Argos shopping Arbuckle?

[Will]

That's what Justin Dunk claims.

I personally think it would be a stupid decision, but what do I know, I'm just a simple forum administrator.

[AngeloV]

That's what Justin Dunk claims.

I personally think it would be a stupid decision, but what do I know, I'm just a simple forum administrator.

I agree it would be a dumbass move. Rumours are what they are though, and more often than not turn out to be BS.

[paulwoods13]

I think it's pretty clear Dinwiddie trusts MBT the most. The fact he was not pulled at halftime was telling; he got pulled after a similarly lacklustre first half in week 2. And MBT rewarded Dinwiddie's faith, which would mean a ton to both the coach and the player.

Arbuckle being unsigned beyond this season, and MBT establishing himself as a reliable starter, and RD on record as really liking Pipkin -- all of those factors make trading Arbuckle at least worth considering. I doubt it will happen, and I still think Arbuckle will eventually be a very good starter in this league. But this is not as preposterous as it might have seemed a month ago. What if, for instance, the Argos could get Boateng and a first-round pick from Edmonton?

I wrote earlier this week, and I continue to believe, that MBT is going to be the East's nominee for MOP.

[Antwon]

I understand it from the football side of things. Arbuckle has been inconsistent with his throws and overall play. And injury prone as well.
MBT is a very serviceable QB and probably gives us the best change to win. But he too lacks accuracy on long throws as shown Monday with way too much air on a couple.
The bigger point is if they do in fact give up on Arbuckle and trade him. How do they ever think they will gain traction in the Toronto market? They brought Arbuckle in to be the QB of the future.(although MLSE is not marketing him, or the Argos in general) The player turnover contributes to the apathy IMO. Everyone knows who plays for the Leafs, Raptors, and Jays. As a long time Argo fan, I get tired of the turnover!

[AngeloV]

But he too lacks accuracy on long throws as shown Monday with way too much air on a couple.
!

I've never bought into this argument about MBT lacking accuracy on deep balls. Too much air under his passes? Both Gittens and Worthy had already caught the balls that they ended up dropping, as each had the ball in both hands and rotation had stopped. I'm sorry, but this is pro football. You need to be able to absorb a hit and hang on to the ball in these circumstances. Gittens had a break out game and I am so happy to see that, but he is 100% responsible for that incompletion as was Worthy on a sure TD. The fact of the matter is, MBT has been great this year. He has yet to have a real turnover all season. 2 point converts are not turnovers because it is not a change of possession until after the kickoff. No fumbles, no picks.

[Antwon]

I've never bought into this argument about MBT lacking accuracy on deep balls. Too much air under his passes? Both Gittens and Worthy had already caught the balls that they ended up dropping, as each had the ball in both hands and rotation had stopped. I'm sorry, but this is pro football. You need to be able to absorb a hit and hang on to the ball in these circumstances. Gittens had a break out game and I am so happy to see that, but he is 100% responsible for that incompletion as was Worthy on a sure TD. The fact of the matter is, MBT has been great this year. He has yet to have a real turnover all season. 2 point converts are not turnovers because it is not a change of possession until after the kickoff. No fumbles, no picks.

A different view of those two passes to Gittens and Worthy I guess. Watching the replays they were open, and had the ball came with a little more zip, the DB would not have had the time to recover and make the hit directly on the hands & ball. Gittens and Worthy would have had the extra second or two to secure the ball. But to your point, they need to more aggressive getting the ball if it's hanging up there.

As I said MBT gives us the best chance right now, and if he keeps playing like he did in the second half, he'd be a favourite for MOP.

[AngeloV]

A different view of those two passes to Gittens and Worthy I guess. Watching the replays they were open, and had the ball came with a little more zip, the DB would not have had the time to recover and make the hit directly on the hands & ball. Gittens and Worthy would have had the extra second or two to secure the ball. But to your point, they need to more aggressive getting the ball if it's hanging up there.

As I said MBT gives us the best chance right now, and if he keeps playing like he did in the second half, he'd be a favourite for MOP.

Don’t know how much QB you have played in your life, but the ball to Gittens from hash mark to wide side 30 yards down field is a 50+ yard throw. How much zip are you expecting? Again, pro receivers need to catch those balls and they would be the first to tell you that.

[AngeloV]

I wrote earlier this week, and I continue to believe, that MBT is going to be the East's nominee for MOP.

I think a QB starting only 10 games max, is going to be hard pressed to get MOP nomination. I believe if William Stanbeck gets even close to a 1,000 yard rushing season in a shortened season, he will get a unanimous vote from the writers.

[ArgoRavi]

I understand it from the football side of things. Arbuckle has been inconsistent with his throws and overall play. And injury prone as well.
MBT is a very serviceable QB and probably gives us the best change to win. But he too lacks accuracy on long throws as shown Monday with way too much air on a couple.
The bigger point is if they do in fact give up on Arbuckle and trade him. How do they ever think they will gain traction in the Toronto market? They brought Arbuckle in to be the QB of the future.(although MLSE is not marketing him, or the Argos in general) The player turnover contributes to the apathy IMO. Everyone knows who plays for the Leafs, Raptors, and Jays. As a long time Argo fan, I get tired of the turnover!

To be fair, turnover is pretty bad in every sport. The Leafs have kept their nucleus together okay but there has been lots of turnover on the Jays and Raptors. I believe the CFL can do better and was doing better regarding continuity 10 to 15 years ago but other sports leagues aren't that much better.

[Will]

Arbuckle has been a victim of circumstance because he suffered that hamstring injury in training camp, and seemingly reaggravated it against Saskatchewan. It definitely wasn't his performance in that game that caused him to be benched. The further circumstance is that Bethel-Thompson has come in and helped lead the team to three straight wins against divisional opponents that has placed Argos in the driver's seat in the east. But, once again wouldn't this be leaving Argos in the hands of another 30+ QB with no clear succession plan? I still believe Argos made the right decision keeping Ray over Collaros. I'm not sure I agreed with keeping Ray over Harris, but we no longer know where Trevor Harris' career is going at this stage. I won't bring up Cody Fajardo as I think many were surprised that he was able to put it together like he has. The Argos, of course, gambled on James Franklin which blew up in their face. I sincerely doubt the Argos will trade him and I certainly hope that Argos don't trade Arbuckle. It would be foolish IMO. I trust him much more than Pipkin to play meaningful minutes if it comes to that.

[paulwoods13]

I think a QB starting only 10 games max, is going to be hard pressed to get MOP nomination. I believe if William Stanbeck gets even close to a 1,000 yard rushing season in a shortened season, he will get a unanimous vote from the writers.

Possible, but he missed their last game, and teams will load up against the run with Shiltz at QB, I expect. On the other hand, Mtl gets Ott 2 or 3 more times, which potentially helps Stanback look good. Nonetheless, I am standing by my prediction. Five more games is plenty of time for MBT to establish himself as the best player in the East.

[paulwoods13]

But, once again wouldn't this be leaving Argos in the hands of another 30+ QB with no clear succession plan?

Sure, but even if Arbuckle were the undisputed No. 1 right now, we would have no clear succession plan since he is not signed beyond this year. And in addition to a couple of CFL teams likely looking for QBs next year, there is the USFL starting up again (supposedly, altho it does appear to have funding from Fox).

Altho MBT is 33, I don't think he has a lot of heavy miles on him; I could see him playing at a high level for at least another couple of years (if he stays healthy, but that caveat applies to anyone, really).

[OV Argo]

Don’t know how much QB you have played in your life, but the ball to Gittens from hash mark to wide side 30 yards down field is a 50+ yard throw. How much zip are you expecting? Again, pro receivers need to catch those balls and they would be the first to tell you that.

Don't know how much receiver you have played, but when a DB gets a running start to get his helmet or hands on the ball just as it arrives at the receiver's hands, it often pretty hard to hang-on to.

[AngeloV]

Don't know how much receiver you have played, but when a DB gets a running start to get his helmet or hands on the ball just as it arrives at the receiver's hands, it often pretty hard to hang-on to.

I know plenty of receivers that disagree with you. I’m sure if it was an American receiver you consider overrated you would have a different take so I won’t take your comment seriously.

[OV Argo]

I know plenty of receivers that disagree with you. I’m sure if it was an American receiver you consider overrated you would have a different take so I won’t take your comment seriously.

I get the notion that if a receiver can get his hands on the ball, he should catch it; not if the DB drives his helmet into the ball just as it arrives though = sometimes the DB deserves credit for a good play; if it was another team's QB other than MBT (who you defend at all costs - even thru some $hite play), you would have a different take maybe.

[Wobbler]

Don't know how much receiver you have played, but when a DB gets a running start to get his helmet or hands on the ball just as it arrives at the receiver's hands, it often pretty hard to hang-on to.

I don't know whether MBT should (or could) have released the ball earlier, or could have chucked it any harder without losing accuracy, or whether the receivers ran their routes at the wrong pace, but I wasn't surprised by either incompletion at the time. Rogers probably would have absorbed the hit and hauled those passes in, but KR/WR Worthy (177 lbs) and rookie Gittens (191 lbs) shouldn't be expected to make those grabs.

[OV Argo]

I don't know whether MBT should (or could) have released the ball earlier, or could have chucked it any harder without losing accuracy, or whether the receivers ran their routes at the wrong pace, but I wasn't surprised by either incompletion at the time. Rogers probably would have absorbed the hit and hauled those passes in, but KR/WR Worthy (177 lbs) and rookie Gittens (191 lbs) shouldn't be expected to make those grabs.

It wasn't the hit; it was direct, hard contact on the ball by the DB on the Gittens play.

[Stevoman]

I want both Arbuckle and MBT on the roster for next season. I think both are capable of being starters but they are both mature enough to wait their turn when not playing.

[AngeloV]

I want both Arbuckle and MBT on the roster for next season. I think both are capable of being starters but they are both mature enough to wait their turn when not playing.

That would be an ideal situation, but how much salary cap space would it take up? Chances are they both will be looking to be paid as starters.

[primetime31]

That would be an ideal situation, but how much salary cap space would it take up? Chances are they both will be looking to be paid as starters.

Then again, the Ticats have both Evans and Masoli under contract and both are paid as starters I believe. In fact, I had to make that fact clear to Ticats fans the other day when they questioned the Argos being over the cap.

Hopefully, the Argos will re-sign Arbuckle but it will depend on his salary.

As for MBT and his lack of "zip" in his passes, it was more of a ball placement than a lack of zip. For most of the passes broken up, most were thrown on the inside shoulder rather than the outside where it would have been much more difficult to break up. Against Montreal, MBT had the combination of zip and excellent placement on his passes. At least he was not overthrowing his passes like Arbuckle was against Saskatchewan.