Concerning tweets from Arash Madani

[Neely2005]

My interpretation is that Andrew just repeated Madanis comments. This article could have been written last year and the year before. He has commented that he doesn't have access to the financials.
I'm not sure the legs of the story are any different than before.

I know the Argos are not in a good situation .... I see it hasn't changed over the past years .... Maybe bad press is better than no press, but if you are wanting to promote the Argos, I personally don't like bad press especially when one knows the dynamics of the media and their relationships to the CFL around the GTA.

Yes for the most part he did just repeat the same comments. My point was that the story is being repeated in various places.

[ArgoRavi]

If you are happy with the way things are in Argoland good for you.

If I am not mistaken, DanoT is a B.C. Lions fan. I believe that Invader is too. There tends to be a somewhat more positive feeling among Lions fans, in general, towards Braley. You will certainly see some who believe that Braley is now holding the Lions back from further progress and that what progress that was made with that franchise was mostly due to Bob Ackles while other Lions fans will defend Braley to their death.

The reality is that the Lions were in dire straits by 2002 when Ackles came back to the team but he was able to rebuild their fan base rather impressively to a point where they had 24k season tickets and average attendance of 34k at the time of his death. Despite moving back to a refurbished B.C. Place, the Lions have seen their attendance and season ticket base drop significantly since Ackles' death to a point where they are now at just 15k season ticket holders in a Grey Cup-hosting year. I read a couple of weeks back that Grey Cup tickets aren't moving at as fast of a pace as we have grown accustomed to with still 11k tickets remaining.

While I am thankful for Braley stepping up and saving teams over the years, I think that the best thing for the league at this point would be for him to sell both of his teams as I do believe that he stands in the way of progress.

[Invader]

He may or may not pay "good money" to his CEO (any idea how good?) but the team has canned two important senior managers without replacing them, and allowed a third to walk, again without replacement. If you have evidence that any of those folks were "under-performing," I'd love to hear it (privately by PM since I'm sure you are sensible enough not to do so publicly). I'm asserting that two of the three, with whom I have worked directly, were not under-performing and were in fact doing their mightiest to help the team succeed despite being hamstrung by lack of money. As for "Mr. Braley owns the business and can run it the way he sees fit," sure that's true. But if running it the way he sees fit means running it into the ground, which some of us (and some media members other than Madani and Simmons) believe to be the case, then should we just sit back quietly and watch it happen?

Braley's other CFL team is a model of corporate consistency, with most senior staffers being with the team a decade or longer. The Lions are turning an annual profit and are regarded as a successful franchise. I'll bet the Lions pay their managers at least the CFL average and probably higher. I'd say Argo managers are also being paid market value but we should remember the Argos are a money-losing company. Most companies reward success not failure, so employee bonuses might be affected, for example.

It's unfortunate those 3 senior managers are no longer with the Argos but we don't really know the circumstances about why they left the organization. It could be more than just the owner being "cheap" or stupid. But staff can be replaced and perhaps some fresh marketing ideas might be beneficial for upcoming seasons.

We should also remember we're only hearing one side of the Braley/Argo/MLSE story, mostly from leaked innuendo by Rogers employees/media ...along with re-hashes from the Sun, Yahoo, etc. What is the real truth? We'll probably have to wait until the Argos sale finally unfolds, before we know the actual facts.

The Argos have been in continuous operation for 142 years. Have faith. Enjoy the games! In the end the Argos will have a new owner and a new football stadium to play in. I'll bet Braley will be revealed as not the cheapie franchise-destroyer that is being portrayed...and MLSE will be all smiles and back-slaps when the Argos finally join the fold!

[DanoT]

If I am not mistaken, DanoT is a B.C. Lions fan. I believe that Invader is too. There tends to be a somewhat more positive feeling among Lions fans, in general, towards Braley. You will certainly see some who believe that Braley is now holding the Lions back from further progress and that what progress that was made with that franchise was mostly due to Bob Ackles while other Lions fans will defend Braley to their death.

The reality is that the Lions were in dire straits by 2002 when Ackles came back to the team but he was able to rebuild their fan base rather impressively to a point where they had 24k season tickets and average attendance of 34k at the time of his death. Despite moving back to a refurbished B.C. Place, the Lions have seen their attendance and season ticket base drop signigicantly since Ackles' death to a point where they are now at just 15k season ticket holders in a Grey Cup-hosting year. I read a couple of weeks back that Grey Cup tickets aren't moving at as fast of a pace as we have grown accustomed to with still 11k tickets remaining.

While I am thankful for Braley stepping up and saving teams over the years, I think that the best thing for the league at this point would be for him to sell both of his teams as I do believe that he stands in the way of progress.

Yes, I am a Lions fan, so please tell me who are the people who you claim believe that Braley is holding the Lions back and what exactly is Braley doing to hold the Lions back? Sure Ackles did a great job reviving the Lions popularity, a much better job than the current management group, but how is Braley to blame for no longer having someone with Ackles unique talent on board?

Braley has a long history of not interfering with football operations, so other than refusing to spend $ that the Argos don't have what exactly is Braley doing to stand in the way of progress? Surely you don't mean that he should walk away from the Argos and let them fold or force the CFL to take over the franchise and let the rest of the teams prop up the Argos (other teams are against revenue sharing) instead of Braley doing it out of his own pocket.

[Neely2005]

Braley's other CFL team is a model of corporate consistency, with most senior staffers being with the team a decade or longer. The Lions are turning an annual profit and are regarded as a successful franchise. I'll bet the Lions pay their managers at least the CFL average and probably higher. I'd say Argo managers are also being paid market value but we should remember the Argos are a money-losing company. Most companies reward success not failure, so employee bonuses might be affected, for example.

It's unfortunate those 3 senior managers are no longer with the Argos but we don't really know the circumstances about why they left the organization. It could be more than just the owner being "cheap" or stupid. But staff can be replaced and perhaps some fresh marketing ideas might be beneficial for upcoming seasons.

We should also remember we're only hearing one side of the Braley/Argo/MLSE story, mostly from leaked innuendo by Rogers employees/media ...along with re-hashes from the Sun, Yahoo, etc. What is the real truth? We'll probably have to wait until the Argos sale finally unfolds, before we know the actual facts.

The Argos have been in continuous operation for 142 years. Have faith. Enjoy the games! In the end the Argos will have a new owner and a new football stadium to play in. I'll bet Braley will be revealed as not the cheapie franchise-destroyer that is being portrayed...and MLSE will be all smiles and back-slaps when the Argos finally join the fold!

But are they being replaced? It certainly doesn't sound like they are.

[Skinny G]

Here's TSN's article on this.. http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=460968

[Neely2005]

Yes, I am a Lions fan, so please tell me who are the people who you claim believe that Braley is hoding the Lions back and what exactly is Braley doing to hold the Lions back? Sure Ackles did a great job reviving the Lions popularity, a much better job than the current management group, but how is Braley to blame for no longer having someone with Ackles unique talent on board?

Braley has a long history of not interfering with football operations, so other than refusing to spend $ that the Argos don't have what exactly is Braley doing to stand in the way of progress? Surely you don't mean that he should walk away from the Argos and let them fold or force the CFL to take over the franchise and let the rest of the teams prop up the Argos (other teams are against revenue sharing) instead of Braley doing it out of his own pocket.

I can't comment on the Lions but I have spoken to a few Lions fans and they seem to reflect what ArgoRavi said in his Post (#42) above.

As to the Argonauts I go back and forth on Braley. It's great that he stepped up to buy the team when nobody else would and it's great that he's paying the bills but it's becoming obvious that he's not interested in seeing the team succeed. He's operating the team on a shoestring budget. We've lost coaches and front office staff. We've had 14 players on the IR and are cutting healthy bodies. We've had 4 different practice locations so far this season. It seems that the Lions are the team that Braley wants to be successful.

Earlier this year Braley had an opportunity to sell the team to MLSE at a profit but he got greedy and asked for half of all Future Grey Cup profits. Seriously, who in their right minds would agree to give profits to the old owner after they had bought the team?

Yes Braley is losing money on the Argonauts but he did make quite a hefty profit on the 2012 Grey Cup.

Here's TSN's article on this.. http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=460968

As I said, this story certainly seems to have legs or at least is gaining traction.

[Qman]

can't spend on the argos ... but this just Opened!
http://www.mohawkcollege.ca/athletic...ies/dbarc.html

.. maybe the argos can train there. this is bullsh*t!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

August 14, 2014
The $35 million David Braley Athletic and Recreation Centre is OPEN! This centre is part of the ongoing Fennell Campus Renewal Project.
The DBARC houses 3 gymnasiums, a fitness centre, multi-purpose studio, and an indoor track in more than 64,000 square feet of stunning, newly constructed space. The facility also includes a Booster Juice, outdoor basketball and beach volleyball courts and other common areas for socialization, as well as office and meeting space for students and staff.

[Neely2005]

Stephen Brunt and Marty York.

Rogers: Braley should just give the Argos away to nobody (who'd be a better owner than cheapie Braley who doesn't care about the CFL). How stupid of the Argos for take MLSE's offer to share their offices and practice field at Downsview (which wasn't completed on time, shame on the Argos), and that the Argos assistants C. Jones and M. O'Shea were hired as CFL head coaches (shame on the Argos who can't keep their assistants), blah, blah, blah.

Just consider the source of this Rogers vitriol before we jump on the "Argo-hate" bandwagon. Remember our forefathers used to burn witches at the stake, simply on the accusation of a sole witness.

The facts are Toronto would have no football team if Braley hadn't stepped up to buy the Argos and finance their operations. And that would suit Rogers and Madmani just fine.

So now it's not just the 'evil' Rogers it's also the 'almighty' TSN reporting it, here are Some of the key quotes from the TSN article:

Several veteran players and team staffers - who wish to remain anonymous - approached TSN in recent weeks to their concern and frustration over the negative affect the Argos' constant changing of facilities and cloudy ownership situation continue to have on the club. Players have also sent in photos of equipment stuffed in narrow hallways and around players trying to get treatment for injuries from the training staff.

"This whole thing is a joke," one veteran player told TSN.


While the team moved into a new, permanent facility at Downsview Park in North Toronto (shared with Toronto FC) last week, there was still unhappiness with the situation.
"Does it affect how we prepare (for games)? Yes," said another veteran player. "Do I think about it while I'm on the field, between plays? No. But it's always in the back of your mind."


The situation seems comparable to two years ago when a fire destroyed the Argonauts' facility at the University of Toronto's Mississauga campus and the team was forced to work in the school's classrooms along with neighbouring high school football fields. And that team went on to win the 100th Grey Cup that season.
"In 2012, we used our facilities - or lack of - as motivation to win a championship," added another player. "Now? Many of us are tired and frustrated. But what can we do?"


While the players say that trying to work around unpredictable locations and schedules without violating the 4 1/2 hour workday rule mandated in the league's collective bargaining agreement is tough, the CFL Players' Association told TSN that no complaints have been filed over excessive workdays or unfit working conditions.


The reason players have chosen to stay quiet appears to be the efforts of head coach Scott Milanovich and his coaching staff to maintain calm inside the locker rooms. And those efforts have not gone unnoticed. Players say that that Milanovich never complains about the team's situation, but simply brings a detailed plan to every practice and demands that his players perform.
"I can't imagine what Coach Scott is going through," said defensive back Jalil Carter prior to the Labour Day Classic in Hamilton. "He takes all that frustration onto himself. And we never see it. He just allows us to compete."


Milanovich declined to comment on Toronto's practice facilities or ownership situation. "I'm just trying to prepare our guys to win the East," he said flatly. "Our goal is to be one game away from the Grey Cup. That's it."

But not knowing the franchise's future is a disheartening distraction for the players. And off the field, team staffers are concerned about diminishing budgets and a diminishing workforce. The team has been without a head of ticket sales and corporate partnerships this season. And after the Argonauts' director of marketing resigned in August, team staff have said the team will effectively have no marketing department later this month.

By comparison, other CFL franchises have no fewer than two marketing directors - and in some cases, as many as six full-time marketing staffers.


On top of that, the team's lease at the Rogers Centre expires Dec. 31, 2017 and the Argos have not yet drawn more than 20,000 spectators to any of their four home games.


"I have no idea what is going on (with the ownership situation)," a veteran said. "I don't know who to blame."
One prominent Argo who's considering a contract extension says that while his connection with the current roster and coaching staff is important, he can't help but factor in the stress caused by the unpredictability with their practice facilities.


And that dithering has already hurt the Argos. CFL sources tell TSN that Toronto made a contract offer to re-sign free agent defensive back Pat Watkins in the off-season, but Eskimos head coach (and former Argos defensive coordinator) Chris Jones brought the CFL All-Star to Edmonton to show him the team's state-of-the-art fieldhouse near Commonwealth Stadium. After that, Watkins never returned the Argos' calls.
Jones also made sure that his new acquisition shared his Toronto experience with his new teammates.

"Coach Jones brought Pat and I up (in front of the team) to tell everyone where we had come from and the challenges we faced (with facilities) in Toronto," said Eskimos offensive lineman and former Argo Tony Washington. "He wanted the team to be thankful for what we have."

Even after the Argos' move to Downsview Park, it's still difficult for some in the organization to feel pleased. After the first week at the new facility, a team staffer told TSN that the new challenge is managing the Argos' work schedule - particularly washing equipment - around that of Toronto FC.
In July, the team announced a partnership with Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment to build training facilities. Some in the organization call them "modular buildings" - structures built off-site and then set down in Downsview Park. For others, they're simply called "trailers."


"Sometimes you have to remind yourself: This is a professional franchise," said one player. "It's frustrating."


More in the Link that was posted (#46) above by Skinny G...

He's already put in $1.5m according to the contract bids. I assuming its a coach who is bitching to AM ... so he should have got more involved in the planning and design of the facility.

Anyways, the point is with a commercial building its very easily and cheap to change layouts if its just walls.

I'm just curious how you change the walls on a Trailer?

"In July, the team announced a partnership with Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment to build training facilities. Some in the organization call them "modular buildings" - structures built off-site and then set down in Downsview Park. For others, they're simply called "trailers."

[ArgoRavi]

As I said, this story certainly seems to have legs or at least is gaining traction.

Braley has been the owner since 2010 and what has he done to fix this mess? If you are a veteran player and a free agent do you sign with the Argos or do you go somewhere else where you have professional working conditions as opposed to high school ones? If this ownership situation isn't fixed by the end of the calendar year, the Argos will likely lose Milanovich at least and will have trouble retaining and attracting free agents. And who is going to want to step into this mess and be the head coach? Bart Andrus again?

[Neely2005]

Braley has been the owner since 2010 and what has he done to fix this mess? If you are a veteran player and a free agent do you sign with the Argos or do you go somewhere else where you have professional working conditions as opposed to high school ones? If this ownership situation isn't fixed by the end of the calendar year, the Argos will likely lose Milanovich at least and will have trouble retaining and attracting free agents. And who is going to want to step into this mess and be the head coach? Bart Andrus again?

Yeah the article quotes Pat Watkins. He stopped returning the Argonauts calls after he toured Edmontons training facilities.

[Qman]

Here is another one.

Braley has donated $8m to training facilities at Mac and Mohawk last few years


Hamilton business leader donates $5-million to McMaster's athletics centre

Hamilton, ON - David Braley, a Hamilton businessman and the owner of the Canadian Football League’s B.C. Lions, has donated $5-million to McMaster University’s athletics and recreation centre. It is the second largest donation in Canadian varsity history, both of which have come to McMaster.

[paulwoods13]

But staff can be replaced and perhaps some fresh marketing ideas might be beneficial for upcoming seasons.

Let us know when any of the three senior people are replaced, and the org shows a willingness to pay for fresh marketing ideas. Until that happens, I'm sticking to the belief that no such money is being spent and no one is filling those roles.

Have faith. Enjoy the games!

Yeah, let's all just do that and stop worrying about the downward spiral of a business that is obvious to anyone paying even a modicum of attention.

[Qman]

Sorry, I'm so mad!

I'm not renewing my season tix next year. He can invest in state of the art university training facilities for $8m and can't invest in the Argos training.

F*ck This!

I will watch it on TV next year ... like everyone else !!

[Argocister]

Sorry, I'm so mad!

I'm not renewing my season tix next year. He can invest in state of the art university training facilities for $8m and can't invest in the Argos training.

F*ck This!

I will watch it on TV next year ... like everyone else !!

Perfect! one down not many more to go ...... its exactly what the rogers group would like.
definitely good for selling the franchise ..... not

I'm with Invader on this one.... we don't know the real situation, so I'm not going to contribute to the gossip and alienate other fans.
As you know, I am the positive fan .... and whining in our sorrows only makes a bigger puddle.
Solutions? ... number one is I would like this site to have a double blue football section and a double blue ownership/management section..... then I could stay away from the drama and the gossip. .... hate that stuff...

Second ... if you think not going to the games helps the Argos... sorry ... I don't believe that. ... I will still try and get as many people to go that I can.

Third... you donate money to where your heart is .... Braleys never was with the Argos, he was to be a bandaid .... thats lasted too long. Perhaps we could get Blackberry to invest ... or make the Argos a non-profit organization.

[Neely2005]

Perfect! one down not many more to go ...... its exactly what the rogers group would like.
definitely good for selling the franchise ..... not

I'm with Invader on this one.... we don't know the real situation, so I'm not going to contribute to the gossip and alienate other fans.
As you know, I am the positive fan .... and whining in our sorrows only makes a bigger puddle.
Solutions? ... number one is I would like this site to have a double blue football section and a double blue ownership/management section..... then I could stay away from the drama and the gossip. .... hate that stuff...

Second ... if you think not going to the games helps the Argos... sorry ... I don't believe that. ... I will still try and get as many people to go that I can.

Third... you donate money to where your heart is .... Braleys never was with the Argos, he was to be a bandaid .... thats lasted too long. Perhaps we could get Blackberry to invest ... or make the Argos a non-profit organization.

Did you read the entire TSN article? We have quotes from current and former Argonauts players both on and off the record so how is it just gossip?

It certainly sheds a lot of light on what is actually going on.

[ArgoGabe22]

I don't think anyone should be surprised. I'm actually glad that it is finally starting to come out. Many people know that Argos had trailers at UTM and that they became nomads since it burned down but I don't think everyone across the league or even across the Argos fan base knew just how bad it is. Now it seems that Downsview is not exactly what we all thought it would be.

When a former employee tweet this, you really wonder what is going on behind the scenes.

Braley gives the proverbial middle finger to the @TorontoArgos yet again --> http://t.co/y1qLUaC1ky Just go away, David. #Argos #CFL #35Mil

— Adam Orrico (@adamorrico) September 4, 2014

[Will]

The #CFL TV rightsholders are now writing about what's been being reported here for months: The #Argos are being run like the Glieberman's.

— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) September 4, 2014

Madani feels the need to take a potshot at TSN now as if his employer actually cares about the CFL and the Argos.

[ArgoRavi]

Perfect! one down not many more to go ...... its exactly what the rogers group would like.
definitely good for selling the franchise ..... not

I'm with Invader on this one.... we don't know the real situation, so I'm not going to contribute to the gossip and alienate other fans.
As you know, I am the positive fan .... and whining in our sorrows only makes a bigger puddle.
Solutions? ... number one is I would like this site to have a double blue football section and a double blue ownership/management section..... then I could stay away from the drama and the gossip. .... hate that stuff...

Second ... if you think not going to the games helps the Argos... sorry ... I don't believe that. ... I will still try and get as many people to go that I can.

Third... you donate money to where your heart is .... Braleys never was with the Argos, he was to be a bandaid .... thats lasted too long. Perhaps we could get Blackberry to invest ... or make the Argos a non-profit organization.

I hope that the negative media attention - and, frankly, it appears to be accurate - will spur the league and Braley to rectify this situation by the end of the calendar year at the very latest. Gary Lawless has a good piece in the Winnipeg Free Press about the Braley problem: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spo...273890611.html

[Qman]

I hope that the negative media attention - and, frankly, it appears to be accurate - will spur the league and Braley to rectify this situation by the end of the calendar year at the very latest. Gary Lawless has a good piece in the Winnipeg Free Press about the Braley problem: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spo...273890611.html

Agree. Fans have spoken with their wallets. Spoken with their butts. Now, only course of action is the shame him.
Lower your price and just sell now while Leiweke still their (given he was the biggest proponent)