What are your honest, realistic expectations of this team.

[paulwoods13]

I just don't see how Ricky Ray can be considered "over the hill" even if he stays healthy. Last season he completed 74.5% of his passes, second-highest percentage of his career. His TD/INT ratio (2.5/1) was fourth-best of his career and just slightly behind his second-best of 2.7/1 -(2013 was an outlier at 10.5/1). His average gain per pass (8.0) was just 10th-highest out of the 13 seasons in which he played at least nine games, but basically where he has been throughout his career (8.0 last season, 8.3 career).

In his five years with the Argos, he has had a higher completion percentage (71.2 vs. 66.8), higher TD/INT ratio (2.5 vs. 1.6) and slightly lower avg gain (8.2 vs. 8.4) than in his first nine seasons. The only thing he is demonstrably worse at is staying off the injury list. When he's been healthy his play has been at least equal to, and arguably better than, what it was for the first nine years of his career.

[KCargosfan]

I just don't see how Ricky Ray can be considered "over the hill" even if he stays healthy. Last season he completed 74.5% of his passes, second-highest percentage of his career. His TD/INT ratio (2.5/1) was fourth-best of his career and just slightly behind his second-best of 2.7/1 -(2013 was an outlier at 10.5/1). His average gain per pass (8.0) was just 10th-highest out of the 13 seasons in which he played at least nine games, but basically where he has been throughout his career (8.0 last season, 8.3 career).

In his five years with the Argos, he has had a higher completion percentage (71.2 vs. 66.8), higher TD/INT ratio (2.5 vs. 1.6) and slightly lower avg gain (8.2 vs. 8.4) than in his first nine seasons. The only thing he is demonstrably worse at is staying off the injury list. When he's been healthy his play has been at least equal to, and arguably better than, what it was for the first nine years of his career.

Kind of an important thing.

From what we've seen, what leads you or anyone to believe Ray can stay healthy and on the field? He isn't half the athlete Burris is/was, and imo he's a worse athlete than Calvillo.

Ray will turn 38 during the season. He's started 11 games the past 2 seasons. His arm strength isn't what it was 4 years ago. All of those factors can make him over the hill.

[paulwoods13]

Kind of an important thing.

From what we've seen, what leads you or anyone to believe Ray can stay healthy and on the field? He isn't half the athlete Burris is/was, and imo he's a worse athlete than Calvillo.

Ray will turn 38 during the season. He's started 11 games the past 2 seasons. His arm strength isn't what it was 4 years ago. All of those factors can make him over the hill.

I gather you are basing the over-the-hill contention entirely on his injury history, and you don't wish to address any of the other points I raised about his performance when healthy?

His injuries have been to different areas, and some of them have been fluky -- anyone (even a great athlete) could have been hurt in the same position. Arm strength was never his calling card. I disagree he's a worse athlete than Calvillo.

[KCargosfan]

I gather you are basing the over-the-hill contention entirely on his injury history, and you don't wish to address any of the other points I raised about his performance when healthy?

His injuries have been to different areas, and some of them have been fluky -- anyone (even a great athlete) could have been hurt in the same position. Arm strength was never his calling card. I disagree he's a worse athlete than Calvillo.

So injury history isn't relevant? Nor is age?

And my own pair of eyes watching the game. Stats don't tell the whole story.

The fact he never had a great arm should be a concern as at 37, unless he starts taking steroids, that will only get worse, as will mobility.

Calvillo was one of the faster semi-fat dudes I've seen. Ray is faster than he looks, but I'd take Calvillo in an obstacle course challenge.

[doubleblue]

Kind of an important thing.

From what we've seen, what leads you or anyone to believe Ray can stay healthy and on the field? He isn't half the athlete Burris is/was, and imo he's a worse athlete than Calvillo.

Ray will turn 38 during the season. He's started 11 games the past 2 seasons. His arm strength isn't what it was 4 years ago. All of those factors can make him over the hill.

I agree there are was red flags going forward with Ricky. But, IMO he is still the best QB available for the Argos right now. The thing is to keep the big hits from happening. The late hit from Vaughan Martin was more of a fluke injury IMO and the hit he took in the Hamilton game shouldn't have happened because a DE came unblocked. I have confidence in Trestman's offence to design plays for quick release plays that made Cavillo so successful. Would love to see a big back like Messam back there to ride shotgun for Ricky and pick up the blitz's that defenses will use, but that never seems to happen in Toronto. Only (unsuccessful) lol teams like Calgary would think of doing such a thing.

[AngeloV]

IMO and the hit he took in the Hamilton game shouldn't have happened because a DE came unblocked.

IMO the hit in Hamilton should never have happened because on the previous play Tom Valessi and his crew ruled an obvious target area PI in the endzone as an illegal contact. That placed the ball on the 4 yard line rather than the 1. Had the correct call been made, Fajardo would have been in for the goal line situation, and Ray would never have been hit.

[gilthethrill]

IMO the hit in Hamilton should never have happened because on the previous play Tom Valessi and his crew ruled an obvious target area PI in the endzone as an illegal contact. That placed the ball on the 4 yard line rather than the 1. Had the correct call been made, Fajardo would have been in for the goal line situation, and Ray would never have been hit.

That call still irritates me. Another turning point of the Argo season.

[Argo57]

That call still irritates me. Another turning point of the Argo season.

Valessi is quite pitiful to watch at the best of times.

[Neely2005]

I just don't see how Ricky Ray can be considered "over the hill" even if he stays healthy. Last season he completed 74.5% of his passes, second-highest percentage of his career. His TD/INT ratio (2.5/1) was fourth-best of his career and just slightly behind his second-best of 2.7/1 -(2013 was an outlier at 10.5/1). His average gain per pass (8.0) was just 10th-highest out of the 13 seasons in which he played at least nine games, but basically where he has been throughout his career (8.0 last season, 8.3 career).

In his five years with the Argos, he has had a higher completion percentage (71.2 vs. 66.8), higher TD/INT ratio (2.5 vs. 1.6) and slightly lower avg gain (8.2 vs. 8.4) than in his first nine seasons. The only thing he is demonstrably worse at is staying off the injury list. When he's been healthy his play has been at least equal to, and arguably better than, what it was for the first nine years of his career.

Nah the numbers lie, Ray is over the hill and washed up. No chance that a QB could be successful at 37+ in professional football.

[KCargosfan]

Nah the numbers lie, Ray is over the hill and washed up. No chance that a QB could be successful at 37+ in professional football.

Here is another number: Ray has started 12 games in 2 years. And Ray is a far worse athlete than most of the QBs that hang around that long.

What makes you think Ray can play a good amount of games this season? The fact that other people have past 37? Great logic.

[Neely2005]

I just don't see how Ricky Ray can be considered "over the hill" even if he stays healthy. Last season he completed 74.5% of his passes, second-highest percentage of his career. His TD/INT ratio (2.5/1) was fourth-best of his career and just slightly behind his second-best of 2.7/1 -(2013 was an outlier at 10.5/1). His average gain per pass (8.0) was just 10th-highest out of the 13 seasons in which he played at least nine games, but basically where he has been throughout his career (8.0 last season, 8.3 career).

In his five years with the Argos, he has had a higher completion percentage (71.2 vs. 66.8), higher TD/INT ratio (2.5 vs. 1.6) and slightly lower avg gain (8.2 vs. 8.4) than in his first nine seasons. The only thing he is demonstrably worse at is staying off the injury list. When he's been healthy his play has been at least equal to, and arguably better than, what it was for the first nine years of his career.

Ricky Ray of the @TorontoArgos was the only QB without an INT from numbers to the boundary on both sides. 138.6 is ridiculous!
Details #CFL pic.twitter.com/6iKpk3CCv2

— Derek Taylor 🇨🇦🏈 (@DTonSC) May 23, 2017