Argos want what TFC has - and vice versa

[DoubleBlue_Red]

Isn't the argument that a lot of people don't watch the CFL because it's Only Canadian teams?

My point is that if the Argos are playing Edmonton for example, the TV numbers are increased because there is viewership in the Edmonton market and across the country. This contributes to the healthy TV numbers.

[Neely2005]

My point is that if the Argos are playing Edmonton for example, the TV numbers are increased because there is viewership in the Edmonton market and across the country. This contributes to the healthy TV numbers.

No different than when the Impact, Whitecaps or TFC play each other. The ratings are still much lower than the Argonauts when that happens.

[DoubleBlue_Red]

No different than when the Impact, Whitecaps or TFC play each other. The ratings are still much lower than the Argonauts when that happens.

No question. But, I would guess that Argos vs Als would have lower TV figures than Argos vs Sask. Although I guess other CFL markets have a vested interest in all CFL games.

[ArgoZ]

No question. But, I would guess that Argos vs Als would have lower TV figures than Argos vs Sask. Although I guess other CFL markets have a vested interest in all CFL games.

I've always hated when people claim the Argos numbers are inflated by Western Canada. It's not true. When the Argos play any East team, they produce the same good viewership. The whole province of Saskatchewan, for example, is not tuning into a Toronto/Montreal matchup.

[ArgoRavi]

My point is that if the Argos are playing Edmonton for example, the TV numbers are increased because there is viewership in the Edmonton market and across the country. This contributes to the healthy TV numbers.

Importantly, Simmons wrote this: "In Southern Ontario alone, the Argos have 60% more viewers than TFC."

The opponent does not matter. The Argos draw far more viewers for their games in Southern Ontario alone than TFC does.

[Neely2005]

Importantly, Simmons wrote this: "In Southern Ontario alone, the Argos have 60% more viewers than TFC."

The opponent does not matter. The Argos draw far more viewers for their games in Southern Ontario alone than TFC does.

It seems like most TFC fans go to the games and there aren't many other TFC fans left to watch on TV.

[Joe Barnes]

It seems like most TFC fans go to the games and there aren't many other TFC fans left to watch on TV.

But because the stadium is full, it creates the perception that TFC has more fans, is more successful, and is the place to be for the casual fans. I have friends who are casual sports fans, and who follow the hot team. Otherwise they don't pay attention to any team in particular. Last year it was the Jays - several of them hadn't been to a game in years. But the dome was the place to be, so they followed the team and went. This year a couple of these people went to TFC games (posting pics of themselves on Facebook, for G's sake!); it's the place to be. TFC is even popping up in conversation, and when I mention the CFL, I get blank stares. But this is only a perception issue, as the numbers Simmons cites reflects. As I said, if even some of the Argo fans who watched from home came down to a game, the very act of filling the stadium creates that positive perception for the Argos, which is what the casual fan picks up on, and drives their desire to follow the team. The hardcore fan will always be there (at this point 13,000 to 15,000), but the casual fan puts a team over the top financially, by attending a game, or two, a season. Right now it seems like the vast number of hardcore members of 'Argo Nation' stay home to watch, to the detriment of the team's reputation.

Long term, the Argos need to cultivate new, younger fans, as they are doing with tailgates, their targeting of elementary aged kids, and the in-game presentation (as in hip hop and techno, over AC/DC!) but the best advertising is a full stadium. The Argos have enough fans out there to do it now. In another thread, someone posted that 40,000 attended a game just 10 years ago. Where are these people, and why don't they come back?

[BATKINSON001]

In another thread, someone posted that 40,000 attended a game just 10 years ago. Where are these people, and why don't they come back?

Argos lost ALOT of fans with the eviction from Rogers Centre. BMO is not as easy to get to as it was and so people don't go.

[Joe Barnes]

Argos lost ALOT of fans with the eviction from Rogers Centre. BMO is not as easy to get to as it was and so people don't go.

I absolutely agree, BMO isn't easy to get to. But that doesn't stop the TFC fans. The Dome is more convenient to get to (via public transit, at least), but was a terrible venue for football, while BMO may well have the best sight lines of any stadium I've ever been to - so the trip is worth it. Plus, many of the old(er) guard will have trucked down to Exhibition Stadium, back in the day, so why not BMO now?

[BATKINSON001]

I absolutely agree, BMO isn't easy to get to. But that doesn't stop the TFC fans. The Dome is more convenient to get to (via public transit, at least), but was a terrible venue for football, while BMO may well have the best sight lines of any stadium I've ever been to - so the trip is worth it. Plus, many of the old(er) guard will have trucked down to Exhibition Stadium, back in the day, so why not BMO now?

. The old guard as most fans from back then probably have moved out of the gta and won't bother making the trip back in to the city.

[1971GreyCup]

I absolutely agree, BMO isn't easy to get to. But that doesn't stop the TFC fans. The Dome is more convenient to get to (via public transit, at least), but was a terrible venue for football, while BMO may well have the best sight lines of any stadium I've ever been to - so the trip is worth it. Plus, many of the old(er) guard will have trucked down to Exhibition Stadium, back in the day, so why not BMO now?

There's no comparison to the traffic conditions to BMO Field vs. Exhibition Stadium. With exception to getting in and out of the parking lot. The city has probably tripled in size and infrastructure is exactly the same. It is noticeably much more difficult to get to games.

[ArgoZ]

Argos lost ALOT of fans with the eviction from Rogers Centre. BMO is not as easy to get to as it was and so people don't go.

I find BMO easier to get to, especially from the West. Lots of "secret" lots in Liberty village, really easy West end Medieval Times/Raptors lot. If you tailgate, you have a whole reserved lot. The train drops you off steps from the gate.

At the dome, I remember waiting for 1/2 hr on the Spadina exit, then another 1/2hr to park underground for $20 back then. Not exactly convenient. To catch a train, you would have to leave 30 minutes early to take the very long Skywalk.

[gilthethrill]

I find BMO easier to get to, especially from the West. Lots of "secret" lots in Liberty village, really easy West end Medieval Times/Raptors lot. If you tailgate, you have a whole reserved lot. The train drops you off steps from the gate.

At the dome, I remember waiting for 1/2 hr on the Spadina exit, then another 1/2hr to park underground for $20 back then. Not exactly convenient. To catch a train, you would have to leave 30 minutes early to take the very long Skywalk.

Don't miss the dome what so ever.

[1971GreyCup]

I find BMO easier to get to, especially from the West. Lots of "secret" lots in Liberty village, really easy West end Medieval Times/Raptors lot. If you tailgate, you have a whole reserved lot. The train drops you off steps from the gate.

At the dome, I remember waiting for 1/2 hr on the Spadina exit, then another 1/2hr to park underground for $20 back then. Not exactly convenient. To catch a train, you would have to leave 30 minutes early to take the very long Skywalk.

It's true, coming in from the west by car is considerably easier than the East, especially Monday to Friday. The DVP is often a problem and by Bloor you have to he entire City of Toronto heading home west in front of you. So bad that we've often driven to the west side and come down 427 to approach BMO Field from that side.

I think our solution for 2018 is to take the GO train to the game, but that means abandoning tailgating.

I'd add that the traffic problem becomes incrementally more difficult. After 10 years, you ask yourself how did it get this bad? No improvement in sight.

[AngeloV]

I find BMO easier to get to, especially from the West. Lots of "secret" lots in Liberty village, really easy West end Medieval Times/Raptors lot. If you tailgate, you have a whole reserved lot. The train drops you off steps from the gate.

At the dome, I remember waiting for 1/2 hr on the Spadina exit, then another 1/2hr to park underground for $20 back then. Not exactly convenient. To catch a train, you would have to leave 30 minutes early to take the very long Skywalk.

I agree. The only thing I miss about the dome was being able to walk there from work on weeknight game. I usually takes me 40 minutes or so to bet home after a game now. Used to take me 20 minutes just go walk to the parking log after a game at the dome.

[Argo57]

Argos lost ALOT of fans with the eviction from Rogers Centre. BMO is not as easy to get to as it was and so people don't go.

Don’t agree with this statement at all, BMO is actually easier to get to than Skydome.
Go train to the Ex, 2 minute walk and your there, not so difficult.

[Neely2005]

Don’t agree with this statement at all, BMO is actually easier to get to than Skydome.
Go train to the Ex, 2 minute walk and your there, not so difficult.

It depends on where you're coming from and how you get to the games.

The Rogers Centre is easier if you use the TTC as you can take the Subway.
The Rogers Centre is easier to get to if you're taking the GO Train from the East.
The Rogers Centre is easier if you're coming down the 404/DVP and across the Gardner or Lakeshore from the East.

BMO Field is easier if you're coming from the West.

For us it's easier and faster to get to the Rogers Centre.

[Tau Ceti]

I find it curious that the success or failure of TFC and the Argos are so often treated as a zero sum affair. While there's a basic linkage between all the sports teams in the city given a finite number of entertainment dollars spent, MLS growth has very little to do with CFL decline in Toronto.

[DoubleBlue_Red]

I find it curious that the success or failure of TFC and the Argos are so often treated as a zero sum affair. While there's a basic linkage between all the sports teams in the city given a finite number of entertainment dollars spent, MLS growth has very little to do with CFL decline in Toronto.

It has become more of a zero sum affair now that the teams are sharing BMO field. Clearly 1/2 the Argo fanbase does not like BMO field and are not attending.

[paulwoods13]

Clearly 1/2 the Argo fanbase does not like BMO field and are not attending.

Huh? So the Argos have 28,000 fans, but only 14,000 of them like BMO? Any evidence for this claim?