Argos at BMO Field

[Mulder]

At least the 25,000 seats are on the sidelines, which is comparable to many other CFL stadiums.

This is more sideline seats than the Rogers Centre currently has in the lower 2 bowls!

[rdavies]

So now it's only 25,000 seats for the Argonauts. That's 5000 seats to small in my opinion.

It's right sized. It was never going to be 30K, 27-28K at the most was all I ever saw.

Only eight of the last 24 seasons justify being larger. If they can sell out every game that is good news and a good stable situation to be in and then they can plan for something larger. Empty seats aren't what they need right now.

[BATKINSON001]

What I gather from the cfl field pic, the end zone seats will fold in to the wall or a large container like high school gymnasium bleachers. How else could they do this?

[T-Bone]

What I gather from the cfl field pic, the end zone seats will fold in to the wall or a large container like high school gymnasium bleachers. How else could they do this?

That's what it looks like from the design drawings. They mentioned at the meeting that one of the conditions for the Exhibition board is that the footprint of the stadium doesn't drastically change. These drawings are also very early concept drawings and nowhere near finalized yet.

[BATKINSON001]

That's what it looks like from the design drawings. They mentioned at the meeting that one of the conditions for the Exhibition board is that the footprint of the stadium doesn't drastically change. These drawings are also very early concept drawings and nowhere near finalized yet.

the drawings had better be much further along then that consider g the timetable they have set themselves.

[T-Bone]

the drawings had better be much further along then that consider g the timetable they have set themselves.

MLSE hasn't formally submitted the plan to the city yet. They mentioned that they are meeting with a design team daily so I wouldn't be surprised if they have more detailed plans but only showed us the concept plans.

[Mulder]

That's what it looks like from the design drawings. They mentioned at the meeting that one of the conditions for the Exhibition board is that the footprint of the stadium doesn't drastically change. These drawings are also very early concept drawings and nowhere near finalized yet.

Those are not design drawings. I produce design drawings. Those are very crude architectural renderings. (they may even have been done in sketchup)

Given the timeframe between when this meeting was announced & when it happened, I could have produced something that was way more visually pleasing in 3D with a video.

[matthew]

Thanks for posting the pics rdavies! Frankly I find the stadium a bit underwhelming. It's basically the same except for an upper deck added to the east grandstand and the endzone seating removed for the Argos. Hopefully the concourse and amenities will be upgraded also.

At least the 25,000 seats are on the sidelines, which is comparable to many other CFL stadiums.

I would have preferred a higher-end stadium experience for the Toronto fans, kind-of a Camden Yards of the CFL, intimate but classy. The $120-million Tim Hortons Field seems a fair bit classier than BMO will be. Hamilton's stadium will have the widest seats in the league, large concourses with state-of-the-art services and HDTV, as well as Ticat offices, stores and training facilities, ect.

The proposed BMO roof seems to start about 5 yards into the endzone. I hope it wouldn't interfere with the ball in flight? I also wonder where they will put the soccer endzone grandstands? There doesn't seem enough room to "retract" them and still be inside the property boundaries?

Its like playing out of a open cardboard box. But beggars can't be choosers!

[Fumblitis]

Great pics but 27000 would be nice. At 25000, are the Argos gonna be profitable? Are they gonna get royalties from beer and concessions?

[T-Bone]

Are they gonna get royalties from beer and concessions?

Since it looks like the the Argos won't be at BMO Field until 2016 at the earliest, I don't think those kinds of details are anywhere close to being worked out yet.

[Neely2005]

It's right sized. It was never going to be 30K, 27-28K at the most was all I ever saw.

Only eight of the last 24 seasons justify being larger. If they can sell out every game that is good news and a good stable situation to be in and then they can plan for something larger. Empty seats aren't what they need right now.

It would have been to small 3 times last season.

Here's last season's attendance for games at Rogers Centre:

29,852
18,211
20,064
19,656
21,157
18,863
28,467
18,478
22,589
35,418 (Playoff Game)

Average attendance: 23,276
Average regular season attendance: 21,926

And last season had one of the worst home schedules ever.

[paulwoods13]

Folks, we are being handed a gift horse on a silver platter (to mix metaphors). A stadium where we will have some control over dates, with plenty of parking (opening the possibility of tailgating), with what will certainly be a better atmosphere than 98% of games at SkyDome, and with the game to be played as it should be, in the elements, but stands to be covered so we don't get wet if it rains. And probably a new owner that has buckets of experiencing turning huge profits from its sports teams and other ventures, with all kinds of marketing synergies available. This has the potential to finally end a three-decade slide of the franchise towards slow oblivion in this market, and make it a viable business for years to come. And we are complaining about the absence of a few thousand seats that have seldom been filled in the past three decades, bemoaning the certain price increases and calling what looks like a nicely cosy stadium a cardboard box? Come on, people -- this is the our salvation (or the closest we will ever get to salvation) and should be warmly embraced for the lifeline that it is.

[rdavies]

Great pics but 27000 would be nice. At 25000, are the Argos gonna be profitable? Are they gonna get royalties from beer and concessions?

Profitable in the Toronto area is a tough one to call. The cost of doing business in Toronto is higher than most places. I'll have to look but there is a good article discussing the costs to TFC which include union wages in running the facility etc. Here is a good article from 2011 talking about Hamilton's expenses and revenues.

In the olden days, 24k was seen as a break even point in the CFL. Montreal was profitable at 20k, but they had lots of good sponsorships. With today's better sponsorships and the new TV contract most teams should be profitable at 22k, Toronto might be a different story but being owned by MLSE might change that.

Two years ago, before the new TV contract, when musing about buying the Argos, MLSE figured they could make one million a year profit on the Argos. At that time that wasn't enough for the greedy bast...err.. community minded fellows.

[Neely2005]

Folks, we are being handed a gift horse on a silver platter (to mix metaphors). A stadium where we will have some control over dates, with plenty of parking (opening the possibility of tailgating), with what will certainly be a better atmosphere than 98% of games at SkyDome, and with the game to be played as it should be, in the elements, but stands to be covered so we don't get wet if it rains. And probably a new owner that has buckets of experiencing turning huge profits from its sports teams and other ventures, with all kinds of marketing synergies available. This has the potential to finally end a three-decade slide of the franchise towards slow oblivion in this market, and make it a viable business for years to come. And we are complaining about the absence of a few thousand seats that have seldom been filled in the past three decades, bemoaning the certain price increases and calling what looks like a nicely cosy stadium a cardboard box? Come on, people -- this is the our salvation (or the closest we will ever get to salvation) and should be warmly embraced for the lifeline that it is.

Plenty of parking? Not sure that I agree with that. Especially when the CNE is on.

Also very few restaurants within a short walking distance.

Also very poor TTC access And no subway access.

This location is only good if you have easy access to the Lakeshore GO Line.

[T-Bone]

Plenty of parking? Not sure that I agree with that. Especially when the CNE is on.

Also very few restaurants within a short walking distance.

Parking is an issue and was brought up at the meeting yesterday but Liberty Village has several restaurants that are within a short walking distance of BMO Field.

[rdavies]

Come on, people -- this is the our salvation (or the closest we will ever get to salvation) and should be warmly embraced for the lifeline that it is.

It really is the only solution however unpalatable some of it may be. I would be more inclined to worry if BCE (TSN) didn't have as large a stake in MLSE as they do.

All in all it's a positive short term step and hopefully Rogers will wise up and realize their vast profits come from the Canadian people and it's time to return something to the well and stop chasing 1980s American dreams.

[Neely2005]

Parking is an issue and was brought up at the meeting yesterday but Liberty Village has several restaurants that are within a short walking distance of BMO Field.

I'm pretty sure that most of those restaurants are a 15+ minute walk. Not sure that I'd call that a short walk.

[T-Bone]

I'm pretty sure that most of those restaurants are a 15+ minute walk. Not sure that I'd call that a short walk.

I guess I'm just used to it.

[gilthethrill]

I am anxious for the official word. A new stadium with a new practice facility. Something that not long ago seemed impossible is so close to becoming reality. The Argos have a real chance of flourishing instead of just surviving season after season.

[bluto]

not ideal, but it ticks most of the boxes.

would i prefer a capacity closer to 30k? yup. am i going to miss my endzone seats (Madden football taught me to watch football that way way back on my Commodore 64)? yup. do i think this is the best location or design? nope.

but holy heck... how could i complain when my team which has been wandering the wilderness and at the mercy of malevolent forces while being mocked by the local sports intelligensia will now have its own home and be owned by the brightest light in our nation's sports firmament?

Braley has been a game changer. his looking around the city for stadium locations gambit is what made this a reality. if we had an owner with less stroke than him, then MLSE would have been less likely to take it seriously and probably would have written that off to just another chapter in the Argonauts long story of all-talk-no-action development. and recall, in November Braley had intimated that there would be an announcement within 6 months.

likewise, the recent years of the CFL under Cohon and TSN has grown the revenues to the point where owning the Argos is a viable concern (perhaps even an attractive one).

happy this has finally been released for the public.

local NIMBYs are worried about foot traffic and noise? i'd be more inclined to take that seriously if they didn't live next to the CNE...

worried about parking? okay, from mid-August to Labour Day when the Ex is going, i'll take the GO. heck... the Argos being down there may be the only reason why i'd ever go to the Ex at all.


a rambling post... but i've lots of thoughts about varying aspects of this move and what it will mean for us.