GAME THREAD - Week 3: Toronto Argonauts @ Ottawa Redblacks

[Wobbler]

I admire Ottawa for trying a nutty trick play - but you've got to have a "plan B" in that situation. It's a good thing they seem determined to hand us this game.

[argos1873]

I admire Ottawa for trying a nutty trick play - but you've got to have a "plan B" in that situation. It's a good thing they seem determined to hand us this game.

There's no real plan b in that play. Once you try it, that's it. Sinopoli came close to retrieving the ball, but not close enough obviously. It's not something I would have tried fairly deep in my own end, but I guess that was the element of surprise they were hoping for. I really haven't seen that type of quick kick tried since I played high school football.

[gilthethrill]

There's no real plan b in that play. Once you try it, that's it. Sinopoli came close to retrieving the ball, but not close enough obviously. It's not something I would have tried fairly deep in my own end, but I guess that was the element of surprise they were hoping for. I really haven't seen that type of quick kick tried since I played high school football.

What a stupid rule. Time to remove that from the rulebook. What a Getty win. SJ Green is incredible. Ellingson was a big whiner out there tonight.

[Argo57]

What a stupid rule. Time to remove that from the rulebook. What a Getty win. SJ Green is incredible. Ellingson was a big whiner out there tonight.

"Ellington makes SJ Green type catches and SJ Green makes Ellington type catches" (Rod Black)

[argos1873]

What a stupid rule. Time to remove that from the rulebook.

How is it a stupid rule? Because the NFL doesn't do it?

Its football. You should be allowed to kick the ball. In the NFL that would be an illegal kick, because the "kicker" didn't kick the ball. There shouldn't be such a thing as a kicker, until that player kicks the ball. Don't try to contrive the rules like the NFL has to the point of the game no longer being football.

[gilthethrill]

How is it a stupid rule? Because the NFL doesn't do it?

Its football. You should be allowed to kick the ball. In the NFL that would be an illegal kick, because the "kicker" didn't kick the ball. There shouldn't be such a thing as a kicker, until that player kicks the ball. Don't try to contrive the rules like the NFL has to the point of the game no longer being football.

Why did you make the NFL comment?

[AngeloV]

How is it a stupid rule? Because the NFL doesn't do it?

Its football. You should be allowed to kick the ball. In the NFL that would be an illegal kick, because the "kicker" didn't kick the ball. There shouldn't be such a thing as a kicker, until that player kicks the ball. Don't try to contrive the rules like the NFL has to the point of the game no longer being football.

IMO it's stupid that when you need 21 yards for a first down that you can kick the ball 1 yard down field and recover for a first down. No issue with on side kicks, but the ball should at least have to go past the first down marker.

[Wobbler]

IMO it's stupid that when you need 21 yards for a first down that you can kick the ball 1 yard down field and recover for a first down. No issue with on side kicks, but the ball should at least have to go past the first down marker.

Wait, what? I thought all on-side kicks had to travel at least 10 yards.

[AngeloV]

Wait, what? I thought all on-side kicks had to travel at least 10 yards.

That's on a kickoff. I tweeted Glen Johnson last night about the play and he confirmed what Climie said that on a punt, the ball just has to cross the line of scrimmage, and if the kicking team recovers, it's their ball 1st and 10. Really stupid rule. Ball should have to go past the first down marker IMO. I replied to him and said that the rules committee really needs to review this.

[gilthethrill]

IMO it's stupid that when you need 21 yards for a first down that you can kick the ball 1 yard down field and recover for a first down. No issue with on side kicks, but the ball should at least have to go past the first down marker.

Agreed regarding getting less than the yardage required and being rewarded with a 1st down. Really, IMO, if you catch the pass and the ball hits the turf, is it not either a fumble or an incomplete pass? Also, if it was a punt, Ellingson was blocking down field before the kick, which is a penalty regardless.

[paulwoods13]

What a stupid rule. Time to remove that from the rulebook.

I have to disagree. It's one of the rules that make the CFL unique and unpredictable, like the kick-it-in/kick-it-out rule.

[gilthethrill]

I have to disagree. It's one of the rules that make the CFL unique and unpredictable, like the kick-it-in/kick-it-out rule.

I love the kick it in kick it out rule as well.

[1971GreyCup]

I love the kick it in kick it out rule as well.

We sat right behind the Argos last night and it was great to see how pumped up Lirim H. was when he ran out to the end zone for the last play of the game. 3-down football quirky rule. We love it!

[AngeloV]

We sat right behind the Argos last night and it was great to see how pumped up Lirim H. was when he ran out to the end zone for the last play of the game. 3-down football quirky rule. We love it!

Yeah, you and your son are a couple of camera hogs. Saw you on the TV a couple of times.

[Wobbler]

There's no real plan b in that play. Once you try it, that's it.

Sure there is. Sinopoli should have taken a look before kicking it, and just run the ball if there was an Argo within 15 yards who wasn't retreating. He wouldn't have gotten a first down, but they could still have punted.

[paulwoods13]

Sure there is. Sinopoli should have taken a look before kicking it, and just run the ball if there was an Argo within 15 yards who wasn't retreating. He wouldn't have gotten a first down, but they could still have punted.

It's funny -- we seldom see all 24 players on TV at once, but right before that snap, TSN showed a distant shot and it was clear that the Argos' back eight were all about 15 yards downfield in a sort of "prevent" look. I can totally see why Ott ran that play, because it almost certainly would have worked if Murray hadn't read it and reacted as well as he did.

[OV Argo]

Sure there is. Sinopoli should have taken a look before kicking it, and just run the ball if there was an Argo within 15 yards who wasn't retreating. He wouldn't have gotten a first down, but they could still have punted.

Exactly; and watching that play from where I was in the stadium, it looked like Sinopoli just fumbled the ball and it went off his foot; if you're going to try that play, the punt should be well down the field to make it worth your while, not a 4 yard dribbler - he could have easily run for more yards.

[Wobbler]

It's funny -- we seldom see all 24 players on TV at once, but right before that snap, TSN showed a distant shot and it was clear that the Argos' back eight were all about 15 yards downfield in a sort of "prevent" look. I can totally see why Ott ran that play, because it almost certainly would have worked if Murray hadn't read it and reacted as well as he did.

I don't think I saw that shot - my video stream was not very reliable yesterday. The isolation video made the play look like a complete no-hoper.

Exactly; and watching that play from where I was in the stadium, it looked like Sinopoli just fumbled the ball and it went off his foot; if you're going to try that play, the punt should be well down the field to make it worth your while, not a 4 yard dribbler - he could have easily run for more yards.

I think very few people understood what was happening while that play was running. The TV explanation was that the goal was to get a "free" first down by recovering a minimum-distance kick, OV, instead of trying to get the 20 yards.

[OV Argo]

I don't think I saw that shot - my video stream was not very reliable yesterday. The isolation video made the play look like a complete no-hoper.


I think very few people understood what was happening while that play was running. The TV explanation was that the goal was to get a "free" first down by recovering a minimum-distance kick, OV, instead of trying to get the 20 yards.

There's a reason, IMO, I guess, that "free" first down by recovering a punt play is rarely tried - very difficult to pull off, even if the ball only has to go one yard (is that the rule?) = only the punter would be able to recover it (unless other players are behind him, it would be no yards penalty?), and it's hard to control a kick like that so you can easily recover - most of the time you will be handing (er, kicking) the ball back to the opposition with just a few yards of field position gained.

The principle of kicking the ball in the Canadian football is different than in American ball - kicking/punting is a way of advancing the ball on the field - , and the rules should be respected and not changed for the sake of being more American. Single points are part of the game; and having the option to return the ball out of the end zone (either running or kicking it) is part of it too - the "reward for failure" argument is garbage by people who do not understand Canadian rules - you can be rewarded field position by kicking the ball, and you also can turn the ball over to the opposition that way. Old Argo fans may recall the infamous Harry Abofs punt return "kick" in the 71 GC - it was ruled he kicked the ball (could have been ruled accidental though?) out of bounds when he was trying to field a Stamps punt - he kicked it back to them by kicking it out of bounds and they got possession back.

[Wobbler]

The principle of kicking the ball in the Canadian football is different than in American ball - kicking/punting is a way of advancing the ball on the field - , and the rules should be respected and not changed for the sake of being more American.

There is some value in making the game reasonably accessible to American players and coaches, but I agree that *interesting* wrinkles shouldn't be ironed out. It would be fun to see this play emerge from obscurity to become an occasional element of the game.