August 1, 2014: Toronto Argonauts vs. Montreal Alouettes

[jerrym]

Otherwise, the defence was outstanding tonight.

No doubt the Argo defence played well but the big question in determining how well is whether the Montreal offence is really as bad as it looks.

[paulwoods13]

I noticed that too. I don't know why he isn't wrapping up ball carriers.

I actually thought this was Emry's best game, by far. He was far from perfect, but a lot better than he has been, IMO.

[ArgoRavi]

I have to admit that was one boring game and an UGLY win.
Against the better teams out west, we would have been hard pressed.

If you are expecting pretty wins with this many injuries on offence, you are being unreasonable. This is the way they are going to have to continue to win until they get some of their starters back.

[OV Argo]

What a terrible football game; the Als are just brutal on offence; not sure the Argos are that much better.

There's been a bunch of stinker games thus far this season - that might have been the worst. CFL good ole boy offensive "thinkers" are at it big time in terms of same old, predictable offensive game plans: mostly dink & dunk passing games with some bad QBing at times with all sorts of inaccurate passes or else drops by receivers; very little faith in an applied or consistent ground game; very little vertical or deep threat passing. Either that or there are some very good defences out there now = I don't think so - more like some decent to good defences feasting on clueless or talent-less offences. that are hampered by some real boring or dumb-@$$ offensive "coaching". NOT, IMO - much good football going on thus far this CFL season; but at least there could be some sort of "parity" going on this season i guess. Anybody can win any game it seems with ZERO real powerhouse team: the GC Champ Riders got smoked by an iffy Argo team; the undefeated Stumps could barely beat a useless Ticat outfit. Kudos i guess though to the Bummers and Schmoes for rising up from league worst types last season to best in the league types thus far this season (hey - led by ex-Argo coaches !).

[paulwoods13]

Montreal's quarterbacks are truly terrible but the Argo defence still deserves props for a very strong performance. Outstanding games by Gabriel, Laing, Smith and Whiteside. Anderson and Robinson were also very solid, and Okpalaugo also looked sharp. Even Harrell (who still looks way too small to be a useful DT) made a few plays.

The special team kick coverage was outstanding, especially Greg Jones and Ivan Brown. The punt returns were weak when Bradwell was in there but Gill did a nice job on a few kick returns. We are really missing Matt Black, who likely would have replaced Owens on punt returns. Haven't heard if he will be back when his six-game stint ends.

The offensive injuries are truly insane. Coombs is essentially irreplaceable, given that he is like a Durie clone. We clearly will have to keep it together with duct tape and pipe cleaners until we start getting some guys back. Fortunately we seem to have a good RB in Slaton -- we really need to work on developing a running attack to tide us over. I hope King comes back from his "leave" and gets back into the lineup, along with Rogers, Keeping, Holmes and VZ. I haven't liked the o-line much this year but that fivesome gives us the best chance to win, IMO.

Ricky is struggling right now. Obviously the plethora of new receivers is not helping but he seems a bit off and I suspect he might be playing through some sort of injury.

[argotom]

If you are expecting pretty wins with this many injuries on offence, you are being unreasonable. This is the way they are going to have to continue to win until they get some of their starters back.

Except with the injuries, there has to be a progression with the players that have taken over and frankly I have seen a regression.
Slaton to me was the only offensive player that stepped up.
RR and the rest, save and except the O line are not as they say on the same page.

[paulwoods13]

Who has regressed? Certainly not Mann. Fayson hasn't been around long enough to regress. Adams did not have a good game but most of the passes to him were behind him or in a difficult spot.

[argotom]

Who has regressed? Certainly not Mann. Fayson hasn't been around long enough to regress. Adams did not have a good game but most of the passes to him were behind him or in a difficult spot.

That I do agree with, RR was not sharp tonight.
A lot of the passes caught were behind including Slaton's 2 TD's.
Other incompletions were well short on the carpet.
Other then the Riders win, he has been well below his career standard and in fact below average.

[paulwoods13]

Other then the Riders win, he has been well below his career standard and in fact below average.

Oh, come on! The guy is still leading the league in passing yards and before tonight was completing 70% of his passes. If he is below average, then every other QB in the league is far, far below average. Which by definition would mean he is above average.

[jerrym]

Slaton not only had 100 yards but it was well balanced with 52 rushing and 48 receiving showing he is a dual threat and should remain the number 1 RB.
Mo Mann has played, IMO, his best two games as an Argo not simply because of the number of receptions or yardage but because he always seemed to be focused in the game, something that did not always happen in the past.
The loss of Coombs, especially with Durie out, leaves a big hole that will be obvious until at least one of them returns.

[OV Argo]

Oh, come on! The guy is still leading the league in passing yards and before tonight was completing 70% of his passes. If he is below average, then every other QB in the league is far, far below average. Which by definition would mean he is above average.

Ray, IMO, looks wayyyy off form this season; and sure, the injuries at receiver are a factor.

[paulwoods13]

Ray, IMO, looks wayyyy off form this season; and sure, the injuries at receiver are a factor.

I agree that he is out of sync, as I said above. But to suggest he is "below average" is plainly ridiculous. There are nine starting QBs in the league. The "average" QB would be the fifth-best, roughly speaking. Are there four QBs consistently, week after week, outplaying Ray? I haven't seen that. Reilly and Willy have had good starts but after that, who?

[argotom]

Oh, come on! The guy is still leading the league in passing yards and before tonight was completing 70% of his passes. If he is below average, then every other QB in the league is far, far below average. Which by definition would mean he is above average.

No no, these yards, save an except the Riders huge numbers, are not productive yards and are only good for personal stats.
Most are check downs, swing passes dunk and dinks as they say.
Great on the stats but not advancement or moving the sticks related.
Every team in the league knows the book is to put pressure on RR as he is a pocket passer.
So with the pressure put on with the linemen pinning their heads, the d backs are playing up front aggressive.
You did not see RR missing his targets quite a few time tonight, with the thrown balls not leading the receivers?

[Wobbler]

Ray may not have been genuinely sacked, but he certainly took some hits; I'd rate the OL's performance as "OK". Protection was adequate (against an opponent that was pretty demoralized by the second half), but we really can't run inside. We aren't very good at running outside either, mind you, but that's a different issue!

I agree with most of Paul's comments but I'm not quite as enthusiastic about Gabriel's performance. He did well overall, but at least once he seemed to give up on a blitz. Not in the sense of dropping back into coverage, but rather deciding that he probably wouldn't get to the QB and just... letting up early. He's (essentially) a rookie and will learn - I have little doubt that he'll be our safety for a long time.

[jerrym]

You did not see RR missing his targets quite a few time tonight, with the thrown balls not leading the receivers?

Ray has not been as sharp as usual this season but it seemed to me that he threw the ball into the ground more often than usual for a reason: on many of those plays nobody was open or he couldn't see them so he deliberately threw the ball into the ground just beyond the line of scrimmage to avoid a hit and penalty for grounding, not lose yardage due to a sack, and/or avoid throwing an interception.

[MEEZY]

No no, these yards, save an except the Riders huge numbers, are not productive yards and are only good for personal stats.
Most are check downs, swing passes dunk and dinks as they say.
Great on the stats but not advancement or moving the sticks related.
Every team in the league knows the book is to put pressure on RR as he is a pocket passer.
So with the pressure put on with the linemen pinning their heads, the d backs are playing up front aggressive.
You did not see RR missing his targets quite a few time tonight, with the thrown balls not leading the receivers?

Wow...are you kidding me?

Tom, let me give you an analogy.

I have no idea what you do for a living. But let's just improvise, shall we?

Most people work with a team or in a collaborative environment.

So let's say that you're a team leader. Let's say that all of the people working under you are inexperienced, incompetent, or lazy. Let's say that you're the most experienced and hardest working guy on the team.

How would you feel in that situation? No one did what you asked...you're frustrated...of course, your project results aren't going to be what you imagined.

That's what RR is facing. He is playing with ALL rookie or third-string receivers. He is receiving poor protection. His coach is making dumb playcalls.

How did you feel when Tillman practically handed the Argos Ray as a gift? Were you excited or were you in full-bashing mode back then?

Check downs, swing passes, and dink-and-dunk is what most QBs rely on. Feel free to name a QB you would rather have on this team. Willy? He's a raw rookie who would struggle mightily with NO first-line players and poor pass protection. Reilly? He can run but he can't pass. Maybe you want to bring Calvillo out of retirement?

Stop and think for a minute.

Oh, come on! The guy is still leading the league in passing yards and before tonight was completing 70% of his passes. If he is below average, then every other QB in the league is far, far below average. Which by definition would mean he is above average.

Well said, Paul.


And Tom, if you wanna talk about padding stats, Ray had poor stats tonight but got the ever-important "W".

So, clearly, a win is more important to him than "padding stats."

[larz-7]

Ray has not been as sharp as usual this season but it seemed to me that he threw the ball into the ground more often than usual for a reason: on many of those plays nobody was open or he couldn't see them so he deliberately threw the ball into the ground just beyond the line of scrimmage to avoid a hit and penalty for grounding, not lose yardage due to a sack, and/or avoid throwing an interception.

i agree Ray has not been as sharp this year and over his career we have seen this before .Ray needs a break and one of his his receivers come down with a catch that shouldn't of been caught.that and i saw a couple of plays from above as in on my tv and it seems most times he is in plan b.as his receivers are not there yet or open.

[argotom]

Wow...are you kidding me?

Tom, let me give you an analogy.

I have no idea what you do for a living. But let's just improvise, shall we?

Most people work with a team or in a collaborative environment.

So let's say that you're a team leader. Let's say that all of the people working under you are inexperienced, incompetent, or lazy. Let's say that you're the most experienced and hardest working guy on the team.

How would you feel in that situation? No one did what you asked...you're frustrated...of course, your project results aren't going to be what you imagined.

That's what RR is facing. He is playing with ALL rookie or third-string receivers. He is receiving poor protection. His coach is making dumb playcalls.

How did you feel when Tillman practically handed the Argos Ray as a gift? Were you excited or were you in full-bashing mode back then?

Check downs, swing passes, and dink-and-dunk is what most QBs rely on. Feel free to name a QB you would rather have on this team. Willy? He's a raw rookie who would struggle mightily with NO first-line players and poor pass protection. Reilly? He can run but he can't pass. Maybe you want to bring Calvillo out of retirement?

Stop and think for a minute.

Hold on a second, RR is a future hall of famer.
No question about it.
However, he is not having a good season or what some of us are expecting RR to be.
For me and there are others here also echoing the same thing.
Sure there are combination of reasons, but every team has to deal with injuries!
The QB is the face of the offense, you only have to look at the train wreck that is the Als.
The offense is only as good as their leader and especially in the CFL.
As for your other question, there are several and good for the league, young up and coming gunslingers.
Willy, Bo Levi, I like Reilly and there is Zach, any one of them I would take for the present and future.

[ArgoRavi]

Wow...are you kidding me?

Tom, let me give you an analogy.

I have no idea what you do for a living. But let's just improvise, shall we?

Most people work with a team or in a collaborative environment.

So let's say that you're a team leader. Let's say that all of the people working under you are inexperienced, incompetent, or lazy. Let's say that you're the most experienced and hardest working guy on the team.

How would you feel in that situation? No one did what you asked...you're frustrated...of course, your project results aren't going to be what you imagined.

That's what RR is facing. He is playing with ALL rookie or third-string receivers. He is receiving poor protection. His coach is making dumb playcalls.

How did you feel when Tillman practically handed the Argos Ray as a gift? Were you excited or were you in full-bashing mode back then?

Check downs, swing passes, and dink-and-dunk is what most QBs rely on. Feel free to name a QB you would rather have on this team. Willy? He's a raw rookie who would struggle mightily with NO first-line players and poor pass protection. Reilly? He can run but he can't pass. Maybe you want to bring Calvillo out of retirement?

Stop and think for a minute.

I think that argotom wants Zach Collaros to be the Argos' starting QB, Meezy.

but every team has to deal with injuries!

Yes, every team has to deal with injuries but no other team has had almost their entire starting receiving corps injured. I know that I am sounding like a broken record with this but to have to work with an almost entirely new receiving corps is an enormous challenge for even the best QBs.

[argotom]

Yes, every team has to deal with injuries but no other team has had almost their entire starting receiving corps injured. I know that I am sounding like a broken record with this but to have to work with an almost entirely new receiving corps is an enormous challenge for even the best QBs.

That's where the depth in the backups or lack thereof is the key.