Perhaps it is time for a Toronto Argonauts only Stadium.

[1argoholic]

Screw The Jays, Rogers, Leafs, Craptors, TFC etc. The only Argonauts fans are true Argonaut fans. The first friggin game after a VERY long offseason and you draw 20 thou and change. It's obvious that folks hate this stadium and our too lazy to get off the F'ing couch to hit Toronto for a game.
To be honest it was like DEAD MEAT watching this on tv. The crowd noise was ZERO.

Well I guess many got what they wished for with no SH!T music between plays. There was NO sound either. I miss being there to be a drunken ass that I was. At least I made some F@#KING noise.
Sorry Finn I know It's hard going alone.

Time for Braley to show his face. What does his view of the Argonaut future hold? Is he happy with his Lions kicking ass while his Argo play infront of 35 thousand blue seats with a few folks inbetween. How about a new practice facililty. He has said zero since owning the Argos.

[Argocister]

Brought my brother and his wife to the game today. (just moved back from the States)They had a good time but mentioned it looked like the Argos are just here temporarily..... no flags or signs that it is actually an Argos game.... just the Jays. .... Jays on the beer cans and the popcorn bags..... their question was Do the Argos usually play here?
They did have a good time though. The music between plays was held back for the first quarter but then became more prominent after that. The fans did make some noise throughout the game. It was neat how one could manipulate the noise. Whenever they showed some of our troops on the videotron, the cheers would increase. This was great during some of Calgary's offensive plays. At first I thought the person in control of the videotron was doing it on purpose..... but then it happened just before Ricky was about to snap the ball..... We should keep this in our 13th man playbook for future games.

[ArgoRavi]

Time for Braley to show his face. What does his view of the Argonaut future hold? Is he happy with his Lions kicking ass while his Argo play infront of 35 thousand blue seats with a few folks inbetween. How about a new practice facililty. He has said zero since owning the Argos.

Rudge has answered those questions on behalf of Braley recently. A new practice facility is on the horizon and the Argos have put some initiatives in place to increase corporate support and attendance but that won't happen overnight. As for the Lions, they drew 25k last night in the nicest stadium in Canada and one of the nicest in North America with a defending Grey Cup championship team that has lost very little over the last year and that is very exciting. Braley has some issues to deal with in that market as well.

Brought my brother and his wife to the game today. (just moved back from the States)They had a good time but mentioned it looked like the Argos are just here temporarily..... no flags or signs that it is actually an Argos game.... just the Jays. .... Jays on the beer cans and the popcorn bags..... their question was Do the Argos usually play here?

One of my pet peeves for the last twenty-three years is how SkyDome has been looked upon as the "home of the Blue Jays" while the Argos are almost seen as visitors when they play there. The dang stadium wouldn't even exist if it were not for the Argos and what happened in the '82 Grey Cup in Toronto but nobody seems to remember that. It really makes me sick. While it doesn't happen much anymore because MLB and NFL teams seem to have their own stadiums, when those two leagues shared stadiums, those stadiums were seen as being home to BOTH the football and baseball teams (i.e. they were both seen as being primary tenants). I don't understand why it is seen to be different in Toronto and please nobody try to justify it by saying that the Jays play 81 homes games versus the Argos' nine which is why the Jays are primary tenants and the Argos are not. Again, that isn't the case in other markets.

[D-Gap-Willie]

I do not usually take part in conpiracy theories and I do not have a persecution complex -- but the Argos have been subjected to many years of organized attacks against their credibility and their appeal to a potential fan base. Any fan of the Argos in the GTA is now looked upon with scorn and disdain as a result of this ongoing campaign.
Ask around for opinions of the CFL ( and the Argos) -- you will get responses ( sometimes bitter and angry responses) such as bush league, second rate, game for brutes and bullies, etc. - these are responses from the people whose tax dollars would be needed to build an Argos-only stadium.
Hockey is THE game in TO, and the footie fanatics lobby has the ear of the people -- after all it's a " multicultural game " and the beautiful game of the people". That's how BMO Field got built. Canadian football has been pushed out of the schools in TO ( too expensive and brutal) , and the people ( snobs of New York North) are convinced that the game only belongs to the sod busters of the Prairies and the lumberjacks of BC.
Ask a Blue Jays fan why they don't play on a grass field - most will reply "the Argos".
Yes, the stadium is bad but the only fans remaining are truly dedicated CFL/Argo fans. Do you think that 20,000 fans are going to attract the money necessary to build the dream stadium. It is time for both the Argos and Argo fans to start to seriously and creatively popularize the game again -- I see very little of this happening at present, other than the recent documentaries.

[argolio]

I don't understand why it is seen to be different in Toronto and please nobody try to justify it by saying that the Jays play 81 homes games versus the Argos' nine which is why the Jays are primary tenants and the Argos are not.

How I wish that Harry Ornest never sold the Argo rights to being the Dome's prime tenant to the Jays. What a huge mistake that was.

[ArgoRavi]

To address the original post of this thread, Steve Buffery has a relevant column from Sunday's Sun: http://www.torontosun.com/2012/07/07...heric-pressure

[Chuckonauts]

You know Argos fans have been dreaming of a cozy 30k seat stadium for years despite the Cynamon & Sokolowski attempt (that somehow netted Soccer a cozy stadium) there is little desire from an Ownership or tax payers perspective to fund $300 million dollars to build one. So what are we Argos fans going to do?? Do we forever just wish and pray that someone's going to build us a new stadium? I think we need to start putting our money where our mouths are end this "Whoa is me" attitde. We need to start an investment fund that begins to have Argos investors (STHs and the corporate community) who are willing to put in some money (on top of STH) so as to prove not only to ownership but to the citizens of Toronto that the Argos fan is not a dying breed. I think the Argos and the CFL in this city can regain some credibility if they see that Argos fans are taking steps to make the situation better. Once Argos fans prove that there's a desire from a grassroots level for an Argos own stadium AND we've got a pile of cash to go with it- I think it will make it a lot easier for Mr. Braley and provincal and federal governments to justify loosening the purse strings to build it!!

[Hollaway]

Agree with all of you, the Skydome/Rogers centre just doesn't do it for football, ok some might say that it's because the Argos don't draw a good crowd, but even when the Bills sell out, it still sounds dead. It is time we get our own stadium, I envy what they have done in Montreal, football is alive and well there again, and it's a different atmosphere there for fans in the smaller stadium compared to when they played at the Olympic stadium, Braley's first love is his BC Lions, I don't think he could give a rats ass about a new stadium for the Argos.

[paulwoods13]

Molson Stadium is a great venue to watch football, in a beautiful and well-serviced part of the city, and the Alouettes are a perennial GC contender with a legend at QB. And yet they drew only 21,000 the other night -- 4,000 short of capacity. Much as I would love a football-first stadium for the Argos to play in, getting one would not in and of itself mean financial success. There are a lot of elements to revitalizing football in Toronto, and I think it can be achieved at the RC despite its cavernous size and at-times soul-less atmosphere. Rudge is talking about signing a new five-year lease there so we better get used to the fact that it will still be the Argos' home for some time to come.

[ArgoGabe22]

Braley's first love is his BC Lions, I don't think he could give a rats ass about a new stadium for the Argos.

I believe his first love was those ever so lovely Tiger Cats.

[Deerkeeper]

Yesterday was the first Argo game I have attended in a couple of season, sorry to say. I had forgotten just how sad the exterior of the former Skydome is. I mean if it wasn't for thousands of people wandering around outside wearing Argo paraphernalia, you would never have known that it was a football game day or that there was even a football team in that stadium. Blue Jay banners all over the damn place, the Electronic Billboard out side was all Blue Jay. The only non Blue Jay banner was a Bills banner over the - you guessed it - the Blue Jay store. I'm starting to get sick of the GDed Blue Jays. Lets hope any new lease agreement at least allows the Argos to promote themselves on the outside of the Stadium. I want to see a few Ricky Ray and Chad Owens banners up and how about renaming it the Blue Jay & Argonaut Store. Lets get some recognition from these Rogers b**t**ds that there is a team in that place that deserves a little respect.

[Stevoman]

One of my pet peeves for the last twenty-three years is how SkyDome has been looked upon as the "home of the Blue Jays" while the Argos are almost seen as visitors when they play there. The dang stadium wouldn't even exist if it were not for the Argos and what happened in the '82 Grey Cup in Toronto but nobody seems to remember that. It really makes me sick. While it doesn't happen much anymore because MLB and NFL teams seem to have their own stadiums, when those two leagues shared stadiums, those stadiums were seen as being home to BOTH the football and baseball teams (i.e. they were both seen as being primary tenants). I don't understand why it is seen to be different in Toronto and please nobody try to justify it by saying that the Jays play 81 homes games versus the Argos' nine which is why the Jays are primary tenants and the Argos are not. Again, that isn't the case in other markets.

How come they don't have the banners up like they had in 05-2010? At least they provided the stadium with more Argo atmosphere. I'd love a more football friendly stadium.

[Hollaway]

You do make some good points paulwoods13, but for one, it would be a better and more intimate experience for the fans and team alike, 2nd, it would have natural grass instead of the concrete they use now called turf, 3rd, they could use the facility for multi purpose events, though I would be very careful on what would go on, I'm sure they could find other ways to generate more revenue.

Why not supply the media with free tickets, not only would it get the Argos more publicity by media outlets hosting contests and so on to give the tickets away, but it would also put fannies on the seats and perhaps introduce some non cfl/argo fans to the game, so we don't create some revenue at the ticket office, but we would from concessions, instead of having 35 thousand empty seats for the home opener.

[ArgoRavi]

Why not supply the media with free tickets, not only would it get the Argos more publicity by media outlets hosting contests and so on to give the tickets away, but it would also put fannies on the seats and perhaps introduce some non cfl/argo fans to the game, so we don't create some revenue at the ticket office, but we would from concessions, instead of having 35 thousand empty seats for the home opener.

The media already get free tickets in the form of press passes. Perhaps the Argos could provide them with lavish meals like the NFL does which is the type of thing that seduces the likes of Jim Lang.

[Hollaway]

LOL, I just meant to use the media to give away the tickets to fans via contests etc.

[paulwoods13]

LOL, I just meant to use the media to give away the tickets to fans via contests etc.

You need to be very cautious with this type of thing. You end up with people who paid good money sitting beside people who got in for free. The former end up feeling like dupes. Papering the house with freebies has been tried many times in Toronto -- IMO it devalues the product.

You do make some good points paulwoods13, but for one, it would be a better and more intimate experience for the fans and team alike, 2nd, it would have natural grass instead of the concrete they use now called turf, 3rd, they could use the facility for multi purpose events, though I would be very careful on what would go on, I'm sure they could find other ways to generate more revenue.

It's a moot point since there is no proposal to build a football-first stadium, but if it ever were to happen, I would bet a lot of money it would have Field Turf (or an equivalent brand) and not actual grass. Every CFL stadium has turf and it appears that players actually prefer it to grass, not to mention that it is way more durable. Certainly if you planned ted to do anything other than play one football game every two weeks, you would not want to have grass in there.

[Gill The Thrill]

Molson Stadium is a great venue to watch football, in a beautiful and well-serviced part of the city, and the Alouettes are a perennial GC contender with a legend at QB. And yet they drew only 21,000 the other night -- 4,000 short of capacity. Much as I would love a football-first stadium for the Argos to play in, getting one would not in and of itself mean financial success. There are a lot of elements to revitalizing football in Toronto, and I think it can be achieved at the RC despite its cavernous size and at-times soul-less atmosphere. Rudge is talking about signing a new five-year lease there so we better get used to the fact that it will still be the Argos' home for some time to come.

Montreal may have had only 21K on Friday, but that was still more than capacity at Molson Stadium before the upgrade to 25k. 21K+ is still 85% capacity which still provides great atmosphere while 21K at Skydome..(Why would anyone in a private conversation call it by its corporate name) is under 40% capacity.

The sport of football does not need revitalizing in the GTA, but only in downtown Toronto where there are less high school programs than anywhere in the GTA. I can tell you that from anectodal evidence based on demographics that it will not get better exposure in the downtown core but only in the peripheries. The game is strong in York Region, Peel Region, Halton Region and Durham Region where some of the best high school teams are located. Plenty of OVFL programs are also in these regions, while Toronto's rep teams in the OVFL play all their games in the furthest ends of the city nowhere near downtown.

You may tell people to get used to the dome...but my response to that is get ready to see and read more posts on this stadium topic or be prepared to realize that you're dancing on a grave when you watch the Argos and CFL football being played in that dome. There's a saying that if you're not growing or improving then you're dying. I know the Argos situation and relevance is not improving at the dome, so you do the math.

You need to be very cautious with this type of thing. You end up with people who paid good money sitting beside people who got in for free. The former end up feeling like dupes. Papering the house with freebies has been tried many times in Toronto -- IMO it devalues the product.

I wonder how many of those 36,000 kids that were at the pre-season game were at the home-opener. If even 1% of them convinced their parents to take them to the game, then that's 360 new fans. That could have been possible....you got to start somewhere. However, I do agree, it devalues the product, why would I want to pay for a ticket if I know the guy beside did not. I remember feeling like a dupe for just paying $20 to a scalper to watch the international bowl in the first year, only to find out that nobody sitting beside me paid for their tickets.... you can guess who did not go to that US college game the next few years...you guessed it...me. The game was eventually discontinued so that tells you I was not the only person who reacted in that manner if I had to pay to get into the 1st game while others got in free.

[1argoholic]

I know I started this topic and I must say that I actually love the dome. We were all so excited as season ticket holders to move from the CNE to Skydome. Those first few seasons were great. Somehow it all of a sudden became a sh!thole in someones eyes. Then once rogers bought the place for a song and a dance it has become Jay Dome. I don't know about you but if I had a renter such as the Argos I'd toss some marketing at them as it could only help my cause (Rogers) if the joint gets full of Argo fans.
Plus as my wife mentioned yesterday she was floored when she moved to Mississauga in 99 that all Argos games are on local tv. I remember the old days where you'd listen on radio or go to see the game live.
When that dome has 30 to 40 thou it's a fun rocking place to be. It's comfortable and close to all that beautiful downtown TO has to offer. Hopefully Rudge does have a plan to keep marketing and getting folks back down to the dome.
By the way Ravi as far as the Lions are concerned we finally have summer as the switch turned on two nights ago. Up until know we've had CRAP weather with many highs only hitting 14 or 15 with plenty of rain. I think many folks who might have been walkup types said outdoors on patios. I know as a diehard when I had seasons I just never missed.

[ArgoRavi]

By the way Ravi as far as the Lions are concerned we finally have summer as the switch turned on two nights ago. Up until know we've had CRAP weather with many highs only hitting 14 or 15 with plenty of rain. I think many folks who might have been walkup types said outdoors on patios. I know as a diehard when I had seasons I just never missed.

The post-game comments thread on lionbackers.com has turned into a discussion about the early-season attendance woes in B.C. One would think that good weather would have made it more likely that people would have headed to the refurbished B.C. Place with the roof open but that didn't happen. The Lions seem to have miscalculated the effect of the refurbished stadium. Braley was on record a couple of years back as saying that he expected average attendance to be 35k-40k while Dennis Skulsky (Chris Rudge's equivalent in B.C.) expected 40k-45k for the home opener this year and they got fewer than 30k for a big night for Geroy Simon. They are clearly falling far short of their expectations and pricing out the casual fan seems to be one the popular explanations for that on lionbackers.com and in the local media. The Lions can't really do much about that this year but it will be interesting to see if they price their seats differently next year. BTW, the 25k that they drew the other night was the smallest crowd at B.C. Place for a regular season game since 2004.

[1argoholic]

It might be refurbished but it doesn't feel much differently to me. I've never liked BC Place. Plus the colour choice for the seats is horrible. You have to be on acid to like the inside of that dome. It doesn't open up like Rogers Centre. They should have just had an open air stadium but they wanted it for trade shows and the like as well. BCers are used to rain so an outdoor stadium would work here. The fans all loved the temp stadium. It's always something but the CFL tends to slug along.