Game Thread: Edmonton Elks @ Toronto Argonauts

[Rich]

You want some cheese with that whine Gabe? Give it a rest. Nobody on this site is agreeing with you here.

Sounds like you’re not a big fan of free speech.

[Rich]

I thought Dan Adeboboye looked pretty good. Maybe they have a successor to Harris.

He is special. Maybe a tandem with AJ for years to come. Local kid, wonderful family, grateful to be here, he’s got power, agility and speed — we’re lucky to have him.

[Argo57]

He is special. Maybe a tandem with AJ for years to come. Local kid, wonderful family, grateful to be here, he’s got power, agility and speed — we’re lucky to have him.

A very astute draft pick!

[paulwoods13]

I believe Hunter could hold up well at OT; but still a question mark if it comes down to a big game.

I, too, think Hunter can play tackle. But again, that would challenge our depth and structure. IMO we have five guys who can play the three interior positions -- the three current starters plus Giffen and MacKellar (in that order). Moving one of them to start at tackle leaves us with just one backup inside, and we'd have no backup dressed who could comfortably and effectively play tackle. One of the advantages of our current format (with Hunter at guard and two INT tackles) is that we have a capable backup tackle in the lineup, Hunter, and capable backups who can slide into his guard spot. Moving him to tackle as a starter disrupts that, and IMO the only other capable tackles we have are INTs. So I think having Hunter start at tackle is unlikely.

[ArgoZ]

I agree completely, and I’m a little worried about it. I mean, we don’t really know who the real Chad Kelly is “himself”. He probably sits somewhere in between the spectacular ultra-high level QBing we saw earlier, and the somewhat mediocre performance we saw last night.

He definitely misses Gittens and Phillips. Nield really blew it by slowing down on a perfectly thrown deep ball. And it’s gotta be hard to keep your focus razor sharp when the game is meaningless and you’re running a vanilla offence.

But there’s three more meaningless games to come before the playoffs, let’s hope somehow he can use them to get closer to his earlier form. I would play him 3 quarters in each of the next two games, then one in the last.

Kelly threw that ball so nice. I really like Nield, but he did mess that up. Coxie had a bad drop too. Receivers really made Kelly look like a Superstar early this season. They make those catches, one is probably a TD, and Kelly’s looking much better. The whole team needs to be sharper come playoffs, which could include guys like Nield. I agree, they can’t sit everyone as much as intended. Kelly doesn’t take many sacks, tell him to throw it away more, and it should be fine.

[ArgoZ]

You want some cheese with that whine Gabe? Give it a rest. Nobody on this site is agreeing with you here.

It’s important to separate the big 3 autographs from the event. Overall the event was really good. The lack of communication for the autographs was atrocious. Wristband policies are fine, but that needs to be explained for most people. A simple, “wristband in effect, 150 limited to be distributed at 3pm, so get there early” would have solved so many problems. As someone who has been to many events, I was wondering how this would work. 45 minutes a session is really short and hard to do even 100 people. People were showing up and getting in line at 5pm for Rocket, not knowing they had zero chance, even some people with wristbands didn’t get an autograph, that’s not professional.

[ArgoGabe22]

Sounds like you’re not a big fan of free speech.

Same sh1t. Different day. Why even have a fan forum or bother posting anything? Guess this should be a forum dedicated to AV vs OV only.

Every fan has their own experience or defines their fandom differently. For some it’s the event, others is strictly the games. Some may not care about the autographs, but for others perhaps an autograph could be worth more to them than the game itself. Just because this forum may not collect autographs or post about it, doesn’t mean the miscommunication or mismanagement of the event can’t be shared. It was the worst managed signing I’ve been to. Argos needs fans, needs better engagement, communication, overall fan experience, wins on the field. We can’t pretend everything is perfect and go along like everything is all fine and dandy. Winning unfortunately isn’t everything for some fans or future fans. Why can’t we hold this organization to higher standards and expect the simple things done right?

[Will]

I've looked at Chad's game stats HERE and his completion percentage and touchdowns are down since Labour Day. I think he certainly misses Phillips, but I'm not certain Chad and Kurleigh have ever been on quite the same page this season. I also noticed the following:

1) He did have some games earlier in the season with stat lines similar to post-Labour Day, but he definitely elevated his game against MTL (July), CGY (Aug) and OTT (Aug), which are the two games where the Argos struggled the most.

2) I'd be curious to see what the Argos run to pass ratio has been and whether the rush attempts have increased. I note that the Argos have attempted the fewest passes of any team in the CFL.

3) Javon Leake's returns and takeaways by the defence can also give a short field.

[ArgoGabe22]

Before Gittens went down it seemed like him and Kelly were just getting in rhythm. Much more before the injury than at the start of the season.

[Will]

When he went down, I believe Kurleigh was approaching the same amount of catches as Coxie or Phillips, but he was also getting some of the jet sweeps, which constitute a forward pass so it brought down his average.

[ArgoRavi]

I've looked at Chad's game stats HERE and his completion percentage and touchdowns are down since Labour Day. I think he certainly misses Phillips, but I'm not certain Chad and Kurleigh have ever been on quite the same page this season. I also noticed the following:

1) He did have some games earlier in the season with stat lines similar to post-Labour Day, but he definitely elevated his game against MTL (July), CGY (Aug) and OTT (Aug), which are the two games where the Argos struggled the most.

2) I'd be curious to see what the Argos run to pass ratio has been and whether the rush attempts have increased. I note that the Argos have attempted the fewest passes of any team in the CFL.

3) Javon Leake's returns and takeaways by the defence can also give a short field.

I was thinking about this more today. Remember when we used to have QBs throw for 6000 yards in this league? It's now unusual to see anyone throw for even 5000 yards now because the game has changed. Paul may correctly point out that there are fewer plays run today but I would also argue that the running game is emphasized more today than it has been since the 1970s.

Chad Kelly has been outstanding this season but the truth is that the Argos don't need him to throw for 400 or 500 yards per game (or even 300). They run the ball so damn well plus have good special teams plus a terrific defence. Unfortunately, all of that drags Kelly's stats down. I would also add that how many times this year has Kelly completed a pass to someone to get the Argos within three yards of the endzone? It happened three times the other night, I believe. On most of those occasions, the Argos run the ball in so Kelly doesn't get a passing TD to his credit.

One other note - in today's CFL, if your QB is throwing for 400+ yards in a game, it usually means that you are playing from behind and will probably lose the game.

[AngeloV]

Sounds like you’re not a big fan of free speech.

Wrong Rich. Just not a fan of whining.

[AngeloV]

Same sh1t. Different day. Why even have a fan forum or bother posting anything? Guess this should be a forum dedicated to AV vs OV only.

Gabe, I've had an issue with you since you deleted my post for calling out someone that made a clear anti trans reference, yet you left his post up. Maybe it went a little over your head at the time.
And why bring OV into this. I have my disagreements with him, yes, but that's between us. He didn't comment on your whining.

[ArgoZ]

I was thinking about this more today. Remember when we used to have QBs throw for 6000 yards in this league? It's now unusual to see anyone throw for even 5000 yards now because the game has changed.

One other note - in today's CFL, if your QB is throwing for 400+ yards in a game, it usually means that you are playing from behind and will probably lose the game.

Good observations. Remember, Kelly has very similar numbers to Doug Flutie’s time with the Argos, except only yards. Flutie had over 1000 more at this point. That is because the game is so different and the shorter fields we see today.

[ArgoGabe22]

Gabe, I've had an issue with you since you deleted my post for calling out someone that made a clear anti trans reference, yet you left his post up. Maybe it went a little over your head at the time.
And why bring OV into this. I have my disagreements with him, yes, but that's between us. He didn't comment on your whining.

So calling me a whiner was always personal? You were allowed to voice your frustrations about being mislead about the blue/white game at Guelph (and rightfully so) but anyone you have an issue with can't "whine" about other things? You want to control the forum and decide what gets deleted, who gets banned, who is allowed to whine, who gets called names, then take my job as a mod. You've practically been doing this just minus the added powers. Like the Argos, this forum relies on its members to post and to hopefully lurk less. I just don't understand why you need to go after posters all the time and derail threads. I just won't post anymore, what is the point anymore?

[ArgoGabe22]

Good observations. Remember, Kelly has very similar numbers to Doug Flutie’s time with the Argos, except only yards. Flutie had over 1000 more at this point. That is because the game is so different and the shorter fields we see today.

I bet on Kelly winning the passing title before the season and was looking good at one point, was 2 games behind Collaros and only 200 yards behind but with them just being so dominant, it'll never happen. No need for him to even play or go anywhere near 300 yards/game.

[Will]

You also have Kelly and Dukes combining for 15/25 Argo rushing touchdowns, which indicates that yes, there's been a lot of short-yardage sneak TDs.

[AngeloV]

So calling me a whiner was always personal? You were allowed to voice your frustrations about being mislead about the blue/white game at Guelph (and rightfully so) but anyone you have an issue with can't "whine" about other things? You want to control the forum and decide what gets deleted, who gets banned, who is allowed to whine, who gets called names, then take my job as a mod. You've practically been doing this just minus the added powers. Like the Argos, this forum relies on its members to post and to hopefully lurk less. I just don't understand why you need to go after posters all the time and derail threads. I just won't post anymore, what is the point anymore?

I had the one complaint about the Blue/White game. I even told Pinball about it that day. I have never asked Will to ban anyone from this site. I have no idea where you get that idea from. I don’t want anything deleted, and you still don’t get it. You totally don’t seem to comprehend that the post of mine that you deleted was an objection from me to that poster voicing his opioinions of hate towards transgenders. Or maybe you didn’t get his Bud light reference. That was hate speech. I may be a little aggressive in the way I responded, but a response to a hate speech in that way was justified.

But at the end of the day, I’ll make this a more enjoyable forum for you, and give myself a self imposed ban. I really don’t want to be posting anymore if I’m thought of as such a bad Apple.