GAME THREAD / Week 4 / Edmonton @ Toronto

[1971GreyCup]

I share your frustration, have been up against this personally since my youth.
Most definitely this is a US wannabe city, period.
Unless there is an attached US name with league, it will not draw much more than flies like our Argos.
I don't know what or if there is an answer?

I think we should stop blaming the Toronto for the lack of Argos commercial success. We've traveled across the west and demographics are changing there too. New immigrants may now represent 20% of Regina and the surrounding catchment area. Eighty per cent of 500,000 equates to 400,000 people. Our experience is that the Riders create new fans in the new immigrant communities. 50% of the GTA population is at least 4 million people.

I don't think there is any evidence yet that marketing the Argos has improved with the new owners. It's become difficult to find their employees and understand which employees have been let go, or resigned.

Plenty of room for improvement:

1. Part time management. Pretty sure management was in Kansas City last night.
2. Part Time Ticket Sales. Example: after the first game, I was dealing with Mike Hook on a corporate issue. He stopped replying to my emails. I only found out later he was on longer there. Not easy to book a corporate suite, while plenty remain empty.
3. Emails were ported from Argonauts.ca to MLSE.ca not telling employees or not customers.
4. Their social media employee quit the last day of training camp.
5. Game Day Host positions were posted just prior to the season.
6. Mike Hogan finally hired during Week #4. It's Week #5 and still waiting for the Podcast.
7. Argos Focus Group postponed 3 weeks ago as higher priority MLSE issues arose. TBD

In the absence of the ongoing, decades long mismanagement of one of North America's longest running professional team it's unfair to point to the teams customers as letting the franchise down.

Thankfully, Football Ops. remains in very good, experienced hands from coaching, scouting, trainers and equipment managers who are all seasoned professionals.

If the team chooses not to focus and invest in the game day experience, it will continue to come up short on putting fans in the seats. It shouldn't expect otherwise.

[lazycro]

Where did the second in stadium host disappear to this week too?

[OV Argo]

Good solid game to get on the win track. O & D both were good to decent, but nothing special.

Room for improvements for sure, and Franklin should continue to get better with more playing time i believe.

Llevi Noel - a number of us here have wanted to see him play receiver; the 2 games (in 3 seasons) now I've seen him with some actual playing time there, he has made 2 outstanding catches in both games and the 2 yesterday were big gainers. He should be starting at WR - and could play either side of the field, and get deep. And maybe Franklin will throw more deep passes - Green & Edwards may not be blazing speedsters, but they are quality smart & talented receivers who can get open intermediate to deep too. Those 3 mentioned can form part of a good corps; the next progression or change I would like to see is an athletic & big target receiver like Brian Jones be given a shot to play inside(seems the offence has little use for or faith in either of Ralph or Williams - when all of the 5 pack should be good options); and maybe audition a new import receiver at the wide-side WR spot and see if he can be a play-maker; then if Coombs gets healthy, he's another good option.

Defence - still need a better pass rush DE and Tuggle or Davis are not it IMO; not sure about the coverage skills of the secondary either - rather see Vaughn back in the D-backfield along with Q. Ford. And why was Woodson playing D on the opening series and then yanked? - performance based ?

[paulwoods13]

OV, I'm just about positive Woodson was in at CB for one series only because Heath was benched for taking a stupid penalty. The next series Heath was back in at CB.

[Rich]

Long before people made up the story that Marc Trestman doesn't like mobile QBs, people liked to make up a story that Trestman didn't like the running game because his offence was pass pass pass all the time. But even if you knew that story was nonsense, you had to be a little surprised at his commitment to the run in this game. 21 carries for JWJ for 120 yards, and none of it inflated in garbage time like many big rushing totals in the CFL. Pretty damn impressive.

But I was baffled as to why they activated Brandon Burks for this game when they appeared to use him so little. I was thinking they were going to try a 1-2 punch at RB to keep Wilder fresh but it didn't look like it, anybody have any idea how many plays Burks was in for? The Professor is gonna have to throw some new wrinkles into the offence for the second half of the home and home, maybe one or two will involve Burks, otherwise why have him take a valuable roster spot? I wouldn't mind seeing what Declan Cross could do at TB for a few plays.

[mchesher03]

My post-game thoughts:

• Loved seeing Trestman getting fired up over that bogus defensive PI call on Heath. Still of the opinion you should get to keep your challenge IF and only if you’re correct. In essence that ref’s blown call cost Trestman the ability to challenge a future call.
• I thought the offence was ok, getting wilder going sure helps the line out! He looked great
• Think franklin played well too, love some of those throws he made
• On the same note given credit where credit is due, Reilly throws some beautiful balls and is almost always giving his receiver a play on the ball. It’s pretty impressive
• Well a win is a win is a win, this one needed a little luck and good fortune at times –but it happens both ways throughout the year.
• Man I sure hope Pfeffer can figure out the FG kicking because his punting and kick-offs were great!
• I’m in section 125 as well and can’t tell if I’m biased because I find the section pretty noisy but I feel like the noise level at BMO Field is pretty friggin good. In the SkyDome days I was pretty convinced the argos had a fairly quiet crowd but I sure don’t think so anymore.
• This team plays exciting football (which one could argue was borderline on Saturday but an infinite improvement over the opener!), I think they can get to 16-18k a game and it builds from there. Above all Saturday was fun and it was competitive, even if they had lost to be honest.

[paulwoods13]

But I was baffled as to why they activated Brandon Burks for this game when they appeared to use him so little. I was thinking they were going to try a 1-2 punch at RB to keep Wilder fresh but it didn't look like it, anybody have any idea how many plays Burks was in for? The Professor is gonna have to throw some new wrinkles into the offence for the second half of the home and home, maybe one or two will involve Burks, otherwise why have him take a valuable roster spot? I wouldn't mind seeing what Declan Cross could do at TB for a few plays.

It seemed to me that Burks played fewer than 10 snaps, maybe as few as half a dozen. He gave a breather to Wilder on one series (I think in the first half) but it was a short series. I don't think we ever saw him and Wilder in the game at the same time, but Jackson was in at times with one of the other RBs. I mentioned above (or maybe it was on Twitter) that dressing three INT RBs may be too great a luxury -- if we're not going to use two at the same time except on rare occasions (with Jackson as the second), I'd rather dress Smith or another INT receiver. I doubt we'll see Cross at TB -- why would we when he is valuable where he is and we have one of the best TBs in the league?

[paulwoods13]

[*]I’m in section 125 as well and can’t tell if I’m biased because I find the section pretty noisy but I feel like the noise level at BMO Field is pretty friggin good. In the SkyDome days I was pretty convinced the argos had a fairly quiet crowd but I sure don’t think so anymore.

No question, the crowd is loud, even if there are only 12,000 of us. And I was impressed that no one got down on the boys even when we had long stretches of frustrating play on both offence and defence. The crowd is really in the Argos' corner. Now if we could just get people to stop making noise (like banging loudly on a drum in the south end zone) when we have the ball . . .

[AngeloV]

Well, been a while since I have posted here, but here are some answers as I saw things:

OV, I'm just about positive Woodson was in at CB for one series only because Heath was benched for taking a stupid penalty. The next series Heath was back in at CB.

It was on the Argos first kickoff after the Franklin TD that Heath took an OC penalty at the end of the play. He immediately lined up at the corner right beside the Argos bench, when Trestman pulled him, with Woodson who was put in Yell's spot, as Yell was moved to the half. Lots of moving parts there. Heath was sat for most of the first quarter as Woodson played at least the first 3 series, and made a great play fighting through a block on a WR screen, to hit the receiver for a loss. As we all know, I have never been a fan of Heath. I also think that other teams now know how he cheats and are taking advantage of him. He hasn't had an pick since week 5 of last season. I think the Argos need to replace him and Yell when Q Ford returns, and I would love to see Woodson start. Kanneh plays a physical game for a guy with not much size, so to me, he's a keeper.

But I was baffled as to why they activated Brandon Burks for this game when they appeared to use him so little.

My guess here is that the only reason Burks was inserted into the line-up was to replace Noel as the 2nd KO returner. With Noel starting and still being on punt coverage team, he needed a breather on some ST's. Myself, I would have preferred to put in an extra DB like Jonathan Dowling, but they won, so no complaints here.

[Rich]

I doubt we'll see Cross at TB -- why would we when he is valuable where he is and we have one of the best TBs in the league?

Well if they want to spell Wilder for 5 or 6 plays I'm thinking they'd be better off using someone already on the active roster instead of using up a valuable IMP spot to do it.

[paulwoods13]

Well if they want to spell Wilder for 5 or 6 plays I'm thinking they'd be better off using someone already on the active roster instead of using up a valuable IMP spot to do it.

Right, but they can insert Jackson for such a scenario.

[Rich]

Right, but they can insert Jackson for such a scenario.

True, but Martese is a different kind of back and they play a different package with him in the backfield, whereas Cross has a better body type to run the Wilder plays.

[paulwoods13]

Was Cross ever a tailback in college? If not, I think it's a stretch to think he could adapt easily to that position. And for the record, I love Cross as a player.

[gilthethrill]

Was Cross ever a tailback in college? If not, I think it's a stretch to think he could adapt easily to that position. And for the record, I love Cross as a player.

I think Cross had 4 carries in his college football career.

[cfl-cis fan]

I think Cross had 4 carries in his college football career.

Cross was an H-Back in college and had more than 4 carries. Think these uni/cis stats are not up to date,,,,,,,,,, will try and find his stats.

[cfl-cis fan]

Cross was an H-Back in college and had more than 4 carries. Think these uni/cis stats are not up to date,,,,,,,,,, will try and find his stats.

OUA and U-Sport stats are not complete. McMaster website shows over 3.5 season 34 carries 228 yards, 47 receptions for 469 yards as a blocking H-Back.

[Argo57]

Well, been a while since I have posted here, but here are some answers as I saw things:



It was on the Argos first kickoff after the Franklin TD that Heath took an OC penalty at the end of the play. He immediately lined up at the corner right beside the Argos bench, when Trestman pulled him, with Woodson who was put in Yell's spot, as Yell was moved to the half. Lots of moving parts there. Heath was sat for most of the first quarter as Woodson played at least the first 3 series, and made a great play fighting through a block on a WR screen, to hit the receiver for a loss. As we all know, I have never been a fan of Heath. I also think that other teams now know how he cheats and are taking advantage of him. He hasn't had an pick since week 5 of last season. I think the Argos need to replace him and Yell when Q Ford returns, and I would love to see Woodson start. Kanneh plays a physical game for a guy with not much size, so to me, he's a keeper.



My guess here is that the only reason Burks was inserted into the line-up was to replace Noel as the 2nd KO returner. With Noel starting and still being on punt coverage team, he needed a breather on some ST's. Myself, I would have preferred to put in an extra DB like Jonathan Dowling, but they won, so no complaints here.

Welcome back Angelo!
Would like to see Trumaine Washington and or Dowling get a chance in the Argos secondary, both showed a nose for the ball in preseason.
Argonauts sure miss Rico Murray IMO, if I were Popp I’d also place a call to Owusu Ansah’s agent to explore his possible return.
Heath and Yell haven’t impressed so far at all, secondary is this teams biggest concern.

[jerrym]

Welcome back Angelo!
Would like to see Trumaine Washington and or Dowling get a chance in the Argos secondary, both showed a nose for the ball in preseason.
Argonauts sure miss Rico Murray IMO, if I were Popp I’d also place a call to Owusu Ansah’s agent to explore his possible return.
Heath and Yell haven’t impressed so far at all, secondary is this teams biggest concern.

I second that on playing Washington.

[OV Argo]

Cross was an H-Back in college and had more than 4 carries. Think these uni/cis stats are not up to date,,,,,,,,,, will try and find his stats.

Cross did not play exclusively at H-back for Mac' he lined-up as a RB in a twin backfield some and got some carries; he may not be a true tailback, but IMO he is capable and could do some damage with some carries - wether out of fullback or lining-up at tailback a bit - he's a big load.

[Rich]

The point I was trying to make was that we should have a back who can fill in for Wilder every now and then. That means a back who can run Wilder's plays, mostly inside runs and pass blocking. Martese can't do those things, but Burks is a bigger guy and he definitely can. Except they hardly used him at all, so I was wondering out loud if there was anyone else who could fill the bill. I know Coombs can but he's not here, sadly.