TJ Heath traded for Drew Willy

[Wobbler]

I think part of the reason the Willy trade looks so bad is that every other trade in recent memory worked in our favour.

[AngeloV]

This one’s water under the bridge guys. I’d rather look at the 2 recent thefts that the Argos have done:

• Shawn Lemon for Mitchell gale, matt sewell and a conditional pick
• S.J. Green for a 6^th rounder

My friends, these are fleecings. Basically very little for two of our better players.

My point exactly. I really think trading an occasional draft pick and a roster player can mean nothing in the CFL, even if those players turn out to be good. I still don't think Heath is as great as many on here do. He gets his picks by reading the QB in zone coverage really well, but not that great in man on man coverage. Argos have drafted well, and also acquired some good Canadian talent for the most part. The overreaction to the trade IMO was priceless.

[doubleblue]

My point exactly. I really think trading an occasional draft pick and a roster player can mean nothing in the CFL, even if those players turn out to be good. I still don't think Heath is as great as many on here do. He gets his picks by reading the QB in zone coverage really well, but not that great in man on man coverage. Argos have drafted well, and also acquired some good Canadian talent for the most part. The overreaction to the trade IMO was priceless.

I'm glad you added "for the most part" there AV. Sewell was a bust but helped bring Lemon who Chris Jones didn't want. Barker picked Brian Jones last year against my better judgement, lol, when Lauzen-Sequin was rated #6 (right where the Argos picked) and how has that turned out. Sankey looks like another wash out but Barker got lucky picking Campbell and Noel 3rd and 4th.
Popp carried on the tradition this year taking Woods and Foster who I think the jury is going to out on for quite a while. Better players were available. Got lucky in the later rounds with Woodson and Onyeka still being there. IMO that was mainly because there is more depth in the drafts now. Your top two picks should be rated as sure fire starters IMO and scouted well enough to know what your're getting.

[paulwoods13]

Barker picked Brian Jones last year against my better judgement, lol, when Lauzen-Sequin was rated #6 (right where the Argos picked) and how has that turned out. Sankey looks like another wash out but Barker got lucky picking Campbell and Noel 3rd and 4th.

Why are people so quick to declare guys washouts? Jones was hurt half of last season, and missed some if not all of camp this year with an injury. It's no surprise he's not yet a force. Sackey has not developed into a roster player yet, but giving up on him so soon would be a big risk. Lots of players, especially o-linemen, take time to develop. Jeff Keeping and Jude St. John come to mind.

[ArgoGabe22]

Popp carried on the tradition this year taking Woods and Foster who I think the jury is going to out on for quite a while. Better players were available.

I thought the Argos did well getting Woods where they did. Not sure there was a definite better player available. And I don't think anyone should expect a rookie lineman to start right away.

[Jon Gonzo]

Barker made some very solid moves in his career as GM of the Argonauts. The Shawn Lemon trade being one of them. But as for the trades listed, they were made by two different GM's. I don't expect the manager of any team I follow to win every deal, but I DO NOT want them throwing potential future 10-12 year players out on a guy that is an average QB in a panic type of transaction. The CFL Draft is how we obtain the lifeblood talent in this league. Like any draft, they all do not work out, but a laissez fair attitude towards that process will indeed ruin your career as a manager. As it should.

[Jon Gonzo]

I am very pleased with this team, and very happy to have a Dee with teeth again.

[Jon Gonzo]

Agreed, things change quickly in this league; however, we had a GM who wasn't bringing guys in who were game changers. They finally find one in Heath, and they flip him. How did that work out? That was the worst D in the league and Barker is responsible for that. The problems go back 2-3 seasons. So things were not changing, only getting worse. Heath is a good player, and yes, you can find DB's but clearly Barker was not finding them. The season fell apart. That's a season. That's impact. $, attendance, gate, grey cup, and jobs lost. The implications were large.

[Argo57]

This one’s water under the bridge guys. I’d rather look at the 2 recent thefts that the Argos have done:

• Shawn Lemon for Mitchell gale, matt sewell and a conditional pick
• S.J. Green for a 6^th rounder

My friends, these are fleecings. Basically very little for two of our better players.

Factor in signing CFL vets like Bear Woods, Marcus Ball, Rico Murray and Cassius Vaughan without having to give anything in return and I'd say things have worked out!

[AngeloV]

Factor in signing CFL vets like Bear Woods, Marcus Ball, Rico Murray and Cassius Vaughan without having to give anything in return and I'd say things have worked out!

And teams do this every year. That's why the outrage in the off season drove me nuts.

[Jon Gonzo]

All teams do? Well, Barker was bringing in players; just not the good kind, sure. lol

[doubleblue]

And teams do this every year. That's why the outrage in the off season drove me nuts.

I believe much of the outrage was the thought of having Drew Willy as the starting QB for this year.

[AngeloV]

I believe much of the outrage was the thought of having Drew Willy as the starting QB for this year.

There was a lot of outrage over cutting the 3 head cases too.

[doubleblue]

There was a lot of outrage over cutting the 3 head cases too.

I prefer to call it passionate.

[Jon Gonzo]

I prefer to call it passionate.

Yes, haha, me too. I think it is perfectly placed, and to be expected, on any fan board. The real fans, as we here are. It can be debated of course, but I can't see anyone was wrong when the Argos cut 3 of their leading receivers and traded what they did for Drew Willy. That was a real WTF couple of weeks. Clearly the coach was losing the room. I mean I hated the ball spinning too, and I am very happy we have moved on with some better men in there, but we were waving the white flag! I would have tried cutting one of them first to see if that message would have worked. They handled it in a way that did not work. I heard Willy was going to get cut anyway. They should have stuck with Danny Fever and signed Willy when he was cut.

I am just happy we are all past that and we lucked out with a couple of great football men; good men, who have already delivered a fun to watch, competitive, hard hitting football team.

Personally, I don't get how anyone could find any of that surprising, but everyone is entitled, of course. It takes all kinds.

[Jon Gonzo]

From the Winnipeg Sun;

T.J. Heath has now played the equivalent of one full season in the CFL and he has an impressive 10 interceptions.
To put that into perspective, no CFL player has had more than nine picks in a single season since Ryan Phillips of the B.C. Lions recorded 12 in 2007.

[R.J]

There was a lot of outrage over cutting the 3 head cases too.

IIRC most of the outrage was due to the timing of the releases and lack of replacements. Add in, having traded for Willy a couple of weeks before hand and the constant losing, it made everything worse.

[Neely2005]

My point exactly. I really think trading an occasional draft pick and a roster player can mean nothing in the CFL, even if those players turn out to be good. I still don't think Heath is as great as many on here do. He gets his picks by reading the QB in zone coverage really well, but not that great in man on man coverage. Argos have drafted well, and also acquired some good Canadian talent for the most part. The overreaction to the trade IMO was priceless.

There was no overreaction. There was appropriate reaction to an unnecessary, desperation, overpayment for a washed up player in a trade that completely destroyed the locker room.

[argos1873]

OK, all kidding aside, it's obvious that the Argos lost this trade. But the way this league works, with all the comings and goings, it's something that in the end might not matter. I think the Argos D has looked pretty damn good at this point, so I fail to see the impact that losing Heath really has. As for the draft picks, let's wait and see if the Argos are in worse shape as far as non import go before we call the trade a disaster. Bad trade, yes. Negative impact as a result? I really doubt it.

I think the reason the trade has been so lambasted was the timing of the deal. I think, coming off a win from a 3rd string QB who played excellent, and Heath who was basically player of the game, then trading for a QB, who I actually believe has upside but his confidence is shot, and then trading Heath, did something awful to the team's psyche. We can argue that what I just said is a bunch of nonsense, but the result was, the team lost the rest of their games. You can argue that no one would know that could happen, and that's true. But it did happen, and the people were right. It was a bad deal just based upon the personnel, but it was a horrible deal based upon the timing.

That being said, I don't really think it will or has hindered the Argos going forward, but it did in my opinion, prevent them for at least making the playoffs, which was very makeable last year in the East. I highly doubt that team would have made it to the Grey Cup, let alone win, but you never know.

[ArgoGabe22]

That being said, I don't really think it will or has hindered the Argos going forward

This is exactly what was debated over the months, rather the actual trade itself IMO. Everyone knows it was a bad trade, especially when looking at the pieces involved. 2 picks (top pick) and Heath does not equal Willy, but it was the thought that the team took a step back and that they were perhaps "doomed" is what got tiresome for some, myself included.