Game Thread - September 28, 2018 - Argos @ Stampeders

[R.J]

This weeks game thread isn't up yet. From Frank Zicarelli’s article today.

Five losses in a row, zero touchdown passes thrown in back-to-back weeks, an alarming inability to score points in the fourth quarter and head coach Marc Trestman has decided to stick with McLeod Bethel-Thompson. “No change,’’ said Trestman about the Argos’ starter.
When asked why, Trestman offered the following: “I don’t see any reason not to.”

I know I shouldn’t be surprised, as I assumed Trestman will play MBT until we’re officially eliminated from the playoffs. But this has become embarrassing and infuriating! We’re not winning and Trestman’s just trying the same thing week in and week out.

This explains why I’m more interested in watching the other games this weekend more than the Argo game.

No one should be surprised with Trestman sticking with Bethel Thompson. I still find it hilarious that Trestman called it an open competition.

[paulwoods13]

No one should be surprised with Trestman sticking with Bethel Thompson. I still find it hilarious that Trestman called it an open competition.

So the fix was in from the beginning, but Trestman had to start Franklin for four games to disguise this?

[AngeloV]

I have to admit, even I am frustrated with the decision to start MBT again. As I have been saying for the last few weeks, although he unquestionably has been our best starter this season, you have to go back to Franklin, knowing you have a competent back up in MBT. Trestman definitely does seem to have more success with older QB's going back to his days with the Oakland Raiders and Rich Gannon. He may just not work well with young guys, I don't know.

[R.J]

So the fix was in from the beginning, but Trestman had to start Franklin for four games to disguise this?

Not sure why I have to bring this up again, but here goes: Do you honestly think when Franklin agreed to a 2 year contract with Toronto that he wasn't given certain assurances ?

I have to admit, even I am frustrated with the decision to start MBT again. As I have been saying for the last few weeks, although he unquestionably has been our best starter this season, you have to go back to Franklin, knowing you have a competent back up in MBT. Trestman definitely does seem to have more success with older QB's going back to his days with the Oakland Raiders and Rich Gannon. He may just not work well with young guys, I don't know.

One of the knocks I've had on Trestman since day one: He's never developed a young QB, and has a clear bias. The Montreal situation post Calvillo is as much on Trestman as it is Popp IMO.

[paulwoods13]

Not sure why I have to bring this up again, but here goes: Do you honestly think when Franklin agreed to a 2 year contract with Toronto that he wasn't given certain assurances ?

I have no idea (nor do you, of course), but the idea that it was an open competition is IMO far more plausible than the idea that Trestman never wanted him to play yet had to start him four times. If he didn't want JF to play, why four games? Are you suggesting he was assured he'd get at least four starts if Ricky was injured, regardless of how he played? Because such a promise would defy credulity.

[R.J]

I have no idea (nor do you, of course), but the idea that it was an open competition is IMO far more plausible than the idea that Trestman never wanted him to play yet had to start him four times. If he didn't want JF to play, why four games? Are you suggesting he was assured he'd get at least four starts if Ricky was injured, regardless of how he played? Because such a promise would defy credulity.

Odd that you think the 4 game "limit" was the assurance, and not the notion of Franklin getting first crack at the starting spot.

[Argo57]

Odd that you imply the 4 game limit was the assurance.

Conspiracy theories run amuck RJ, Trestman started the QB who he thought would give the team the best chance to win.
You can argue with the decision to go with MBT over Franklin but to suggest the fix was in is ludicrous.

[R.J]

Conspiracy theories run amuck RJ, Trestman started the QB who he thought would give the team the best chance to win.
You can argue with the decision to go with MBT over Franklin but to suggest the fix was in is ludicrous.

More than a little naive to think that Popp didn't sell the Argonauts experience and the chance to start with Franklin, and that Trestman hasn't been behind Thompson since last season...

[Argo57]

More than a little naive to think that Popp didn't sell the Argonauts experience and the chance to start with Franklin, and that Trestman hasn't been behind Thompson since last season...

I’m sure a Popp did sell him on the chance to start and he was in fact given that chance and started to struggle.
As I stated we can debate Trestman’s decision in regards to who he started at QB but Trestman is obligated to start the player who he feels will give the team the best chance to win, this is not naive but common sense .

[AngeloV]

My opinion right now is that Trestman doesn't do well with young QB's. His major successes have come with a nearly 40 year old Rich Gannon in Oakland, a nearly 40 year old Ricky Ray here, and a more than 10 year vet in Montreal in Calvillo.

I like Trestman a lot, especially as a person, but at this moment, if I have to choose between him and Franklin, I'm choosing JF. As I said before, it would not surprise me to see Trestman not return in 2019. He won't be fired, but I can see a mutual parting of the ways.

[gilthethrill]

Not sure of the reasoning behind MBT starting Saturday ...perhaps that TD drive at the end of the Calgary game bought him another start. 🤔

[Argo57]

My opinion right now is that Trestman doesn't do well with young QB's. His major successes have come with a nearly 40 year old Rich Gannon in Oakland, a nearly 40 year old Ricky Ray here, and a more than 10 year vet in Montreal in Calvillo.

I like Trestman a lot, especially as a person, but at this moment, if I have to choose between him and Franklin, I'm choosing JF. As I said before, it would not surprise me to see Trestman not return in 2019. He won't be fired, but I can see a mutual parting of the ways.

.

The scenario you have presented is quite possible Angelo unless Popp is able to trade for or sign a veteran QB via free agency.
They need to get another look at Franklin under regular season conditions before the season is over.
These are uncharted waters for Trestman.

[Argo57]

Not sure of the reasoning behind MBT starting Saturday ...perhaps that TD drive at the end of the Calgary game bought him another start. 🤔

Unless Trestman figures they are still mathematically alive so he should still start MBT.
Personally I think they need to get Franklin back in their asap to properly assess his future as a starting CFL QB.

[Argo]

if I have to choose between him and Franklin, I'm choosing JF.

Yes.

As I said before, it would not surprise me to see Trestman not return in 2019. He won't be fired, but I can see a mutual parting of the ways.

Not a bad result.

[R.J]

I’m sure a Popp did sell him on the chance to start and he was in fact given that chance and started to struggle.
As I stated we can debate Trestman’s decision in regards to who he started at QB but Trestman is obligated to start the player who he feels will give the team the best chance to win, this is not naive but common sense .

Does Trestman believe that Thompson gives the team the best chance to win or does Trestman think that Thompson fits his system and his way of doing things better ?
Those two things aren't necessarily the same.

[RB957]

Does Trestman believe that Thompson gives the team the best chance to win or does Trestman think that Thompson fits his system and his way of doing things better ?
Those two things aren't necessarily the same.

Bang on.

[argolio]

More than a little naive to think that Popp didn't sell the Argonauts experience and the chance to start with Franklin, and that Trestman hasn't been behind Thompson since last season...

Not buying that at all. MBT was a #3-4 QB last season, and earned it based on his camp. He was a #2-3 to start this season, and earned it. I think he was actually better than Franklin in camp. If Trestman was behind MBT since last season, there's no way he would have gone with Franklin after Ray got hurt.

[ArgoRavi]

I think that the reason why Trestman is staying with MBT is that MBT hasn't turned over the ball like Franklin did. One can argue whether he should go back to Franklin at this point or not but I think it is clear that Trestman trusts MBT more at this time.

[gilthethrill]

I think that the reason why Trestman is staying with MBT is that MBT hasn't turned over the ball like Franklin did. One can argue whether he should go back to Franklin at this point or not but I think it is clear that Trestman trusts MBT more at this time.

Hard to turn the ball over when the offence tends to either go 2 and out or gains small amounts of real estate on short passes. Trestman has lost all credibility with me....and that is something I thought I'd never feel.

[Argo57]

Does Trestman believe that Thompson gives the team the best chance to win or does Trestman think that Thompson fits his system and his way of doing things better ?
Those two things aren't necessarily the same.

Who said they are the same?
I’d say both of your scenarios are at play here and if Trestman is proven incorrect (which a 3-10 record would suggest) then his job could in fact be in jeopardy.
I’ve been advocating getting Franklin back in the lineup for some time now, the window is closing to get a good look at Franklin this season which is inexcusable IMO.