Game Thread: BC Lions @ Toronto Argonauts

[jerrym]

Salute to Corey Mace on building a great D.

[OV Argo]

Salute to Corey Mace on building a great D.

And could be even better with Henoc back at MLB.

[dmont]

What a game! Great atmosphere. Crowd not as large as the opener, but still lively and loud.

We had no business being in the game in that first quarter! Offense couldn't do anything. BC moving the ball and scoring at will. Then Leake, out of nowhere, with the kick return touchdown. Where did that come from? When's the last time we had one of those? And then a touchdown off an interception! I think we had 19 yards of offense in the entire quarter and and we were still up seven points! Hahahaha!

How about Cam Mutha-@$!%ing-Phillips, eh?? Everybody doubts this guy and wants to make him an alternate, and all he does is make huge plays. Don't know how many yards he had but he bailed us out of a bunch of bad situations.

Chad looked a bit like an inexperienced quarterback for half the game. Holding onto the ball a long time, took some.sacks. played better in the second half, but play calling was conservative. Used his legs and relied on his running backs.

The plan must've been to bait VA. They gave up some huge plays to him, but the Dline got better and started to rush him. That's when the bad decisions really started. Six INTs! The score flattered BC.

Dinwiddie called a good game, but thought he was a little aggressive at times. Maybe I'm risk averse, but there's some situations I would've kicked and he went for it. I hate it when Cameron Dukes is in there on short yardage. The kid ain't got it yet, I'm sorry. That being said, I think he got @%#%ed over on the spot for that turnover on downs. I don't want Chad Kelly in there either for short yardage because I'm afraid he'll get hurt, but I don't think we have a choice right now.

Hope Dylan Giffen is alright. Guy was down for a while and came up holding his ribs.

Hooray for AJ Oulette!!! Everyone knows he's going to run the ball and he still gets a bunch of first downs at the end.

Weird game for the secondary. Giving up huge plays, but also six INTs. I'll be honest, I wasn't a Robertson Daniel fan after the Edmonton game. Thought he had some soft boy plays. Guy was a @%#%ing beaut tonight. Some of those INTs seemed to come pretty easy to the DBs. VA is not going to like film day.

I predicted a loss for this game. Good thing I'm always wrong!!!

[Retrogorilla 2]

Had a blast at the game tonight! Great atmosphere, stupidly overpriced beer and no cash accepted and digital tickets only is very Orwellian - but I'll be back.

["Issues"Mcgee]

Hard to believe the Argos haven't started 3-0 since 1991.

I'm still trying to process what I just saw. This is the football team that I cheer for? There must be some mistake. I really can't remember the last time the Argos have looked this good.

[ArgoRavi]

And if 2 O-linemen go down for the Lions, they can easily go with a D-lineman there.

Might as well just go with 2 QBs dressed always anyhow to have the extra ST guy available - if the 2 QBs go down, the offence can always go wild cat the rest of the game (note how the NFL has made a rule change there to insure a 3rd QB is always available)

The CFL, apparently, has mandated three QBs be dressed for this season also.

[ArgoRavi]

Actually I was hoping you would spell it out with real players, i.e. using this current roster as opposed to a theoretical optimum.

The lineup and its permutations change from week to week based primarily on (1) who's healthy, and (2) what the the coordinators and assistants -- including the special-teams co-ordinator -- say they need to execute the game plan. As noted above, the Argos lost at least one key ST guy this week when Sutton went down. I imagine Mickey Donovan was pushing hard for someone who could fill Sutton's spot on specials, and the guy who emerged was Kwamou. The fact he's officially a linebacker and Sutton is officially a DB is of less importance than what they can bring on specials, although Sutton was more likely to play defence in an emergency than Kwamou is. I would bet a lot of money that Kwamou will be more useful covering kicks and blocking on returns than either Haydel or Byrd would have been. (And it's worth noting that although Byrd dressed last week, he saw something like zero snaps on offence.)

If you don't think special teams is a big part of the who-should-dress discussions, I'd suggest you read Next Man Up by John Feinstein. It has vivid descriptions of the negotiations that went on inside the Ravens coaching room from week to week over which guys would be moved on and off the roster. The ST coach and position coaches/other co-ordinators often had vastly different opinions on which player was needed more.

The number of players dressed hasn't been 42 in years, BTW.

The Argos definitely found the right formula on special teams on Monday night. Their coverage teams were much better and, of course, Leake had a key 91 yard punt return TD which got the Argos kick-started after a sluggish start.

[ArgoRavi]

What a game! Great atmosphere. Crowd not as large as the opener, but still lively and loud.

We had no business being in the game in that first quarter! Offense couldn't do anything. BC moving the ball and scoring at will. Then Leake, out of nowhere, with the kick return touchdown. Where did that come from? When's the last time we had one of those? And then a touchdown off an interception! I think we had 19 yards of offense in the entire quarter and and we were still up seven points! Hahahaha!

How about Cam Mutha-@$!%ing-Phillips, eh?? Everybody doubts this guy and wants to make him an alternate, and all he does is make huge plays. Don't know how many yards he had but he bailed us out of a bunch of bad situations.

Chad looked a bit like an inexperienced quarterback for half the game. Holding onto the ball a long time, took some.sacks. played better in the second half, but play calling was conservative. Used his legs and relied on his running backs.

The plan must've been to bait VA. They gave up some huge plays to him, but the Dline got better and started to rush him. That's when the bad decisions really started. Six INTs! The score flattered BC.

Dinwiddie called a good game, but thought he was a little aggressive at times. Maybe I'm risk averse, but there's some situations I would've kicked and he went for it. I hate it when Cameron Dukes is in there on short yardage. The kid ain't got it yet, I'm sorry. That being said, I think he got @%#%ed over on the spot for that turnover on downs. I don't want Chad Kelly in there either for short yardage because I'm afraid he'll get hurt, but I don't think we have a choice right now.

Hope Dylan Giffen is alright. Guy was down for a while and came up holding his ribs.

Hooray for AJ Oulette!!! Everyone knows he's going to run the ball and he still gets a bunch of first downs at the end.

Weird game for the secondary. Giving up huge plays, but also six INTs. I'll be honest, I wasn't a Robertson Daniel fan after the Edmonton game. Thought he had some soft boy plays. Guy was a @%#%ing beaut tonight. Some of those INTs seemed to come pretty easy to the DBs. VA is not going to like film day.

I predicted a loss for this game. Good thing I'm always wrong!!!

We saw great complementary football tonight by the Argos. Dinwiddie does seem to be getting more aggressive which I have no problem with. They definitely have to figure out the short yardage QB but I would just go with Kelly at this point. Honestly, I don't recall the last time that I saw a QB get injured on such a play anyway.

I have been bullish on Robertson Daniel for three years, but the guy has had terrible luck with injuries and then not being able to find a spot when he returns to health. I thought that he was generally good last week with two fumble recoveries but he was lights out tonight. He came up just two yards short of the CFL record for most interception return yards in a game. He ended up with 170 yards tonight on his 3 picks.

The Argos are currently, far and away IMO, the best team in the East and definitely in the top tier of the league with BC and Winnipeg. Daniel himself had a great interview with TSN following the game and talked about how this team has to continue to improve going into November. I think that we have only seen the tip of the iceberg so far with this team. Can the Argos finish with 14 wins or more this regular season?

[dmont]

Deleted

[TICATS SUCK !]

After a slow start, the Argos (especially on D of course) played a wonderful game. As others have mentioned, Dukes needs to be replaced on QB sneaks. I will go out on a limb and say the failure of the receiver ( I forget who) to go down immediately after he made the reception just before half-time was his fault, based on the emphatic reaction of coach Dinwiddie! Is it too early to think that this Argo team could be special?

[Will]

What a game!

The offence was not without it's lumps, but Kelly played a solid game and A.J averaged 5 yards a carry (assuming the stats are accurate) against a tough BC defense.

A new receiver steps up every week, and this week it was Phillips, and Brissett continues to show great improvement.

What can you say about the defense? 6 interceptions, 3 sacks and don't try and run against this team.

[ArgoGabe22]

Apparently Oakmen threw his helmet at the end of the game and left without speaking to teammates. Anyone see it?

[paulwoods13]

Yep - and the greatest CFL football (IMO - far superior to today's version) featured rosters of less than 40 players dressed; OMG the hardship though for coaches trying to figure out their ST guys, and the poor offensive or defensive players who had to do some ST duties as well. ;o)


And such a roster line-up I suggested would be created with that type of line-up in mind, and barring a large amount of injuries, there should be guy on the PR or stashed somewhere who can replace a player at that specific position, and the guy could do the ST job as well.

Honestly, OV, if you think just any guy "stashed somewhere" can "do the ST job as well," there is no point in continuing this discussion. We fundamentally disagree on what is expected of players on special teams.

[OV Argo]

Honestly, OV, if you think just any guy "stashed somewhere" can "do the ST job as well," there is no point in continuing this discussion. We fundamentally disagree on what is expected of players on special teams.

Yep; no point.

[Will]

Apparently Oakmen threw his helmet at the end of the game and left without speaking to teammates. Anyone see it?

No

Also, how is it that the Argos ended up on the short-end of the stick on that fracas late in the game (30 yard loss)?

[paulwoods13]

No

Also, how is it that the Argos ended up on the short-end of the stick on that fracas late in the game (30 yard loss)?

It was impossible to see everything, but it looked like a few guys decided to retaliate after Harris was forcefully thrown to the ground after the whistle. Tempers were high throughout this game.

[shayman]

There were four guys near us who were chirping at the BC Lions bench so incessantly - and getting some angry looks and responses back from the players - that security actually came over several times and told them to cool it. I think I'm on security's side here; even though it was kind of great to see some lively banter and overall the atmosphere last night was lots of fun, it's possible to go too far.

[OV Argo]

There were four guys near us who were chirping at the BC Lions bench so incessantly - and getting some angry looks and responses back from the players - that security actually came over several times and told them to cool it. I think I'm on security's side here; even though it was kind of great to see some lively banter and overall the atmosphere last night was lots of fun, it's possible to go too far.

Internet tough guys chirping from the stands deserve a little post game meet & greet with the players they are mouthing at.

[paulwoods13]

There were four guys near us who were chirping at the BC Lions bench so incessantly - and getting some angry looks and responses back from the players - that security actually came over several times and told them to cool it. I think I'm on security's side here; even though it was kind of great to see some lively banter and overall the atmosphere last night was lots of fun, it's possible to go too far.

There's no need to bait any professional athlete, IMO. It's fine to hate a team, but the guys who are putting their health on the line for our entertainment don't deserve abuse. The "B.C. sucks" chant that erupted briefly in the fourth quarter came as a bit of a surprise since there has never been any kind of a true rivalry between these two teams, 1983 and 2004 notwithstanding.

On an unrelated note, it was great to see the Dictator and Mrs. Dictator conducting your section in Go Argos Go. Our row was also bellowing it out.

[paulwoods13]

We seemed to come out of this game relatively healthy, except for Giffen who did not return to the game and was not on the sideline in the second half. He seemed to have either a rib or rotator cuff injury, based on how they were working on him on the sideline. Before he got hurt he was far less dominant than he had been against Edmonton, but I'd still like him in there holding down the fort for Bladek if possible. If he can't go in two weeks, I wonder if they might bump Nicastro back out to RG and put Ciraco in at centre. MacKellar acquitted himself fine last night, after taking a holding penalty on his first play replacing Giffen. The line as a whole surrendered some big-time pressure at times -- Betts is a real beast this year.