September 3rd 2012: Toronto Argonauts vs. Hamilton Tiger-Cats

[T-Bone]

http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/tor.png vs. http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/ham.png

Week 10
Monday, September 3rd 2012 at 1:00pm ET.
Ivor Wynne. Hamilton, ON.

TV: TSN (http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/feature/?id=508)
TSN Mobile TV: Details Here (http://www.tsn.ca/mobiletv/)
Radio: TSN Radio 1050 (http://www.tsn.ca/radio/feature/?id=43622)
Audio Webcast: TSN Radio 1050 (http://www.tsn.ca/Toronto/listen/)

US Viewing:
TV: NBC Sports (http://www.argonauts.ca/article/100th-grey-cup-game-to-air-live-in-us-on-nbc-sports-network)
Video Webcast: ESPN3 (http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index/_/channel/espn3)

Depth Chart: Here (http://www.argonauts.ca/depthchart/list/team/7/year/2012)

Ticket Info: Here (http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?966-Argos-Labour-Day-Ticket-Offer-vs.-Hamilton‏&p=13977&viewfull=1#post13977)

[1argoholic]

Hopefully Ricky can rebound away from the dome that he sucks at. Winning on Labour Day is always a huge surprise when we do it so here's hoping. I'd like to see the overall Labour Day records.

We're 14-28-1 against both the Hamilton Tiger Cats and Wildcats overall. There are about 20 odd years that the teams didn't play a labour day game. I guess most of my bad memories of Labour Day comes from the early 70's to early 90's. We hardly ever one. We've done a bit better as of late.

[ArgoRavi]

Hopefully Ricky can rebound away from the dome that he sucks at. Winning on Labour Day is always a huge surprise when we do it so here's hoping. I'd like to see the overall Labour Day records.

We're 14-28-1 against both the Hamilton Tiger Cats and Wildcats overall. There are about 20 odd years that the teams didn't play a labour day game. I guess most of my bad memories of Labour Day comes from the early 70's to early 90's. We hardly ever one. We've done a bit better as of late.

I suspect that your cautious approach concerning expectations for the Argos comes from the 1970s and 1980-81 when everything that could go wrong did go wrong for this franchise. Am I correct, 1argoholic?

[ArgoGabe22]

Looks like Rambo, Mann and Bradwell were all getting a lot of reps (I think Durie may have been dinged up). Reinders didn't do much, he just watched a lot.

[1argoholic]

I guess when you start to see a pattern game after game it starts to bring back those bad memories. Every game this year we have bad issues pop up. Who could have seen Carroll have such a horrible game. Not just his pentalties but getting burned on that one handed grab along the sideline to Stamps. He had great coverage and did everything right but knock the ball away. I thought those penalty filled gams would be a thing of the past. Then our run game hit the skids. What surprises will be in store for Monday?

[gilthethrill]

I am not very optimistic about Monday...if we are not able to defeat an Edmonton team led by arguably the qb tandem in the league, how do we beat a team that has a hot vet in Burris...fully expect Hamiltons Swiss Cheese D to look like the Steel Curtain of the 70s......I hope I am wrong but I am still dismayed about Mondays outcome.

[1argoholic]

Hopefully Hamilton doesn't hit us with between the eyes with a Williams return. This little bugger is doing it weekly. We need to play a near perfect game.

[ArgoRavi]

I am not very optimistic about Monday...if we are not able to defeat an Edmonton team led by arguably the qb tandem in the league, how do we beat a team that has a hot vet in Burris...fully expect Hamiltons Swiss Cheese D to look like the Steel Curtain of the 70s......I hope I am wrong but I am still dismayed about Mondays outcome.

In all fairness, B.C. and a couple of other teams have also lost to Edmonton this year. The Esks may not have the most exciting QB duo or offence in the league but they don't have to with their defence and special teams.

[Wobbler]

Looks like Rambo, Mann and Bradwell were all getting a lot of reps (I think Durie may have been dinged up). Reinders didn't do much, he just watched a lot.
In his last press scrum, Milanovich mentioned that Mann was learning a new position; has he been practising as a slotback? One of the things I think we're missing is a big strong body inside, and Rambo would come closer to filling that role than Mann.

[ArgoRavi]

In his last press scrum, Milanovich mentioned that Mann was learning a new position; has he been practising as a slotback? One of the things I think we're missing is a big strong body inside, and Rambo would come closer to filling that role than Mann.

I am guessing that Mann is being looked at in Barnes' slotback spot given that they aren't going to replace Inman. Rambo might be a better option there but I believe that he is still a couple of weeks away from being ready to be activated (or so I have heard in some media outlets).

[Wobbler]

Barnes has lost his starting job. I felt certain of that after the last game, and Milanovich all but confirmed it (http://argonauts.ca/video/index/id/77923) yesterday. I think Rambo is better suited, physically, but starting Mann there on Monday makes sense. MM has been patient and has earned a shot.

[argos1873]

After such a shoddy performance last Monday, I bet the boys will be whipped into shape this Monday. I'm expecting an Argo win on Labour Day, but either way, I think this game will gauge how they do for the rest of the season. If they come out flat for this game, they probably won't do much this year. If you can't get up for this game, you probably aren't made of much.

[1argoholic]

I'd be very excited if we could come out of Hamilton with a win but we need to play well in all phases and coaching. I don't expect a win but having said that I'll still be pissed if we lose. Hard to judge what's going to happen after last week. We nned this because Ray hasn't been good at home and then we're off to BC for Sept 15th. The season could turn for the good or hit the skids. Montreal is now finding a groove.

[ArgoRavi]

The Argos have yet to lose two straight this season. In other words, they have always rebounded well after a loss so hopefully they will do the same on Monday.

[jerrym]

Barnes has been a bust. Its not just that he is not catching many balls, he seems to not even be in the game when he is playing. Time to give Mann and Rambo a chance.

[gilthethrill]

Wish the Argos had a beat writer like Drew Edwards covers Hamilton....nice article on the potential lineup changes on Defense for tomorrows game....looks like lots of areas to exploit.

The third and final day of Ticats practice before the Labour Day game on Monday and this is what I see:
• I think Brock Campbell will get the start at strong-side linebacker, filling in for the injured Markeith Knowlton and replacing Carlos Thomas, who's played there the last few weeks. Campbell is a rookie who has been with the team less than a month who is now being asked to play one of the toughest positions in the CFL: it requires both pass coverage skills and run-stopping ability and there is no equivalent in the American game: there's a reason that most of the players that line up there are veterans.
I asked Campbell about his thoughts on the position yesterday.

"It's been a tough transition but I've got some great coaches and some great veteran leaders.You just have so many checks – you have to line up based on formation, who is the backfield... you are constantly lining up on different guys, so there's a lot of different things you need to know.
I played free safety in a Tampa Two defence in college so I was in the box as a run defender quite a bit. But the game is different up here and it's taken some time to get used to."
• looks like the Ticats may be changing both their corners as well. Newcomer Nick Graham, signed this week after being released by Saskatchewan, took a lot of reps in Geoff Tisdale's spot on the short side and Chris Rwabukamba is getting starting reps on the wide side in place of Ryan Hinds. Import Craig Ray also getting some looks at safety but I still think Matt Bucknor starts there.
• so, to recap, the Ticats could have two new corners, a new starting wide side linebacker and Ricky Ray coming to town on Labour Day.
• on offence, it looks like Chevon Walker will be getting the start at tailback and that Avon Cobourne will be returning to the bench – I haven't seen him take an offensive snap yet today. Brandon Rutley was in on kickoff return so he may still be in the line up.
• Marwan Hage is back at centre.

[1argoholic]

I don't know how to post the depth chart but only a couple of tweeks. Looks like Bradwell will step in for Watt. Says Rambo as a second stringer at slot back 2 and Mann at wr but does that mean they'll be dressed. Last week showed Mann but he didn't dress.

[gilthethrill]

I don't know how to post the depth chart but only a couple of tweeks. Looks like Bradwell will step in for Watt. Says Rambo as a second stringer at slot back 2 and Mann at wr but does that mean they'll be dressed. Last week showed Mann but he didn't dress.

I looked at the chart but don't believe it. Barnes is shown as a starter, but I don't think that is the case. If you can 'holic, listen to the pre game show on TSN Radio on the internet, they go over the starting lineup...oh & funny story about Finn getting clocked outside Ivor Wynne... not that I condone that behaviour, but a story well told sir.

[jerrym]

• so, to recap, the Ticats could have two new corners, a new starting wide side linebacker and Ricky Ray coming to town on Labour Day.
• on offence, it looks like Chevon Walker will be getting the start at tailback and that Avon Cobourne will be returning to the bench – I haven't seen him take an offensive snap yet today. Brandon Rutley was in on kickoff return so he may still be in the line up.

If they start two new corners and a new wide side linebacker that should give Ray lots of opportunity to exploit their defence even if these are talented players because it takes time to fit into a defence, especially in these positions. Of course, this partly depends on our offensive line providing decent blocking, especially because I expect the Ticats to do a fair bit of blitzing to help the new personnel.

[ArgoRavi]

If they start two new corners and a new wide side linebacker that should give Ray lots of opportunity to exploit their defence even if these are talented players because it takes time to fit into a defence, especially in these positions. Of course, this partly depends on our offensive line providing decent blocking, especially because I expect the Ticats to do a fair bit of blitzing to help the new personnel.

I agree totally, Jerry. This should be a great opportunity for our offence tomorrow.

[ArgoGabe22]

Looks like Chandler Williams is out. Not even returning kicks. That must mean either Mann and Rambo will dress.

[ArgoRavi]

Looks like Chandler Williams is out. Not even returning kicks. That must mean either Mann and Rambo will dress.

I could see Mann in for Barnes and Rambo in for Williams. You are right that at least one of Mann and Rambo will play though.

[jerrym]

Same problems as before: No finish in red zone; Owens fumbling; and offensive line blocking. When new guys, like Mann and Rambo are brought into the game they need to get them the ball early to make them feel they are part of the team.

[1argoholic]

Jerrym your right same crap different game. They make teams look good. You can see by Foleys body language he's not happy. He just jogged back into coverage and let the receiver cut infront and make a catch. He's lost out there. Tackling and teams coverage issues again. You know just like with Gizmo against us Williams gets at least one return td a game on us. Owens as a returner is lacking this year because he's not rested enough playing every down at receiver. This team has too many issues.
I like Lee. When he's in the game things happen.

[jerrym]

Williams is killing us.

[jerrym]

Story of the game so far - Williams, Williams, Williams.

[1argoholic]

I can't even watch football anymore. I sit and comment at every stupid thing the Argos do,not yelling,not swearing and my wife still gets mad. I give the hell up. This team is not very good.

[jerrym]

I can't even watch football anymore. I sit and comment at every stupid thing the Argos do,not yelling,not swearing and my wife still gets mad. I give the hell up. This team is not very good.
Don't give up. Don't know if it will succeed but we are mounting a comeback. The Argos are still trying despite all their problems. Lets hang in there with them.

[jerrym]

Interception! Touchdown! I hope you are still watching 1argoholic.

[jerrym]

Field goal! Three down stop by defence! Owens on fire as he makes up for fumble with more than 150 yards receiving. Win!

[Nob]

I was surprised that they kicked the fg. But it was the winning kick.

Good team game again. Need another receiver to step up. Owens........wow. I never expected that he could be that good of a receiver, let alone the only receiver of threat on the team. Defense has made Burris look poor for the second time this season.

[1argoholic]

Holy crap!! The last 10 minutes they turned it on. All game up to that point was so frustrating and looked like crap. I loved the way they used everyone on those drives. Perhaps now they've found the proper combo. Rambo other than that one drop looked good for his first game in a long time. Bradwell and Watt had big plays. Kackert looked good and how about that catch by Owens, can you say highlight of the night. This is a HUGE game going forward. From looking dead in the water to coming back like that was impressive. If we can get our O on track like in that last 10 minutes we could be ok.
Big win boys!!!!

[jerrym]

402 total yards by Owens - third all-time in CFL history!

[jerrym]

Glad to see you kept watching, 1argoholic. You don't get many chances to see a comeback win like this.

[anthonyrussell]

Can't beat a good, tight local derby for the labour day classic!

[DanTheFan]

Damn that game got me PUMPED!!! It's amazing what a difference one quarter makes. Owens can be incredibly frustrating with his fumbles, but he always finds a way to impress. That one-hander was SICK!

[jerrym]

Watts had six receptions for 61 yards and Bradwell also had 6 receptions for 45 yards. Hopefully this is a sign that our Canadian receivers are starting to develop into non-imports capable of being respectable first stringers.

[294life]

Eighth time I go to Ever Whine and I see the cats lose for the first time. I guess saying hi to Jim Saturday night brought you luck.

[DanTheFan]

Watts had six receptions for 61 yards and Bradwell also had 6 receptions for 45 yards. Hopefully this is a sign that our Canadian receivers are starting to develop into non-imports capable of being respectable first stringers.

I was certainly surprised to see Bradwell in the action so much.

[ArgoGabe22]

Survived my first LDC. Nothing even happened to me I was so surprised after hearing all these stories, wasn't even told Argos suck. Maybe because we won I don't know?

Only thing that was annoying is that the whole stadium (well at least my section) can't just sit and watch and have to leave their seats all game long.

[1argoholic]

Lots of booze runs followed by can runs at Ivor Wynne.

[Stevoman]

Obviously I'm happy with the win and especially for Carroll after such a bad game last week, but unless our Offence can learn to score more than 2 TD's per game we're not going to be able to go that far. I know everyone is still getting acclimated to the system, but I'm hoping it doesn't take until next season to see the Argos playing consistent offence. I'd love to see a whole game like the final 10 minutes from our O. Game balls to Owens and Carroll.

[AngeloV]

Obviously I'm happy with the win and especially for Carroll after such a bad game last week, but unless our Offence can learn to score more than 2 TD's per game we're not going to be able to go that far. I know everyone is still getting acclimated to the system, but I'm hoping it doesn't take until next season to see the Argos playing consistent offence. I'd love to see a whole game like the final 10 minutes from our O. Game balls to Owens and Carroll.

The only problem IMO with this offence has been the o-line. Other than the few drops today, all of Ray's incomplete passes were the result of pressures. That is the main reason that the team has not gone as deep as often as many would prefer. If they can ever get that o-line going, look out.

[Will]

I'll give my thoughts later, but for now I say that winning on Labour Day is beautiful. It was a fun time at Ivor Wynne.

[1argoholic]

I was pissy most of the game as they looked boring and pretty horrible and lame. Some how the last ten minutes was like flipping a switch and Ray was able to spread the ball around and move it well. Great pick by Carroll and they guys got wheels to outrun Williams. I'm ready for next Sat.

[Wobbler]

Maybe I haven't been paying attention, but I haven't seen any locker room video as revealing as this TSN clip from today (http://watch.tsn.ca/cfl-news-and-highlights/clip752720#clip752720). It is great to see Milanovich, Ray, Owens, Waters, and Carroll interacting in such a positive way. I'm very encouraged.

[1argoholic]

Oh that was a great clip!

[jerrym]

This video really is the polar opposite of the TSN video of Tim Burke's before game speech in the Winnipeg-Saskatchewan match, shown on TV during the game. I don't believe coaches have to give rah-rah speeches but Burke's voice trailed off as he continued to talk and no one else said anything or showed the slightest emotion. At that point I suspected Winnipeg was in trouble; I just didn't know it was 52-0 trouble. Winnipeg may turn around and Burke is a fine assistant coach and may turn out to be a good head coach, but this team needs to get some energy. Quite a contrast with the Argos' video.

[ArgoRavi]

Obviously I'm happy with the win and especially for Carroll after such a bad game last week, but unless our Offence can learn to score more than 2 TD's per game we're not going to be able to go that far. I know everyone is still getting acclimated to the system, but I'm hoping it doesn't take until next season to see the Argos playing consistent offence. I'd love to see a whole game like the final 10 minutes from our O. Game balls to Owens and Carroll.

I feel like the offence isn't that far away. The last few years, we couldn't score TDs because we couldn't move the ball. At least the second issue has been fixed as we have moved the ball pretty well most games this year. Hopefully, the TDs will soon come. Also, as Angelo said, solidifying our offensive line would make a big difference. They were better today as Hamilton's pressure tended to come from blitzing more than anything else IMO but hopefully we can soon settle on the five offensive linemen whom we want starting and they can gel into a solid unit.

[paulwoods13]

Nice to see big Reinders on the sideline (along with St. Pierre -- no sign of CGM). If Reinders can get the offence learned, I think there is an excellent chance he will be starting at RG before long.

[gilthethrill]

Due to employment & family committments, I was not able to watch the game until 9pm. I had intentions of watching the Calgary/Edmonton game after, but I was so emotionaly exhausted, I was unable to.
We score points against a D that gives them up. I posted earlier in the week that Hamilton's D would look great, but Ray & Co proved me wrong.
I did not know much about Brandon Isaac prior to coming to the Argos, but I love how he plays. Very physical along with rookie Marcus Ball. I think Carroll can put away his garbage bag.
Spencer Watt looked good on the short side, who ever played the wideside was invisible & should be cut....lets hope we can put together another win on Saturday & bury the Ti-Cats.

I hope the hot water worked in the visitors dressing room after the game.

[argomANIA]

I was surprised that they kicked the fg. But it was the winning kick.

Really? You'd risk trying for a first down and fumbling the ball...or getting stopped? I thought the field goal was a no brainer. Get the points!

[paulwoods13]

Really? You'd risk trying for a first down and fumbling the ball...or getting stopped? I thought the field goal was a no brainer. Get the points!

Agreed. You have to take the points there -- fail to get the FD and the other team has huge momentum from the stop.

[Will]

Yeah, kicking the FG made the most sense. You were well within Swayze's range at that point and there were 26 seconds on the clock. You got to kick it in that case.

[294life]

Only thing that was annoying is that the whole stadium (well at least my section) can't just sit and watch and have to leave their seats all game long.

Same for me in section 22. I'm actually glad that crap heap is getting demolished. Hope they make something more decent for 2014. Thanks again argos for making me witness a ticat loss at Ivor Wynne for the first time.

[Will]

Same for me in section 22. I'm actually glad that crap heap is getting demolished. Hope they make something more decent for 2014. Thanks again argos for making me witness a ticat loss at Ivor Wynne for the first time.

While it may not have many of the amenities of a modern stadium, the sight lines alone give it extra points in my book.

It was a very good game to attend especially because the Argos won. That was the first victory I had seen by the Argos at Ivor Wynne since the Week 1 victory in 2009 where we all probably thought Bart Andrus was a genius after :). I arrived at the tailgate lot at Scott Park by 6:00 am and was the fourth or fifth car in the place. The lights are left on overnight at Ivor Wynne for reasons I do not understand. I enjoyed the day with Ticat and Argo fans having Bailey's French Toast and Sausages. The proceeds from the sale went to local cancer research in Hamilton. The highlight was Ania and Mulder's wife selling Ticats scarves that CFL Fans Fight Cancer was commissioned to sell. Yes, the Argo fans were selling the Ticats scarves for them, but that's what makes it so great.

As for the game, I was getting very frustrated by the third quarter. It was apparent that the ball wasn't going to move with Ricky on his back the entire game because of the offensive line. Hamilton did send plenty of blitzes to be true, but it didn't make the frustration any less. To that point it simply seemed like a typical Labour Day Game where there seems to be some mystical, supernatural force (yes I'm wearing the antenna) that makes things go Hamilton's way from the Chris Williams' TD to Owens fumbling or simply the fact that a maligned Ticats D was effective against our offense. I have to give credit to the defense in the third quarter particularly for keeping the Ticats from building up a bigger lead. We also got some pressure on Burris and Ball had 2 sacks I believe. As bad as Chris Williams burned us on punt returns, the defense did a good job containing him to just 1 catch (albeit for 52 yards). In fact, the pass defense was pretty good as Burris went only 13 of 30 for 218 yards with two picks so great job there! I would've thought with the yards that the Argos were giving on the ground to Walker that the passing game would've opened up for the Ticats. Walker actually tripped a few times that prevented him from gaining more yardage on a play, but he wasn't as much of a factor in the second half I noticed so adjustments must've been made at halftime. I'm happy for Ahmad Carroll to have got that pick-six. Despite his game against Edmonton he'd been pretty good the rest of the year and that TD brought all of the Argo fans in Section 25 to our feet.

Watt and Bradwell stepped it up a bit today with the injury to Durie. Isn't it a coincidence that Ricky Ray had (I think) his second highest yardage output of the season while getting Watt involved? I think he does have something to contribute to this team, it is just a matter of getting the pieces in place. BTW, how did our receiving corps shape up yesterday? I mean who were the personnel on the field. Inman had another nice catch, but was relatively quiet overall and Mann and Rambo showed a bit of rust. But, Chad Owens continues to impress as a receiver, he's already passed his 2011 output and that one-handed catch was beautiful. Kackert didn't get a ton of touches, but was good when he did. The o-line played three bad quarters, but I thought played better in the fourth quarter when it had to.

[1argoholic]

It sure does seem like they found the proper combo as Barker suggested they'd have to do in that last ten minutes. I can't believe that Ray completed passes to seven different players. They have to bottle that last ten minutes and open it up on the first series next week.

[Nob]

I still would have thought about going for it on third down. The distance was less than a foot. The way that Jackson runs the sneak it is pretty automatic. I think where they were Jackson getting the first down was more of a given than Waters making the fg.

Now, in saying that, the only benefit of running the short yardage offence out there for two more plays would have been about 2 yards, and/or a better line at the fg. Of course my other thinking was that it would kill the final 26 seconds.

Killing the clock down to zero was my bigger concern.

[AngeloV]

I still would have thought about going for it on third down. The distance was less than a foot. The way that Jackson runs the sneak it is pretty automatic. I think where they were Jackson getting the first down was more of a given than Waters making the fg.

Now, in saying that, the only benefit of running the short yardage offence out there for two more plays would have been about 2 yards, and/or a better line at the fg. Of course my other thinking was that it would kill the final 26 seconds.

Killing the clock down to zero was my bigger concern.

You're not alone. I was thinking the exact same thing. And it's not like Waters was having a great game kicking FG's. I was thinking , get the first down, then run 1 more play to put the ball in front of the posts, then kick on the last play leaving them no time.

[Fungi]

The only problem IMO with this offence has been the o-line. Other than the few drops today, all of Ray's incomplete passes were the result of pressures. That is the main reason that the team has not gone as deep as often as many would prefer. If they can ever get that o-line going, look out.
I totally agree with this.
That beeing said...why wait...go deep.
It`s the freakin`100th yr of the Grey Cup.
Let`s go CrazyIf you can find a link for this song....

[ArgoRavi]

I still would have thought about going for it on third down. The distance was less than a foot. The way that Jackson runs the sneak it is pretty automatic. I think where they were Jackson getting the first down was more of a given than Waters making the fg.

Now, in saying that, the only benefit of running the short yardage offence out there for two more plays would have been about 2 yards, and/or a better line at the fg. Of course my other thinking was that it would kill the final 26 seconds.

Killing the clock down to zero was my bigger concern.


You're not alone. I was thinking the exact same thing. And it's not like Waters was having a great game kicking FG's. I was thinking , get the first down, then run 1 more play to put the ball in front of the posts, then kick on the last play leaving them no time.

I was thinking the same as the two of you. Milanovich said after the game that he thought about going for it but had to have faith that the defence would hold for the final 26 seconds.