Perhaps it is time for a Toronto Argonauts only Stadium.

[1argoholic]

Screw The Jays, Rogers, Leafs, Craptors, TFC etc. The only Argonauts fans are true Argonaut fans. The first friggin game after a VERY long offseason and you draw 20 thou and change. It's obvious that folks hate this stadium and our too lazy to get off the F'ing couch to hit Toronto for a game.
To be honest it was like DEAD MEAT watching this on tv. The crowd noise was ZERO.

Well I guess many got what they wished for with no SH!T music between plays. There was NO sound either. I miss being there to be a drunken ass that I was. At least I made some F@#KING noise.
Sorry Finn I know It's hard going alone.

Time for Braley to show his face. What does his view of the Argonaut future hold? Is he happy with his Lions kicking ass while his Argo play infront of 35 thousand blue seats with a few folks inbetween. How about a new practice facililty. He has said zero since owning the Argos.

[Argocister]

Brought my brother and his wife to the game today. (just moved back from the States)They had a good time but mentioned it looked like the Argos are just here temporarily..... no flags or signs that it is actually an Argos game.... just the Jays. .... Jays on the beer cans and the popcorn bags..... their question was Do the Argos usually play here?
They did have a good time though. The music between plays was held back for the first quarter but then became more prominent after that. The fans did make some noise throughout the game. It was neat how one could manipulate the noise. Whenever they showed some of our troops on the videotron, the cheers would increase. This was great during some of Calgary's offensive plays. At first I thought the person in control of the videotron was doing it on purpose..... but then it happened just before Ricky was about to snap the ball..... We should keep this in our 13th man playbook for future games.

[argolio]

I don't understand why it is seen to be different in Toronto and please nobody try to justify it by saying that the Jays play 81 homes games versus the Argos' nine which is why the Jays are primary tenants and the Argos are not.

How I wish that Harry Ornest never sold the Argo rights to being the Dome's prime tenant to the Jays. What a huge mistake that was.

[Stevoman]

One of my pet peeves for the last twenty-three years is how SkyDome has been looked upon as the "home of the Blue Jays" while the Argos are almost seen as visitors when they play there. The dang stadium wouldn't even exist if it were not for the Argos and what happened in the '82 Grey Cup in Toronto but nobody seems to remember that. It really makes me sick. While it doesn't happen much anymore because MLB and NFL teams seem to have their own stadiums, when those two leagues shared stadiums, those stadiums were seen as being home to BOTH the football and baseball teams (i.e. they were both seen as being primary tenants). I don't understand why it is seen to be different in Toronto and please nobody try to justify it by saying that the Jays play 81 homes games versus the Argos' nine which is why the Jays are primary tenants and the Argos are not. Again, that isn't the case in other markets.

How come they don't have the banners up like they had in 05-2010? At least they provided the stadium with more Argo atmosphere. I'd love a more football friendly stadium.

[shayman]

How come they don't have the banners up like they had in 05-2010? At least they provided the stadium with more Argo atmosphere. I'd love a more football friendly stadium.

Those were terrific, as far as I know that was one of Keith Pelley's great contributions when he was here. I remember the first game when those banners were up - it made me feel "wow, this really is OUR stadium." Wish we could get those back. They added a lot.

[CptArcher]

Those were terrific, as far as I know that was one of Keith Pelley's great contributions when he was here. I remember the first game when those banners were up - it made me feel "wow, this really is OUR stadium." Wish we could get those back. They added a lot.

Agreed.

Bring back the endzone banners that covered the area and made the endzone under the Jumbotron feel less hollow and empty.

Also bring back the 500 level banners and add even more for the sections they didn't have enough banners to cover a few years ago. Covering those seats is key to creating a more intimate atmosphere. i thought the point of closing the 500s was to make it feel more intimate, and this actually worked for a season before attendance started dropping off and now the banners are gone.

As for the sideline banners covering the first levels of seating the Argos have in fact added new banners since Braley became owner: the ones that cover the first 5 rows that aren't even behind the benches. THis was probably inspired by Bills in Toronto as they were the first ones to do this back as soon as they started playing in Toronto. The first 10 rows behind the benches are covered as well and have been for many years.

As for all these sidelines banners covering seats, I say...Get rid of the them! I thought we were trying to bring fans closer to the action, not move them back and kill the atmosphere even more than the Dome already does. Covering 10 rows behind the benches is excessive. 5 rows covered would be plenty. My personal preference would be to have 0 rows covered. Sitting right behind the bench is a really cool experience and there is always the jumbotron to watch if a player is in the way. These are good seats. Advertise them as "obstructed view by player bench" and people will know what they are buying but will still pay to be so close to the action. Having the crowd closer makes it louder and more intimate an atmosphere.

I was watching some videos of the 1991 team and some of the most memorable shots were players walking down the sideline after a touchdown high-fiving fans. Unfortunately this cannot happen with all those banners there on the bottom rows. Just cover the 500s and the North Endzone and leave the good seats for sale, moving the fans closer to the action in the process.

[ArgoRavi]

Time for Braley to show his face. What does his view of the Argonaut future hold? Is he happy with his Lions kicking ass while his Argo play infront of 35 thousand blue seats with a few folks inbetween. How about a new practice facililty. He has said zero since owning the Argos.

Rudge has answered those questions on behalf of Braley recently. A new practice facility is on the horizon and the Argos have put some initiatives in place to increase corporate support and attendance but that won't happen overnight. As for the Lions, they drew 25k last night in the nicest stadium in Canada and one of the nicest in North America with a defending Grey Cup championship team that has lost very little over the last year and that is very exciting. Braley has some issues to deal with in that market as well.

Brought my brother and his wife to the game today. (just moved back from the States)They had a good time but mentioned it looked like the Argos are just here temporarily..... no flags or signs that it is actually an Argos game.... just the Jays. .... Jays on the beer cans and the popcorn bags..... their question was Do the Argos usually play here?

One of my pet peeves for the last twenty-three years is how SkyDome has been looked upon as the "home of the Blue Jays" while the Argos are almost seen as visitors when they play there. The dang stadium wouldn't even exist if it were not for the Argos and what happened in the '82 Grey Cup in Toronto but nobody seems to remember that. It really makes me sick. While it doesn't happen much anymore because MLB and NFL teams seem to have their own stadiums, when those two leagues shared stadiums, those stadiums were seen as being home to BOTH the football and baseball teams (i.e. they were both seen as being primary tenants). I don't understand why it is seen to be different in Toronto and please nobody try to justify it by saying that the Jays play 81 homes games versus the Argos' nine which is why the Jays are primary tenants and the Argos are not. Again, that isn't the case in other markets.

[D-Gap-Willie]

I do not usually take part in conpiracy theories and I do not have a persecution complex -- but the Argos have been subjected to many years of organized attacks against their credibility and their appeal to a potential fan base. Any fan of the Argos in the GTA is now looked upon with scorn and disdain as a result of this ongoing campaign.
Ask around for opinions of the CFL ( and the Argos) -- you will get responses ( sometimes bitter and angry responses) such as bush league, second rate, game for brutes and bullies, etc. - these are responses from the people whose tax dollars would be needed to build an Argos-only stadium.
Hockey is THE game in TO, and the footie fanatics lobby has the ear of the people -- after all it's a " multicultural game " and the beautiful game of the people". That's how BMO Field got built. Canadian football has been pushed out of the schools in TO ( too expensive and brutal) , and the people ( snobs of New York North) are convinced that the game only belongs to the sod busters of the Prairies and the lumberjacks of BC.
Ask a Blue Jays fan why they don't play on a grass field - most will reply "the Argos".
Yes, the stadium is bad but the only fans remaining are truly dedicated CFL/Argo fans. Do you think that 20,000 fans are going to attract the money necessary to build the dream stadium. It is time for both the Argos and Argo fans to start to seriously and creatively popularize the game again -- I see very little of this happening at present, other than the recent documentaries.

[argonaut11xx]

[QUOTE=D-Gap-Willie;9839]Ask around for opinions of the CFL ( and the Argos) -- you will get responses ( sometimes bitter and angry responses) such as bush league, second rate, game for brutes and bullies, etc. - these are responses from the people whose tax dollars would be needed to build an Argos-only stadium.
Hockey is THE game in TO, and the footie fanatics lobby has the ear of the people -- after all it's a " multicultural game " and the beautiful game of the people". That's how BMO Field got built. Canadian football has been pushed out of the schools in TO ( too expensive and brutal) , and the people ( snobs of New York North)/QUOTE]

Read the " Merchant of Venice", Shylock controls the purse stings of Toronto, .....your post was 100% accurate...those other teams are cash cows...the Argo's are just the old sentimental favorite...and because the Argonaut fan base is aging...we are becoming less relevant with every passing day

[Will]

[QUOTE=argonaut11xx;9938]

Ask around for opinions of the CFL ( and the Argos) -- you will get responses ( sometimes bitter and angry responses) such as bush league, second rate, game for brutes and bullies, etc. - these are responses from the people whose tax dollars would be needed to build an Argos-only stadium.
Hockey is THE game in TO, and the footie fanatics lobby has the ear of the people -- after all it's a " multicultural game " and the beautiful game of the people". That's how BMO Field got built. Canadian football has been pushed out of the schools in TO ( too expensive and brutal) , and the people ( snobs of New York North)/QUOTE]

Read the " Merchant of Venice", Shylock controls the purse stings of Toronto, .....your post was 100% accurate...those other teams are cash cows...the Argo's are just the old sentimental favorite...and because the Argonaut fan base is aging...we are becoming less relevant with every passing day

Who is Shylock in Toronto?

[Will]

I'd love him to see him answer that question.....though maybe it would be better if he didn't.

You're damned right it wouldn't be!

[ArgoRavi]

I'd love him to see him answer that question.....though maybe it would be better if he didn't.

I was thinking the same thing.

[ArgoRavi]

To address the original post of this thread, Steve Buffery has a relevant column from Sunday's Sun: http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/07...heric-pressure

[Chuckonauts]

You know Argos fans have been dreaming of a cozy 30k seat stadium for years despite the Cynamon & Sokolowski attempt (that somehow netted Soccer a cozy stadium) there is little desire from an Ownership or tax payers perspective to fund $300 million dollars to build one. So what are we Argos fans going to do?? Do we forever just wish and pray that someone's going to build us a new stadium? I think we need to start putting our money where our mouths are end this "Whoa is me" attitde. We need to start an investment fund that begins to have Argos investors (STHs and the corporate community) who are willing to put in some money (on top of STH) so as to prove not only to ownership but to the citizens of Toronto that the Argos fan is not a dying breed. I think the Argos and the CFL in this city can regain some credibility if they see that Argos fans are taking steps to make the situation better. Once Argos fans prove that there's a desire from a grassroots level for an Argos own stadium AND we've got a pile of cash to go with it- I think it will make it a lot easier for Mr. Braley and provincal and federal governments to justify loosening the purse strings to build it!!

[Hollaway]

Agree with all of you, the Skydome/Rogers centre just doesn't do it for football, ok some might say that it's because the Argos don't draw a good crowd, but even when the Bills sell out, it still sounds dead. It is time we get our own stadium, I envy what they have done in Montreal, football is alive and well there again, and it's a different atmosphere there for fans in the smaller stadium compared to when they played at the Olympic stadium, Braley's first love is his BC Lions, I don't think he could give a rats ass about a new stadium for the Argos.

[ArgoGabe22]

Braley's first love is his BC Lions, I don't think he could give a rats ass about a new stadium for the Argos.

I believe his first love was those ever so lovely Tiger Cats.

[argonaut11xx]

, but even when the Bills sell out, it still sounds dead.

Are you nuts?....REALITY CHECK TIME.....

1st off...the "Bills in Toronto" has NEVER sold out..its been a bust...a complete JOKE....

2nd off...sadly,the Argonauts fan base doesnt justify a new stadiium at this point...sad but true....

3rdly....if The Argo's keep building there is a window of opportunity, especially after this season to broaden the fan base, its going to be a challenge, cause honestly most of the newcomers, and ethnic folks, dont get football, especially the CFL.

[paulwoods13]

Molson Stadium is a great venue to watch football, in a beautiful and well-serviced part of the city, and the Alouettes are a perennial GC contender with a legend at QB. And yet they drew only 21,000 the other night -- 4,000 short of capacity. Much as I would love a football-first stadium for the Argos to play in, getting one would not in and of itself mean financial success. There are a lot of elements to revitalizing football in Toronto, and I think it can be achieved at the RC despite its cavernous size and at-times soul-less atmosphere. Rudge is talking about signing a new five-year lease there so we better get used to the fact that it will still be the Argos' home for some time to come.

[Gill The Thrill]

Molson Stadium is a great venue to watch football, in a beautiful and well-serviced part of the city, and the Alouettes are a perennial GC contender with a legend at QB. And yet they drew only 21,000 the other night -- 4,000 short of capacity. Much as I would love a football-first stadium for the Argos to play in, getting one would not in and of itself mean financial success. There are a lot of elements to revitalizing football in Toronto, and I think it can be achieved at the RC despite its cavernous size and at-times soul-less atmosphere. Rudge is talking about signing a new five-year lease there so we better get used to the fact that it will still be the Argos' home for some time to come.

Montreal may have had only 21K on Friday, but that was still more than capacity at Molson Stadium before the upgrade to 25k. 21K+ is still 85% capacity which still provides great atmosphere while 21K at Skydome..(Why would anyone in a private conversation call it by its corporate name) is under 40% capacity.

The sport of football does not need revitalizing in the GTA, but only in downtown Toronto where there are less high school programs than anywhere in the GTA. I can tell you that from anectodal evidence based on demographics that it will not get better exposure in the downtown core but only in the peripheries. The game is strong in York Region, Peel Region, Halton Region and Durham Region where some of the best high school teams are located. Plenty of OVFL programs are also in these regions, while Toronto's rep teams in the OVFL play all their games in the furthest ends of the city nowhere near downtown.

You may tell people to get used to the dome...but my response to that is get ready to see and read more posts on this stadium topic or be prepared to realize that you're dancing on a grave when you watch the Argos and CFL football being played in that dome. There's a saying that if you're not growing or improving then you're dying. I know the Argos situation and relevance is not improving at the dome, so you do the math.

You need to be very cautious with this type of thing. You end up with people who paid good money sitting beside people who got in for free. The former end up feeling like dupes. Papering the house with freebies has been tried many times in Toronto -- IMO it devalues the product.

I wonder how many of those 36,000 kids that were at the pre-season game were at the home-opener. If even 1% of them convinced their parents to take them to the game, then that's 360 new fans. That could have been possible....you got to start somewhere. However, I do agree, it devalues the product, why would I want to pay for a ticket if I know the guy beside did not. I remember feeling like a dupe for just paying $20 to a scalper to watch the international bowl in the first year, only to find out that nobody sitting beside me paid for their tickets.... you can guess who did not go to that US college game the next few years...you guessed it...me. The game was eventually discontinued so that tells you I was not the only person who reacted in that manner if I had to pay to get into the 1st game while others got in free.

[paulwoods13]

The sport of football does not need revitalizing in the GTA, but only in downtown Toronto where there are less high school programs than anywhere in the GTA. I can tell you that from anectodal evidence based on demographics that it will not get better exposure in the downtown core but only in the peripheries. The game is strong in York Region, Peel Region, Halton Region and Durham Region where some of the best high school teams are located. Plenty of OVFL programs are also in these regions, while Toronto's rep teams in the OVFL play all their games in the furthest ends of the city nowhere near downtown.

You may tell people to get used to the dome...but my response to that is get ready to see and read more posts on this stadium topic or be prepared to realize that you're dancing on a grave when you watch the Argos and CFL football being played in that dome. There's a saying that if you're not growing or improving then you're dying. I know the Argos situation and relevance is not improving at the dome, so you do the math.

By "revitalizing football in Toronto" I meant the Argonauts, not the sport being played at the grassroots level. Revitalizing the Argonauts will take a concerted effort to reach all parts of the market, including individuals who live downtown or in the old city of Toronto (which has an expanding population thanks to the explosion of condo development).

If all that's ever written on these boards is how terrible SkyDome is and how desperately the Argos need their own stadium (an idea that remains a pipe dream until hundreds of millions of dollars materialize from somewhere), the suggestion about "dancing on a grave" and "dying" could become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I prefer to make the best of the reality that SkyDome is going to be the Argos' home for the foreseeable future.