View Poll Results: Where should the new Argonauts Stadium be located?

Voters
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  • Richmond Hill

    3 5.26%
  • Markham

    3 5.26%
  • Vaughan

    7 12.28%
  • Woodbine Racetrack

    4 7.02%
  • York University

    2 3.51%
  • Downsview

    13 22.81%
  • BMO Field

    19 33.33%
  • Other

    6 10.53%
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  1. #1
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    Question New Stadium Locations

    I was wondering what everyone thinks is the best location for the new Argonauts stadium. As we all know the Argonauts have to vacate the Rogers Centre in 4 years (by 2017) although the agreement does say that they might consider letting the Argonauts stay 1 additonal year if their new stadium isn't ready yet.

    I've heard the following locations mentioned as possibilities in the 416:

    BMO Field
    Woodbine Racetrack
    Downsview
    York University

    How would you feel if the Argonauts moved to the 905? I think that these locations could work:

    Markham
    Vaughan
    Richmond Hill

    Markham is considering building an NHL sized hockey rink. Could a CFL sized stadium fit on these grounds too?

    Buttonville Airport in Markham is about to close. It would be a great location for a new CFL sized stadium. It's on the 404 and close to the 407 & Highway 7. It's at the intersection of Woodbine Avenue & 16th Avenue both of which are 4 Lane streets with no parking allowed on the street.

    Richmond Hill boarders Vaughan, Aurora & Newmarket and the 404, 407 & Highway 7 all pass through Richmond Hill. The Viva high speed buses connect to Finch Station and new Viva & YRT bus right of way lanes have just opened along Highway 7 and are comming to Yonge Street too. The Yonge Street Subway is in the planning stages of being extended from Finch to Highway 7. An extension of the 404 North of Newmarket is about to open.

    Vaughan has the 400, 407 and Highway 7 passing through it and construction is already underway to extend the Subway north from Downsview Station into Vaughan.

    It's my understanding that the majority of Argonauts fans are actually from the 905 Area Code, so perhaps it's time to consider moving the Argonauts to the 905? This would be similar to how the Ottawa Senators aren't actually located in Ottawa but are in the Ottawa suburb of Kanata.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
    It's my understanding that the majority of Argonauts fans are actually from the 905 Area Code, so perhaps it's time to consider moving the Argonauts to the 905? This would be similar to how the Ottawa Senators aren't actually located in Ottawa but are in the Ottawa suburb of Kanata.
    I've made this point in other threads and on other forums, but it bears repeating: even if it is true that the majority of Argo ticket-buyers live in the 905 area code, that is a massive agglomeration of many communities stretching from Oshawa/Whitby/Pickering in the east to Burlington/Hamilton/Niagara in the west. Someone living in Pickering is pretty unlikely to go to a game in Mississauga, say, just because the two cities share an area code.

    The traffic woes last night, documented elsewhere in this forum, may actually enhance the case for BMO or some other downtown location, because at least with a downtown stadium there is an option from the suburbs that does not involve fighting traffic (GO Transit). If the stadium is put in any of the suburban locations that have been suggested, anyone who is not originating downtown will have virtually no choice but to drive. I would wager that traffic in all parts of the GTA (not just into and out of downtown) is only going to get worse in the next few decades.

    I realize there are many Argo fans who would prefer to drive and feel it would be easier to drive to Woodbine/Downsview/York/etc., and for at least some of them (perhaps many of them) that is undoubtedly true. But there are others who would find getting there harder than it is currently, and there is a risk that those fans would not go to the new location. As I've said before, the Argo brass need to weigh that risk -- if they are reasonably sure they can pick up enough new paying customers to offset current paying customers who might be lost because of a move to the suburbs, then they can and should proceed if a suburban stadium is the best option. Personally I would be reluctant to risk chasing any existing fans away, considering the franchise needs more ticket buyers than it has now. But it's a fairly straightforward calculation they should be able to make.

  3. #3
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    Mississauga is another one that was brought up before in an article with Braley. I vote "Other" for Mississauaga. My 2nd unselfish vote would be BMO.

    I agree with Paul on this one. Heck we all want it close to our home for selfish reasons, myself included but I believe it has to be somewhere near the city's core. Therefore BMO is the best fit. Varsity would have been better but we all know what happened with that.
    Last edited by ArgoGabe22; 10-25-2013 at 04:28 PM.
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    I suspect these stadium threads will become much more frequent until something is announced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulder View Post
    I suspect these stadium threads will become much more frequent until something is announced.
    Yeah, it's amazing we haven't had much traffic on this topic lately. So get ready for a year or so of speculation.

    In (slightly) related news, someone on riderfans has noted that Raptors play at home at 1 o'clock on Nov. 17, and speculated the Eastern Final might be moved to prime time. Speaking personally I would be in favour of that. I'd hate waiting all day for it to start, but the buzz created by a prime-time game would be cool, IMO. I thought the atmosphere and buzz were amazing at the 2004 Eastern Semifinal although a lot of that was likely due to its Friday night time slot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13 View Post
    Yeah, it's amazing we haven't had much traffic on this topic lately. So get ready for a year or so of speculation.

    In (slightly) related news, someone on riderfans has noted that Raptors play at home at 1 o'clock on Nov. 17, and speculated the Eastern Final might be moved to prime time. Speaking personally I would be in favour of that. I'd hate waiting all day for it to start, but the buzz created by a prime-time game would be cool, IMO. I thought the atmosphere and buzz were amazing at the 2004 Eastern Semifinal although a lot of that was likely due to its Friday night time slot.
    Saw that as well. Maybe tweeted the commish. I suspect TSN already has commitments for Sunday night football though.

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    Raps, Real Sports, then Argos. Sounds like an awesome day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mulder View Post
    Saw that as well. Maybe tweeted the commish. I suspect TSN already has commitments for Sunday night football though.
    TSN 2 for NFL

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    talk about traffic, wait 'till the 17th of november....raptors game + santa claus parade + eastern final = chaos

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13 View Post
    Yeah, it's amazing we haven't had much traffic on this topic lately. So get ready for a year or so of speculation.

    In (slightly) related news, someone on riderfans has noted that Raptors play at home at 1 o'clock on Nov. 17, and speculated the Eastern Final might be moved to prime time. Speaking personally I would be in favour of that. I'd hate waiting all day for it to start, but the buzz created by a prime-time game would be cool, IMO. I thought the atmosphere and buzz were amazing at the 2004 Eastern Semifinal although a lot of that was likely due to its Friday night time slot.
    Back in 2003-05, the league had playoff games at 3:30 pm and 7:00 pm EDT and those times certainly worked well for TV ratings and didn't work too badly for attendance either. I think that most of us on here can fondly recall the Argos beating the Als on a Sunday night in the '04 East Final before 50k at the Big Owe and a large prime time audience on CBC. You are right, Paul, that the Friday night playoff game worked out beautifully for the Argos. I think that moving the East Final this year to 4:00 pm with the West Final right after would work nicely. The Argos drew 44k for an East Final at SkyDome that started at 3:30 pm IIRC in 2005.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13
    I've made this point in other threads and on other forums, but it bears repeating: even if it is true that the majority of Argo ticket-buyers live in the 905 area code, that is a massive agglomeration of many communities stretching from Oshawa/Whitby/Pickering in the east to Burlington/Hamilton/Niagara in the west. Someone living in Pickering is pretty unlikely to go to a game in Mississauga, say, just because the two cities share an area code.
    Agree completely. "The suburbs" is not a single location that can be easily catered to. BMO Field is the best of all possible evils.

    Also agree about moving the game time up for the eastern final but you'd think they'd already have determined that if it was going to happen. Tickets for the 1:00 pm slot went on sale within minutes of last night's win.

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    Did you guys see the game between Carolina and Tampa Bay on Thursday? Tampa Bay's grass looks dead. If we play with Toronto FC in BMO, it will be the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArgoRavi View Post
    Back in 2003-05, the league had playoff games at 3:30 pm and 7:00 pm EDT and those times certainly worked well for TV ratings and didn't work too badly for attendance either. I think that most of us on here can fondly recall the Argos beating the Als on a Sunday night in the '04 East Final before 50k at the Big Owe and a large prime time audience on CBC. You are right, Paul, that the Friday night playoff game worked out beautifully for the Argos. I think that moving the East Final this year to 4:00 pm with the West Final right after would work nicely. The Argos drew 44k for an East Final at SkyDome that started at 3:30 pm IIRC in 2005.
    Those start times would be nice, but as Mulder said, this is TSN doing. It was a lot easier back then with CBC as they were a lot more flexible with their schedule. Prime sports property or not, TSN is still hot for the NFL.
    It is going to be a mess downtown that Sunday. 40000 (hopefully) for the east final, 200k for the parade and a couple of dozen for the bouncingball game. This all could have been avoided, but as we all know, it's all Chris Rudge's fault. Sorry, I couldn't resist. I'm just mocking some posters on this and other football forms.

    I'm still a firm believer in Downsview. I like the idea on being downtown in the Portlands, but I can't see anything happening there until the next iceage retreats. Downsview seems to be the best available spot, right at the old supply depot. It's central to pretty much everywhere, right on a GO and subway station with lots of room to park and party.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deerkeeper View Post
    Downsview seems to be the best available spot, right at the old supply depot. It's central to pretty much everywhere, right on a GO and subway station with lots of room to park and party.
    As far as I know, Downsview does not have a GO station at the moment, but the TTC's website for its proposed York-Spadina subway extension says GO Transit "has committed to cost sharing for this fully-integrated, multi-modal transit facility." Even if that happens (and with transit planning in the GTA, who knows?) the station presumably will be part of a northern GO line and not accessible from east or west. So for those who rely on transit and/or hate to drive in Toronto traffic, getting there would be an ordeal if they live anywhere other than on the subway line or the northern line served by that new GO station.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flafson View Post
    Did you guys see the game between Carolina and Tampa Bay on Thursday? Tampa Bay's grass looks dead. If we play with Toronto FC in BMO, it will be the same.
    What is your reasoning? Will those darn soccer players ruin our grass? LOL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13 View Post
    I've made this point in other threads and on other forums, but it bears repeating: even if it is true that the majority of Argo ticket-buyers live in the 905 area code, that is a massive agglomeration of many communities stretching from Oshawa/Whitby/Pickering in the east to Burlington/Hamilton/Niagara in the west. Someone living in Pickering is pretty unlikely to go to a game in Mississauga, say, just because the two cities share an area code.

    The traffic woes last night, documented elsewhere in this forum, may actually enhance the case for BMO or some other downtown location, because at least with a downtown stadium there is an option from the suburbs that does not involve fighting traffic (GO Transit). If the stadium is put in any of the suburban locations that have been suggested, anyone who is not originating downtown will have virtually no choice but to drive. I would wager that traffic in all parts of the GTA (not just into and out of downtown) is only going to get worse in the next few decades.

    I realize there are many Argo fans who would prefer to drive and feel it would be easier to drive to Woodbine/Downsview/York/etc., and for at least some of them (perhaps many of them) that is undoubtedly true. But there are others who would find getting there harder than it is currently, and there is a risk that those fans would not go to the new location. As I've said before, the Argo brass need to weigh that risk -- if they are reasonably sure they can pick up enough new paying customers to offset current paying customers who might be lost because of a move to the suburbs, then they can and should proceed if a suburban stadium is the best option. Personally I would be reluctant to risk chasing any existing fans away, considering the franchise needs more ticket buyers than it has now. But it's a fairly straightforward calculation they should be able to make.
    The problem with BMO Field is for people that have to drive or take the TTC. Yes there is GO Train access (depending on the start & end time of the game and where you're coming from) if you're coming from the East or the West. However if you're coming from the North it's brutal to get to and the TTC access is a joke. I've taken the TTC to BMO Field for TFC Games and to the Exhibition Grounds for Marlies Games & for Concerts at the Molson Amphitheater and it's brutal. If you're lucky the TTC will run a few extra Streetcars into the Exhibition grounds but nowhere near enough and you end up literally having to fight to get on the Streetcar and then you're crammed in there like a sardine.

    On top of that there's nowhere near enough parking and the parking that there is, is very expensive. Plus a lot of parking disappears for the 3 Weeks or so that the CNE is on.

    Then there's the issues with the Stadium itself. It's like a poor mans version of the old Ivor Wynne, albeit newer and in better condition.

    As to a Stadium in the Suburbs if it's relativley close to Yonge Street and/or Highway 7 there will be excellent Transit options via the Viva High Speed Buses and the regular YRT Buses and you can take the Subway to Finch Station - and hopefully one day soon all the way to Highway 7. You can also take the Subway to Downsview and soon you'll be able to take it all the way into Vaughan.

    For me the BMO Field location is one of the worst possibilities as I'm coming from the North end of Toronto. I probably wouldn't renew my Seasons Tickets if they go to BMO Field. It's just a terrible location for me personally. The funny thing is that 'it's so close, yet so far' from the current location at the Rogers Centre.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArgoGabe22 View Post
    Mississauga is another one that was brought up before in an article with Braley. I vote "Other" for Mississauaga. My 2nd unselfish vote would be BMO.

    I agree with Paul on this one. Heck we all want it close to our home for selfish reasons, myself included but I believe it has to be somewhere near the city's core. Therefore BMO is the best fit. Varsity would have been better but we all know what happened with that.
    Sorry I should have made Mississauga an option, didn't think of that.

    Personally I'm glad that they didn't go to Varsity. That location is a nightmare for anyone who has to drive and there is very little parking.

  17. #17
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    I guess no site would be good for us at this point. Living ten minutes north of Norwood makes any venture to an Argo game tough. I guess for selfish reasons anything east of the downtown would be cool. Who knows what will happen with future transit or hwy development towards Peterborough. Hell we're just excited to have picked a great place to call home.

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    Speaking of traffic - I'm hoping that if we wind up in a new stadium, the Argos will have better control of dates. Meaning, no more weeknight games. Wherever the stadium is, and I'm still hoping for downtown - traffic won't be nearly as much of an issue if we're playing on Saturday afternoons.

    I bet many people would think better of Skydome if they weren't constantly fighting weekday rush hour traffic to get there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shayman View Post
    Speaking of traffic - I'm hoping that if we wind up in a new stadium, the Argos will have better control of dates. Meaning, no more weeknight games. Wherever the stadium is, and I'm still hoping for downtown - traffic won't be nearly as much of an issue if we're playing on Saturday afternoons.

    I bet many people would think better of Skydome if they weren't constantly fighting weekday rush hour traffic to get there.
    I actually don't mind the Rogers Centre. Close to the DVP, the Gardiner and the Lakeshore. Plus very close to the Subway and GO. As I get older I really enjoy having the roof to keep me warm and dry too!

    As to dates I can't imagine that they can get any worse than this season.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
    The problem with BMO Field is for people that have to drive or take the TTC. Yes there is GO Train access (depending on the start & end time of the game and where you're coming from) if you're coming from the East or the West. However if you're coming from the North it's brutal to get to and the TTC access is a joke. I've taken the TTC to BMO Field for TFC Games and to the Exhibition Grounds for Marlies Games & for Concerts at the Molson Amphitheater and it's brutal. If you're lucky the TTC will run a few extra Streetcars into the Exhibition grounds but nowhere near enough and you end up literally having to fight to get on the Streetcar and then you're crammed in there like a sardine.
    There's no site anywhere that is immune to traffic from all directions. If it's brutal to drive to BMO from the north (and I'm sure it is), it must also be brutal to drive to Rogers Centre from the north. Just as it can be brutal to drive to RC from the west (it certainly was on Friday night, at least) and from the east quite often. No matter where the stadium ends up, driving there will involve fighting traffic for anyone who does not live within a couple of kilometres. The point I've been trying to make is that at least downtown (or at the Ex), you have an option to get there -- from all directions -- that does not require you to drive in Toronto traffic. Anywhere outside the downtown core will eliminate that option for at least some paying customers. If the team can offset any losses from that group with gains from other customers, moving to the suburbs would be a good idea. If not, it won't be.

    I don't disagree that the leg of the journey from subway to Ex can be unpleasant on crowded streetcars, but Argo fans put up with that for 30 years when the team played at the Ex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
    Then there's the issues with the Stadium itself. It's like a poor mans version of the old Ivor Wynne, albeit newer and in better condition.
    I think it's fairly certain (based on comments from Leiwecke) that the stadium is going to be renovated extensively, whether or not the Argos become a tenant or partner, so I don't think the current setup should be seen as what we'd be moving into.

    Quote Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
    As to a Stadium in the Suburbs if it's relativley close to Yonge Street and/or Highway 7 there will be excellent Transit options via the Viva High Speed Buses and the regular YRT Buses and you can take the Subway to Finch Station - and hopefully one day soon all the way to Highway 7. You can also take the Subway to Downsview and soon you'll be able to take it all the way into Vaughan.
    There are no high-speed buses that I know of from west of the city or east of the city to the area you are speaking of. Someone living in Oakville, Burlington or Milton (and presumably Pickering/Oshawa/Whitby although I am not positive about that) would need to take GO train to Union, then subway to the stadium. A journey that would take 90 minutes or more from most locations. If GO ever adds a route that goes across the top of Toronto from the eastern and western suburbs, it would be a different story, but I think that's unlikely as there already seems to be a shortage of usable rails.

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