Fire Creehan immediately.

[AngeloV]

I'm still not convinced it's 100% personnel. They can use new guys at the half back and WILL positions, but I think the personnel not bad in the other 9 spots. It is almost as though the Argos give away what D they are in during the QB's pre snap reads. That (predictability) is coaching IMHO.

[larz-7]

Fire Creehan and promote Younger to acting DC.

Why not? It cannot get any worse, and this change in personnel may become the start of something good.

lets do it .

[ArgoGabe22]

D-Line seems to have no push whatsoever and when they do get pressure, they're a second too late. Also AK Owusu-Ansah looked lost today and a lot of guys just can't tackle. I'm not sure how much you can say that's due to schemes.

[larz-7]

D-Line seems to have no push whatsoever and when they do get pressure, they're a second too late. Also AK Owusu-Ansah looked lost today and a lot of guys just can't tackle. I'm not sure how much you can say that's due to schemes.

Perhaps frustration .i will give you tackling is bad way to often.When you line up on D pretty much the same way ever other play, everyone knows what you are up too.Its amazing we have as many sacks as we do,disguise this D abit and i think they would eat qbs

[Ron]

I was wary of Creehan's hiring as well. Can his defence work better with the likes of Muamba, Ball and Carter or do we need to send Creehan out the door also? I suspect that the scheme is a greater problem than the personnel but I really don't know for sure.

If he was coaching any other team ... you would be having zero doubt that it's all on him. He was utter crap before and sadly nothing has changed.

Milo was in a tough spot though considering when Burke left. Hard to find anyone decent at that time of year.

[D-Gap-Willie]

If he was coaching any other team ... you would be having zero doubt that it's all on him. He was utter crap before and sadly nothing has changed.

Milo was in a tough spot though considering when Burke left. Hard to find anyone decent at that time of year.

OK, so Creehan is not much good as DC. However, do you stop to think who he works for ? You say " Milo was in a tough spot" but why was Creehan hired initially ? do you think that his hiring was kept secret from Milanovitch. The Head Coach is the boss -- he is responsible for the mess, no matter whose incompetence creates it. Sorry, but I don't see Milanovitch firmly taking charge to change things, or at the very least trying to help Creehan. He may be a decent OC, but he is proving out to be a weak Head Coach now when a strong hand is need.

Milo, step up, face the problems and solve them - it's your buck !

[ArgoRavi]

If he was coaching any other team ... you would be having zero doubt that it's all on him. He was utter crap before and sadly nothing has changed.

Milo was in a tough spot though considering when Burke left. Hard to find anyone decent at that time of year.

Read between the lines, Ron. I am trying to be diplomatic regarding Creehan but I think you can see which way I am leaning.

[Johno27]

"If he was coaching any other team ... you would be having zero doubt that it's all on him. He was utter crap before and sadly nothing has changed.

Milo was in a tough spot though considering when Burke left. Hard to find anyone decent at that time of year."

Read between the lines, Ron. I am trying to be diplomatic regarding Creehan but I think you can see which way I am leaning.

FYI, the topic of Creehan's status and Burke's resignation came up during an interview between Justin Dunk and Drew Edwards and Arash Madani last week (3DownNation, Podcast, Ep. 11, https://soundcloud.com/3downnation).

Madani said: "They don’t like Casey Creehan there in Toronto…Tim Burke resigned a day or two after the draft …what I was told there is Barker did not like Burke’s draft evaluation, wanted him out of there…"

[shayman]

Are people seriously blaming Barker for the defense ?

Of course not! It's Chris Rudge's fault!

[AngeloV]

OK, so Creehan is not much good as DC. However, do you stop to think who he works for ? You say " Milo was in a tough spot" but why was Creehan hired initially ? do you think that his hiring was kept secret from Milanovitch. The Head Coach is the boss -- he is responsible for the mess, no matter whose incompetence creates it. Sorry, but I don't see Milanovitch firmly taking charge to change things, or at the very least trying to help Creehan. He may be a decent OC, but he is proving out to be a weak Head Coach now when a strong hand is need.

Milo, step up, face the problems and solve them - it's your buck !

He was hired initially by Burke. DC's usually hire some of their own positional coaches, and perhaps he is a good positional coach. I, personally think he gets, and deserves no respect from his players. If you ever go to practice, he's not hard to find. Nothing but degrading and loud 4 letter words directed towards his players.

It's definitely time to cut him loose. With the bye after Friday's game, it would be a perfect time. I don't see it happening before Friday.

[bigzee19]

If someone could just buy Creehan the new Madden game maybe our D has a chance at stopping the Cats on Friday. Maybe he hasn't gotten a new version for a few years.......Just saying

[R.J]

Fire Creehan and promote Younger to acting DC.

Why not? It cannot get any worse, and this change in personnel may become the start of something good.

Pete Kuharchek would be the guy I would pick if promoting from within, the only bright spot on the Andrus coaching staff.

[AngeloV]

Pete Kuharchek would be the guy I would pick if promoting from within, the only bright spot on the Andrus coaching staff.

I'd be good with that for the rest of the year. I don't think Younger has been a position coach long enough to deserve the promotion.

[R.J]

I'd be good with that for the rest of the year. I don't think Younger has been a position coach long enough to deserve the promotion.

Our defensive backfield has been horrid for awhile now. JY is the db coach, yet seems to be given a free pass around here and on top of that had a shout out for the DC job.

[paulwoods13]

I certainly wouldn't elevate Younger. If and when we replace Creehan, I want a DC with a track record. I personally think Chamblin would be good but I may be alone in that view. Not opposed to Kuharchek on an interim basis. O'Shea is probably going to be looking for work in the off-season and could be considered altho he has never been a DC and has been a poor HC, IMO.

[Argo]

Our defensive backfield has been horrid for awhile now. JY is the db coach, yet seems to be given a free pass around here and on top of that had a shout out for the DC job.

I don't dispute the contrary stance, although we don't know how Younger would manage this greater responsibility (and in a new context through addition by subtraction with Creehan's dismissal).

Steinauer, for example, made the transition and has done quite well.

[OV Argo]

Depends what you think the issue is, lack of talent or crappy defensive system.

A lot of both me thinks; but, a defence needs some continuity, experience playing together and veteran leadership. Barker must seem to think the "talent" he can find is so good you can just throw it together out there and it will be fine ??? : mostly rookie DBs out there with Gabriel and his 2 years of pro experience as the veteran leader of the secondary ??? = no wonder they are getting torched and worst in the league at giving up yards. Foley is the only real proven CFL/Canadian football vet on this D, and that might help but IMO it's not enough. Coulda signed a vet FA or two this off-season, particularly one for the D-backfield.

Combine lack of experience and leadership with a DC who is clueless = recipe for disaster and we saw it last game.

[R.J]

I certainly wouldn't elevate Younger. If and when we replace Creehan, I want a DC with a track record. I personally think Chamblin would be good but I may be alone in that view. Not opposed to Kuharchek on an interim basis. O'Shea is probably going to be looking for work in the off-season and could be considered altho he has never been a DC and has been a poor HC, IMO.

Chamblin took over the Riders defence around Labour Day weekend last season, in those 19 games (Reg seas + 1 playoff game ) until he was fired, the Sask D allow on average 30 points.
As you point out O'Shea has never been a DC, should be low on the list should Milo end up looking to hire shortly or in the off season.

I'm still not convinced it's 100% personnel. They can use new guys at the half back and WILL positions, but I think the personnel not bad in the other 9 spots. It is almost as though the Argos give away what D they are in during the QB's pre snap reads. That (predictability) is coaching IMHO.

Do you mean Sam ?
Greenwood has looked really good at WILL IMO.

I don't dispute the contrary stance, although we don't know how Younger would manage this greater responsibility (and in a new context through addition by subtraction with Creehan's dismissal).

Steinauer, for example, made the transition and has done quite well.

Steinauer took over from Chip Garber as interm DC of the Argonauts in 2011 and his defense was pretty crappy. Even his first year in Hamilton the D didn't look good, it started to really turn around midway through last season and seems to have gotten better this season. The point is these guys take time, thrusting Younger into the DC spot in his first year as a position coach in the CFL is probably not a good idea. Also Creehan's defence is atrocious and his zone defence makes all 3 corps of the D look worse than they probably are. However, the defensive backfield is the group that has looked the worst as of late and Younger is the guy in charge of that group.

[Argo57]

A lot of both me thinks; but, a defence needs some continuity, experience playing together and veteran leadership. Barker must seem to think the "talent" he can find is so good you can just throw it together out there and it will be fine ??? : mostly rookie DBs out there with Gabriel and his 2 years of pro experience as the veteran leader of the secondary ??? = no wonder they are getting torched and worst in the league at giving up yards. Foley is the only real proven CFL/Canadian football vet on this D, and that might help but IMO it's not enough. Coulda signed a vet FA or two this off-season, particularly one for the D-backfield.

Combine lack of experience and leadership with a DC who is clueless = recipe for disaster and we saw it last game.

Agreed OV.
Actually thought I heard Creehan yelling "ok guys were playing zone" from the sidelines yesterday!!
Creehan is a dumb ass, Cortez looked like an asshole chewing Creehan out on the Hamilton sideline in 2012, looking back Ol Georgie probably had a point.

[Argo57]

I don't dispute the contrary stance, although we don't know how Younger would manage this greater responsibility (and in a new context through addition by subtraction with Creehan's dismissal).

Steinauer, for example, made the transition and has done quite well.

Leave Younger where he is, great player but as a coach hasn't proven anything as of yet.
Sad part for Younger is he is the DB coach under a lousy DC.