Week 1: Hamilton TigerCats @ Toronto Argonauts, June 23, 2016 @ BMO FIELD Game Thread

[AngeloV]

Milanovich is basically a 500 coach. We want to see an improvement not the constant struggle. With big player turn over each year we see struggle. Tomorrow should tell us plenty about how we bounce back.

Every team in the league has high turnover. It's the nature of the league and it's contracts. That is why quite often, it's the team that is hot (and healthiest) at the end of the season that goes on to the Grey Cup.

[ArgoRavi]

Can we all pls remember that we have played ONE out of 18 games? In a league where preseason is very short and arguably too short to get players properly prepared? (And yes, I acknowledge that did not seem to be a problem for Hamilton last week -- but it arguably was for virtually every other team in at least one of three facets.) One game in -- one game where our defence was bad at the start of the game, and terrible when it mattered most -- and some are already complaining about our terrible offensive system. Man, tough crowd.

Ottawa and Hamilton were tough teams last year too, and in the end, we were all within a couple of points of each other, sweeping Ottawa and being swept by Hamilton. I understand the anxiety, but let's at least wait 4 of 5 games before concluding that this team and it's coaching and management stinks.

We were after all a dropped ball and lousy FG kicking away from beating Hamilton in the Eastern Semi last year. Don't know how that is the coaches fault.

Well said by both of you! It would be interesting to see the relationship between performance in Week 1 and performance in Week 18 and beyond over the past decade. I suspect that the relationship would not be a terribly strong one. Again, Edmonton looked horrible in Week 1 last year.

[paulwoods13]

Milanovich is basically a 500 coach. We want to see an improvement not the constant struggle. With big player turn over each year we see struggle. Tomorrow should tell us plenty about how we bounce back.

If Milanovich is basically a .500 coach, so is Kent Austin. Austin is 10-8, 9-9, 10-8 in Hamilton. Over the same period Milanovich is 11-7, 8-10, 10-8. Austin has won four playoff games and lost three over that span. Milanovich is 0-2. So overall records since 2013: Austin 33-28 (.541), Milanovich 29-27 (.518).

[R.J]

I think Stubler isn't getting the same response, because it's Stubler, one of the best defensive minds in the CFL and his record speaks for itself. Stubler is much better than Creehan and it's only week 2 (now) for him and his players - new system and some rookies. The problem with Milanovich is that it's always the same old with him - slow starts and checkdown heavy offense. Milanovich has been here since 2012; he's not new to the team or the majority of the players. His system has been the same essentially since the beginning and hasn't won a playoff game since the Grey Cup in 2012. It is only week 2 though, so patience is probably needed, but tbh I've lost all patience with Milanovich and his checkdown heavy offense.

As for who we could have had besides Milanovich - Benevides was available all of last season, and he could have brought in Chapdelaine to run the offense this season. Bene as HC, Chaps a OC, Stubs as DC and McDiarmid as ST coordinator would have been my selections.

[Reggiemac]

I wouldn't send Benevides for a loaf of bread. He never ever excelled at anything when he got the HC job in BC he was hired as Buono could coach through him and look where that went.chapdelaine on the other hand is an innovative offensive coordinator and you see his plays being run by all cfl teams .

[Rich]

I wonder what the tone will be if Harris has a stinker against Montreal tomorrow.

I think Montreal will shut down Harris on Thursday, and I'm thinking Ricky comes up roses on Thursday. Still, the near-term future at QB remains a concern.

[AngeloV]

I think Montreal will shut down Harris on Thursday, and I'm thinking Ricky comes up roses on Thursday. Still, the near-term future at QB remains a concern.

I agree. We still don't know for sure how the young guys will do if Ray goes down, but I for one was convinced Harris was not the future of the Argos. Good back up and insurance policy (Hey, he might be Kevin Glenn II), but he obviously had no interest in being the back up here.

[R.J]

Harris saw the writing on the wall when Milanvocih decided to start a less than 100% Ricky Ray (80% at best according to Ray) over Harris to end the season and lone playoff game. I still don't understand why Barker is blamed for Harris wanting to go elsewhere. I was never sold on Harris; although, I do think he can be an above average QB. In saying that how is the near term future a concern, but 2012, 13, 14, and 15 weren't ? What exactly did Collaros and Harris do before they got their starts ?

How about we wait and see what Kilgore and Fajardo can do before being concerned about it.

[paulwoods13]

How about we wait and see what Kilgore and Fajardo can do before being concerned about it.

Precisely.

[Rich]

It's not just the backups, I have doubts whether Ricky can deliver on a consistent basis anymore. But we will see.

[1argoholic]

No one had heard of Collaros and Harris before a few years back so I have faith that Kilgore and Fajardo will be ok if something happens to Ray. Toronto is the new CFL qb factory. haha. Never thought I'd ever say that.

[PullTogether73]

I wonder what the tone will be if Harris has a stinker against Montreal tomorrow.

I wonder what the tone will be if Harris plays lights out (again) this week against the Als.
He leads the league in TD passes and was chosen second star of the week in the CFL.
He played only 1.5 quarters last week.

[paulwoods13]

Harris is on pace to throw 139 TD passes this season. Gonna be awesome!

[ArgoGabe22]

I think Stubler isn't getting the same response, because it's Stubler, one of the best defensive minds in the CFL and his record speaks for itself. Stubler is much better than Creehan and it's only week 2 (now) for him and his players - new system and some rookies. The problem with Milanovich is that it's always the same old with him - slow starts and checkdown heavy offense. Milanovich has been here since 2012; he's not new to the team or the majority of the players. His system has been the same essentially since the beginning and hasn't won a playoff game since the Grey Cup in 2012. It is only week 2 though, so patience is probably needed, but tbh I've lost all patience with Milanovich and his checkdown heavy offense.

As for who we could have had besides Milanovich - Benevides was available all of last season, and he could have brought in Chapdelaine to run the offense this season. Bene as HC, Chaps a OC, Stubs as DC and McDiarmid as ST coordinator would have been my selections.

So you would've fired Milanovich at the end of last season? Interesting. I have heard that like Tedford, Benevedes lost control of the locker room.Also, Milanovich is well respected by his players and management. That's still pretty important in today's game.

[Argo]

I'm expecting a very good outing for Harris this week.

And yes Virginia, he did get the Ralph Wilson / Dumb Phillips / Rob Johnson blue plate special served to him before last season's playoff game (er, I mean debacle).

[AngeloV]

I'm expecting a very good outing for Harris this week.

And yes Virginia, he did get the Ralph Wilson / Dumb Phillips / Rob Johnson blue plate special served to him before last season's playoff game (er, I mean debacle).

Difference being, unlike Flutie that year in Buffalo, Harris looked totally lost in his last 2 starts prior to being replaced.

[Stevoman]

This thread just keeps on going!!!! And I think it's a great sign that people care about this team and were troubled by what we saw in week 1. It's a long season and no need to panic about anything but I think it's based primarily in that we don't know what we have. Will Ray rebound, not just from last week but to his winning form of 2012/13 and do we have anyone capable to start in his absence in case he doesn't? Great storylines for the season and especially even more poignant this week because the exact same issue is facing the Riders. We shall see.

[Argo57]

Every team in the league has high turnover. It's the nature of the league and it's contracts. That is why quite often, it's the team that is hot (and healthiest) at the end of the season that goes on to the Grey Cup.

Argos have had unusually high turnover, particularly on D since the Grey Cup championship.

[R.J]

Argos have had unusually high turnover, particularly on D since the Grey Cup championship.

Having 4 different defensive coordinators in 4 years hasn't helped in that department. Jones decided to rebuild after the 2012 Grey Cup, then left after 2013. Enter Burke who was only here for a year and liked smaller guys (opposite of Jones). Burke gets dumped and we're left with Creehan because he knew Burke's defence - we all know how that worked. Now we have Stubler; who likes vets. If Stubler can stick around for at least 3 years we should be fine, but there will always be some turnover - 25% was the norm IIRC.

[Rich]

Harris looked totally lost in his last 2 starts prior to being replaced.

Harris was no worse than any other Argo in those road "home" games. The team had absolutely no compete in those games, and I can't blame them one bit. Singling out Harris' bad performance in those games is unreasonable. Joe Montana could have played QB in those games and he would have sucked too.