Employee Alleged Harassment Case - Chad Kelly

**ArgoRavi** · 05-09-2024, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Will

There is evidently some sort of loophole (or interpretation) with regards to this suspension. The CFL says it is up to the Argos, and the Argos have interpreted it to mean that Kelly can be at training camp in some sort of capacity. I don't think this is a very smart PR move for the Argos.

This is a PR nightmare that Pelley, Manning, and Pinball are only making worse by the day.

**AngeloV** · 05-09-2024, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by ArgofanIan

Howard Berger... mentioned his facebook its his opinion... that he feels ARGO's will cut ties with Chad Kelly shortly .... not stating any inside sources directly.... just a heads up incase he is correct.... wasn't something I was expecting at this time....

The same Howard Berger that posted a picture on his site of a woman’s butt at an Argos @ Ti-Cats game with the caption nice view (paraphrasing)

**Will** · 05-09-2024, 01:00 PM

I don't consider Howard Berger to be 'in the know' anymore.

**AngeloV** · 05-09-2024, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by ArgoRavi

This is a PR nightmare that Pelley, Manning, and Pinball are only making worse by the day.

In your opinion. As I asked what if the courts dismiss the charges? I would think the League and perhaps Ambrosie personally would be open to a lawsuit from Kelly.

**kellynjk** · 05-09-2024, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by AngeloV

In your opinion. As I asked what if the courts dismiss the charges? I would think the League and perhaps Ambrosie personally would be open to a lawsuit from Kelly.

AngeloV - that's an interesting point. I guess my question is even if the civil case gets dismissed, couldn't Kelly still be guilty of violating the CFL's non-gender anti-violence policy? I don't know the answer I guess I'm just highlighting that if the CFL has policies that an athlete has violated in some manner, they could still dole out punishment regardless of what happens in a court case couldn't them? Also one would hope that the CFL brass had consulted with their legal team being doing anything. I guess time will tell.

**kellynjk** · 05-09-2024, 03:57 PM

Suspended QB Kelly on field with Argos Thursday

Quarterback Chad Kelly, who is under suspension for violating the Canadian Football League's gender-based violence policy, was on the field Thursday at the Toronto Argonauts' rookie camp.
Kelly's appearance at the University of Guelph comes just two days after the CFL suspended its 2023 Most Outstanding Player Award winner for at least nine regular-season games following its investigation into a lawsuit filed by a former strength-and-conditioning coach against Kelly for sexual harassment and the club for wrongful dismissal.
Kelly is also suspended for Toronto’s two pre-season games.
Argos general manager Mike “Pinball” Clemons told reporters Kelly's presence was within the conditions of the league's discipline.
Clemons said that should Kelly decide to appeal the suspension — and theoretically be allowed to play until an arbitration hearing — the Argos would make a decision at that time regarding any team-issued discipline.
"At this point we are following the league’s requirements to the letter, right? So, that’s actually a different conversation for a different day. But in this particular situation, we are very committed to making sure that we follow the league’s direction," Clemons said.
Kelly, 30, was on the field but not in equipment and appeared to be working with the Argos rookie quarterbacks.
“He was there but did not practice. So, he’s allowed to be out here, right? And the league has given him that permission, and we will follow the league’s direction with that," Clemons said.
Kelly was the CFL’s outstanding player last season after leading Toronto to a league-best and franchise-record 16-2 mark.
But the Argos' campaign ended with a 38-17 loss to the Montreal Alouettes in the East Division final.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. Personally I think it's a bad look for Argos - "like business as usual". But I guess Pinball says it's within the CFL rules and the article states that Kelly was not in uniform and did not practice. It makes me appreciate what a delicate situation this is for the Argos and how difficult it's going to be to figure out the appropriate next steps.

**paulwoods13** · 05-09-2024, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by AngeloV

In your opinion. As I asked what if the courts dismiss the charges? I would think the League and perhaps Ambrosie personally would be open to a lawsuit from Kelly.

First of all, as has been noted before, there are no "charges" to "dismiss." There is a civil suit which, if it goes to trial, will be contested and decided by a judge. The plaintiff will either win the suit or lose it. Whether or not the suit is successful, Kelly can pursue any recourse open to him (although as a member of a certified bargaining unit, he might not legally have the option of suing the commissioner or the league). If he were entitled to file such a suit and did so, it would also be heard in civil court and he would either win or lose.

None of that changes the fact that this is indeed, as Ravi has suggested, a PR nightmare for the organization. Some diehard fans are really questioning their allegiance to the Argos, and people in every other CFL city are either laughing at or condemning Argo mgmt -- including Pinball, who until recently was almost universally revered around the league. The club's handling of this matter has almost been a case study in how not to respond to a crisis IMO. And Pinball's newser today has only muddied the waters further.

**kellynjk** · 05-09-2024, 04:28 PM

I agree that the Argos's handling of this has been abysmal. Personally I would have told Kelly not to come to training camp. He is a distraction and not a good one and I'm sure it's not helping the overall morale of the team, that the whole focus is on this Kelly situation and none of the other team members. And sorry but I think that it looks like the Argos are not taking any of this seriously (and haven't from the beginning) and that really disturbs and disappoints me.

**OV Argo** · 05-09-2024, 04:32 PM

Who are the "rookie quarterbacks" (plural) that Kelly would be working with ?

**paulwoods13** · 05-09-2024, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by OV Argo

Who are the "rookie quarterbacks" (plural) that Kelly would be working with ?

I'm just guessing it would be Hunter Raquet and whomever is the USports intern.

**AngeloV** · 05-09-2024, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by kellynjk

AngeloV - that's an interesting point. I guess my question is even if the civil case gets dismissed, couldn't Kelly still be guilty of violating the CFL's non-gender anti-violence policy? I don't know the answer I guess I'm just highlighting that if the CFL has policies that an athlete has violated in some manner, they could still dole out punishment regardless of what happens in a court case couldn't them? Also one would hope that the CFL brass had consulted with their legal team being doing anything. I guess time will tell.

I don't know the answer either, which is why I ask.

**AngeloV** · 05-09-2024, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by paulwoods13

First of all, as has been noted before, there are no "charges" to "dismiss." There is a civil suit which, if it goes to trial, will be contested and decided by a judge. The plaintiff will either win the suit or lose it. Whether or not the suit is successful, Kelly can pursue any recourse open to him (although as a member of a certified bargaining unit, he might not legally have the option of suing the commissioner or the league). If he were entitled to file such a suit and did so, it would also be heard in civil court and he would either win or lose.

None of that changes the fact that this is indeed, as Ravi has suggested, a PR nightmare for the organization. Some diehard fans are really questioning their allegiance to the Argos, and people in every other CFL city are either laughing at or condemning Argoi mgmt -- including Pinball, who until recently was almost universally revered around the league. The club's handling of this matter has almost been a case study in how not to respond to a crisis IMO. And Pinball's newser today has only muddied the waters further.

I meant the case, not the charges. I am not a lawyer, so excuse my wording on this.

For the record, I have no issue with a suspension. I do however feel that it is way more than what it should be. There was no violence involved (sorry, I don't consider "reportedly" yelling "I can't wait for you to get fired" as violence. Chris Edwards got six games for physically fighting with a fan, and that was reduced to 3. We all don't know the entire story and likely never will. I just think referring to this as "violence" is quite a stretch.

**Rich** · 05-09-2024, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by kellynjk

it looks like the Argos are not taking any of this seriously (and haven't from the beginning) and that really disturbs and disappoints me.

Pinball said the Argos were fully complying with the League’s terms and conditions. How is this not taking the matter seriously? Should they be lobbying the League to increase the suspension to 18 games?

**paulwoods13** · 05-09-2024, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Rich

Pinball said the Argos were fully complying with the League’s terms and conditions. How is this not taking the matter seriously? Should they be lobbying the League to increase the suspension to 18 games?

No, they should be cutting ties to him entirely.

**Will** · 05-09-2024, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by paulwoods13

First of all, as has been noted before, there are no "charges" to "dismiss." There is a civil suit which, if it goes to trial, will be contested and decided by a judge. The plaintiff will either win the suit or lose it. Whether or not the suit is successful, Kelly can pursue any recourse open to him (although as a member of a certified bargaining unit, he might not legally have the option of suing the commissioner or the league). If he were entitled to file such a suit and did so, it would also be heard in civil court and he would either win or lose.

None of that changes the fact that this is indeed, as Ravi has suggested, a PR nightmare for the organization. Some diehard fans are really questioning their allegiance to the Argos, and people in every other CFL city are either laughing at or condemning Argo mgmt -- including Pinball, who until recently was almost universally revered around the league. The club's handling of this matter has almost been a case study in how not to respond to a crisis IMO. And Pinball's newser today has only muddied the waters further.

A civil suit could, in theory, be dismissed, so it's not a question of win or lose. There is more than one reason that it can be dismissed, some of which that doesn't necessarily mean Kelly and/or the Argos are innocent.

**Will** · 05-09-2024, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Rich

Pinball said the Argos were fully complying with the League’s terms and conditions. How is this not taking the matter seriously? Should they be lobbying the League to increase the suspension to 18 games?

Doing the bare minimum is not going to go over well in this situation.