talent to MBT IMO; led them to a GC as a rookie (10 & 4 record) and after a bad Argo season where he did not play full time; his 3rd Argo season he led them to 2 games over .500. Strong passing arm and a real run threat QB.

I'm not in position to comment on anyone I never saw play (such as Rote, Wirkowski and Knox), but I'd rank them that way from when I started watching in 1968. Theismann was obviously talented -- talented enough to play for several years in the NFL -- but in terms of overall body of work as an Argo, I'd rate MBT higher. Two Cups (one as a starter), league leader in passing yards and TD passes, and of course leadership and toughness. Theismann shared the job his first season although was the man by the end of that season. Third season was OK, too. But I have no hesitation ranking MBT (and the other four guys I mentioned) higher than Joe.

[paulwoods13]

I'm sorry... I just don't agree. Unfortunately, the cap really limits the calibre of quarterbacks that we can get to play up here. Another very ordinary quarterback will win the Grey Cup this year too. They're all very ordinary. That's the point. We had one who was better than that... a Canadian to boot... and he's already gone south.

I don't think it's the cap alone -- we had a salary cap as far back as the early 1990s, and that decade was full of Hall of Fame QBs. It's a combination of factors including the growing disparity in salaries between the NFL and every other league, the fact that NFL teams now play "Canadian-style" pass-oriented offence, the fact the NFL finally got over the racism that prevented many Black athletes from playing QB, the fact the NFL stopped being so hung up on height, etc. And now we have two new leagues that pay in US dollars, run shorter seasons and allow guys to jump straight to the NFL in the same year.

[OV Argo]

I don't think it's the cap alone -- we had a salary cap as far back as the early 1990s, and that decade was full of Hall of Fame QBs. It's a combination of factors including the growing disparity in salaries between the NFL and every other league, the fact that NFL teams now play "Canadian-style" pass-oriented offence, the fact the NFL finally got over the racism that prevented many Black athletes from playing QB, the fact the NFL stopped being so hung up on height, etc. And now we have two new leagues that pay in US dollars, run shorter seasons and allow guys to jump straight to the NFL in the same year.

The whole CFL is doomed and dying / so little talent now shtick that seems to be going on in some places now is a bunch of bunk-o IMO, but typical Canadian inferiority complex & navel gazing stuff.

As far as QBs - in the last decade or so - Ricky Ray, Mike Reilly, Collaros, maybe Mitchell at his best, are examples of very good CFL QB talent that would have started for a CFL team in need at pretty well anytime in the past. And then Rourke comes along and sets all-time passing marks in his first season as a starter. But yep, the sky is falling.

[paulwoods13]

As far as QBs - in the last decade or so - Ricky Ray, Mike Reilly, Collaros, maybe Mitchell at his best, are examples of very good CFL QB talent that would have started for a CFL team in need at pretty well anytime in the past. And then Rourke comes along and sets all-time passing marks in his first season as a starter. But yep, the sky is falling.

Not sure I'd have cited Rourke as proof that the CFL needn't worry about losing good QBs like, erm, Rourke.