Tailgating Cancelled

[Topshelf]

MLSE is trying to build a fanbase, rather than maintain one.
The tailgate just didnt reach enough people.
No other team has a pre game party, other than say the TFC championship, or opening days, etc.
The Argos are probably going back to trying to get the "liberty village" crowd to come out. People that will ttc to the game.
I still think the only answer is to make a big signing. If Manziel goes to hamilton, that will be the biggest home game of the year.
Fans turned out for Rocket, there was "buzz" for Ricky before he got hurt.
TFC saw a boost in their lean years whenever a big star from another team was rolling into town. Heck a big number of people bought seasons seats the first year solely to see Beckham.
Thats the toronto market.
That said, the scheduling issue someone posted early, with competing concerts at ontario place makes a lot of sense.
I dont think it was solely a cost issue. They likely just felt they want to bring in a certain crowd that wasnt going to attend the tailgate anyways.
The majority of fans who will be upset with this are likely existing season seat holders, who will renew anyways.

[paulwoods13]

I still think the only answer is to make a big signing. If Manziel goes to hamilton, that will be the biggest home game of the year.
Fans turned out for Rocket, there was "buzz" for Ricky before he got hurt.

I've said it before, but it bears repeating. The Argos had ONE crowd above 40,000 in Rocket's first season, and then a 50k crowd for the Eastern Final. The next year, same thing -- a single crowd above 40,000.

In 2006, when Ricky Williams was with the Argos, the reported average home attendance was 32,000, It's been widely reported -- and I certainly believe -- that attendance figures from the Cynamon-Sokolowski era did not accurately reflect tickets sold.

"Buzz" can't be measured, but IMO whatever buzz the signing of Ricky Williams generated among non-fans was gone a couple of weeks after the season started.

If Toronto's only or best hope of gate success is stunt signings, I'd say we are doomed because there is no way to sign anyone who would actually move the needle without blowing the salary cap to smithereens. That happened in 1991 and while it had some short-term success, the franchise was at rock bottom two years later, with no "name" star and dwindling crowds.

[gilthethrill]

I've said it before, but it bears repeating. The Argos had ONE crowd above 40,000 in Rocket's first season, and then a 50k crowd for the Eastern Final. The next year, same thing -- a single crowd above 40,000.

In 2006, when Ricky Williams was with the Argos, the reported average home attendance was 32,000, It's been widely reported -- and I certainly believe -- that attendance figures from the Cynamon-Sokolowski era did not accurately reflect tickets sold.

"Buzz" can't be measured, but IMO whatever buzz the signing of Ricky Williams generated among non-fans was gone a couple of weeks after the season started.

If Toronto's only or best hope of gate success is stunt signings, I'd say we are doomed because there is no way to sign anyone who would actually move the needle without blowing the salary cap to smithereens. That happened in 1991 and while it had some short-term success, the franchise was at rock bottom two years later, with no "name" star and dwindling crowds.

In addition, the CFL has a salary cap, where as the soccer league TFC plays in, clearly does not.

[OV Argo]

I've said it before, but it bears repeating. The Argos had ONE crowd above 40,000 in Rocket's first season, and then a 50k crowd for the Eastern Final. The next year, same thing -- a single crowd above 40,000.

In 2006, when Ricky Williams was with the Argos, the reported average home attendance was 32,000, It's been widely reported -- and I certainly believe -- that attendance figures from the Cynamon-Sokolowski era did not accurately reflect tickets sold.

"Buzz" can't be measured, but IMO whatever buzz the signing of Ricky Williams generated among non-fans was gone a couple of weeks after the season started.

If Toronto's only or best hope of gate success is stunt signings, I'd say we are doomed because there is no way to sign anyone who would actually move the needle without blowing the salary cap to smithereens. That happened in 1991 and while it had some short-term success, the franchise was at rock bottom two years later, with no "name" star and dwindling crowds.

Wasn't a buzz about the new super SkyDome a factor in bigger Argo crowds back then as well - more people wanting to check out the facility ? (along with the Rocket plus Candy & Gretzky as part onwers) ?


Signing another ex-all-american/NFL super-hero would only create a slight bump in Argo interest for part of a season maybe ? (was attendance way up for the first couple of games Ricky Williams played for the Argos ?)


We all realize it will be a long, tough haul to get the Argos back to anything approaching decent crowds and much more respect on the TO sports scene. Agreed with Paul that some gimmick signing of a name American football star is no answer to the problem. It will, IMO, take a whole bunch of baby steps and little things to help the Argos regain some stature in the market. Marketing of all sorts and reaching out to new fans in many ways. That's why - IMO - the cancellation of the tailgate is myopic, bottom line thinking - by an ownership I have little trust knows anything much or smart about Canadian football - and is not going to help, when it could have continued to be one of the little things that helped.

[jerrym]

Wasn't a buzz about the new super SkyDome a factor in bigger Argo crowds back then as well - more people wanting to check out the facility ? (along with the Rocket plus Candy & Gretzky as part onwers) ?


Signing another ex-all-american/NFL super-hero would only create a slight bump in Argo interest for part of a season maybe ? (was attendance way up for the first couple of games Ricky Williams played for the Argos ?)


We all realize it will be a long, tough haul to get the Argos back to anything approaching decent crowds and much more respect on the TO sports scene. Agreed with Paul that some gimmick signing of a name American football star is no answer to the problem. It will, IMO, take a whole bunch of baby steps and little things to help the Argos regain some stature in the market. Marketing of all sorts and reaching out to new fans in many ways. That's why - IMO - the cancellation of the tailgate is myopic, bottom line thinking - by an ownership I have little trust knows anything much or smart about Canadian football - and is not going to help, when it could have continued to be one of the little things that helped.

I agree totally. Promoting a quick fix of any type only will lead to discouragement when it fails.

[PullTogether73]

Wasn't a buzz about the new super SkyDome a factor in bigger Argo crowds back then as well - more people wanting to check out the facility ? (along with the Rocket plus Candy & Gretzky as part onwers) ?


Signing another ex-all-american/NFL super-hero would only create a slight bump in Argo interest for part of a season maybe ? (was attendance way up for the first couple of games Ricky Williams played for the Argos ?)


We all realize it will be a long, tough haul to get the Argos back to anything approaching decent crowds and much more respect on the TO sports scene. Agreed with Paul that some gimmick signing of a name American football star is no answer to the problem. It will, IMO, take a whole bunch of baby steps and little things to help the Argos regain some stature in the market. Marketing of all sorts and reaching out to new fans in many ways. That's why - IMO - the cancellation of the tailgate is myopic, bottom line thinking - by an ownership I have little trust knows anything much or smart about Canadian football - and is not going to help, when it could have continued to be one of the little things that helped.

Agreed on all counts.

Again, assuming that there is a budget that must be followed, I do believe that lowering ticket prices will have a larger impact on attendance than the tailgate, so I would invest money there as the team has done.
However, the tailgate did offer something unique to the Argonauts in the Toronto sporting landscape. Maybe they bring it back eventually?

[Will]

Wasn't a buzz about the new super SkyDome a factor in bigger Argo crowds back then as well - more people wanting to check out the facility ? (along with the Rocket plus Candy & Gretzky as part onwers) ?


Signing another ex-all-american/NFL super-hero would only create a slight bump in Argo interest for part of a season maybe ? (was attendance way up for the first couple of games Ricky Williams played for the Argos ?)


We all realize it will be a long, tough haul to get the Argos back to anything approaching decent crowds and much more respect on the TO sports scene. Agreed with Paul that some gimmick signing of a name American football star is no answer to the problem. It will, IMO, take a whole bunch of baby steps and little things to help the Argos regain some stature in the market. Marketing of all sorts and reaching out to new fans in many ways. That's why - IMO - the cancellation of the tailgate is myopic, bottom line thinking - by an ownership I have little trust knows anything much or smart about Canadian football - and is not going to help, when it could have continued to be one of the little things that helped.

Argo attendance at the Dome was above 30,000 from 1989 through 1992. There was an increase in attendance from 1991 to 1992, but it wasn't significant.

The Argos reported attendance in the 30,000 range from 2005-2007 range and I don't think it changed much for the Williams' season.

The "name American football star" gimmick worked so well for the Argos in the 1970's too.

[paulwoods13]

Argo attendance at the Dome was above 30,000 from 1989 through 1992. There was an increase in attendance from 1991 to 1992, but it wasn't significant.

Slight decrease from 1991 to 1992, according to this database:

https://stats.cfldb.ca/team/toronto-...tendance/1991/
https://stats.cfldb.ca/team/toronto-...tendance/1992/

[Neely2005]

Wasn't a buzz about the new super SkyDome a factor in bigger Argo crowds back then as well - more people wanting to check out the facility ? (along with the Rocket plus Candy & Gretzky as part onwers) ?


Signing another ex-all-american/NFL super-hero would only create a slight bump in Argo interest for part of a season maybe ? (was attendance way up for the first couple of games Ricky Williams played for the Argos ?)


We all realize it will be a long, tough haul to get the Argos back to anything approaching decent crowds and much more respect on the TO sports scene. Agreed with Paul that some gimmick signing of a name American football star is no answer to the problem. It will, IMO, take a whole bunch of baby steps and little things to help the Argos regain some stature in the market. Marketing of all sorts and reaching out to new fans in many ways. That's why - IMO - the cancellation of the tailgate is myopic, bottom line thinking - by an ownership I have little trust knows anything much or smart about Canadian football - and is not going to help, when it could have continued to be one of the little things that helped.

Yeah it really doesn't make any sense why they cancelled the only thing that was unique to the Argonauts in a crowded and competitive Toronto sports market. Totally shooting themselves in the foot.

[Argo57]

Yeah it really doesn't make any sense why they cancelled the only thing that was unique to the Argonauts in a crowded and competitive Toronto sports market. Totally shooting themselves in the foot.

If Argonaut attendance figures were rising I might be inclined to agree but the opposite is in fact true so eliminating tailgating is a non issue IMO.

[OV Argo]

If Argonaut attendance figures were rising I might be inclined to agree but the opposite is in fact true so eliminating tailgating is a non issue IMO.

Eliminating an effort to promote the Argos and the game day experience at the stadium - one that has been reported as popular & fun by many fans - or ANY effort to promote and market this team, is a"non issue" ? Sorry, I just don't get that.

[Argo57]

Eliminating an effort to promote the Argos and the game day experience at the stadium - one that has been reported as popular & fun by many fans - or ANY effort to promote and market this team, is a"non issue" ? Sorry, I just don't get that.

Attendance numbers speak volumes IMO, tailgating has had little to no effect on the bottom line, sorry OV.

[Argocister]

If Argonaut attendance figures were rising I might be inclined to agree but the opposite is in fact true so eliminating tailgating is a non issue IMO.

yea... I'm with OVArgo on this one .... If at least 10 % of your seasons ticket holders (if not more) are participating in this .... its not a non-issue.
It is a non-issue if you don't care about your existing STH.

I agree with the cost of the tickets .... and reducing them will hopefully work ... but rather than nix the tailgate, figuring out a less expensive alternative may have kept a good number of the STH happier.... but that may not fit into Mannings pre set program the Argos are to follow.

[Argo57]

yea... I'm with OVArgo on this one .... If at least 10 % of your seasons ticket holders (if not more) are participating in this .... its not a non-issue.
It is a non-issue if you don't care about your existing STH.

I agree with the cost of the tickets .... and reducing them will hopefully work ... but rather than nix the tailgate, figuring out a less expensive alternative may have kept a good number of the STH happier.... but that may not fit into Mannings pre set program the Argos are to follow.

Let’s see what the Argos come up with in regards to the game day experience and see what happens, perhaps the 350 or so STH’s that are unhappy or upset at this cancellation will be happy with the change.
Personally I see more upside in drawing more fans to the games with affordable ticket pricing vs tailgating which seemed to be Michael Copeland’s answer for everything.

[Neely2005]

If Argonaut attendance figures were rising I might be inclined to agree but the opposite is in fact true so eliminating tailgating is a non issue IMO.

It's the only thing that differentiated the Argonauts gameday experience from every other Toronto teams gameday experience.