Yes it's True...I've Jumped Ship

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Thumbs up Stevoman.

[PullTogether73]

Agreed, it's my choice of how I spend my hard earned money. I never said the team sent me to those Grey Cups. They were sponsored contests that I had to work hard to prove how big of an Argo fan I was...gather votes and so on. Nothing's been handed to me.



Again, never did I say all these were 'given' to me. I've worked hard, invested a lot of my time and money into this team. For about 10 seasons I took off one weeks vacation just to attend training camp. I built relationships with the players on a personal level that fueled my passion. None of the previous owners "knew" me. Nothing was handed to me. I probably own almost every piece of Argo merchandise form shirts to jackets to hats from the last 20 years.
What I'm saying is that when it all began I was 13 years old. These events and interactions with the players is what made me a fan. I feel like this is what the city needs to build a new fan base. Again, just my opinion.

Thanks for clarifying this.
My impression from your original post was that you were given trips and privileges, many of which the rest of us could not imagine receiving.
Putting in the effort you did to cultivate relationships with the team is impressive.

As others have said, the decision to leave is yours, and if you are unhappy with the situation you should possibly move on.
I don't believe in blindly supporting a team. While an emotional connection exists with a team and its fans, ultimately it is a business and fans should exercise their right to withdraw support.

As I said before, I think it is too early in a new ownership's tenure to move on. Fans wait through lean years of on-field performance. I think the same can be done for off-field performance, at least in the shorter term.


As for joining the Tiger-Cats...well, good luck with that.
I will NEVER do that.

At the Argos first game at THF last year, I was walking alone in the concourse, wearing my Argos jersey and hat. A father and son walk past me, hand in hand. Nice family image. The boy, who could be no more than 10 years old, says to me "Argos suck!" The father says nothing and they continue walking. Some 10 year old boy says this to a respectable looking 50 year old man and the father says nothing? Seriously?

At one of the displaced Argos games from last year at THF, I sat in one of the main sections in the lower level with Argos fans. I heard some young kid in the upper deck constantly yelling out "Argos suck!" as his dad sat there next to him. A few minutes later I hear the same kid doing the same thing, but this time only a few rows behind me. Incredible! This idiot man and his young son thought it would be a good idea to move into the middle of a crowd of Argo fans and do this. I turned around and glared at the kid for at least a full minute.
They wisely moved back to the upper deck before I took the issue further - which I would have.

Finally, I took my daughters to an Argos game at Ivor Wynne a few years ago. We had been to at least two previously. We ended up leaving at half time as my daughters didn't feel safe in that environment. My daughters enjoyed going to Argonauts games with me for several years as a family. That was the last time we have gone together to a game in Hamilton.

Last year was the last time I will attend a game in Hamilton, other than the Grey Cup in which the Argonauts are participating.
I have attended football games in Chicago (Bears, Northwestern University), Indiana (Notre Dame), and Buffalo (Bills). I have never seen opposing fans treated as poorly as I have seen Argos fans treated in Hamilton.

As I said, good luck supporting the Tiger-Cats. I'll be impressed if you can lower yourself to their fans' level.

[ArgoGabe22]

Maybe it's just me what is exactly so wrong with someone yelling "Argos Suck" during a Ticats home game? Try wearing an opposing jersey at a Bills game. You'll definitely hear a lot of worse.

[Neely2005]

Maybe it's just me what is exactly so wrong with someone yelling "Argos Suck" during a Ticats home game? Try wearing an opposing jersey at a Bills game. You'll definitely hear a lot of worse.

That doesn't make either right.

We stopped going to games in Hamilton too. It's just not a fun environment and we don't need to expose our kids to that boorish behavior.

[PullTogether73]

Maybe it's just me what is exactly so wrong with someone yelling "Argos Suck" during a Ticats home game? Try wearing an opposing jersey at a Bills game. You'll definitely hear a lot of worse.

Not my experience.
I attended Jets at Bills and Cardinals at Bills games this year. I never heard any real abuse directed at fans of the visiting team, even the few arrogant Cardinals fans who were preening and strutting during the early part of the game (before their team started losing badly!). I was sitting in the 100 level both times in case that makes a difference.

Btw, I never said there was anything wrong with someone yelling "Argos suck" during a Ti-Cats home game.
At a displaced Argos home game in Hamilton while sitting in the midst of a section full of Argo fans? Yah, that's just outright stupid and shows an effort to be confrontational.

[Antwon]

That doesn't make either right.

We stopped going to games in Hamilton too. It's just not a fun environment and we don't need to expose our kids to that boorish behavior.

Settle down with bashing TiCat fans! ALL teams in all leagues have some idiot fans, that are usually out numbered by good regular fans.
In the last month a Jays fan threw a beer can on the field of play, and a Bills fan tossed a dildo on the field.
I've been to TiCat games and seen idiot Hamilton fans and sat at Argo games and seen idiot Toronto fans.

[1971GreyCup]

ArgomANIA clearly there are a number of positive initiatives going on in Hamilton. I wish you all the best. Bob Young and his people are working hard and delivering a great fan experience. I am sure that you aren't the only fan in a hundred years to make the switch.

Funny, my father's family originated in Dunnville with Hamilton being the halfway point to Toronto. Even though it wasn't convenient, we've got four generations of Double Blue fans since WWI. It would be a seismic event to change allegiances. Ownership, management, coaching and players come and go. Times are good, bad and indifferent. Right now, the needle is somewhere between indifferent and bad.

We've got plenty of skin in the game and therefore we've decided to try and be part of the solution. We're just waiting to be asked what the Argos need from us to turn the corner. I suspect that after the Grey Cup, changes or enhancements are on the way. All of us, including current management and ownership agree, that status quo isn't going to cut it.

I've been going to Argos games in Hamilton since Theismann and it seems to me that the chant Argos Suck has got worse. My son definitely expanded his vocabulary starting at the age of nine. Having said that, the vast majority of fans are great. We overlook to outliers.

We've always used visits to CFL cities as learning experiences. My son, now 15, now knows himself much better as he can compare himself to people that live in a steelworker town, French speaking city and all those great western cities. We always try to be gracious hosts at home and appreciative guests on the road. My son has seen plenty of examples of both on the road.

[Will]

Re: the "Argos Suck" chant

I think it is one thing if it is just a general fan chant responding to something on the field, but totally different if someone is getting in your face about it. For the former, what are we supposed to do? We're in an away stadium, I don't expect people to sit there and not be hostile towards the opposing team. I think you do have a right to expect that an aggressive Ticat fan wouldn't get in YOUR face about it though.

[Antwon]

I respect your decision to bail on the team. It's your decision, money, and emotions.
As for me, I won't bail. Extremely frustrated, hell yes.
Argo fan since 82, but not a ST holder. Live too far out to make every game, and spend most of the summer up at the lake.
So the ST perks etc are not going to sway me. Fan days etc maybe. Flex pack at BMO in the future.


But the two biggest reasons IMO the Argos risk losing more die hard fans are:
-Competitive team
I know you can't win every game, and I know there are rebuilding years. But to play like turds for so many games kills interest big time.
It's become painful to watch SM coached teams, then hear the excuses after each loss.
It's a QB driven league and they need to find their own version of Reilly, Mitchell, Jennings. (SM takes full blame on our current QB mess)


-Connection to the team
The strong teams in the league are made up of players that have been with the team 1-3 years, 3-5 years, and 5+ years.
They keep that balanced properly and fans can identify and connect with them.
The Argos under JB seem to be made up of 80% 1-3 year players. And they cycle through so fast you don't know who's playing anymore.


I'm willing to be patient with the ownership and Copeland. They made two big mistakes when they took over. The Grey Cup in year one, and extending JB & SM for 3 years.
They were sold up the river on that one. JB & SM slapped ownership in the face with the product they put on the field this year.


So I'm taking a wait and see approach to next year. I'm a die hard but not blind!
The decisions in the coming weeks and months NEED to be the right decisions for the long run.

[Neely2005]

Settle down with bashing TiCat fans! ALL teams in all leagues have some idiot fans, that are usually out numbered by good regular fans.
In the last month a Jays fan threw a beer can on the field of play, and a Bills fan tossed a dildo on the field.
I've been to TiCat games and seen idiot Hamilton fans and sat at Argo games and seen idiot Toronto fans.

Where did I say that it was all Ticats fans?

We've had issues every single time that we've gone to an Argonauts game in Hamilton and wore Argonauts gear so we've decided that we won't go back.

[R.J]

As for joining the Tiger-Cats...well, good luck with that.
I will NEVER do that.

At the Argos first game at THF last year, I was walking alone in the concourse, wearing my Argos jersey and hat. A father and son walk past me, hand in hand. Nice family image. The boy, who could be no more than 10 years old, says to me "Argos suck!" The father says nothing and they continue walking. Some 10 year old boy says this to a respectable looking 50 year old man and the father says nothing? Seriously?

At one of the displaced Argos games from last year at THF, I sat in one of the main sections in the lower level with Argos fans. I heard some young kid in the upper deck constantly yelling out "Argos suck!" as his dad sat there next to him. A few minutes later I hear the same kid doing the same thing, but this time only a few rows behind me. Incredible! This idiot man and his young son thought it would be a good idea to move into the middle of a crowd of Argo fans and do this. I turned around and glared at the kid for at least a full minute.
They wisely moved back to the upper deck before I took the issue further - which I would have.

Finally, I took my daughters to an Argos game at Ivor Wynne a few years ago. We had been to at least two previously. We ended up leaving at half time as my daughters didn't feel safe in that environment. My daughters enjoyed going to Argonauts games with me for several years as a family. That was the last time we have gone together to a game in Hamilton.

Last year was the last time I will attend a game in Hamilton, other than the Grey Cup in which the Argonauts are participating.
I have attended football games in Chicago (Bears, Northwestern University), Indiana (Notre Dame), and Buffalo (Bills). I have never seen opposing fans treated as poorly as I have seen Argos fans treated in Hamilton.

As I said, good luck supporting the Tiger-Cats. I'll be impressed if you can lower yourself to their fans' level.

Argos suck is all it took, really ?

Makes sense now why you disagreed with Marshall Ferguson saying that the Ticats should be rated higher - biases can cloud judgement.

[R.J]

"Everyone knows you never go full blown Ticat! You went full blown Ticat, never go full blown Ticat."

ATM gag from Clerks 2 ?

[PullTogether73]

Re: the "Argos Suck" chant

I think it is one thing if it is just a general fan chant responding to something on the field, but totally different if someone is getting in your face about it. For the former, what are we supposed to do? We're in an away stadium, I don't expect people to sit there and not be hostile towards the opposing team. I think you do have a right to expect that an aggressive Ticat fan wouldn't get in YOUR face about it though.

Precisely.

Argos suck is all it took, really ?

Makes sense now why you disagreed with Marshall Ferguson saying that the Ticats should be rated higher - biases can cloud judgement.

It appears that you ignored my comment about the source of the jeers.
Two young kids saying it with the full acceptance of their respective fathers.
One said directly to me as I walked by minding my own business.
Speaks volumes to me about the (low) class of the fans.

And no, I give Hamilton commentators as much fair treatment as any others.
Ferguson is oppressively a homer.
That is his right, and HIS bias. But I cannot take his analyses seriously as a result.
Tatti is more balanced in his assessments imo.

[Neely2005]

ATM gag from Clerks 2 ?

Tropic Thunder, full retard.

[R.J]

Tropic Thunder, full retard.

Never saw it, as I loathe Ben Stiller.

[ArgoZ]

Funny, my father's family originated in Dunnville with Hamilton being the halfway point to Toronto. Even though it wasn't convenient, we've got four generations of Double Blue fans since WWI. It would be a seismic event to change allegiances. Ownership, management, coaching and players come and go. Times are good, bad and indifferent. Right now, the needle is somewhere between indifferent and bad.

We've got plenty of skin in the game and therefore we've decided to try and be part of the solution. We're just waiting to be asked what the Argos need from us to turn the corner. I suspect that after the Grey Cup, changes or enhancements are on the way. All of us, including current management and ownership agree, that status quo isn't going to cut it.

I have lived in Dunnville for the last 26 years. It's definitely Ti-Cats country. Growing up in the 90's, I thought I was the only Argonauts fan in town, as I'd proudly wore my Clemons jersey in highschool. I might even know your family in this small town, LOL. I've worked on many construction projects throughout Hamilton, some directly for the city and Tiger-Cats related. I used to have a very good vibe on the Cats, even though I disliked them. The "A" logo and double blue colours will always provide myself a connection to the team, which make it impossible to cease being a fan.

[ArgoGabe22]

What is the evidence that they don't support the Argonotes? Did they not give them tickets to each game, and a regular section to sit and play? What more should they be expected to do for them?

Organization favours the the drum squad, believes the fans prefer them too . Not only that, but the Argonotes aren't even invited to the Shipyard (formerly Double Blue Bash) for the Grey Cup.

[Argo57]

That doesn't make either right.

We stopped going to games in Hamilton too. It's just not a fun environment and we don't need to expose our kids to that boorish behavior.

With some (not all) Ticat fans you get the feeling that acting like an asshole is a badge of honour, but every teams got them.

[ArgoGabe22]

With some (not all) Ticat fans you get the feeling that acting like an asshole is a badge of honour.

But what if the Argos do in fact suck?

[Argo57]

But what if the Argos do in fact suck?

Say it ain't so!!