New Stadium Locations

[paulwoods13]

The problem with BMO Field is for people that have to drive or take the TTC. Yes there is GO Train access (depending on the start & end time of the game and where you're coming from) if you're coming from the East or the West. However if you're coming from the North it's brutal to get to and the TTC access is a joke. I've taken the TTC to BMO Field for TFC Games and to the Exhibition Grounds for Marlies Games & for Concerts at the Molson Amphitheater and it's brutal. If you're lucky the TTC will run a few extra Streetcars into the Exhibition grounds but nowhere near enough and you end up literally having to fight to get on the Streetcar and then you're crammed in there like a sardine.

There's no site anywhere that is immune to traffic from all directions. If it's brutal to drive to BMO from the north (and I'm sure it is), it must also be brutal to drive to Rogers Centre from the north. Just as it can be brutal to drive to RC from the west (it certainly was on Friday night, at least) and from the east quite often. No matter where the stadium ends up, driving there will involve fighting traffic for anyone who does not live within a couple of kilometres. The point I've been trying to make is that at least downtown (or at the Ex), you have an option to get there -- from all directions -- that does not require you to drive in Toronto traffic. Anywhere outside the downtown core will eliminate that option for at least some paying customers. If the team can offset any losses from that group with gains from other customers, moving to the suburbs would be a good idea. If not, it won't be.

I don't disagree that the leg of the journey from subway to Ex can be unpleasant on crowded streetcars, but Argo fans put up with that for 30 years when the team played at the Ex.

Then there's the issues with the Stadium itself. It's like a poor mans version of the old Ivor Wynne, albeit newer and in better condition.

I think it's fairly certain (based on comments from Leiwecke) that the stadium is going to be renovated extensively, whether or not the Argos become a tenant or partner, so I don't think the current setup should be seen as what we'd be moving into.

As to a Stadium in the Suburbs if it's relativley close to Yonge Street and/or Highway 7 there will be excellent Transit options via the Viva High Speed Buses and the regular YRT Buses and you can take the Subway to Finch Station - and hopefully one day soon all the way to Highway 7. You can also take the Subway to Downsview and soon you'll be able to take it all the way into Vaughan.

There are no high-speed buses that I know of from west of the city or east of the city to the area you are speaking of. Someone living in Oakville, Burlington or Milton (and presumably Pickering/Oshawa/Whitby although I am not positive about that) would need to take GO train to Union, then subway to the stadium. A journey that would take 90 minutes or more from most locations. If GO ever adds a route that goes across the top of Toronto from the eastern and western suburbs, it would be a different story, but I think that's unlikely as there already seems to be a shortage of usable rails.

[argolio]

If GO ever adds a route that goes across the top of Toronto from the eastern and western suburbs, it would be a different story, but I think that's unlikely as there already seems to be a shortage of usable rails.

I don't think the issue is shortage of usable rails as much as no high concentrations of employment in the burbs, and certainly nothing approaching downtown. You only have to look at the Yonge subway line, which is over-capacity with 6-car trains running every 90-120 seconds, while Sheppard, a totally suburban line, is at or below capacity with 4-car trains running every 5 minutes.

[Neely2005]

There's no site anywhere that is immune to traffic from all directions. If it's brutal to drive to BMO from the north (and I'm sure it is), it must also be brutal to drive to Rogers Centre from the north. Just as it can be brutal to drive to RC from the west (it certainly was on Friday night, at least) and from the east quite often. No matter where the stadium ends up, driving there will involve fighting traffic for anyone who does not live within a couple of kilometres. The point I've been trying to make is that at least downtown (or at the Ex), you have an option to get there -- from all directions -- that does not require you to drive in Toronto traffic. Anywhere outside the downtown core will eliminate that option for at least some paying customers. If the team can offset any losses from that group with gains from other customers, moving to the suburbs would be a good idea. If not, it won't be.

I don't disagree that the leg of the journey from subway to Ex can be unpleasant on crowded streetcars, but Argo fans put up with that for 30 years when the team played at the Ex.



I think it's fairly certain (based on comments from Leiwecke) that the stadium is going to be renovated extensively, whether or not the Argos become a tenant or partner, so I don't think the current setup should be seen as what we'd be moving into.



There are no high-speed buses that I know of from west of the city or east of the city to the area you are speaking of. Someone living in Oakville, Burlington or Milton (and presumably Pickering/Oshawa/Whitby although I am not positive about that) would need to take GO train to Union, then subway to the stadium. A journey that would take 90 minutes or more from most locations. If GO ever adds a route that goes across the top of Toronto from the eastern and western suburbs, it would be a different story, but I think that's unlikely as there already seems to be a shortage of usable rails.

Surprisingly even though they're pretty close it's much easier to drive and park at/near the Rogers Centre from the North than it is to BMO Field. Wth the Rogers Centre you have the DVP, Gardiner, Lakeshore and City Streets. When driving to BMO Field it's not practical to use the Gardiner due to the lack of exits in the area. And there are much fewer parking options at BMO Field - especially when the CNE is on.

Yes hopefully they follow through with the improvements to BMO Field, especially the partial roof.

It's true that there aren't any high speed buses from that far out but if the stadium was located in Vaughan, Richmond Hill, Markham or even at Woodbine Racetrack it becomes Much easier to drive to due to the Highways - 401, 407, 404, 427, 409 and to a lesser extent the 410, 403, 50, 27 & 7.

The Highway options are just so much better in Vaughan, Richmond Hill, Markham and at Woodbine Racetrack.

BMO Field has limited highway options, limited transit options and limited parking options. It's pretty much the hardest location possible to get to, much worse than the Rogers Centre.

[shayman]

When driving to BMO Field it's not practical to use the Gardiner due to the lack of exits in the area. And there are much fewer parking options at BMO Field - especially when the CNE is on....

BMO Field has limited highway options, limited transit options and limited parking options. It's pretty much the hardest location possible to get to, much worse than the Rogers Centre.

I'm not sure I understand this argument. From the west, exit at Jameson and you're almost right there; from the east, (downtown) exit at Spadina and it's not THAT far.
Limited transit? GO Trains right at the door with half-hourly service east and west. From the GO perspective this is an ideal location. (I agree, TTC streetcar service could be better.)
Limited parking? It's surrounded by parking lots. The tailgate scene might actually be pretty good.

[Neely2005]

I'm not sure I understand this argument. From the west, exit at Jameson and you're almost right there; from the east, (downtown) exit at Spadina and it's not THAT far.
Limited transit? GO Trains right at the door with half-hourly service east and west. From the GO perspective this is an ideal location. (I agree, TTC streetcar service could be better.)
Limited parking? It's surrounded by parking lots. The tailgate scene might actually be pretty good.

The Jamieson exit either puts you onto Jamieson which is a 2 lane (Total) city street with on street parking or onto Lakeshore which means that you have to either exit onto Ontario which is also a 2 lane street (with 1 center turn lane) or onto Strahan which only has 1 Northbound lane. It's the same thing if you get off at Spadina.

Also the Dufferin Street bridge is closed for the next few years for construction.

The only GO line that services the Exhibition GO Station is the Lakeshore West line. The other lines all go into Union Station. Also it doesn't run every 30 minutes, especially on weekends. Yes it's surrounded by Small, Expensive parking lots that disappear during the CNE and the Indy race.

Try getting to BMO Field from the North or East or by TTC, it's brutal. It's really only accessible if you happen to live on the Lakeshore West GO Line.

[matchuk]

The only GO line that services the Exhibition GO Station is the Lakeshore West line. The other lines all go into Union Station. Also it doesn't run every 30 minutes, especially on weekends. Yes it's surrounded by Small, Expensive parking lots that disappear during the CNE and the Indy race.

the go train along lakeshore DOES run every thirty minutes/7 days a week as of this summer past

[shayman]

the go train along lakeshore DOES run every thirty minutes/7 days a week as of this summer past

And of course most of the Lakeshore East trains continue on through Union and become Lakeshore West trains. You have every-30-minute service to Exhibition GO station all the way from Hamilton to Oshawa.

BMO may have its faults, but lack of GO access is not one of them.

[Neely2005]

the go train along lakeshore DOES run every thirty minutes/7 days a week as of this summer past

And of course most of the Lakeshore East trains continue on through Union and become Lakeshore West trains. You have every-30-minute service to Exhibition GO station all the way from Hamilton to Oshawa.

BMO may have its faults, but lack of GO access is not one of them.

Then I guess I'm reading the schedule on the GO Transit website wrong because from what I can see it doesn't show 30 Minute Train service 7 days a week.

I'll take your word that the Lakeshore East trains go to BMO Field too but even still that means only 2 GO Train lines go to Exhibition Stadium and only the Lakeshore West line always goes directly there. Realistically anyone coming from 905 North (Vaughan, Richmond Hill, Markham, Aurora, Newmarket etc.) isn't going to be able to get to BMO Field via transit and anyone in the 416 is going to have a very difficult time getting there on TTC due to the limited streetcar access to BMO Field.