Employee Alleged Harassment Case - Chad Kelly

[1971GreyCup]

It's not just coming from the Josh Smiths of the world -- there are Argo fans who want no part of Kelly, either.

And there is a vocal mob (mostly Argo fans, it seems) on social media who are determined to back Kelly, regardless of what he did or didn't do, seemingly for a reason that is the inverse of what you cite -- because they don't want the Argos to lose a valuable weapon on offence. Those relishing the prospect of Kelly going away because it will weaken the Argos, and those worried that him going away will weaken the Argos, are both viewing the situation through a purely football lens. IMO there's more to this than football.

IMO it is way too early to pass judgement. Either way.

[Scooter McCray]

Kelly is making more than $600k; Ford is in the final year of a contract that pays him about $70k.

It impacts Edmonton not Toronto in terms of salary cap. I was looking at it purely in Toronto terms which I understand is wrong. It has to work for both sides. Edmonton would be paying MBT and Chad big dollars. His contract would need to be restructured.

[Will]

A statement from Chad Kelly:

A statement from Chad Kelly:“I have had to take time to process the findings from the CFL investigation released last week as they were not consistent with the person I am, nor the team and community leader I strive to be. I want to be the leader who brings people together and I strongly believe that all workplaces should be safe and healthy for every member of the team. While my legal team awaits the legal findings for review, and explores options to clarify a number of the conclusions from the report, and considers next steps, I will take full advantage of this counselling opportunity to learn, grow and better myself. At the same time, I want to support the Argonauts organization as it prepares for the season and have made the decision to withdraw from training camp to minimize distractions for the team and to put in the work to earn both reinstatement in the CFL and everyone's trust. I look forward to getting back on the field soon."

[paulwoods13]

It impacts Edmonton not Toronto in terms of salary cap. I was looking at it purely in Toronto terms which I understand is wrong. It has to work for both sides. Edmonton would be paying MBT and Chad big dollars. His contract would need to be restructured.

You are correct. That'll teach me to post after my bedtime.

That said, I think Edmonton is extremely unlikely to be interested in Kelly. They have a very big job ahead to rebuild a connection to the community that has been largely lost over the past four or five years, and they need to make things as attractive as possible to private investors. I can't see them thinking there's enough upside in Kelly's on-field abilities to offset what will be seen as his off-field liabilities. And the contract situation would never work -- if they are planning to spend to the max, with Ford eating up just $70k, how could they possibly restructure a $600k deal and make the numbers come out even?

The Argos have already spent $300k against the cap on Kelly's signing bonus. That's a sunk cap charge on a guy who won't play at least the first nine games, unless he somehow gets the penalty reduced. MLSE was happy to spend an entire year's salary on Muamba and Bladek last season, but most of that was likely salary and not bonus, so no cap charge.

Of all the teams in the league, the only one I could see willing to consider bringing in Kelly is Hamilton. If they weren't scared off by Manziel and Briles, I doubt they'd consider Kelly an untenable option.

[Scooter McCray]

You are correct. That'll teach me to post after my bedtime.

That said, I think Edmonton is extremely unlikely to be interested in Kelly. They have a very big job ahead to rebuild a connection to the community that has been largely lost over the past four or five years, and they need to make things as attractive as possible to private investors. I can't see them thinking there's enough upside in Kelly's on-field abilities to offset what will be seen as his off-field liabilities. And the contract situation would never work -- if they are planning to spend to the max, with Ford eating up just $70k, how could they possibly restructure a $600k deal and make the numbers come out even?

The Argos have already spent $300k against the cap on Kelly's signing bonus. That's a sunk cap charge on a guy who won't play at least the first nine games, unless he somehow gets the penalty reduced. MLSE was happy to spend an entire year's salary on Muamba and Bladek last season, but most of that was likely salary and not bonus, so no cap charge.

Of all the teams in the league, the only one I could see willing to consider bringing in Kelly is Hamilton. If they weren't scared off by Manziel and Briles, I doubt they'd consider Kelly an untenable option.

I agree Hamilton is definitely a team that will have interest. You bring up excellent considerations on the Edmonton front, with them seeking new private ownership, and the desperate need to reconnect with an alienated fanbase. Kelly adds complexity they don't need right now.
9 games from now a team or teams will be desperate for QB help and one of them could be the Argos. We will see.
I just can't see him not being allowed to play again. If he demonstrates that kind of behavior again, then I could see the league banning him.

[AngeloV]

Argos signed the extension in 2023. I wonder how much of the signing bonus they were able to allocate to 2023 cap. With big ticket players like Muamba, Bladek and Gittens on the 6 game for all or in Gittens case a good part of the season, they may have had quite a bit of cap space available.

[paulwoods13]

Argos signed the extension in 2023. I wonder how much of the signing bonus they were able to allocate to 2023 cap. With big ticket players like Muamba, Bladek and Gittens on the 6 game for all or in Gittens case a good part of the season, they may have had quite a bit of cap space available.

Reports indicated it was restructured, to move more money to signing bonus, in 2024.

[argolio]

"The investigation only corroborated 3 of the 6 things they investigated, and all were from Kelly asking her out."

I'm so sick of this but of the 3 corroborated, they were not just asking her out. They were verbally aggressive and degrading comments said in front of other players and coaches who confirmed the incidents.

Well then let's get to the heart of the matter. Seems we have three general opinions going around:
1. he should be cut
2. the league suspension and mandated counseling is enough punishment
3. it's too much punishment.

I'm more or less with #2.

[Shatto]

Kelly's statement today makes some interesting points. He does not claim findings in the league report are wrong but states " they are not consistent with the person I am" He also indicates he will consider his next steps after his legal team has clarified a number of conclusions from the report. He also states he will take advantage of the counselling opportunities to learn, grow and better himself.

Sounds as if he is taking the wise step of accepting blame and will seek to improve. It suggests he is listening to sage advice and will probably appeal the league ruling of 9 games to see if he can get the suspension reduced to fewer games.

[OV Argo]

Kelly's statement today makes some interesting points. He does not claim findings in the league report are wrong but states " they are not consistent with the person I am" He also indicates he will consider his next steps after his legal team has clarified a number of conclusions from the report. He also states he will take advantage of the counselling opportunities to learn, grow and better himself.

Sounds as if he is taking the wise step of accepting blame and will seek to improve. It suggests he is listening to sage advice and will probably appeal the league ruling of 9 games to see if he can get the suspension reduced to fewer games.

Back when anyone in Argo management got first wind of this whole matter - IF they had demanded Kelly apologize profusely (even just privately) to the female coach, AND the Argos/MLSE had offered her a nice going away package instead of firing her, I wonder if this would have spun out of control and done serious damage like it has ... ?

[ArgoGabe22]

You are correct. That'll teach me to post after my bedtime.

That said, I think Edmonton is extremely unlikely to be interested in Kelly. They have a very big job ahead to rebuild a connection to the community that has been largely lost over the past four or five years, and they need to make things as attractive as possible to private investors. I can't see them thinking there's enough upside in Kelly's on-field abilities to offset what will be seen as his off-field liabilities. And the contract situation would never work -- if they are planning to spend to the max, with Ford eating up just $70k, how could they possibly restructure a $600k deal and make the numbers come out even?

The Argos have already spent $300k against the cap on Kelly's signing bonus. That's a sunk cap charge on a guy who won't play at least the first nine games, unless he somehow gets the penalty reduced. MLSE was happy to spend an entire year's salary on Muamba and Bladek last season, but most of that was likely salary and not bonus, so no cap charge.

Of all the teams in the league, the only one I could see willing to consider bringing in Kelly is Hamilton. If they weren't scared off by Manziel and Briles, I doubt they'd consider Kelly an untenable option.

Edmonton fans want a winner. If Kelly can bring success, all his troubles will be soon forgotten. I really think you’re underestimating how winning changes everything and over estimating the negative reaction/effect Kelly will bring due to a very vocal bunch. But is it the majority? How many fans left due to domestic violence or assault charges or even knew such charges existed on the previous players that came and went? Chris Rainey anyone?

[primetime31]

Back when anyone in Argo management got first wind of this whole matter - IF they had demanded Kelly apologize profusely (even just privately) to the female coach, AND the Argos/MLSE had offered her a nice going away package instead of firing her, I wonder if this would have spun out of control and done serious damage like it has ... ?

In stepping of the shoes of the coach, consider her future job prospects. If she is applying for a future job then how is she going to account for her Argos experience? Will the Argos provide her with a positive reference? In her mind, she was likely feeling that it would be negative and wasn't going to help her gain another job. Having a time hole in your resume is not a good thing unless you're actively changing industries and can sell this to future employers. Maybe she wants to continue on in her chosen role and doesn't want to change vocations. As such, she may have been forced to file a lawsuit against the team to help her future prospects.

[paulwoods13]

Edmonton fans want a winner. If Kelly can bring success, all his troubles will be soon forgotten. I really think you’re underestimating how winning changes everything and over estimating the negative reaction/effect Kelly will bring due to a very vocal bunch. But is it the majority? How many fans left due to domestic violence or assault charges or even knew such charges existed on the previous players that came and went? Chris Rainey anyone?

If by "winning changes everything," you mean a lot of fans are willing to accept or at least overlook bad behaviour by athletes on their chosen teams, that's obviously true. But not all fans are in this category. Someone recently wrote to me on Twitter: "But he is just part of the franchise. People have to stop putting one player as the be all end all. The team is a unit and when there are shortcomings n such you help each other no matter what to become great again …" My response: "I can go along with supporting each other, but 'no matter what' is a bridge too far for me. It does matter what, IMO." Similarly, one of the mods of an Argo fan Facebook group recently wrote, "Our job as Argos Fans is to step up and support (loud and strong!) whomever is wearing the QB cleats every game, regardless ... " Aside from the fact that I don't consider being a fan a job, I could not disagree more with this. I don't think anyone should be expected to suspend their own beliefs and principles in support of everyone who pulls on the jersey of their favourite team.

As for Chris Rainey and other previous players . . . Of all the Argonauts who have been accused (or in some cases convicted) of doing bad things, only one was the "face of the franchise," and only one was reportedly paid $100k on top of his football salary to promote the team.

[OV Argo]

In stepping of the shoes of the coach, consider her future job prospects. If she is applying for a future job then how is she going to account for her Argos experience? Will the Argos provide her with a positive reference? In her mind, she was likely feeling that it would be negative and wasn't going to help her gain another job. Having a time hole in your resume is not a good thing unless you're actively changing industries and can sell this to future employers. Maybe she wants to continue on in her chosen role and doesn't want to change vocations. As such, she may have been forced to file a lawsuit against the team to help her future prospects.

Again - an ordered (or else you're gonzo) profuse apology from Kelly; a generous going away package + a nice resume review, and maybe this thing never gets to where it is now; instead of just getting rid of the coach and hoping it could all be just swept under the rug.

I'd support Kelly staying with the Argos IF he owns up to his boorish & moron behavior and says he will get help to make sure nothing like this happens again; if he (and whoever with the Argos & MLSE) OTOH believe this was just a minor transgression and no big deal = then see ya later - get out of town / good riddance. Homer fans rallying to support their guy, no matter what = pathetic, IMO.

[ArgoRavi]

If by "winning changes everything," you mean a lot of fans are willing to accept or at least overlook bad behaviour by athletes on their chosen teams, that's obviously true. But not all fans are in this category. Someone recently wrote to me on Twitter: "But he is just part of the franchise. People have to stop putting one player as the be all end all. The team is a unit and when there are shortcomings n such you help each other no matter what to become great again …" My response: "I can go along with supporting each other, but 'no matter what' is a bridge too far for me. It does matter what, IMO." Similarly, one of the mods of an Argo fan Facebook group recently wrote, "Our job as Argos Fans is to step up and support (loud and strong!) whomever is wearing the QB cleats every game, regardless ... " Aside from the fact that I don't consider being a fan a job, I could not disagree more with this. I don't think anyone should be expected to suspend their own beliefs and principles in support of everyone who pulls on the jersey of their favourite team.

As for Chris Rainey and other previous players . . . Of all the Argonauts who have been accused (or in some cases convicted) of doing bad things, only one was the "face of the franchise," and only one was reportedly paid $100k on top of his football salary to promote the team.

One of the key aspects of the Chad Kelly situation is that what happened occurred in the workplace. Another employee of the team was affected negatively. I don't think this can be washed away so easily because it says a lot about the climate of the organization.

I will also add that the only CFL team Chad Kelly had an interest in playing for was the Argos; Edmonton previously held his rights and he didn't want to go there. Maybe he would be desperate enough to go there now but I wouldn't count on that.