David Lee/Ricky Foley Thread

[doubleblue]

I watched this kid DE David Lee a little closer today as he has been getting some first string action lately. It looks IMO that the Argos got lucky bringing in a undrafted FA after all their hit and misses of their drafted players. His play may well grease the skids for Ricky Foley who has just not seem to click here as expected. The things I noticed about Lee is he has good speed and quickness which is crucial for a good DE. Heavy set in the lower half will make him tough to block and when he adds 10 lbs or so to his upper body he could become a fixture on the Argo D-Line for several years.
He has moved past last years draft pick Alexander Robinson on the depth chart in just the first half of the season. Now he just needs some good coaching on his rush moves and he can become a complete player.
I don't think we will see Ricky Foley back here next year.

[1argoholic]

Everytime he's on the field he's chasing the qb. He was running Burris down pretty good on one play today.

[Wobbler]

It's true that Foley is pretty expensive ($100K-$150K depending on bonuses) for the performance he is delivering, and this is the last year of his contract. I'm not yet convinced that Lee will become a starter, but he's one of several budget-priced guys that we should keep but will want pay raises next year. That money will have to come from somewhere.

[OV Argo]

I'd like to see Lee AND Foley on the D-line in some situations; seems Lee is always replacing Foley; when he could replace Flemons in some sets - Flemons is good for the odd knock-down but is not where he was a couple of seasons back as a force on the D-line; Foley and Lee both turned loose on pass-rush in some situations might be a good combo; and there is nothing stopping the coaches from having 2 NI DEs in at the same time, though that might be beyond their standard mind-set?


And yeah - Foley is not having enough impact on this Argo D - maybe he's slipped or slowed in his play, but maybe they need to find a better way to use him; and if he is not a fit, then maybe they will trade him or let him go, but that could be a big mistake IMO

[AngeloV]

I'd like to see Lee AND Foley on the D-line in some situations; seems Lee is always replacing Foley; when he could replace Flemons in some sets - Flemons is good for the odd knock-down but is not where he was a couple of seasons back as a force on the D-line; Foley and Lee both turned loose on pass-rush in some situations might be a good combo; and there is nothing stopping the coaches from having 2 NI DEs in at the same time, though that might be beyond their standard mind-set?


And yeah - Foley is not having enough impact on this Argo D - maybe he's slipped or slowed in his play, but maybe they need to find a better way to use him; and if he is not a fit, then maybe they will trade him or let him go, but that could be a big mistake IMO

I think Flemons has been way better than Foley this year. If he was on the field as much as Foley, he would be way more impactful. Foley's NI status, IMO, is the only reason he is still starting. He's been horrible this season.

As I mentioned in another thread, Foley fancies himself as a pass rush specialist, yet he's only had 1 season in which he had more than 6 sacks. And that was playing opposite Cam Wake. You think he got a little less attention then?

[paulwoods13]

I'm starting to think that Foley is a versatile guy who can be a solid contributor on special teams and defence, but not a star or a sack hound. If he is willing to accept that role, and the salary reduction that comes with it, he could be a good guy to have around for many years. But if he wants to keep getting star pay, he's probably not going to get it here.

[doubleblue]

I'm starting to think that Foley is a versatile guy who can be a solid contributor on special teams and defence, but not a star or a sack hound. If he is willing to accept that role, and the salary reduction that comes with it, he could be a good guy to have around for many years. But if he wants to keep getting star pay, he's probably not going to get it here.

I have to agree. I think there is something going on behind the scenes with Foley and the Coaches. I am pretty sure if he was an import he would be gone by now. The body language and his overall play to me shows he is not a happy camper. When the Coaches sour on a player its just a matter of time until the opportunity comes to move them. I always thought Ricky would make an excellant MLB if he slimmed down a bit, he has good speed and pursuit ability. I know they list him at 6'3 250, but he's not that big and at about 230 could play the middle IMO. Him and Pottinger could do the job there and free up an import spot. McCune's ok but he's nit a superstar. Ricky's one big year and his trip to the NFL didn't do him any good in the long term. To me in his mind he's a star who doesn't need to be told how rush the passer etc. I could be wrong but that's the attitude that seems show.

I agree with OV also that Flemons isn't the pass rusher he was two years ago, but he is a good veteran team player who can move into the middle to spell Huntley and Armstead. But he's not getting any younger and will have to be replaced, but not just yet. Some veteran players that stay in good shape can play longer than others. Younger is a good example. Maybe slowed a step for the corner but has flourished at safety.

[jerrym]

Foley and Huntley are 30 while Flemons will be 33 before the end of the season. Even if all three were to do a good job for the rest of the season I think it would be unwise to keep all three next year. While individually those ages are not terribly old (although Flemons is getting there). I think it would be unwise of the Argos to have three of their top 4 defensive linesmen next year being 31 or older as injuries tend to come more often and last longer past 30. If they kept all three it would probably mean a major rebuilding job for the defensive line the following season even if they were competitive next year. I agree Foley could be useful as a NI at a lower salary.

[OV Argo]

I have to agree. I think there is something going on behind the scenes with Foley and the Coaches. I am pretty sure if he was an import he would be gone by now. The body language and his overall play to me shows he is not a happy camper. When the Coaches sour on a player its just a matter of time until the opportunity comes to move them. I always thought Ricky would make an excellant MLB if he slimmed down a bit, he has good speed and pursuit ability. I know they list him at 6'3 250, but he's not that big and at about 230 could play the middle IMO. Him and Pottinger could do the job there and free up an import spot. McCune's ok but he's nit a superstar. Ricky's one big year and his trip to the NFL didn't do him any good in the long term. To me in his mind he's a star who doesn't need to be told how rush the passer etc. I could be wrong but that's the attitude that seems show.

I agree with OV also that Flemons isn't the pass rusher he was two years ago, but he is a good veteran team player who can move into the middle to spell Huntley and Armstead. But he's not getting any younger and will have to be replaced, but not just yet. Some veteran players that stay in good shape can play longer than others. Younger is a good example. Maybe slowed a step for the corner but has flourished at safety.


The point that doesn't seemed to be grasped by some here about Foley - is that he has been a sack leader in the CFL and also led the entire league's D-Linemen in tackles just last season (and by a wide margin); so that's 2 defensive categories where he has led the entire league; yet some want to give-up on him now or write him off? Could be he has lost something or maybe he is an "unhappy camper" on this defence, but IMO he could still be a top CFL DE talent; but if the coaches can't make him work in their system or he isn't happy and not not willong to accpet a different role - then maybe he could/should be replaced,

Like to see more of Lee for sure; and Flemons isn't doing much IMO.

Anyhow - kinda hard to complain too much about this Argo D - been very solid and tough this season with some big play-making (Carroll & Watkins pick 6s in consecutive games!); they looked pretty soft against the run last game though - Cobourne ripped off big yardage. The highly touted Armstead is reminding me of Wroten from last season - not doing much as the season progresses and probably way over-rated (though still young and learning the CFL); McCune is OK at MLB - decent tackle totals but nowhere near a top play-making CFL MLB (see Sherritt or Bighill or Emry) - any sacks, forced or recovered fumbles? - making tackles well down the field is one thing - why are some not calling for him or Armstaed or Flemons or Ball or Horne to be replaced or got rid of like Foley rates? - I don't recall any of them leading the CFL in a defensive category - in the past or now; but their import status means they shouild be handed every-down starting gigs to some i guess? Foley gets subbed for by a good young DE in Lee, yet Pottinger or Tristan Black get no shots at MLB so McCune can play every down ???

I'd love to see this Argo D continue to gel and get even better - no real obvious weak spots with guys needed to be cut (see the Ticats D-Line and D-backfield - mediocre to horrible); but if an upgrade was needed, i'd hardly start with Foley.

[paulwoods13]

Foley gets subbed for by a good young DE in Lee, yet Pottinger or Tristan Black get no shots at MLB so McCune can play every down ???


McCune does not play every down -- he often comes out on passing downs in favour of a sixth DB (Matt Black). T Black went in last week when McCune was hurt and missed a few plays. Pottinger seems to be a special-teamer only at this point. I'd love to see him get some snaps on defence but I am very content with McCune's play at MLB to this point. The Argo defence is doing a lot of things very well and the play of their linebackers is a huge part of that, IMO.

[OV Argo]

I think Flemons has been way better than Foley this year. If he was on the field as much as Foley, he would be way more impactful. Foley's NI status, IMO, is the only reason he is still starting. He's been horrible this season.

As I mentioned in another thread, Foley fancies himself as a pass rush specialist, yet he's only had 1 season in which he had more than 6 sacks. And that was playing opposite Cam Wake. You think he got a little less attention then?


Ummm - no - Foley tied for the league lead in sacks in 09 - when Wake was gone to the NFL; nice try though - somebody tried to run that schtick here before and got vehemently rebuked by Area 51.

[OV Argo]

McCune does not play every down -- he often comes out on passing downs in favour of a sixth DB (Matt Black). T Black went in last week when McCune was hurt and missed a few plays. Pottinger seems to be a special-teamer only at this point. I'd love to see him get some snaps on defence but I am very content with McCune's play at MLB to this point. The Argo defence is doing a lot of things very well and the play of their linebackers is a huge part of that, IMO.

McCune plays every down when they have a MLB in the D; nobody else on the roster is getting a shot - yet they have 2 guys who have experience in the CFL and showed they can play the position; McCune played more DE at Calgary then he played at MLB - and he was IMO a better DE than he is a MLB - he could sub for Flemons some at DE.

[paulwoods13]

McCune plays every down when they have a MLB in the D; nobody else on the roster is getting a shot - yet they have 2 guys who have experience in the CFL and showed they can play the position; McCune played more DE at Calgary then he played at MLB - and he was IMO a better DE than he is a MLB - he could sub for Flemons some at DE.

But the linebackers have been the strongest unit on a strong defence, IMO. So why mess with that? I sure wouldn't if I were Chris Jones.

I agree Pottinger has shown he can play the position in the CFL; disagree about Black because he has (with the exception of one game a couple of years ago) rarely been in on defence. Now whether either of them are well suited to the MLB assignments in this particular defensive scheme is something I'm not qualified to speak to.

[ArgoRavi]

I have to agree. I think there is something going on behind the scenes with Foley and the Coaches. I am pretty sure if he was an import he would be gone by now. The body language and his overall play to me shows he is not a happy camper.

I have no doubt that he is unhappy. He has even let his unhappiness loose in at least one tweet. Sorry Ricky, but nobody is bigger than the team and the defensive system as is is working great. Here is a National Post article from yesterday in which Kevin Huntley talks about this and how he has accepted his role: http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/09/08/argos-defence-thriving-under-unselfish-schemes/

[OV Argo]

But the linebackers have been the strongest unit on a strong defence, IMO. So why mess with that? I sure wouldn't if I were Chris Jones.

I agree Pottinger has shown he can play the position in the CFL; disagree about Black because he has (with the exception of one game a couple of years ago) rarely been in on defence. Now whether either of them are well suited to the MLB assignments in this particular defensive scheme is something I'm not qualified to speak to.

Again - I'm not going to complain about this very solid Argo D thus far this season - great job by coach Jones in having schemes and coverages to limit opposing offences a good deal of the time; no real weak unit - but I'd argue the D-backfield is the strongest unit and the most key to shutting down CFL pass heavy offences (the pass rush has not been that great but still comes thru at times with some pressure and some sacks) - the new guys Carroll and Watkins have been excellent to go along with 2 proven vets in Younger and McCullough.

[OV Argo]

I have no doubt that he is unhappy. He has even let his unhappiness loose in at least one tweet. Sorry Ricky, but nobody is bigger than the team and the defensive system as is is working great. Here is a National Post article from yesterday in which Kevin Huntley talks about this and how he has accepted his role: http://sports.nationalpost.com/2012/09/08/argos-defence-thriving-under-unselfish-schemes/

Yep - guys who can't accept the team concept or are me first types or who won't listen to coaches - are asking to be gone - good riddance. A bit of discontent or complaining is one thing; the pathetic suck-hole act that Lemon pulled on the side-line when he was replaced - smirking/sulking bs that shows zero respect for your team and team-mates - is another thing - the type of stuff that should get you a swift kick in the ar$e out of town

[ArgoRavi]

Yep - guys who can't accept the team concept or are me first types or who won't listen to coaches - are asking to be gone - good riddance. A bit of discontent or complaining is one thing; the pathetic suck-hole act that Lemon pulled on the side-line when he was replaced - smirking/sulking bs that shows zero respect for your team and team-mates - is another thing - the type of stuff that should get you a swift kick in the ar$e out of town

Agreed, OV. BTW, what do you know about David Lee? He seems to make plays every time he gets a chance. What was he like in the CIS?

[paulwoods13]

Again - I'm not going to complain about this very solid Argo D thus far this season - great job by coach Jones in having schemes and coverages to limit opposing offences a good deal of the time; no real weak unit - but I'd argue the D-backfield is the strongest unit and the most key to shutting down CFL pass heavy offences (the pass rush has not been that great but still comes thru at times with some pressure and some sacks) - the new guys Carroll and Watkins have been excellent to go along with 2 proven vets in Younger and McCullough.

When I say I feel the LBs have been the strongest unit, I want to make clear I am not being critical of the other two units. I agree that all of the DBs have been excellent, even the guys who have subbed in and out like T.J. Williams. The d-line has had its ups and downs, but in key situations it has been very strong more often than not. All in all, an excellent defence, and guys seem to be buying into their roles, hopefully Ricky becomes one of those if he isn't already.

[AngeloV]

Ummm - no - Foley tied for the league lead in sacks in 09 - when Wake was gone to the NFL; nice try though - somebody tried to run that schtick here before and got vehemently rebuked by Area 51.

You are correct on the fact the Wake was not there in '09. But the fact remains, he's never had more than 6 in any other year. I guarantee, that if not for his birth certificate, you would not be so quick to defend him.

[argotom]

Foley overall would have to be a disappointment since signing with the team.
He is not getting the pressure on the O line like when he was with the Lions.
Almost like Baggs with the Cats who was really never much of a factor.
While at the dome, I watched Foley when he was benched and he didn't look pleased as no one would under the circumstance.

[Mulder]

Any chance Foley could be trade bait? Trade deadline is 1 month away. (Wednesday, October 10th).
If David Lee continues to play well he could very well take over the starting spot.

[OV Argo]

You are correct on the fact the Wake was not there in '09. But the fact remains, he's never had more than 6 in any other year. I guarantee, that if not for his birth certificate, you would not be so quick to defend him.


And I guarantee, if not for their birth certificates - your types would be instead questioning lesser defensive players like McCune, Horne, Flemons, Armstead, Ball or Kuale getting to stsrt or play lots on this same Argo D; which of those guys has led, or is about to lead, the CFL in one, let alone 2 defensive stat categories, in a season? Yep - Foley is just "horrible" - get that NI outta there.

[ArgoGabe22]

Lee was an OUA all-star last year, used to play LB like Foley but moved to DE in 2009. I too am impressed with his play especially considering the fact he was on the PR at the start of the season. Foley only had 2 tackles in 2 games which isn't amazing but sometimes playing on the line isn't only about stats just like what Huntley said in that article. To give some credit to Foley I have seen him pressure the quarterback on several occasions just not against Hamilton.

[Will]

Are we really going to have another pissing match over the ratio?

[1argoholic]

I see Floey doing little but perhaps they are happy with Foley just chasing guys into waiting tacklers arms. I don't know.

[AngeloV]

And I guarantee, if not for their birth certificates - your types would be instead questioning lesser defensive players like McCune, Horne, Flemons, Armstead, Ball or Kuale getting to stsrt or play lots on this same Argo D; which of those guys has led, or is about to lead, the CFL in one, let alone 2 defensive stat categories, in a season? Yep - Foley is just "horrible" - get that NI outta there.

That is absurd. Nobody wants Canadians to succeed more in this league than I do. I just refuse to give them special passes because of where they were born. In fact, I have mentioned in the past that I would like the league to go to less imports on the rosters. NI players tend to stick around longer, and I think familiarity with the rosters would actually improve attendance. But as long as the rosters are what they are, there is nothing that can be done. Are you also serious that those players that you mentioned are lesser players than Foley? Because if that is what you're saying, you're truly biased, and it would be very difficult to take your opinions seriously. Each of those players have made more plays this season than Foley, and Foley gets a lot more snaps on D than either Flemons, Kuale or Armstead.

[OV Argo]

That is absurd. Nobody wants Canadians to succeed more in this league than I do. I just refuse to give them special passes because of where they were born. In fact, I have mentioned in the past that I would like the league to go to less imports on the rosters. NI players tend to stick around longer, and I think familiarity with the rosters would actually improve attendance. But as long as the rosters are what they are, there is nothing that can be done. Are you also serious that those players that you mentioned are lesser players than Foley? Because if that is what you're saying, you're truly biased, and it would be very difficult to take your opinions seriously. Each of those players have made more plays this season than Foley, and Foley gets a lot more snaps on D than either Flemons, Kuale or Armstead.


You're not worth dscussing this topic with; you seriously believe a Kuale or Flemons or Armstead is anywhere near as good a defensive football player as Foley is ??? - well, you're entitled to your opinion; yet you failed to answer my question as to which of those players has or is going to lead the CFL in a defensive categrory in a season (Foley has tied for the league lead in sacks, also led all D-Linemen in the league in tackles (by a mile) last season); and you go out of your way to fabricate some false situation in an attempt to diminish or ignore what Foley did accomplish in the CFL.

Bias? - that's you; your repeated attempts to defend or praise a mediocre stiff of a QB like Lemon here was most notable; and i bet you were one of those here who bristled with indignation when some were saying they might like to see Kackert get some playing time when Boyd was the everydown RB - yeah Boyd should have been annointed the Argos starrting RB forever with nobody else allowed to play and Lemon should still be the Argos starting QB. You don't like to hear opinions other than your narrow view of what the Argos should be like - as the coaches always know best and tell it to you.

[AngeloV]

You're not worth dscussing this topic with; you seriously believe a Kuale or Flemons or Armstead is anywhere near as good a defensive football player as Foley is ??? - well, you're entitled to your opinion; yet you failed to answer my question as to which of those players has or is going to lead the CFL in a defensive categrory in a season (Foley has tied for the league lead in sacks, also led all D-Linemen in the league in tackles (by a mile) last season); and you go out of your way to fabricate some false situation in an attempt to diminish or ignore what Foley did accomplish in the CFL.

Bias? - that's you; your repeated attempts to defend or praise a mediocre stiff of a QB like Lemon here was most notable; and i bet you were one of those here who bristled with indignation when some were saying they might like to see Kackert get some playing time when Boyd was the everydown RB - yeah Boyd should have been annointed the Argos starrting RB forever with nobody else allowed to play and Lemon should still be the Argos starting QB. You don't like to hear opinions other than your narrow view of what the Argos should be like - as the coaches always know best and tell it to you.

You're right about one thing. Not worth discussing.bb

[Wobbler]

OV, are you drunk? Your post doesn't make much sense.

[OV Argo]

OV, are you drunk? Your post doesn't make much sense.


Not drunk (yet) - but please explain what you don't understand?

Foley is "horrible" and should be replaced on the Argos D? - can you grasp that he has led the CFL in sacks and all D-Linemen in tackles in a season before? Did some people defend Cory Boyd as a great RB when there was suggestions that Kackert share some playing time and after Boyd got cut? Foley gets called out as a weak link on a strong Argo D, but the likes of Horne, Flemons, Kuale, Armstead, McCune are A-OK as starters who should not be questioned or maybe candidates for upgrades ? - what have they accomplished in the CFL by comparison?

???

[ArgoRavi]

Doesn't the Argos' defensive performance this year support the notion that the likes of Horne, Flemons, Kuale, Armstead and McCune are playing well? As for Foley, while he hasn't been as noticable this year, I believe that he is doing what he is being asked to do, even if he has griped about it a little. It is great that Foley led the league in sacks three years ago and tackles last year but it doesn't really matter much this season.

[Midnight Blue]

Doesn't the Argos' defensive performance this year support the notion that the likes of Horne, Flemons, Kuale, Armstead and McCune are playing well? As for Foley, while he hasn't been as noticable this year, I believe that he is doing what he is being asked to do, even if he has griped about it a little. It is great that Foley led the league in sacks three years ago and tackles last year but it doesn't really matter much this season.


I agree, this Defense is playing well; it is what Championships are made of.

It will only get better.

[Mulder]

Where did Ricky Foley's Twitter account go?

[matchuk]

Where did Ricky Foley's Twitter account go?

yeah, seriously....i just noticed that too

[argotom]

I agree, this Defense is playing well; it is what Championships are made of.

It will only get better.

Except some of our DB's who have been horrid.

[Will]

Except some of our DB's who have been horrid.

Our secondary has been very good this year. Sure they occasionally allow the long bomb, but that's the risk associated with Jones' defense. If it's anything on the D I'm concerned with it's the run D.

[ArgoRavi]

Except some of our DB's who have been horrid.

I would be curious to know which ones you think have been horrid, AT. I think they have all played very well.

[AngeloV]

Except some of our DB's who have been horrid.

What games have you been watching?

[gilthethrill]

Hamilton could pursue Foley as a FA next season, they need help as we all know, but how attractive would that team be to sign with due to the unknown relocation (basically playing on the road next season, possibly beyond due to potential stadium construction delays). I could see Ricky return, but at a reduced salary.

Another factor is 2012 draftee Cleon Laing. I know there are posters on this forum that have him written off already, but he could potentially contribute next season.

[paulwoods13]

Except some of our DB's who have been horrid.

Wow. Just wow.

[Mulder]

Hamilton could pursue Foley as a FA next season, they need help as we all know, but how attractive would that team be to sign with due to the unknown relocation (basically playing on the road next season, possibly beyond due to potential stadium construction delays). I could see Ricky return, but at a reduced salary.

Another factor is 2012 draftee Cleon Laing. I know there are posters on this forum that have him written off already, but he could potentially contribute next season.

I don't see Foley back next season. Attitude on the sideline seems to point to him being let walk. Production down, upset at coaches, etc. Looks lost under Chris Jones's defence IMO.

He could end up in Hamilton. Maybe only because of his passport.

[argotom]

The worst coverage comes to mind at the second last game when Carroll took all those stupid penalties and cost the team the win.
One long bomb he had his back turned to the play and with the ball way overthrown he pushed the receiver out of bounds and all he had to do was turn around see the ball wasn't anywhere close and that's the end of the play.

[argotom]

Wow. Just wow.

What do you mean?
Have you been at the dome and watched some of them in cover like I have?

[Will]

The Argos rank second in passing yards allowed. Again, the Jones defense sometimes will give up the big play.


The worst coverage comes to mind at the second last game when Carroll took all those stupid penalties and cost the team the win.
One long bomb he had his back turned to the play and with the ball way overthrown he pushed the receiver out of bounds and all he had to do was turn around see the ball wasn't anywhere close and that's the end of the play.

Then he bounced back and won defensive player of the week.

Allow me to put it another way: is there any particular defender who has caught your eye and has been torched on a weekly or regular basis?

[doubleblue]

Hamilton could pursue Foley as a FA next season, they need help as we all know, but how attractive would that team be to sign with due to the unknown relocation (basically playing on the road next season, possibly beyond due to potential stadium construction delays). I could see Ricky return, but at a reduced salary.

Another factor is 2012 draftee Cleon Laing. I know there are posters on this forum that have him written off already, but he could potentially contribute next season.

Yeah, I think Ricky's done in TO. Whether it's before the end of this season or as a FA in the off season.

As I had mentioned before several weeks ago, I watched some of the Iowa State spring game online. Cleon Laing will be a starter this year at DT and looked to me to have the quickness to play in the CFL. He certainly has the size, about 6'04 290, reminded me of Armstead. One play really caught my eye, he knifed through between pulling guards and cut down the RB for a 3 yard loss on a sweep. That showed me something. I think he will definitely play in the league. Hopefully, the NFL doesn't grab him first.

[ArgoGabe22]

Not sure if Foley would go Hamilton, look at what happened to Baggs? They didn't use him to rush and played him to play coverage which angered him as well. Foley most likely will go West. I can see him landing in Calgary, who will then have to dump Baggs.

[Mulder]

Not sure if Foley would go Hamilton, look at what happened to Baggs? They didn't use him to rush and played him to play coverage which angered him as well. Foley most likely will go West. I can see him landing in Calgary, who will then have to dump Baggs.

I had the feeling Calgary as well.

[ArgoRavi]

I guess that means that Area 51's next stop will be either the Ticats' fan forum or Calgary's.

[AngeloV]

The worst coverage comes to mind at the second last game when Carroll took all those stupid penalties and cost the team the win.
One long bomb he had his back turned to the play and with the ball way overthrown he pushed the receiver out of bounds and all he had to do was turn around see the ball wasn't anywhere close and that's the end of the play.

Again, what are you talking about? Was there a broken coverage, yes. But when he realized how wide open the receiver was, he was in chase mode. You make it sound like making the play there was as easy as simply turning around. He had no idea where the ball was and likely feared that if he tuned around, he would lose the receiver.

[argotom]

The Argos rank second in passing yards allowed. Again, the Jones defense sometimes will give up the big play.



Then he bounced back and won defensive player of the week.

Allow me to put it another way: is there any particular defender who has caught your eye and has been torched on a weekly or regular basis?



I have said how some of the DB's have been burned and badly.
I know it's Jones' schemes, however at times I don't get it as they also play soft at times and off coverage on the line and allow the short underneath stuff.
Meanwhile, Watkins has by and large had a great year and reminds me so much like Brandon Brouwner.
Hope we can keep him next year.

[argotom]

Again, what are you talking about? Was there a broken coverage, yes. But when he realized how wide open the receiver was, he was in chase mode. You make it sound like making the play there was as easy as simply turning around. He had no idea where the ball was and likely feared that if he tuned around, he would lose the receiver.


It's more like what are you talking about.
We were all saying at the dome how he not only looked lost on this one play and didn' t know his sorroundings as the ball was not catchable.
But the entire game with other cover and the stupid penalties he would be lucky to be back the next week.
And he was, with a slightly better game and his pick six in the Hammer.

[AngeloV]

It's more like what are you talking about.
We were all saying at the dome how he not only looked lost on this one play and didn' t know his sorroundings as the ball was not catchable.
But the entire game with other cover and the stupid penalties he would be lucky to be back the next week.
And he was, with a slightly better game and his pick six in the Hammer.

No use carrying on with this discussion. As PW13 said...WOW.

[ArgoRavi]

It's more like what are you talking about.
We were all saying at the dome how he not only looked lost on this one play and didn' t know his sorroundings as the ball was not catchable.
But the entire game with other cover and the stupid penalties he would be lucky to be back the next week.
And he was, with a slightly better game and his pick six in the Hammer.

He had a very strong game in Hamilton and has only had one bad game all year.

[paulwoods13]

What do you mean?
Have you been at the dome and watched some of them in cover like I have?

Yes, I have been there and I have watched closely.

To suggest some of our DBs have been horrid is absurd. If that's the case, how would you describe the DBs for Sask, Wpg, Cal, Mtl and (gasp) Ham?

Even the best DBs are gonna get beaten from time to time, especially in man coverage. There are some great receivers in this league and sometimes they win the battles. But we have "horrid" DBs? Really?

[OV Argo]

Hamilton could pursue Foley as a FA next season, they need help as we all know, but how attractive would that team be to sign with due to the unknown relocation (basically playing on the road next season, possibly beyond due to potential stadium construction delays). I could see Ricky return, but at a reduced salary.

Another factor is 2012 draftee Cleon Laing. I know there are posters on this forum that have him written off already, but he could potentially contribute next season.


Laing is a DT, wheras Foley is a DE, so it's not like Laing is about to beat Foley out for a job - unless it's as a generic, token, little used back-up "NI D-Lineman". Maybe Laing shows up for the Argos, comes up strong and claims some playing time - i'll believe it when i see it = when has a NI played at DT for the Argos in the past few years.

Maybe Lee comes on strong, claims a starter job and makes Foley expendable; or maybe Foley evolves into a fit on this Argo D as his talent might be expected to - and they could, gasp, have 2 starting NI DEs, with Flemons replaced; i'll believe that scenario when i see it though - don't think it's much of a possibilty with this coaching staff; and the Argos DBs have hardly been "horrid" at all this year - a very strong unit IMO on a solid Argo D; Horne is young and maybe iffy as a starter at this point - i believe Mat Black could be playing more reps over him; Foley OTOH - has been "horrible" though, so i could see the DBs being labelled "horrid" as another opinion.

[ArgoRavi]

Laing is a DT, wheras Foley is a DE, so it's not like Laing is about to beat Foley out for a job - unless it's as a generic, token, little used back-up "NI D-Lineman". Maybe Laing shows up for the Argos, comes up strong and claims some playing time - i'll believe it when i see it = when has a NI played at DT for the Argos in the past few years.

Jeff Keeping was a starting DT in 2005 and Adriano Belli started at that position for the Argos from 2007 to 2010. Noah Cantor also played there until he retired after the '04 or '05 season but didn't he come out of retirement in '06? Anyway, for most of the past decade, the Argos have had a NI DT.

[1argoholic]

The whole team seems to have growing pains but we're still 6-4. Every week it seems to be different issues. One week we shut down the run like we did to Cornish. Then we allow some back to run wild and free. Then Carroll has a horrible game but comes back strong. One week we have a boatload of penalties then we're ok. It's not like one part of the team keeps playing like crap. Issues come and go and then seem to come back again and yet we're still doing enough to be sitting at 6-4 and in first in the east. Now when it comes to underachieving players the name that comes to mind over everyone at this point is Foley. The guy is a great athlete and should be able to adjust to his new roll. He was a decathlete in university. So it must be a mental block or issue with him. Perhaps he's just not happy in his new roll.
Even Watt and Bradwell have shown they can play. I'm starting to like our depth. I guess you could say that our O line has been a struggle since day one. This will be a great test this week.

[jerrym]

When I saw 57 comments beside the thread "David Lee" I thought there would be new information on him or at least a discussion about his merits or flaws going on and therefore I should look at this again today. However, the last comment to refer to him (as nearly as I can see) was #23. I haven't got a problem with anything being discussed about the Argos at this site, but if the issues being discussed, such as the Argo defence in general or Foley or whatever, have no obvious relation to the thread title, I suggest that it might be better to create a new thread with a title more related to what is being discussed. While I understand there is an advantage to having a free-wheeling discussion going in whatever direction it goes, there are I think significant advantages to trying to stay on topic or creating another topic if the current one doesn't seem to fit the thread. Am I the only person who thinks this way?

[Mulder]

When I saw 57 comments beside the thread "David Lee" I thought there would be new information on him or at least a discussion about his merits or flaws going on and therefore I should look at this again today. However, the last comment to refer to him (as nearly as I can see) was #23. I haven't got a problem with anything being discussed about the Argos at this site, but if the issues being discussed, such as the Argo defence in general or Foley or whatever, have no obvious relation to the thread title, I suggest that it might be better to create a new thread with a title more related to what is being discussed. While I understand there is an advantage to having a free-wheeling discussion going in whatever direction it goes, there are I think significant advantages to trying to stay on topic or creating another topic if the current one doesn't seem to fit the thread. Am I the only person who thinks this way?

The flow of discussion kind of went this way. Topic of David Lee went into Ricky Foley hence they play the same position so it is related. I can split them if someone else thinks so?

[Wobbler]

Please don't. In my opinion, a light touch is best. Appending the thread title to "David Lee (and Ricky Foley)" is the most I would recommend.

[1argoholic]

Wobbler I like your post, short and straight to the point.

[ArgoGabe22]

Where did Ricky Foley's Twitter account go?

He's back to crticize Milt lol "Hey Ringless Milt...I'm sacrificing stats 4 TEAM success, maybe if U weren't so concerned with PERSONAL stats U'd have a ring". <s>#</s>cfl (https://twitter.com/search/?q=%23cfl&src=hash) <s>#</s>tsn (https://twitter.com/search/?q=%23tsn&src=hash)

[NelsonP204]

Business is about to pick up on the Foley twitter account it looks like. I thought he was all done after those late night tweets that were pretty confusing and I have been really disappointed with the contribution that Foley has made on the D. I understand that the scheme might eliminate him pass rushing on some plays but to be doing his invisible man routine is just not cool. We need to get more pressure on the F'n QB and it would seem that Foley would be the guy to do that .

[ArgoRavi]

He's back to crticize Milt lol "Hey Ringless Milt...I'm sacrificing stats 4 TEAM success, maybe if U weren't so concerned with PERSONAL stats U'd have a ring". <s>#</s>cfl (https://twitter.com/search/?q=%23cfl&src=hash) <s>#</s>tsn (https://twitter.com/search/?q=%23tsn&src=hash)

Well, if Foley has truly accepted that role, then that is a step forward.

[gilthethrill]

I noticed on Sunday Foley was running out in the flat to cover Victor Anderson.