GAME THREAD - Week 3: Toronto Argonauts @ Ottawa Redblacks

[OV Argo]

Sure there is. Sinopoli should have taken a look before kicking it, and just run the ball if there was an Argo within 15 yards who wasn't retreating. He wouldn't have gotten a first down, but they could still have punted.

Exactly; and watching that play from where I was in the stadium, it looked like Sinopoli just fumbled the ball and it went off his foot; if you're going to try that play, the punt should be well down the field to make it worth your while, not a 4 yard dribbler - he could have easily run for more yards.

[Argofan_1000]

Now that was a fun game. Argos won against the RB's who fought the best team in the league to a draw and overtime loss. Montreal went with 2 internationals on their OL this year, we need to do the same as RR was too pressured all game.

[OV Argo]

Hats off to the entire RedBlacks organization. Another sellout. Electric environment in stadium and for blocks in all directions. Big turnout of Millennials, GenX and GenZ and the traditional greying fans. All wore CEL/RedBlacks merchandise. The scoreboard welcomed a number of minor league football teams from Ottawa and Gatineau areas.

We stepped out of the stadium and onto free transit that whisked us right downtown to our hotel.

They created and established a successful brand in four years. Business schools will teach this stuff someday.

This is something to look forward to someday.

I hope you are right about that type of CFL success being duplicated in Toronto; but somehow, there is something deeply wrong there. You are right about all the younger crowd that turns out to party at Lansdowne now for RedBlacks games, and a lot of them decked out in gear - hats, Ts, jersey's , etc. But in Toronnawannabe land this may never be possible, because too many lemming/sheep have been convinced that the CFL is not cool or "major league" and they may never get into it? IMO - this is due to years, no, decades of all the pathetic little wannabe dweebs in the media in TO looking down their noses at the CFL, with negative or mocking or lacking coverage of the Argos & the CFL; and nobody else in the media with the guts to stand up to those wannabes; and too many former Argos fans keeping silent or being intimidated by the B$ ?

How to overcome this ???

[Will]

Did J'Michael Deane play at all yesterday? I realize he isn't necessarily a CFL all-star, but IMO the Argos need to see if he'd be an upgrade on Watman before adding a second INT on the offensive line.

[1971GreyCup]

I love the kick it in kick it out rule as well.

We sat right behind the Argos last night and it was great to see how pumped up Lirim H. was when he ran out to the end zone for the last play of the game. 3-down football quirky rule. We love it!

[AngeloV]

Ricky Ray is one tough SOB.

As is Trevor Harris. I will never cut him up again.

[AngeloV]

How is it a stupid rule? Because the NFL doesn't do it?

Its football. You should be allowed to kick the ball. In the NFL that would be an illegal kick, because the "kicker" didn't kick the ball. There shouldn't be such a thing as a kicker, until that player kicks the ball. Don't try to contrive the rules like the NFL has to the point of the game no longer being football.

IMO it's stupid that when you need 21 yards for a first down that you can kick the ball 1 yard down field and recover for a first down. No issue with on side kicks, but the ball should at least have to go past the first down marker.

[R.J]

As is Trevor Harris. I will never cut him up again.

Both took some hellacious hits, and both deserve kudos for dusting them off and calling the next play.

IMO it's stupid that when you need 21 yards for a first down that you can kick the ball 1 yard down field and recover for a first down. No issue with on side kicks, but the ball should at least have to go past the first down marker.

Agreed Angelo, it's a weird rule that needs to be tweaked. I also dislike that you can also essentially kick to yourself in that situation.

[AngeloV]

We sat right behind the Argos last night and it was great to see how pumped up Lirim H. was when he ran out to the end zone for the last play of the game. 3-down football quirky rule. We love it!

Yeah, you and your son are a couple of camera hogs. Saw you on the TV a couple of times.

[AngeloV]

This might sound strange, but I think a big turning g point was when the Argos gamble on 3rd and 2 and came up short. Trestman showed confidence in both the o and d there, and the Argos turned it up a notch for the rest of the game. Confidence goes a long way in football.

[1971GreyCup]

Yeah, you and your son are a couple of camera hogs. Saw you on the TV a couple of times.

Man you caught us in the act! Haha

The gigs up AngeloV. Interesting team dynamics from that position. We couldnt see a thing on the field and watched the scoreboard. All that we liked. Butler a great teammate. M. Ball pumping up the D. RedBlack fans were riding Ricky, Posey and Green really hard. Posey shut them up with a big TD!

[1971GreyCup]

This might sound strange, but I think a big turning g point was when the Argos gamble on 3rd and 2 and came up short. Trestman showed confidence in both the o and d there, and the Argos turned it up a notch for the rest of the game. Confidence goes a long way in football.

That play that will make the CFL bloopers reels for years was huge. Liam could almost hear ESPN Chris Berman say "Come on, man!"

[paulwoods13]

This might sound strange, but I think a big turning g point was when the Argos gamble on 3rd and 2 and came up short. Trestman showed confidence in both the o and d there, and the Argos turned it up a notch for the rest of the game. Confidence goes a long way in football.

I agree. I said at the time they needed to go for it, and I didn't feel failing was going to hurt them.

[Wobbler]

It's funny -- we seldom see all 24 players on TV at once, but right before that snap, TSN showed a distant shot and it was clear that the Argos' back eight were all about 15 yards downfield in a sort of "prevent" look. I can totally see why Ott ran that play, because it almost certainly would have worked if Murray hadn't read it and reacted as well as he did.

I don't think I saw that shot - my video stream was not very reliable yesterday. The isolation video made the play look like a complete no-hoper.

Exactly; and watching that play from where I was in the stadium, it looked like Sinopoli just fumbled the ball and it went off his foot; if you're going to try that play, the punt should be well down the field to make it worth your while, not a 4 yard dribbler - he could have easily run for more yards.

I think very few people understood what was happening while that play was running. The TV explanation was that the goal was to get a "free" first down by recovering a minimum-distance kick, OV, instead of trying to get the 20 yards.

[Wobbler]

IMO it's stupid that when you need 21 yards for a first down that you can kick the ball 1 yard down field and recover for a first down. No issue with on side kicks, but the ball should at least have to go past the first down marker.

Wait, what? I thought all on-side kicks had to travel at least 10 yards.

[Argo]

As is Trevor Harris. I will never cut him up again.

Harris is a very solid CFL QB, with the added "talent" of durability.

[AngeloV]

Wait, what? I thought all on-side kicks had to travel at least 10 yards.

That's on a kickoff. I tweeted Glen Johnson last night about the play and he confirmed what Climie said that on a punt, the ball just has to cross the line of scrimmage, and if the kicking team recovers, it's their ball 1st and 10. Really stupid rule. Ball should have to go past the first down marker IMO. I replied to him and said that the rules committee really needs to review this.

[OV Argo]

I don't think I saw that shot - my video stream was not very reliable yesterday. The isolation video made the play look like a complete no-hoper.


I think very few people understood what was happening while that play was running. The TV explanation was that the goal was to get a "free" first down by recovering a minimum-distance kick, OV, instead of trying to get the 20 yards.

There's a reason, IMO, I guess, that "free" first down by recovering a punt play is rarely tried - very difficult to pull off, even if the ball only has to go one yard (is that the rule?) = only the punter would be able to recover it (unless other players are behind him, it would be no yards penalty?), and it's hard to control a kick like that so you can easily recover - most of the time you will be handing (er, kicking) the ball back to the opposition with just a few yards of field position gained.

The principle of kicking the ball in the Canadian football is different than in American ball - kicking/punting is a way of advancing the ball on the field - , and the rules should be respected and not changed for the sake of being more American. Single points are part of the game; and having the option to return the ball out of the end zone (either running or kicking it) is part of it too - the "reward for failure" argument is garbage by people who do not understand Canadian rules - you can be rewarded field position by kicking the ball, and you also can turn the ball over to the opposition that way. Old Argo fans may recall the infamous Harry Abofs punt return "kick" in the 71 GC - it was ruled he kicked the ball (could have been ruled accidental though?) out of bounds when he was trying to field a Stamps punt - he kicked it back to them by kicking it out of bounds and they got possession back.

[Wobbler]

That's on a kickoff. I tweeted Glen Johnson last night about the play and he confirmed what Climie said that on a punt, the ball just has to cross the line of scrimmage, and if the kicking team recovers, it's their ball 1st and 10. Really stupid rule. Ball should have to go past the first down marker IMO. I replied to him and said that the rules committee really needs to review this.

Huh. I still have a lot to learn about the CFL.

I agree that the current rule is bad. My fix would be just to make the 10 yard requirement universal. That way, it *might* be worth trying on second and long situations to exploit a prevent. If the ball had to pass the first down marker the play would become virtually impossible and might as well be made illegal.

In the meantime, it'll be fun to see who can exploit this rule effectively. I doubt that Ottawa's failure will prevent someone (everyone?) else from giving it a shot.

[gilthethrill]

IMO it's stupid that when you need 21 yards for a first down that you can kick the ball 1 yard down field and recover for a first down. No issue with on side kicks, but the ball should at least have to go past the first down marker.

Agreed regarding getting less than the yardage required and being rewarded with a 1st down. Really, IMO, if you catch the pass and the ball hits the turf, is it not either a fumble or an incomplete pass? Also, if it was a punt, Ellingson was blocking down field before the kick, which is a penalty regardless.