Employee Alleged Harassment Case - Chad Kelly

[kellynjk]

We were discussing earlier how it seemed like the best thing would be if this is settled out of court. But based on Jim Barker's comments about the process, it sounds like if this happens, everyone has to sign a non-disclosure promising not to disclose any of the details about the settlement etc. And I imagine if I were Chad Kelly, it would frustrating not to be able to give my side of the story or the details of how or why it was settled. So it kind of leaves this accusation / label hanging over his head, which doesn't seem fair.

It might come down to a case of "he said, she said" about the encounters, unless there were any witnesses to any or some of the incidents that the woman cited. And if the claims outlined in the case are correct that the Argos didn't do anything to address her complaints/ concerns, I could see the CFL coming down on the Argos for either not having the proper processes in place or not properly educating their management team on how to address such concerns in the workplace.

[Will]

We were discussing earlier how it seemed like the best thing would be if this is settled out of court. But based on Jim Barker's comments about the process, it sounds like if this happens, everyone has to sign a non-disclosure promising not to disclose any of the details about the settlement etc. And I imagine if I were Chad Kelly, it would frustrating not to be able to give my side of the story or the details of how or why it was settled. So it kind of leaves this accusation / label hanging over his head, which doesn't seem fair.

It might come down to a case of "he said, she said" about the encounters, unless there were any witnesses to any or some of the incidents that the woman cited. And if the claims outlined in the case are correct that the Argos didn't do anything to address her complaints/ concerns, I could see the CFL coming down on the Argos for either not having the proper processes in place or not properly educating their management team on how to address such concerns in the workplace.

Rick Westhead's initial article from a few weeks ago mentions that there were apparently witnesses to some (but not all) of the incidents that he summarizes.

Your point regarding any settlement and NDA is well-taken.

[Shatto]

I was also trying to being humorous with the "it's a fair cop, Guv" You are absolutely correct sometimes the discussions can get a little too serious and a little levity is welcome. Good for you.

[AngeloV]

I was also trying to being humorous with the "it's a fair cop, Guv" You are absolutely correct sometimes the discussions can get a little too serious and a little levity is welcome. Good for you.

That's why gilthethrill is my favourite member of the board.

[paulwoods13]

I haven't listened (mostly because it's Rod), but I inferred that the comment was made after he interviewed Jim Barker, which might or might not be coincidental.

[Will]

I haven't listened (mostly because it's Rod), but I inferred that the comment was made after he interviewed Jim Barker, which might or might not be coincidental.

It was actually at the beginning of the show prior to Jim being on.

[gilthethrill]

3 Down Nation Podcast opened up discussing the Kelly allegations regarding some of the legal paperwork that has been filed.

This podcast can be located on “You Tube”, 3 Down Nation and where ever podcasts can be found. It is hosted by John Hodge, Justin Dunk and J.C. Abbot.

[Will]

3 Down Nation Podcast opened up discussing the Kelly allegations regarding some of the legal paperwork that has been filed.

This podcast can be located on “You Tube”, 3 Down Nation and where ever podcasts can be found. It is hosted by John Hodge, Justin Dunk and J.C. Abbot.

They were able to get a copy of the statement of claim. They basically stressed patience and that the league needs to get it right.

["Issues"Mcgee]

https://3downnation.com/2024/03/19/t...going-lawsuit/

Whatever the result of this lawsuit, for the time being, thank God the Argos have a management and ownership that sticks by their players and doesn't acquiesce to the sensationalism of the modern media, before seeing any kind of proof of wrongdoing.

[Will]

I'm not sure what people expect the Argos to immediately do regarding Kelly, because as far as I know there are no team activities to suspend him from until mid-May.

["Issues"Mcgee]

An organization full of spineless amoeba would have released him as soon as the allegations came to light.

[ArgoRavi]

The latest on this situation: https://3downnation.com/2024/04/10/l...ssment-claims/

[paulwoods13]

The longer this goes without any apparent conclusion, the worse the heat will get. I get why the league and MLSE might want to let the investigation run its course, but we're closing in on the opening of camp. Some tangible steps need to be taken (and announced) soon, IMO. There are Argo fans -- especially women fans -- talking online about being ready to bail on the team. They may or may not have good reason to feel that way -- all we have at this point are untested, albeit disturbing, allegations -- but I can completely understand why anyone would believe that meaningful action is required, and soon.

[ArgoZ]

The upgraded charge and new public details is a pressure tactic. It’s seems the Argos were not interested in settling at all for the initial case and this is the resulting measures. Interesting that the plaintiff mentions Kelly’s public influence and moral obligations that need dealt with, yet this is still a civil matter and could result in a NDA. While the total money seems to have dropped, the addition of punitive damages could result in a much larger amount if decided by a judge. Argos are on the clock with the season looming. If they don’t settle, there is no way this gets resolved in the court in time. They don’t even have a date. I know it’s frustrating only hearing from one party, but if the Argos are considering settlement, you can’t say anything and if your going to fight this, there is no reason to play any cards at this time and have the plaintiff prepare a defence.

[bluto]

The upgraded charge and new public details is a pressure tactic. It’s seems the Argos were not interested in settling at all for the initial case and this is the resulting measures. Interesting that the plaintiff mentions Kelly’s public influence and moral obligations that need dealt with, yet this is still a civil matter and could result in a NDA. While the total money seems to have dropped, the addition of punitive damages could result in a much larger amount if decided by a judge. Argos are on the clock with the season looming. If they don’t settle, there is no way this gets resolved in the court in time. They don’t even have a date. I know it’s frustrating only hearing from one party, but if the Argos are considering settlement, you can’t say anything and if your going to fight this, there is no reason to play any cards at this time and have the plaintiff prepare a defence.

My read as well. The complainant's legal team is using the tools afforded them. I doubt this was unforseen by the Argos/MLSE/Kelly's legal types.

[kellynjk]

I think it depends on what kind of documented evidence the complainant has. The Human Rights Code defines harassment as "engaging in a course of vexatious (annoying or provoking) comment or conduct which is known or ought reasonably to be known to be unwelcome." It goes on to give examples of what type of behaviour might be considered "sexual harassment" which does include things like asking for dates and not taking no for an answer, or making jokes or comments about a person's appearance, making sexual jokes or bragging about sexual ability etc. It sounds like the complainant is outlining in the brief some examples of this kind of behaviour.

But it's not always straight-forward. There was case of "sexual harassment" made at a place I worked at about a decade ago and although the company did have a process in place to deal with such complaints, it did eventually go to the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario. The Tribunal did not did not side with the complainant because the evidence didn't really support it. It really came down to a case of "she said / he said" as the two individuals involved knew each other and were friendly and he asked her out a number of times and flirted with her etc. Basically he thought he was being charming and she felt like he wouldn't take no for an answer. The company ended up sending the guy to "sensitivity training (which included harassment) and put her on a special project which meant they didn't interact on a daily basis anymore.

I'm sure the Argo's legal team has also looked at the claim (talked to some of their management and team players) and maybe suggested that the case and evidence might not meet the level of harassment under the Code or could be open to interpretation.

But Paul is right the longer this draws out, I think from a PR point of view, the worse it looks for the Argos. I think it will overshadow training camp and the upcoming season until it gets resolved one way or another.

[ArgoRavi]

I think it depends on what kind of documented evidence the complainant has. The Human Rights Code defines harassment as "engaging in a course of vexatious (annoying or provoking) comment or conduct which is known or ought reasonably to be known to be unwelcome." It goes on to give examples of what type of behaviour might be considered "sexual harassment" which does include things like asking for dates and not taking no for an answer, or making jokes or comments about a person's appearance, making sexual jokes or bragging about sexual ability etc. It sounds like the complainant is outlining in the brief some examples of this kind of behaviour.

But it's not always straight-forward. There was case of "sexual harassment" made at a place I worked at about a decade ago and although the company did have a process in place to deal with such complaints, it did eventually go to the Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario. The Tribunal did not did not side with the complainant because the evidence didn't really support it. It really came down to a case of "she said / he said" as the two individuals involved knew each other and were friendly and he asked her out a number of times and flirted with her etc. Basically he thought he was being charming and she felt like he wouldn't take no for an answer. The company ended up sending the guy to "sensitivity training (which included harassment) and put her on a special project which meant they didn't interact on a daily basis anymore.

I'm sure the Argo's legal team has also looked at the claim (talked to some of their management and team players) and maybe suggested that the case and evidence might not meet the level of harassment under the Code or could be open to interpretation.

But Paul is right the longer this draws out, I think from a PR point of view, the worse it looks for the Argos. I think it will overshadow training camp and the upcoming season until it gets resolved one way or another.

Without a doubt, this has cast a pall on the off-season for the Argos and CFL and will continue to be a big story in a month from now when training camp opens, unless there is some kind of resolution by then, which I think is doubtful. I think that the best we can hope for is that the results of the CFL's external investigation comes out within the next month but who knows if that will even happen?

The only positive to the Argos getting little media attention these days is that media scrutiny hasn't been terribly intense to this point. Could you imagine if such allegations were made about Auston Matthews? There would be a media feeding frenzy on a daily basis - both locally and nationally.

[Will]

Whilst I feel the court case needs to play out before I tar and feather him, someone really should be telling Kelly to stay off social media. Nothing is a good look for him right now.

[ArgoGabe22]

Whilst I feel the court case needs to play out before I tar and feather him, someone really should be telling Kelly to stay off social media. Nothing is a good look for him right now.

1000%. But the reaction to his "CFL salaries" RT is overblown. I don't think it was meant to take a shot at the CFL like many have gone bonkers about. Unless he's posting other things.

[paulwoods13]

I don't think it was meant to take a shot at the CFL like many have gone bonkers about. Unless he's posting other things.

He has issued a few other cryptic (to be kind) tweets. But while we don't know what was meant by the WNBA tweet, the very fact that it is open to interpretation -- and therefore subject to criticism, at a time when the heat on him and the org is growing -- is a good reason he should shut the hell up.