Let me get this our of the way now.....

[AngeloV]

Ray Sucks...he throws short too much and only cares about his stats.
Owens fumbles too much...
Spencer Watt is useless....
Ahmad Carroll should be cut...
Milanovich is a moron..
The Argos don't run enough...

Now did I miss anything???

[1argoholic]

I take it your being a smart ass?haha. I might have said some of that before the the last 10 minutes of the game when the O somehow started to click. I was commenting on how crap things were going and my wife was sick of listening to me say it's over. All of a sudden they spread the ball all over the field, drive it well and bam, a win.
I have no issues with Owens as he handles the ball 80% of the friggin time. He tries so hard that his fumbles come while he's fighting like hell for extra yards. Watt had some nice catches and Ray really picked it up late. Milanovich finally called some nice plays spreading the ball everywhere. Carroll has wheels to pick it and outrun Williams. Hopefully they learned a ton from this win and especially the last 10 minutes. THIS WAS HUGE!!!! Biggest win of the year by far.

[OV Argo]

Ray Sucks...he throws short too much and only cares about his stats.
Owens fumbles too much...
Spencer Watt is useless....
Ahmad Carroll should be cut...
Milanovich is a moron..
The Argos don't run enough...

Now did I miss anything???

NO! - you are bang-on and the Argos should hire you as an offensive coach, or at least minister of propaganda - nothing this team does is deserving of any scrutiny.

Great Labour Day win though; sometimes comes down to a few big plays or a couple of key drives. That Carroll pick for a TD was key - taking advantage of Bad Hank; and Ray and that dink & dunk, underneath, check-down passing game came thru late in the game - nice job spreading the ball around to all receivers ; still think they have to get wayyyy more vertical passing game going, plus some more faith in the run game, but the limited offence worked late - at least against that iffy Ticats D - might be a tough sell against any good CFL D though.

Arrrrrrrrrrgoooos !!!

[Nob]

It was a great win, and a terrific comeback, but let's not go crazy again. The Ticats defense is brutal. The only thing that offset the brutal Ticats defense is the Argos porous OL. If the Argos could protect the pocket then they would be so much better.

I love what Jones is doing with the defense.

Ray was a veteran presence that the Argos haven't had since Flutie (and yes, I recall the Damon Allen days too).

[AngeloV]

It was a great win, and a terrific comeback, but let's not go crazy again.


That is my point. After last weeks game, the comments made it sound like the Argos were 0-8 rather than 4-4 (coming off a 6-12 season).


NO! - you are bang-on and the Argos should hire you as an offensive coach, or at least minister of propaganda - nothing this team does is deserving of any scrutiny.

Right. You would know about propaganda...You spread enough of it around concerning how Canadians don't get a fair shake in the CFL.

[ArgoGabe22]

Watt played good I say we sign him up for the next 8 years. Rambo and Mann should get cut. Waters can go too he was only 3/5, terrible!

[ArgoRavi]

I guess that this forum isn't any different than any other but there does tend to be a lot of overreaction after a loss - very much a "sky is falling" attitude. For instance, Carroll has had one bad game all year but he sure took a lot of abuse over it last week. It doesn't matter how good of a season a team is having, there are going to be ups and downs over an 18 game season.

[1argoholic]

Personally no game as in football or team as in the Argos has ever made me show more passion from play to play over the years. Good or bad I do get into every game and wear my emotions on my sleeve. They were very close to crapping this one but that last ten minutes was key.

[ArgoZ]

I guess that this forum isn't any different than any other but there does tend to be a lot of overreaction after a loss - very much a "sky is falling" attitude. For instance, Carroll has had one bad game all year but he sure took a lot of abuse over it last week. It doesn't matter how good of a season a team is having, there are going to be ups and downs over an 18 game season.

Go read the Ti-Cats board. One guy said this loss will mean the end of the franchise, LOL. Another 50 year long tix holder, said he's finally had enough! LOL! Funny that it's only a play away from these two probably anointing the Cats champs.

[Wobbler]

I'm very pleased that we won and it was an exciting game. It would be crazy to be too negative, but for most of this game I thought we looked like the second best team on the field.

For me, the special teams remain an area of concern. I think Waters is a good kicker and Owens, overall, is a very good (not excellent, IMHO, because of his fumbling issues) returner. We're fine in those areas. Everything else seems below average, though. Hamilton got way too much pressure on Swayze and we've had ongoing problems covering kicks. To me, our cover guys often look disorganized. Why did we let Williams run the ball out of the endzone instead of forcing him to concede a rouge after the blocked FG attempt with 9 second left in the first half? We had him well contained - someone needed to go tackle him in the endzone.

...which leads into my main point: we're missing Bryan Crawford. Prefontaine became our special teams' captain after Crawford's retirement, and I have no idea who is doing the job now, but our teams look less organized and confident than they did when Crawford was on the field. Also, I'm having a hard time remembering why Mike O'Shea was considered a "special teams genius". Two years ago our ST were very effective and we ran a lot of successful fakes, but since then? We've been pretty ordinary aside from some great individual efforts by Owens.

[1argoholic]

For most of the game I thought that no way in hell were we coming back. After all the last 16 times we've trailed at the half we've lost. I'm hopeful that our O we saw in the last ten minutes we'll see more often. The ball was caught my seven different guys today. HOLY CRAP I can't believe it. It's called keeping everyone in the game mentally and keep the D off balance. Hope Ricky can turn his luck around at the dome. If we don't give up the big return to Williams and other big ones it's a different game earlier on. We need to spell Owens on returns the odd time as well. Our return game is lacking a bit now. I guess losing a few key special teamers does make a huge difference.
Anytime you can beat Hamilton especially on labour Day it's a GREAT DAY!!! Remember it's better to win than lose and have to live in Hamilton. haha. We're now just two points behind Montreal, four ahead of Ham and Winnipeg can stay put.

[Nob]

It was good to see Watt and Bradwell pick up the pieces after Durie left. The big difference between Watt/Bradwell and Durie is the YAC yardage. The Argos missed that today with Durie's injury.

I'm still stunned that there isn't a bona fide second receiver on this team. Owens was great today. The one-handed catch was sick. After that name another Argo receiver that was going to scare anybody??

I guess the best news out of this is that we have a QB that can throw for 375 yards with this receiving corps.......and behind that OL, and WIN in Hamilton on Labour Day.

Sorry, and one other point - Bryan Crawford is definitely missed on special teams.

[jerrym]

The one advantage of being old is you gain some perspective, such as the perspective of having been an Argo fan since 1959 and watching a decade of Argos teams that truly sucked. Whenever I start complaining about the Argos now, I remember that decade and laugh. Some posters have no idea of what bad means.

[ArgoRavi]

It was good to see Watt and Bradwell pick up the pieces after Durie left. The big difference between Watt/Bradwell and Durie is the YAC yardage. The Argos missed that today with Durie's injury.

I'm still stunned that there isn't a bona fide second receiver on this team. Owens was great today. The one-handed catch was sick. After that name another Argo receiver that was going to scare anybody??

I guess the best news out of this is that we have a QB that can throw for 375 yards with this receiving corps.......and behind that OL, and WIN in Hamilton on Labour Day.

Interestingly, Owens and Durie are both on pace for 1000 yards receiving for the season while Inman would only come up 16 yards short of that mark. The Argos are the only team in the league with as many as three receivers in the top 12. If they can get the support from the likes of Bradwell, Watt, Kackert and Rambo/Barnes/Mann as they did today, then the sky is the limit for this offence.

[Nob]

When Ray and Inman are in sync they are a great tandem. Today wasn't that that day. Inman and Rambo combined for 5 catches and 37 yards. I guess you can also throw Mann into that equation and the numbers don't change. Ewwwww.......

I guess one could say that it was it was the first game of the season for Rambo and Mann, but that is a stretch. Mann, Rambo, and Barnes are seasoned vets. They've played this game many times before. Somebody needs to step up and become a go-to receiver other than Owens.

And yet Owens, Durie and Inman will flirt with 1,000 yard seasons. Amazing. Simply amazing.

[ArgoRavi]

The thought crossed my mind today about how well Brandon Rideau would do if he had Ray as his QB. Does anyone else think that he might have flourished in this offence? Then again, he was released rather quickly after last season so there might have been a few issues that we don't know about (e.g., work ethic) that would have prevented him from ever being a top flight receiver.

[Wobbler]

Inman >> Rideau, after accounting for pass quality. IMHO.

[ArgoGabe22]

Imagine Cleo Lemon in Milanovich's offence. Would be no difference, the line doesn't even give Ray time so even he has to result to these small 5 yard passes haha

Ravi, what does Rideau have that Inman doesn't?

[AngeloV]

Ravi, what does Rideau have that Inman doesn't?

I'm guessing Ravi was contemplating having then both in the line-up. Rideau played mostly at slot last season while Inman is playing the short side WR position.

For the record, I wouldn't be against playing Bradwell, Watt and Durie as starters along with Owens and Inman and bringing in a 2nd non-import on the o-line. I think all are good enough, but with no time for Ray to throw, it doesn't matter who is catching the ball.

[argotom]

First, a great win and pretty much unexpected and like most here I did not think it would be possible and certainly not after the first half.
Definitely a tale of two halves.
From the get go Ricky was attacking downfield in the beginning but slowed down like the entire team in the second quarter.

[1argoholic]

You just can't pick what the hell hell is going to happen with this team. Too bad we didn't play Calgary four times as we have their number.

Hopefully we play 60 minutes next week but in this league who knows.

[D-Gap-Willie]

The one advantage of being old is you gain some perspective, such as the perspective of having been an Argo fan since 1959 and watching a decade of Argos teams that truly sucked. Whenever I start complaining about the Argos now, I remember that decade and laugh. Some posters have no idea of what bad means.

Your post made me laugh ! I wonder what the doom and gloom folks on this board would say if Milanovitch agreed with their assessment that Ray can't get the job done -- his answer would of course be to try Owens at QB. What the heck - he does everything else !
Yes, perspective ! I can never forget Hamp Pool deciding in 1958 that Dick Shatto would be his starting QB, because he did everything else so well. Indeed, " No idea what bad means "

[argotom]

You just can pick what the hell hell is going to happen with this team. Too bad we didn't play Calgary four times as we have their number.

Hopefully we play 60 minutes next week but in this league who knows.

#1 I agree with you, I have no idea what team will shou up next Saturday?

[ArgoRavi]

George Cortez made some interesting post-game comments which you can see at tsn.ca/cfl. He said that he has never seen more parity during his time in the league than he is seeing now and I certainly agree with him. He also said that the little errors such as receiver drops matter more now than ever with the teams being so close to each other.

As much as I would love to see the Argos win 48-0 on Saturday, the reality is that that game will likely be much like today's. Hamilton has a lot of dangerous weapons which keeps them in every game, despite a poor defence. While we would all like to see the Argos play an almost perfect game such as Saskatchewan played yesterday, the teams are generally too good in this league to see that kind of game very often. Hopefully the Argos will play a more consistent game on Saturday and continue to improve as a team but it will be a tough one. However, a win on Saturday would go a long way towards securing a playoff spot as it would put the Argos three games ahead of the Ticats with only eight to play so I really hope that the Argos can step on the Ticats' throats next week and throw what would be close to a knockout punch in regards to Hamilton catching the Argos.

[1argoholic]

Ravi no kidding this game on Sat is just as huge as today plus it would give them more confidence coming out here to BC the following week. I'm hoping this is the year they win out here.

[argolio]

#1 I agree with you, I have no idea what team will shou up next Saturday?Not that much different than any other team in the league.

[1argoholic]

Perhaps we just have to get used to a very different CFL this year. Seems as if separation could start happening though. If we win on Sat it'll go a long way into leaving Ham and Winnipeg in the dust.

[argonaut11xx]

Imagine Cleo Lemon in Milanovich's offence. Would be no difference,

With all due respect Gabe, thats got to be the dumbest comment i have EVER read on this forum

[1argoholic]

Come on argonaut11xx you know I've said dumber stuff. hahaha.

[Will]

Come on argonaut11xx you know I've said dumber stuff. hahaha.

The question is: were you sober when you said any of those things? :D

[argonaut11xx]

The question is: were you sober when you said any of those things? :D

Ahh come on Argofan87....everyone knows being SOBER is way over-rated....

haha:p

[1argoholic]

All very true.

[argotom]

With all due respect Gabe, thats got to be the dumbest comment i have EVER read on this forum

There must be a conspiracy as Gabe and Angelo must have gotten together on this collaboration.

[argotom]

Cleo Lemon, that's beyond funny.

[Gill The Thrill]

Imagine Cleo Lemon in Milanovich's offence. Would be no difference, the line doesn't even give Ray time so even he has to result to these small 5 yard passes haha

Ravi, what does Rideau have that Inman doesn't?I know Ravi made the first comparison of Rideau to Inman which is laughable but I'll answer.

Rideau had alligator arms compared to Inman. Ravi you got to stop looking at the measurements and just the action on the field. Rideau was hideous and his work ethic and effort were terrible compared to Inman. Inman gets up to catch balls and uses every inch of his body, Rideau never jumped more than 2 inches if even to get to a ball that was not directly thrown to the numbers, so Rideau on this team would just mean a lower completion rate for Ray.

As for the Lemon and Ray comparisons under this Milanovich offence, it would be injustice to even mention them in the same sentence let alone make the comparison. Ray is why this team is 5-4 after 9 games and Cleo is the reason the Argos were 2-7 after 9 games last season...the facts speak for themselves, enough said.

[ArgoGabe22]

In no way am I saying Ray isn't a great quarterback but looking at the stats from Lemon's last season to Ray now they are very similar to each other (TDs, INTs, completion %, TD %, INT % and QB rating).

I made that comment as a joke in regards to Ray never going deep (O-line not blocking I get it) and looking at the last 2 games especially you cannot deny the fact Ray has thrown a ton of dink passes which has made Lemon infamous. Ray has even threw similar INTs as Lemon. I know no one likes to go back to these Lemon debates but no one ever wonders what if we had Lemon in this offence with a better receiving corp? I'm not sure why everyone has a personal vendetta against Lemon or Joseph but they were with the club at the worst time possible with the worst coaches. I can guarantee Cleo Lemon can throw a better corner pass than anyone on this forum lol

Don't get me wrong I prefer to have Ray and think he is what we need to move forward. Sorry I mentioned that loser named Lemon in the same sentence as Ray, better go throw out all of my Argos gear in the garbage for being such a bad fan lol

[Gill The Thrill]

I actually liked Kerry Joseph and think his attitude and demure was totally different than Lemon`s. For some reason he just struggled here and was never a fit. I`m glad to see he kept himself in shape and is with a club after not being attached to a roster last season if I`m not mistaken.

Even during his miserable stay here, I thought he handled it very professionally and carried himself with dignity. He was also supportive of other teamates including those who were bucking for his position which is something that Cleo was not and something that led to his dismissal from the roster by his biggest supporter, Jim Barker.

[matchuk]

dont forget...the rogers centre is also an amazing stadium to play in!

[ArgoRavi]

I know Ravi made the first comparison of Rideau to Inman which is laughable but I'll answer.

Rideau had alligator arms compared to Inman. Ravi you got to stop looking at the measurements and just the action on the field. Rideau was hideous and his work ethic and effort were terrible compared to Inman. Inman gets up to catch balls and uses every inch of his body, Rideau never jumped more than 2 inches if even to get to a ball that was not directly thrown to the numbers, so Rideau on this team would just mean a lower completion rate for Ray.

As for the Lemon and Ray comparisons under this Milanovich offence, it would be injustice to even mention them in the same sentence let alone make the comparison. Ray is why this team is 5-4 after 9 games and Cleo is the reason the Argos were 2-7 after 9 games last season...the facts speak for themselves, enough said.

I made no comparison at all between Rideau and Inman as they don't even play the same position. I just wondered out loud how Rideau would do in, say, Barnes' spot with Ray as his QB.


I actually liked Kerry Joseph and think his attitude and demure was totally different than Lemon`s. For some reason he just struggled here and was never a fit. I`m glad to see he kept himself in shape and is with a club after not being attached to a roster last season if I`m not mistaken.

Even during his miserable stay here, I thought he handled it very professionally and carried himself with dignity. He was also supportive of other teamates including those who were bucking for his position which is something that Cleo was not and something that led to his dismissal from the roster by his biggest supporter, Jim Barker.

I especially felt badly for Joseph when Arland Bruce publicly attacked him which, more than any other reason, is why Bruce had to be shown the door. It would be interesting if Joseph knocked Bruce out the playoffs this year.

[AngeloV]

There must be a conspiracy as Gabe and Angelo must have gotten together on this collaboration.

Spoken by the guy that complains about Ray being a dissappointment and wanting to give Waters a long term contract after 4 games of service.

Remember these gems?

So far Ricky is a disappointment for sure.


I think Barker should do his best now to sign this kid to a long term deal,
He is a keeper and could be a fixture for many years.

[Fungi]

Here are the partial stats of the game. I think we need more receiver threat. I hope our NI's produce down the road, but they're either not get open, or they're not on the same page with RR.

<caption>TOR Passing</caption> <tbody>
<th>Name</th> <th>Comp</th> <th>Att</th> <th>Yards</th> <th>TD</th> <th>Int</th>

RAY, R (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/383)
32
45
375
1
0

</tbody>


<caption>HAM Passing</caption> <tbody>
<th>Name</th> <th>Comp</th> <th>Att</th> <th>Yards</th> <th>TD</th> <th>Int</th>

BURRIS, H (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/91)
13
30
218
2
2

</tbody>





<caption>TOR Rushing</caption> <tbody>
<th>Name</th> <th>No</th> <th>Yards</th> <th>TD</th> <th>Fum</th>

KACKERT, C (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/4313)
8
44
1
0


JACKSON, J (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/267)
4
6
0
0


RAY, R (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/383)
1
4
0
0

</tbody>


<caption>HAM Rushing</caption> <tbody>
<th>Name</th> <th>No</th> <th>Yards</th> <th>TD</th> <th>Fum</th>

WALKER, C (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/4901)
14
111
0
0


BURRIS, H (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/91)
2
12
0
1


PORTER, Q (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/2921)
2
2
0
0

</tbody>





<caption>TOR Receiving</caption> <tbody>
<th>Name</th> <th>No</th> <th>Yards</th> <th>Lg</th> <th>TD</th>

OWENS, C (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/3753)
11
176
39
1


WATT, S (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/3155)
6
61
13
0


KACKERT, C (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/4313)
3
46
26
0


BRADWELL, M (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/2965)
6
45
17
0


INMAN, D (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/4787)
3
21
11
0


RAMBO, K (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/451)
2
16
12
0


DURIE, A (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/2041)
1
10
10
0

</tbody>

Someone asked why we don't have a Ticat Drew Edwards. Does anyone know someone with reasonable credentials who can start a blog? Drew has a half -assed rag behind him..LOL,Just kidding...
Can our sight generate enough money, to send a full time blogger out to Argo events. Should be good along with other like-minded people and sponsors.Why be inactive.
I`ll throw some money in a pot.

[Fungi]

OOps, sorry! I meant this.

<caption>TOR Passing</caption> <tbody>
<th>Name</th> <th>Comp</th> <th>Att</th> <th>Yards</th> <th>TD</th> <th>Int</th>

RAY, R (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/383)
32
45
375
1
0

</tbody>


<caption>HAM Passing</caption> <tbody>
<th>Name</th> <th>Comp</th> <th>Att</th> <th>Yards</th> <th>TD</th> <th>Int</th>

BURRIS, H (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/91)
13
30
218
2
2

</tbody>





<caption>TOR Rushing</caption> <tbody>
<th>Name</th> <th>No</th> <th>Yards</th> <th>TD</th> <th>Fum</th>

KACKERT, C (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/4313)
8
44
1
0


JACKSON, J (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/267)
4
6
0
0


RAY, R (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/383)
1
4
0
0

</tbody>


<caption>HAM Rushing</caption> <tbody>
<th>Name</th> <th>No</th> <th>Yards</th> <th>TD</th> <th>Fum</th>

WALKER, C (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/4901)
14
111
0
0


BURRIS, H (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/91)
2
12
0
1


PORTER, Q (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/2921)
2
2
0
0

</tbody>





<caption>TOR Receiving</caption> <tbody>
<th>Name</th> <th>No</th> <th>Yards</th> <th>Lg</th> <th>TD</th>

OWENS, C (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/3753)
11
176
39
1


WATT, S (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/3155)
6
61
13
0


KACKERT, C (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/4313)
3
46
26
0


BRADWELL, M (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/2965)
6
45
17
0


INMAN, D (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/4787)
3
21
11
0


RAMBO, K (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/451)
2
16
12
0


DURIE, A (http://www.cfl.ca/roster/show/id/2041)
1
10
10
0

</tbody>

[argolio]

I actually liked Kerry Joseph and think his attitude and demure was totally different than Lemon`s. For some reason he just struggled here and was never a fit. I`m glad to see he kept himself in shape and is with a club after not being attached to a roster last season if I`m not mistaken.

Even during his miserable stay here, I thought he handled it very professionally and carried himself with dignity. He was also supportive of other teamates including those who were bucking for his position which is something that Cleo was not and something that led to his dismissal from the roster by his biggest supporter, Jim Barker.I liked both but had somewhat the opposite impression based on what I saw in training camp and practices. I thought Joseph was pretty quiet, a bit moody, and generally kept to himself (though some of that could have been his reaction to the rifts in management we had at the time), and until he was cut Lemon was upbeat, positive, and joked around with his teammates more than Joseph. Both of them were humble and worked hard in practice.

And in the interests of fairness, if Lemon was responsible for 2-7 in 2011, then he should also be given credit for having this team 5-4 after 9 games in 2010. You can't have it both ways.

[Nob]

Fungi - the big stat in amongst the stats that you listed is ZERO int's for Ray. Good to see that stop (although with Ray you knew that he wouldn't continue to turn it over every game).

Winning the turnover battle makes it easier. Thanks, Henry.

[Rich]

I actually liked Kerry Joseph and think his attitude and demure was totally different than Lemon`s. For some reason he just struggled here and was never a fit. I`m glad to see he kept himself in shape and is with a club after not being attached to a roster last season if I`m not mistaken.

Even during his miserable stay here, I thought he handled it very professionally and carried himself with dignity. He was also supportive of other teamates including those who were bucking for his position

I guess you missed the part when Joseph went running to David Cynamon to complain about Stubler's announced two-QB system. There is no more sure way to divide a team than to have a player getting special treatment from the team owner. Stubler immediately got the axe, and the Argonauts were doomed to two seasons with a deeply divided and dysfunctional dressing room, all thanks to KJ.

The guy came in here just having won the MOP thinking he was the second coming of Warren Moon. Never mind he won that award practically by default, since all the top QBs got injured that year. Just like he said in his his unintentionally-hilarious commercial for Future Shop, he was "All Joseph, baby". He was certainly not willing to share the QB duties. One look at his sour expression standing all alone on the sidelines early that year told the story.

And I know Arland Bruce was way out of line to say so publicly, but does anybody really doubt that a large chunk of that dressing room secretly or otherwise agreed with Bruce about Joseph? IMO the acquisition of Kerry Joseph cost this franchise about 4 years worth of development, two years to dig a deep, deep hole, and two years to climb back out of it.

[AngeloV]

I guess you missed the part when Joseph went running to David Cynamon to complain about Stubler's announced two-QB system.

Proof? Or are you just anti-Joseph because he didn't get along with Bruce?

[Rich]

Proof? Or are you just anti-Joseph because he didn't get along with Bruce?

It was reported by Adrion Smith when he was the CFL analyst on Sportsnet. Sorry I don't have the video or the transcript.

[argotom]

Spoken by the guy that complains about Ray being a dissappointment and wanting to give Waters a long term contract after 4 games of service.

Remember these gems?

I stand by every one of these.
You should also do some homework.
I am not the only one that believes how Ray still has not lived up to his billings.
There are many here and Jock Climie said so on TSN during the game time.
One game does not make a season, heck I hope that I am wrong so far about Ricky and this is the beginning of something great.

[1argoholic]

As i've been saying since we signed Ray he can't do it all. He's learning a totally new system and we've had so many new faces on O learning together. The O line has been like swiss cheese with a qb that runs little. Ray has indeed forced some balls that he shouldn't have. I guess you could say based on what Ray is capable of that he's underachieved even though he has pretty good numbers other than the picks.

[AngeloV]

It was reported by Adrion Smith when he was the CFL analyst on Sportsnet. Sorry I don't have the video or the transcript.

Maybe this type of shoddy reporting is why he only lasted 1 season at that gig.

[Invader]

Someone asked why we don't have a Ticat Drew Edwards. Does anyone know someone with reasonable credentials who can start a blog? Drew has a half -assed rag behind him..LOL,Just kidding...
Can our sight generate enough money, to send a full time blogger out to Argo events. Should be good along with other like-minded people and sponsors.Why be inactive.
I`ll throw some money in a pot.

Chris Zelkovitch had his blog at the Star, but I believe he was instructed to stop. Ironically the Star owns the Hamilton Spectator which publishes Drew Edward's excellent Scratching Post blog. For many newspaper reporters their blogs are just a nuisance and they often don't get paid extra for them. The traditional newspapers just don't get it, but the more progressive media outlets see the potential of online news and encourage readers and responses.

The CFL should hire a guy like Drew Edwards as its media director. The league would really benefit if he could apply his "blog" to the entire CFL rather than just the Ticats.

In Toronto, the Sun would seem the logical newspaper to sponsor a Argo blogger (the Admiral's Post)? But I think sponsor is the key word...you'd have to pay someone to write it and gain access to a major online presence.

[1argoholic]

There used to be two very funny Argo bloggers. I'll send out an e-mail to find out if they still exsist. I'll be back.

[bluto]

For the record, I wouldn't be against playing Bradwell, Watt and Durie as starters along with Owens and Inman and bringing in a 2nd non-import on the o-line. I think all are good enough, but with no time for Ray to throw, it doesn't matter who is catching the ball.

this to the power of infinity

[Rich]

Maybe this type of shoddy reporting is why he only lasted 1 season at that gig.

Funny how you dismiss a man of integrity like Adrion Smith, yet you treated the tweets of a headcase like Rob Murphy like it was the gospel truth, all in the name of toeing the party line.

[AngeloV]

Funny how you dismiss a man of integrity like Adrion Smith, yet you treated the tweets of a headcase like Rob Murphy like it was the gospel truth, all in the name of toeing the party line.

Right...Murphy is a headcase (I don't believe he was ever traded or told to stay home), but Bruce isn't.

Murphy's tweets and Smith's sportsnet reports have nothing to do with each other and shouldn't be compared. Who takes twitter seriously? But when a TV network is paying someone to be a reporter, they really can't be making these types of accusations without proof. Marty York has been flamed over and over again on these sites for using nameless sources. Why should it be different for Smith?

[1argoholic]

AngeloV the sources aren't nameless. Everyone knows the source on here as Flutie. I can't recall if he goes by 1 or 2. Those guys got Morty Dork almost weekly.

[Rich]

Right...Murphy is a headcase (I don't believe he was ever traded or told to stay home), but Bruce isn't.

Murphy's tweets and Smith's sportsnet reports have nothing to do with each other and shouldn't be compared. Who takes twitter seriously? But when a TV network is paying someone to be a reporter, they really can't be making these types of accusations without proof. Marty York has been flamed over and over again on these sites for using nameless sources. Why should it be different for Smith?

You yourself cited Murphy's tweets as "proof" that Cory Boyd was a problem in the dressing room, so I guess you take take twitter seriously.

At the time of the report Adrion Smith was one year removed from the team but was still very close to a lot of players on the scene. There is no reason to doubt that he had more access to insider information than a reporter or Marty York would have had. What kind of "proof" do you need? Taped conversations?

And as for Arland Bruce, you keep bringing him up, I never denied he was a headcase, or as I would rather put it, a different kind of cat. My point is and has has always been that a good coach knows how to handle these kinds of players, how to keep them productive and how to prevent them from becoming a problem in the dressing room. Ask Wally Buono, who was probably the only real good coach Bruce ever played for.

Incidentally Bruce recently passed Brian Kelly to move into 10th spot in all-time receiving yardage, next season he will likely pass Derrell Mitchell and Don Narcisse to move into 8th.

[AngeloV]

Incidentally Bruce recently passed Brian Kelly to move into 10th spot in all-time receiving yardage, next season he will likely pass Derrell Mitchell and Don Narcisse to move into 8th.

Wouldn't be the case if Kelly played 18 game seasons throughout his career as Bruce has. I also somehow doubt tht Kelly ever had a problem with anyone on his team either.

[paulwoods13]

Ask Wally Buono, who was probably the only real good coach Bruce ever played for.

You don't rate Pinball Clemons as a good coach?

[Gill The Thrill]

And in the interests of fairness, if Lemon was responsible for 2-7 in 2011, then he should also be given credit for having this team 5-4 after 9 games in 2010. You can't have it both ways.

It's called "smoke and mirrors," that should be credited for what was a 5-2 start after 7 games in 2010. After watching Lemon have a horrendous game on Labour Day that season, I pretty much believed this guy would get the Argos nowhere as I believed he could not get any better. The team was so unentertaining imo that I ended up getting rid of some flex pack vouchers because I understood that a CFL offence with Lemon was awful. Chad Owens returns was the best play on offense that year. A home loss of 30-3 vs the Ticats later that year vindicated my sentiment.

Remember for the good of the organization and to the uproar of some fans on here, I was actively hoping the Argos would have lost that 2010 ESF game in Hamilton because I did not want the team to get the false impression that they could go places with a Lemon at QB. Thanks to Bellefeuille who could not coach his way out of a paper bag the Ticats handed that game to the Argos...a badly played 19-16 game in my opinion.

The following week reality set in as the Argos were embarrassed in the Eastern Final at the Big "O" 48-17. Yet, Barker in his wisdom stupidly went to training camp with Cleo as the #1, at the expense of losing touch with the fan base and with the media who already knew that after an entire season as a starter, Cleo made minimal progress as a QB. Unfortunately for Argo fans including myself, Cleo did not disprove my observation and prognostication skills and the team lost a full year of development. That move of keeping Lemon hurt way more than the Kerry Joseph move imo.

[1argoholic]

Well written Gill.

[argolio]

It's called "smoke and mirrors," that should be credited for what was a 5-2 start after 7 games in 2010. After watching Lemon have a horrendous game on Labour Day that season, I pretty much believed this guy would get the Argos nowhere as I believed he could not get any better. The team was so unentertaining imo that I ended up getting rid of some flex pack vouchers because I understood that a CFL offence with Lemon was awful. Chad Owens returns was the best play on offense that year. A home loss of 30-3 vs the Ticats later that year vindicated my sentiment.

Remember for the good of the organization and to the uproar of some fans on here, I was actively hoping the Argos would have lost that 2010 ESF game in Hamilton because I did not want the team to get the false impression that they could go places with a Lemon at QB. Thanks to Bellefeuille who could not coach his way out of a paper bag the Ticats handed that game to the Argos...a badly played 19-16 game in my opinion.

The following week reality set in as the Argos were embarrassed in the Eastern Final at the Big "O" 48-17. Yet, Barker in his wisdom stupidly went to training camp with Cleo as the #1, at the expense of losing touch with the fan base and with the media who already knew that after an entire season as a starter, Cleo made minimal progress as a QB. Unfortunately for Argo fans including myself, Cleo did not disprove my observation and prognostication skills and the team lost a full year of development. That move of keeping Lemon hurt way more than the Kerry Joseph move imo.Congratulations on trying to have it both ways!

[gilthethrill]

Did Barker not trade for Jyles after the 2010 season with expectations he would supplant Lemon as the #1 qb but his shoulder was still hurt? It was time for Kj to move on after 2 seasons here Gill. Please please tell me what I am missing.

[ArgoRavi]

It's called "smoke and mirrors," that should be credited for what was a 5-2 start after 7 games in 2010. After watching Lemon have a horrendous game on Labour Day that season, I pretty much believed this guy would get the Argos nowhere as I believed he could not get any better. The team was so unentertaining imo that I ended up getting rid of some flex pack vouchers because I understood that a CFL offence with Lemon was awful. Chad Owens returns was the best play on offense that year. A home loss of 30-3 vs the Ticats later that year vindicated my sentiment.

Remember for the good of the organization and to the uproar of some fans on here, I was actively hoping the Argos would have lost that 2010 ESF game in Hamilton because I did not want the team to get the false impression that they could go places with a Lemon at QB. Thanks to Bellefeuille who could not coach his way out of a paper bag the Ticats handed that game to the Argos...a badly played 19-16 game in my opinion.

The following week reality set in as the Argos were embarrassed in the Eastern Final at the Big "O" 48-17. Yet, Barker in his wisdom stupidly went to training camp with Cleo as the #1, at the expense of losing touch with the fan base and with the media who already knew that after an entire season as a starter, Cleo made minimal progress as a QB. Unfortunately for Argo fans including myself, Cleo did not disprove my observation and prognostication skills and the team lost a full year of development. That move of keeping Lemon hurt way more than the Kerry Joseph move imo.

For being in his first season in the league, Cleo was pretty good in those first seven games of 2010 IMO. He engineered come-from-behind victories against Calgary, B.C. and an especially impressive one in Edmonton. He played a strong game at home in beating Montreal as well. Cleo's first season went off the rails when he injured a finger on his throwing hand in the second half of the game after Labour Day after playing perhaps his finest half as an Argo in the first half.

[Wobbler]

It's probably too late to change anyone's opinion of Cleo Lemon, but I agree (with the implication) that it's important to challenge absurd criticisms of his performance and legacy.

[argotom]

The point is and history proved most of us correct, he never should have been here to begin with.
It turned out to be unnecessary and valuable waste of time and further alienation to some fans, some who knows may never come back?

[Rich]

You don't rate Pinball Clemons as a good coach?

holy tangent city, batman, I was trying to make a point about Kerry Joseph but my friend Angelo kept dragging Bruce into the argument and...

Anyway you are right Paul, I should have said "great coach" instead of "good coach" in my earlier post. Pinball really knew how to handle his players and get the most out of them, he was a damn good coach, but as a tactician and field general I would say he wasn't up to Wally's level.

[paulwoods13]

holy tangent city, batman, I was trying to make a point about Kerry Joseph but my friend Angelo kept dragging Bruce into the argument and...

Anyway you are right Paul, I should have said "great coach" instead of "good coach" in my earlier post. Pinball really knew how to handle his players and get the most out of them, he was a damn good coach, but as a tactician and field general I would say he wasn't up to Wally's level.

Sorry, didn't mean to go off on a tangent, just wanted to know what you meant. I think that is an astute analysis of Pinball's abilities as a coach.

[ArgoRavi]

holy tangent city, batman, I was trying to make a point about Kerry Joseph but my friend Angelo kept dragging Bruce into the argument and...

Anyway you are right Paul, I should have said "great coach" instead of "good coach" in my earlier post. Pinball really knew how to handle his players and get the most out of them, he was a damn good coach, but as a tactician and field general I would say he wasn't up to Wally's level.

Pinball did own Wally in the 2004 Grey Cup though.

[paulwoods13]

Pinball did own Wally in the 2004 Grey Cup though.

Pinball did a great job that year and in that game, and Wally will be questioned forever for starting Dickenson. But still, if the bomb to Geroy had not been overthrown, there might have been a different outcome. I can still that pass coming right toward my section in the end zone, and holding my breath.

[argolio]

The point is and history proved most of us correct, he never should have been here to begin with.
It turned out to be unnecessary and valuable waste of time and further alienation to some fans, some who knows may never come back?In your history, most of the free-agent QBs you suggested we sign are just like Lemon -- out of the league. How you believe one of those guys would have done substantially better than Lemon boggles the mind.