September 23rd 2012: Toronto Argonauts vs. Montreal Alouettes

[T-Bone]

http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/tor.png vs. http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/mtl.png

Week 13
Sunday, September 23rd 2012 at 1:00pm ET.
Percival Molson Memorial Stadium. Montreal, QC.

TV: TSN (http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/feature/?id=508)
TSN Mobile TV: Details Here (http://www.tsn.ca/mobiletv/)
Radio: TSN Radio 1050 (http://www.tsn.ca/radio/feature/?id=43622)
Audio Webcast: TSN Radio 1050 (http://www.tsn.ca/Toronto/listen/)

US Viewing:
Video Webcast: ESPN3 (http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index/_/channel/espn3)

Depth Chart: Here (http://www.argonauts.ca/depthchart/list/team/7/year/2012)

Away Game Viewing: Shoeless Joe's (276 King St. W. Toronto, ON) (https://www.facebook.com/events/456705151040899/)

Post Game: Ray Hurt as Argos Lose Big in Montreal (http://www.argonauts.ca/article/ray-hurt-as-argos-lose-big-in-montreal)

[Will]

Correction, T-Bone:

Away Game Viewing: Percival Molson Stadium

[marcwagz]

this game will determine beast in the east
especially if montreal wins this day

[T-Bone]

Correction, T-Bone:

Away Game Viewing: Percival Molson Stadium
For you, Argocister, and I. Anyone else going? The viewing party at Sholess Joe's is an official event put on by the Argos.

[DanTheFan]

I'm not going to this one, but I bought 4 tickets for when Montreal come to town in October while I was at the Jays game. Also, I'm seriously thinking about buying an Argos zip-up hoodie when attending that game.

[gilthethrill]

According to TSN, both Brian Bratton & Brandon Whittaker won't play Sunday due to injuries suffered in the win against the Washington Federals..I mean Saskatchewan Roughriders.

[flafson]

They are a whole different side without Whittaker, hope it's true.

[1argoholic]

Montreal is beatable and I think we'll take em. The guys looked down but pumped after the loss. I think this loss could help down the road starting with Montreal. At the hotel you could see they really wanted that win on Sat. Can you say motivation!
Huge game as we've already beat Montreal. We were very close in ending the BC Place drought which sadly noe stands at 10 games. As I've mentioned they haven't won here since we moved to BC. However we don't do great at Molson Stadium either but this is our year.

[294life]

Anderson can replace Whitaker as he's done in Edmonton quite effectively and Brandon London is slated to return. Should be another nailbiter to the end.

[jerrym]

While Anderson is a capable replacement for Whitaker, last year's leading rusher, he is not of the same caliber as Whitaker, when he's healthy. The Alouettes, while still a good team, are not the dominant team they once were, so the Argos have a decent chance of beating them.

[ArgoRavi]

While Anderson is a capable replacement for Whitaker, last year's leading rusher, he is not of the same caliber as Whitaker, when he's healthy. The Alouettes, while still a good team, are not the dominant team they once were, so the Argos have a decent chance of beating them.

The other thing about Montreal is that nobody knows how to defend against Calvillo better than Chris Jones does. He has had as much success against Calvillo as any defensive coordinator in the league.

[294life]

The other thing about Montreal is that nobody knows how to defend against Calvillo better than Chris Jones does. He has had as much success against Calvillo as any defensive coordinator in the league.

Sad but true.

No one will have to worry about Whitaker the rest of the year. Torn ACL. Requires surgery.

[Mulder]

Whittaker is done for the year with a torn ACL. This could turn out to be really bad for Montreal.

[AngeloV]

Whittaker is done for the year with a torn ACL. This could turn out to be really bad for Montreal.

That's too bad. He's a really good and underrated player. Hope he can recover for next year.

[294life]

Whittaker is done for the year with a torn ACL. This could turn out to be really bad for Montreal.

Anderson will do fine in his stead. No worries.

[argolio]

Anderson will do fine in his stead. No worries.He's talented, but there is always an adjustment going from back-up to starter, and not every player can handle it.

[1argoholic]

I hate seeing guys get badly injured no matter the team.

[jerrym]

Does anyone know if Durie will be available for Montreal. The Argo offence is missing him as a receiver, and he could provide the occasional alternative on running plays.

[294life]

He's talented, but there is always an adjustment going from back-up to starter, and not every player can handle it.

He handled it fine in Edmonton. Als signed two more RBs just in case.

[gilthethrill]

He handled it fine in Edmonton. Als signed two more RBs just in case.

Edmontons's defence does not measure up to the Argos.....as witnessed first hand last Saturday. Anderson will be shut down.

[gman]

Whatever happened to the case against Edawn Coughman? I know he got cut from practice squad in Seattle. Is he coming back to CFL?

[1argoholic]

He likes to carry a gun so much he's becoming a cop.

[Wobbler]

Durie and Kackert both took first-team reps in practice today and looked good (according to Landry and Scianitti on Twitter). Personnel-wise we should be in good shape on Sunday.

[Mulder]

The wife just gave me permission to goto this game. Oh no.

[294life]

The wife just gave me permission to goto this game. Oh no.

that's never good :eek:

[jerrym]

Durie and Kackert both took first-team reps in practice today and looked good (according to Landry and Scianitti on Twitter). Personnel-wise we should be in good shape on Sunday.

Thanks for the info. The Winnipeg victory tonight gives the Argos a little more breathing room against Hamilton in the standings. However, I'm not counting Winnipeg in the playoff race out as they are only two wins behind the Argos and looked good. The big question for them is how long can Pierce stay healthy.

[Wobbler]

However, I'm not counting Winnipeg in the playoff race out as they are only two wins behind...
I'm counting them out. They are three wins behind, we lead the season series, and they're a terrible team.

[294life]

Well they did all of us a favor tonight by keeping the Cats at bay. Thank you Bombers.

[Ron]

Winnipeg isn't chasing us really. They are fighting to stop the crossover. Barring a complete breakdown (that doesn't seem likely) the Argos have locked up 2nd at least.

[bluto]

Depth chart is up.

Kackert is back, Durie is not.

http://www.argonauts.ca/depthchart/game/depthid/9797

[1argoholic]

This Durie injury is dragging. I didn't think it was that bad.

[jerrym]

I'm counting them out. They are three wins behind, we lead the season series, and they're a terrible team.

I was referring to Winnipeg's chances of making the playoffs - they have to catch up with the two game lead of the bottom western teams to prevent crossover keeping them from making the playoffs even if they beat out Hamilton.

[jerrym]

The Argos have to have substantially more running plays against Montreal than the five (and only one in the second half) that Riggs got or else Montreal will concede a few good gains to Kackert as they did with Riggs in return for focusing almost entirely on getting to Ray. This approach only compounded the problem with the Argo's offensive line, leading to Ray being rushed in his throws and getting hit many times and to a weak offence with few sustained marches and only a couple of long pass completions. Other teams will take the same approach until the Argo ground game makes them pay for it. Kackert has shown he is capable of doing that - let's hope Milanovich uses his running skills.

[Wobbler]

I was referring to Winnipeg's chances of making the playoffs - they have to catch up with the two game lead of the bottom western teams to prevent crossover keeping them from making the playoffs even if they beat out Hamilton.
Ah - I misread that. I still think they are a terrible team with very little chance of making the playoffs, but it's at least possible.

[ArgoRavi]

Ah - I misread that. I still think they are a terrible team with very little chance of making the playoffs, but it's at least possible.

The Bombers are 7-17 since the beginning of September, 2011. They simply are not a good team IMO and I too can't see them making the playoffs.

[argonaut11xx]

Very excited to watch the game today...FIRST Argo game as a happily married man....The best man from my wedding last saturday is still here, and we are going to enjoy BREAKFAST BEERS...and an Argo game...my beautiful new wife, lil Bec, is cooking up some yummy chow for us, and fetching us cold ones on cue...

That ll said, i think this is going to be a real statement game for the Argo's...either the Argo's take control of the east today...or they head straight into a log-jam.

I only wish there was some CFL pregame show i could watch....

[Wobbler]

Today's scratches (according to Mike Hogan): JFG, Cohen, Riggs, Carroll. The last one is surprising, coming after his INT last week.

[294life]

Awesome tailgate in Montreal. Makes me wish for a tie.

[KCargosfan]

Very excited to watch the game today...FIRST Argo game as a happily married man....The best man from my wedding last saturday is still here, and we are going to enjoy BREAKFAST BEERS...and an Argo game...my beautiful new wife, lil Bec, is cooking up some yummy chow for us, and fetching us cold ones on cue...

That ll said, i think this is going to be a real statement game for the Argo's...either the Argo's take control of the east today...or they head straight into a log-jam.

I only wish there was some CFL pregame show i could watch....

Congrats on the wedding!

[Wobbler]

Ugh. Phantom facemask call on the second play of the game, probably caused by our reputation. We're the Oakland Raiders of the CFL.

[argonaut11xx]

nice first drive by the Al's....(facemask?...geesh)

lets hope our offence can answer back with 7 pts right away...

[jerrym]

Another totally unnecessary penalty leading to a first down and ultimately a TD for the opposition. This has to change or they will go nowhere in this game or the playoffs.

[argonaut11xx]

OH SH#T....Ricky is in the locker room....

Lets hope Jackson can hold the fort.....looks like he and Inman have some chemistry

[Invader]

I missed it, what happened to Ray?

[Ballstothewall]

I think, its going to be a long afternoon for the Argos

[argonaut11xx]

I missed it, what happened to Ray?

one of our O-Lineman rolled on Ray's leg...

[Ballstothewall]

Should have had that fumble, the Football God's are not on our side this afternoon

[Bleeds Double Blue]

When you have a team pinned deep in their own zone, especially on second down, you have to hold them to a punt. Calvillo runs for a first down. Same thing in the BC game. Just once I'd like to see the other team punt from their end zone.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

It's not the Football Gods, it's two phantom calls leading to touchdowns. Nice block by that zebra on the first TD by the way.

[Gill The Thrill]

Replying with FG's to answer Montreal's TD's is not going to get the Argos far in this game....Would the Defense also get a hand on Calvillo for crying out loud...the guy is playing catch at the park right now.

This is the problem I have with a defense that purposefully lays back and does not pass rush. (Chris Jones Defense)...it's not punishing enough. The sack totals are the worst in the league...Yeah, they hold their own, but when you need to start shutting down a hot QB, like Calvillo, not an inconsistent joke like Burris, then the potential to be blown out is possible.

I want to see a solid defense that can be productive at the line and not just a defence that can force the garbage QB's to throw interceptions to your secondary....Calvillo is not a garbage QB, he's smart and avoids interceptions better than anyone in the league. I just think this Defence is too predictable and only catered to only provide stats for Robert McCune and not to the team as a whole.

[Wobbler]

We've been a bit unlucky, but the biggest problem is that we're just not playing well enough.

[Ballstothewall]

It's not the Football Gods, it's two phantom calls leading to touchdowns. Nice block by that zebra on the first TD by the way.

Can't blame this all on the the ref's. You could not ask for a easier fumble recovery that they blew, drop passes, bad snaps and too many penalties already!!!

[Gill The Thrill]

Finally, Ball and TJ Williams do a good job to stop Anderson at the line, now just stop getting the penalties., it's killing them.

[Invader]

Sorry to hear about Ray's injury, hopefully he will be back soon. But with Jarious' arm, the Argos are still in the game. He can bring them back. The receivers will have to adjust to Jarious' rocket passes compared to Ray's softies, especially on the short passes...not one of JJ's fortes. The Argos need to go to an agressive intermediate/long passing attack and forget the 4 yd passes.

[1argoholic]

FRUSTRATIOOOON! WOW this is difficult to watch. That Ball face mask was a farce. He grazed it. We could be in deep without Ricky moving the ball. If we keep having short drives the D won't leave the field. I think Ray will be out for a while. I'm with Matt and think it's a high ankle sprain. Those take time.
Let Foley loose and do what he does best.
I can't believe Milanovich stressed NO penalties and had guys wearing oven mitts all training camp and here we are by far the worst in the league. I had us winning 6 games this year and we're at that and I just hope we don't struggle bigtime with Ray down. We could go from hunting for first to holding on for dear life. You just never know what the heck is going to happen with this team and this crazy league.
Time for Guy to get a haircut. hahaha.

[KCargosfan]

What's the record for missed FGs returned for TDs?

[Ballstothewall]

As Dunigan said "Nightmarish. Sorry boys, but ain't going to happen today, not playing like this

[bluto]

from this point onward i don't care what the final outcome is... as long as i don't see any of the Argos quit


​gut-check time.

[Gill The Thrill]

The Argos are playing like a team that is content with their station in the league and within the city. They don't want to attract more attention with the performance that they're giving today. I think the Vikings game on CTV Winnipeg looks a little more appealing right now as they're my NFL team.

What's more disturbing is that the Argos are not getting pushed at all by Hamilton, who were dreadful on Friday in Winnipeg....What the hell is it with Southern Ontario CFL teams? They just refuse to seize an oppurtunity to build consistent teams and capture the imagination of the market...The Argos are improved, but they will be 6-6 after today, and just 4-5 when you remove their Hamilton games. The Ticats are only capable of winning one every 3 games because that's par for Burris' consistency.

I would love to see the Argos come back today and am still watching but I doubt they will...hope I'm wrong though.

Will the east ever be stronger than the west in terms of team records...sure the Argos swept the Stamps but conversely lost both their games to the Eskies this year.

[1argoholic]

DONE!!!! Yah our Vikings were winning against San Fran.

This team is no were near elite. Same issues have been here all year long. Barker is content with what we have so lets just get on the roller coaster and continue the ride. By the way I hate roller coasters. Just sayin.

I told many guys that I was very proud in how they played last week. Good thing I'm not going to see them this week.

[Gill The Thrill]

Any concerns about Swayze Waters going to the National Football League can be put to bed...he's too inconsistent.

When he's on, he's as good as anybody but when he is off and he is off today, he can be pretty bad....3 missed FG's, one run back for a TD....maybe he does not have experience kicking in chillier weather being from the American South...who knows.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Another missed field goal followed by a 40 yard reception. It's channel changing time.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

Just turned on the Jays game and they are losing too. Thank God the Leafs are not playing.

[Gill The Thrill]

Just turned on the Jays game and they are losing too. Thank God the Leafs are not playing.

Any meaningful pennant race baseball games on...not Jays games...lol. The Jays have been losing since July.

MLB coverage is a joke, can you believe that Yankees/Athletics game was not on TV at all yesterday. Canada's sports channels had a bevy of US college football games from week 3 and some poker....great..you could tell Rogers runs broadcasting in Canada when the only baseball available to watch features their lousy team.

Back to the Argos....31-7, stick a fork in 'em they're done....turning point, possibly the opening kickoff but surely Ricky Ray hobbling off the field.

Gill The Thrill, over and out.

[Ballstothewall]

We picked off a pass and made a 1st down after that. Here we come.............. NOT

[bluto]

... Barker is content with what we have so lets just get on the roller coaster and continue the ride...

i can't even fathom the chain of logic that connects this team's current issues and any moves that Barker has (or hasn't) made.

please explain?

[jerrym]

I had to take my youngest son to a swim practice after the score reached 10-0. Returned when the score was 31-7. Thank heavens for small (or should I say big) mercies.

[bluto]

first place was on the line and we were never actually in the game.

Milanovich has major work to be done before the playoffs arrive... October 14th gives us a shot at redemption, i hope that the team shows up for that one, because too many of them went AWOL after a poor start today.

big step backwards today.

[paulwoods13]

That's two weeks in a row where it was sorely evident the Argos are not in the same league as the Lions and now the Als. A major part of that is that they are weak on both lines of scrimmage. No pass rush and poor pass blocking. Foley looks completely lost out there, but he's only about 10% of the scrimmage line deficiencies.

Fortunately we are still in good position to host the ESF, but we need to get the ship righted next week and cannot count on winning all those home games in October. As far as I can see there is B.C. and Montreal, and then everyone else, so there's no reason we can't still win four out of six and finish 10-8. And maybe, just maybe, we'll be gelling at the right time, without the penalty parade and with guys squeezing passes instead of dropping them. If all that happens, we could be back in Montreal for the EF, and in a one-game winner-take-all situation, maybe luck will be on our side. But realistically, getting a home playoff game should be our first objective, then winning it. If we do both of those things, we can consider this a successful season at the start of the rebuild into a long-term contender.

[argotom]

A total team effort, bad that is.
I thought for sure especially after the last game in Montreal this was our game to be had.
Too many big plays given up by the special team, DB's poor coverage way too many long bombs, the line including Foley was full of cheese and with Ray injured Jackson actually wasn't all that bad with his rust.

[jerrym]

This team is no where near elite. Same issues have been here all year long. Barker is content with what we have so lets just get on the roller coaster and continue the ride.

Not only is this team nowhere near elite, they seem complacent. While I have never favoured NFL airlifts, I do think the Argos do not need to bring in a few players at positions where play has been inadequate and to create some competition, especially the offensive line which has rarely done a good job of protecting Ray. The D line rarely gets pressure (never mind sacks) and needs to find at least one player who can create pressure. It also seemed to allow Montreal to run at will even when it was obvious that was Montreal's intention. I know it was the end of the game, but if complacency has set in on a less than elite team, it will soon be starting down the road to being a loser. However, you're right that this seems to go against Barker's nature. This team has to fight all the way to improve, let alone win.

[jerrym]

Does anybody know how seriously Ray is injured?

[1argoholic]

Bluto, Barker has said that he likes the talent he has this year but we just have to find the right combinations. That's where my comment comes from. He has done squat since camp in trying to bring in players who might help or push others. The concerns we've had all year are still there. Both lines, import receivers except Owens and Inman. Penalty issues are a whole different kettle of fish and now kicking issues have come up again. Personally I think we need to bring in some import receivers to push Barnes, Rambo and Mann. All three have done little. Perhaps some D line help and O line if that's even possible.

It all comes down to if Barker sees this team as in building mode for the next few years or if he wants to go all out for a Grey Cup run this year. I don't believe the way this team is playing that they can win the Grey Cup this year. I didn't expect it going in but I've had hopes at times this year. Today brought reality back into the picture bigtime. It was a lifeless effort and I knew we were done from Montreals opening drive.
Winnipeg will not be easy next week. I wouldn't be surprised if that so called bottom feeder doesn't beat us. They'll be sending the house on our swiss cheese O line. I can't see Ray being ready as he was in street clothes pretty quick today.
I don't need to hear that I"m in panic mode it's just how I feel with watching the same sort of stuff unfold game after game. You can't continue to keep drives going for teams with dumb penalties. Frustrating last few weeks. I guess we are were I thought we'd be with so many changes this year. Deep down I always hope for more however.

I do think Barker must look at bringing in a few guys at needed positions. He said out of camp that he always tries to upgrade. Well I haven't seen that. He's Mr. Stand Pat Barker from what I see.

[ArgoRavi]

Bluto, Barker has said that he likes the talent he has this year but we just have to find the right combinations. That's where my comment comes from. He has done squat since camp in trying to bring in players who might help or push others. The concerns we've had all year are still there. Both lines, import receivers except Owens and Inman. Penalty issues are a whole different kettle of fish and now kicking issues have come up again. Personally I think we need to bring in some import receivers to push Barnes, Rambo and Mann. All three have done little. Perhaps some D line help and O line if that's even possible.

It all comes down to if Barker sees this team as in building mode for the next few years or if he wants to go all out for a Grey Cup run this year. I don't believe the way this team is playing that they can win the Grey Cup this year. I didn't expect it going in but I've had hopes at times this year. Today brought reality back into the picture bigtime. It was a lifeless effort and I knew we were done from Montreals opening drive.
Winnipeg will not be easy next week. I wouldn't be surprised if that so called bottom feeder doesn't beat us. They'll be sending the house on our swiss cheese O line. I can't see Ray being ready as he was in street clothes pretty quick today.
I don't need to hear that I"m in panic mode it's just how I feel with watching the same sort of stuff unfold game after game. You can't continue to keep drives going for teams with dumb penalties. Frustrating last few weeks. I guess we are were I thought we'd be with so many changes this year. Deep down I always hope for more however.

I do think Barker must look at bringing in a few guys at needed positions. He said out of camp that he always tries to upgrade. Well I haven't seen that. He's Mr. Stand Pat Barker from what I see.

You didn't expect much from the Argos this year because of all the changes that they made and yet you want them to make more changes now? At this point in the season, you have to go with the guys who know the system. They still have Demario Ballard on the PR. Perhaps they should give him a shot in the receiving corps or try Barnes again. Getting Durie back into the lineup won't hurt either. If we want to make changes to the defensive line, we have the likes of Summers and Cohen waiting in the wings. Again, these guys already know the system. Bringing in guys from the NFL at this point won't do us any good and, quite frankly, is unnecessary IMO when there are players who have been around all season or at least for a few weeks (see Joel Reinders) who we can plug in and give a shot to. Yes, this team isn't quite ready to win a Grey Cup but that doesn't mean that they can't get there over the next two months.

[ArgoRavi]

Any concerns about Swayze Waters going to the National Football League can be put to bed...he's too inconsistent.

When he's on, he's as good as anybody but when he is off and he is off today, he can be pretty bad....3 missed FG's, one run back for a TD....maybe he does not have experience kicking in chillier weather being from the American South...who knows.

Waters only missed two today although that was two too many. The FG unit was a killer for us today. We should have had an extra eight points off of FGs and not only did we not get those but gave up seven as well. That is a 15 point turnaround in a 21 point game.

The defence did not play well enough today but the reality is that you can only hope to contain Calvillo et al. and not stop them completely. You have to contain them and hopefully outplay Montreal on special teams while also scoring on offence yourself. The Argos didn't do any of that today. The Argos were able to move the ball fairly well between the 30 yard lines but that didn't do them much good.

[jerrym]

To cheer people up after all these negative comments (deserved for such a negative performance) I thought I'd mention that Owens is only 108 yards from his third consecutive 3,000 yard season and is leading the league in receiving.

[ArgoRavi]

Does anybody know how seriously Ray is injured?

Milanovich has told Matt Scianitti of the National Post that Ray is "day-to-day".

[jerrym]

Milanovich has told Matt Scianitti of the National Post that Ray is "day-to-day".

Thanks for the report.

[Invader]

In today's CFL players that are brought in now are just hopefuls for training camp next year. The Argos have backups in the system for virtually every position. It's not like in the past with the 32-man CFL rosters when the eastern teams used to routinely airlift in NFL cuts and have them start next week. Now with the crossover 7 or 8 wins won't get you into the playoffs. Teams have to recruit and develop players in training camp, even the Argos and Ticats.

[tc23]

Thanks for the report.

Wait until tomorrow !

[ArgoGabe22]

Milanovich has told Matt Scianitti of the National Post that Ray is "day-to-day".

Thanks for the update but its way too soon to see how bad the injury is but at least that means it isn't too serious. Day to day could change to 2-3 weeks. For example Buck Pierce was always day to day and then he's out for 5-6 weeks. I hope he comes back vs WPG but don't get too excited, i'm still expecting Jackson to start.

[Wobbler]

Ray was walking quite well for a guy with a knee injury. I'm sure he'll be thoroughly checked out, but I expect him back next week.

[Ron]

31-10

2 missed FG's if achieved?

1st miss: 31-13
2nd miss: 24-16


So if the kicker hit all two attempts (with no other changes) we'd have had a 24-16 loss in Montreal with Ray missing most of the game.

Yup ... that's just cause to say the team sucks.

[ArgoRavi]

31-10

2 missed FG's if achieved?

1st miss: 31-13
2nd miss: 24-16


So if the kicker hit all two attempts (with no other changes) we'd have had a 24-16 loss in Montreal with Ray missing most of the game.

Yup ... that's just cause to say the team sucks.

We did get one single point off of a missed FG so that would be 24-18 but let's not forget about the phantom facemasking call at the beginning of the game which turned a Montreal two-and-out into a TD so that would make it an 18-17 Argo victory. ;)

[Bleeds Double Blue]

The phantom facemasking penalty was deep in Montreal territory. They still marched the length of the field to score after that. Good teams learn to rise against adversity. How about the next time a team gets a first down on a phantom call we stuff them on the next series with a two and out instead of giving up a 35 yard pass? Montreal went down the field after that penalty like the Michigan band.

[1argoholic]

I was obviously watching another game than most on here. They got killed. I see the sugar is being spread thick again. If this or if that, come on they looked horrible. Ravi I don't care if they have to bring guys in or try guys on the pr but something has to be done. Obviously Barnes, Mann and Rambo haven't cut the mustard and I for one was very excited to have all three based on what they'd done in the past. Let's see some life and passion other than with Owens. I didn't expect much at the start of the year but that doesn't mean while watching I don't get into every down and hope like hell that they can somehow crush everyone. It sad as hell when you look forward all week long for a game and it's a train wreck. This was a huge step backwards and a reality check. Milanovich better have them ready for Winnipeg or they'll get beat again.

[paulwoods13]

As I said earlier, both of our lines have been dominated the last two weeks. There is no way to improve the o-line this year (unless Reinders suddenly starts pancaking guys in practice and gets activated and promoted to starter). As Ravi said, there are a couple of possible repacaements available on the d-line (Summers and Cohen, if he's healthy). I think the ends are a bigger problem than the tackles so Cohen is less likely to be used, IMO. Maybe Summers can do more than Flemons, and maybe Lee should be in there more than Foley (although Lee was in a fair bit today, including -- OV please note -- a few series at the same time as Foley).

Unfortunately, our biggest problems on the lines, IMO, are our starting non-imports. Parenteau is weak at RG (and Eppele was weak there before him). Val Zeyl has regressed a bit, IMO, but should still be a long-term RT. Keeping is adequate at centre but certainly no all-star. Foley, as I said earlier, looks lost out there at DE. It is pretty well impossible at this stage of the season to replace any of those guys with non-imports, so barring a ratio change elsewhere, we have who we have. It's probably enough to finish second in the East, and we might be good enough to win the ESF, but at this stage I think we probably are not going to contend for the Grey Cup until next season. Hope I'm wrong but back-to-back games against the Lions and Alouettes have demonstrated the gap pretty well, IMO.

[bluto]

As I said earlier, both of our lines have been dominated the last two weeks. There is no way to improve the o-line this year (unless Reinders suddenly starts pancaking guys in practice and gets activated and promoted to starter). As Ravi said, there are a couple of possible repacaements available on the d-line (Summers and Cohen, if he's healthy). I think the ends are a bigger problem than the tackles so Cohen is less likely to be used, IMO. Maybe Summers can do more than Flemons, and maybe Lee should be in there more than Foley (although Lee was in a fair bit today, including -- OV please note -- a few series at the same time as Foley).

Unfortunately, our biggest problems on the lines, IMO, are our starting non-imports. Parenteau is weak at RG (and Eppele was weak there before him). Val Zeyl has regressed a bit, IMO, but should still be a long-term RT. Keeping is adequate at centre but certainly no all-star. Foley, as I said earlier, looks lost out there at DE. It is pretty well impossible at this stage of the season to replace any of those guys with non-imports, so barring a ratio change elsewhere, we have who we have. It's probably enough to finish second in the East, and we might be good enough to win the ESF, but at this stage I think we probably are not going to contend for the Grey Cup until next season. Hope I'm wrong but back-to-back games against the Lions and Alouettes have demonstrated the gap pretty well, IMO.

not sure if Van Zeyl has regressed... or if he misses Robertson next to him...

[1argoholic]

Well said Paul and that comes to my comments earlier in this thread. It all comes down to if they want to try everything possible and throw it all out there for a shot this year. Why not try shaking things up a bit. Prime example is Lobendon and Ferri being picked up by Sask and helping. You never know unless you try. Same old same old isn't getting it done. I don't care if the guys are on our pr right now but it couldn't hurt to try. If we lose in Winnipeg next week I'll be surprised not to see some shake ups for the following week. Well after today I just hope for the best and that we can clean up our act. If we somehow cut down on penalties we're in every game. If we can continue building and tweek postions rather than huge changes we should be ok in the next few years. I'm just sick of seeing Montreal on top.

[Ron]

I was obviously watching another game than most on here. They got killed. I see the sugar is being spread thick again. If this or if that, come on they looked horrible. Ravi I don't care if they have to bring guys in or try guys on the pr but something has to be done. Obviously Barnes, Mann and Rambo haven't cut the mustard and I for one was very excited to have all three based on what they'd done in the past. Let's see some life and passion other than with Owens. I didn't expect much at the start of the year but that doesn't mean while watching I don't get into every down and hope like hell that they can somehow crush everyone. It sad as hell when you look forward all week long for a game and it's a train wreck. This was a huge step backwards and a reality check. Milanovich better have them ready for Winnipeg or they'll get beat again.

The point I was making (and Ravi) is that they were not as far out of it as many here seem to think. One or two plays and it's a different ball game. (Hell, just the one FG return changed everything) They did well considering they lost their #1 guy.

But that's just my opinion. I watch the games with far far far far far far far less passion than you do.

[Wobbler]

As I said earlier, both of our lines have been dominated the last two weeks. There is no way to improve the o-line this year (unless Reinders suddenly starts pancaking guys in practice and gets activated and promoted to starter). As Ravi said, there are a couple of possible repacaements available on the d-line (Summers and Cohen, if he's healthy). I think the ends are a bigger problem than the tackles so Cohen is less likely to be used, IMO. Maybe Summers can do more than Flemons, and maybe Lee should be in there more than Foley (although Lee was in a fair bit today, including -- OV please note -- a few series at the same time as Foley).
I remain amazed at your ability to monitor the line personnel and (presumably!) keep an eye on the offensive play too, Paul, and I don't dispute any of your observations. Do you think we've made a reasonable attempt to scheme around our mediocre O-Line this season? We've used TEs fairly often and emphasized the importance of pass-blocking by the RB, but I haven't seen many screens or shovel passes. Having Ray roll out occasionally would at least give the D something to think about.

[1argoholic]

They haven't been able to stop anyone all year on missed fieldgoals. Every game something gets returned on them whether it's a kickoff, missed fieldgoal or punt. You just have to give the other team seven before the game starts.

[Wobbler]

Actually we've been very good covering kickoffs this year and our punt coverage, which was erratic early in the year, has improved tremendously. Missed field goal coverage has been appalling, in part because I think we've missed more field goals this year than last (but I'm too lazy to check). Also, I think more teams are running out the ball against us because we've had problems, thus compounding the problem. But to be giving up huge returns on missed FGs this late in the season is pretty embarrassing. I'd like to hear O'Shea explain why this hasn't been fixed.

[1argoholic]

Can you imagine if with a healthy Ray this team put together a solid 60 minutes from top to bottom. It would be something special to see. I knew we'd be growing but I didn't expect the craziness and ups and downs. I really thought that we'd have the lowest penalty totals in the league with the way Milanovich stressed not taking them during camp. It is way easier for me to watch games live like last week other than on the couch the rest of the year. I got over bad games way faster when I'm in a stadium with a bunch of friends. Oh Well.

[tc23]

Argos await test results on Ray's injured knee
http://www.cfl.ca/article/argos-to-await-test-results-on-rays-injured-knee

[AngeloV]

All in all, a very tough game to watch today. From the first series in which a phantom face masking call kept the Als from going 2 and out, to the horrid FG kicking, to the poor pass rush.

My quick observations:
For all those that complain about the Ricky Ray check downs, how successful was the team forcing the ball down field today?
Ahmad Carroll was missed in the secondary, but considering the lack of pressure on AC, the secondary did ok.
Ricky Foley was once again invisible today. He had a chance to stop Calvillo on 2nd and long inside the 5 today, but appeared to take a lane at him for a sack, rather take an angle that would not have allowed him to run for a first down. I really think his lack of stats is having an effect on his decision making on the field.
I love Jarious Jackson as a back up QB, as he definitely has that quick strike ability. But I don't see him as the QB to sustain drives, especially now that his running ability isn't what it once was.
Swayze Waters is now 4-10 from beyond 39 yards. Frankly, that's not good enough. His punting and kickoffs have been excellent, but he needs to get better on FG's.
I thought the o-line actually played pretty well today. For the most part, Argos had plenty of time to pass, just didn't do it well.
Chad Owens is having a great season. He made one fantastic catch today, and along with his speed, runs great routes. No idea what the OC was thinking the last 2 years playing him at wide side receiver. That plain and simple is lack of recognition of your own personnel.
Markus Ball is also having a great season.

Assuming Ray is healthy, I like the chances of winning 5 of the last 6 games. A home win over the Als, and gaining 1 game on them over the rest of the season, and the Argos will finish first.

[ArgoRavi]

Regarding the right guard spot which has been the most troublesome spot on the offensive line, Gord Miller today mentioned that Joe Eppele has been battling a shoulder injury since the third week of the season. That would explain his spotty play this year after performing quite well over the final third of the season last year. Hopefully we see Joel Reinders in that spot soon and hopefully that solidifies the offensive line but only time will tell. Marc Parenteau doesn't seem to be the answer and I think he too has been hampered by injuries this season.

[ArgoRavi]

All in all, a very tough game to watch today. From the first series in which a phantom face masking call kept the Als from going 2 and out, to the horrid FG kicking, to the poor pass rush.

My quick observations:
For all those that complain about the Ricky Ray check downs, how successful was the team forcing the ball down field today?
Ahmad Carroll was missed in the secondary, but considering the lack of pressure on AC, the secondary did ok.
Ricky Foley was once again invisible today. He had a chance to stop Calvillo on 2nd and long inside the 5 today, but appeared to take a lane at him for a sack, rather take an angle that would not have allowed him to run for a first down. I really think his lack of stats is having an effect on his decision making on the field.
I love Jarious Jackson as a back up QB, as he definitely has that quick strike ability. But I don't see him as the QB to sustain drives, especially now that his running ability isn't what it once was.
Swayze Waters is now 4-10 from beyond 39 yards. Frankly, that's not good enough. His punting and kickoffs have been excellent, but he needs to get better on FG's.
I thought the o-line actually played pretty well today. For the most part, Argos had plenty of time to pass, just didn't do it well.
Chad Owens is having a great season. He made one fantastic catch today, and along with his speed, runs great routes. No idea what the OC was thinking the last 2 years playing him at wide side receiver. That plain and simple is lack of recognition of your own personnel.
Markus Ball is also having a great season.

Assuming Ray is healthy, I like the chances of winning 5 of the last 6 games. A home win over the Als, and gaining 1 game on them over the rest of the season, and the Argos will finish first.

Good observations as usual, Angelo. I don't believe that things are as bleak as some feel but having a healthy Ray is critical. I know exactly which play you are talking about regarding Foley and I too was disappointed in how he handled that play. Furthermore, I watched him in other situations where his responsibility was to simply rush the QB as he likes to do and he generated no pass rush. I agree with you on Waters. Our field goal kicking has cost us at least a couple of games this season and played an important role in this loss although the bad snap by Rempel can't be hung on Waters. I thought that it was interesting that Dunigan said that he likes the upside of our o-line despite the amount of criticism that it has received. Regarding Carroll, he was apparently a healthy scratch.

[1argoholic]

I hope Ray is ok but having had knee issues it doesn't take much to create a ton of pain and make one not so mobile and that's just landscaping not running for your life. He'd be a sitting duck. We could have some issues if he has to miss a few games. But Jackson has to be prepared and possibly you change things up a bit for him. Move him out of the pocket more. We'll see I just hope we have a good week of prep before headed to Winnipeg.

[gilthethrill]

Can someone explain why Carroll, one of the teams best db's was left at home as a healthy scratch? Our kicking game is still struggling after 12 games. After today, I would consider using Alix exclusively & employing an import in Waters place (btw has he signed that 10 year contract extension yet)?

I feel good seeing Jarious Jackson in there if Ray is out for a couple games. He is the best 2nd string qb this team has had in a few years.

Again, too many big plays allowed by the D, especially 2nd & long. I know it is a "Risk & Reward" style D, but when is the Reward going to come?

Thank goodness Winnipeg & Hamilton are both in the East. If we can win 9 games & finish 2nd, I will consider this a decent year with a great possibility to go to the Grey Cup.

Congratulations to Chadwick Owens on gaining 1,000 yards receiving...its been 4 years since ABIII did it?????

[gilthethrill]

The point I was making (and Ravi) is that they were not as far out of it as many here seem to think. One or two plays and it's a different ball game. (Hell, just the one FG return changed everything) They did well considering they lost their #1 guy.

But that's just my opinion. I watch the games with far far far far far far far less passion than you do.

You have to make those 42 yard field goals in the pros. That is a very difficult play to cover for FG cover team. The solution there is just make the kick. That was a 10 point swing which basically ended the game early.

[Midnight Blue]

Many great observations above.

All I can add, is that sometimes you need a good ass-kicking to remind you that you're not Grey Cup contenders yet.

But you could be. Six games to go. I feel positive. We are all spoiled, compared to the last few years. And that's a good thing.

Cheers !


PS - Ron, your cold-bloodedness is impressive. And 1argoholic, your writing is becoming almost brilliant. Are you sure your wife isn't helping you with your spelling? Cheers !

[1argoholic]

I only had one drink while watching today. Thanks I think. What are you some sort of English major? One of my friends in Ontario is and she would always correct my e-mail mistakes. haha.

[Midnight Blue]

I only had one drink while watching today. Thanks I think. What are you some sort of English major? One of my friends in Ontario is and she would always correct my e-mail mistakes. haha.


Just messin' with ya, Kozak to Kozak. Funny you mention drinking; someone started a peotry thread for me, and I explained that some for my best poetry was written while heavily drinking, along with other residual smoke. Though while I was in in Grade 3 Public School, there was a used-book store on the way to school that I happened to discover. First three books I ever read were "Born Free", "Chariots Of The Gods", and "The Green Berets". I've kept reading ever since. It changed my world. But then I got into Chicks, and Bikes, and Rock 'n' Roll, so the chances of a life spent in Academia, basically declined. But I love it.

[ArgoRavi]

Can someone explain why Carroll, one of the teams best db's was left at home as a healthy scratch? Our kicking game is still struggling after 12 games. After today, I would consider using Alix exclusively & employing an import in Waters place (btw has he signed that 10 year contract extension yet)?

I don't know what is going on with Carroll but Alix scares me as a placekicker. He had problems kicking FGs from between 20 to 30 yards in the preseason and the one regular season game he played. Is Austin Anderson available or is he still in the NFL?

[Midnight Blue]

I don't know what is going on with Carroll but Alix scares me as a placekicker. He had problems kicking FGs from between 20 to 30 yards in the preseason and the one regular season game he played. Is Austin Anderson available or is he still in the NFL?


I think Swayze will be fine. Once he gets used to the cold weather, his kicks will fly even further, and become more accurate (cold air particles are inherently {by nature} further apart, hence the possibility of particle deflection, is diminished proportionately to a proportionate decrease in temperature).

[Nob]

I whole-heartedly agree with Angelo's assessment on the prior page.

The other thing that bothers me is that I'm not sure that the Argos are improving on a weekly basis. You could see that Montreal is getting better each week. The Argos today looked not much different than the Argos from week 1 - poor l.o.s. play, inadequate receivers (Rambo really got my blood boiling today-I thought at he would be better than he has shown), dumb and excessive penalties, and sporadic special teams play (although that part had shown signs of improvement until today).

To be an elite team you have to get better on a weekly basis. The Argos aren't. Sure, they're good enough to beat the middle teams and the weak sisters, but are not at the stage of the Als or Lions. The Argos will finish with 10 or 11 wins, and are significantly better than past years, but they need to do more to pass the hump.

Yes, come playoffs anything can happen in a one game scenario, but that's wishful thinking instead of knowing that you will win.

[paulwoods13]

On Waters' second miss, the one after the TD return, it looked to me as if he deliberately kicked the ball to his right to compensate for the fact that the previous one was wide left. And of course he overcompensated and kicked it too far to the right. Once that type of stuff starts happening, you're in big trouble as a kicker. Who knows how much of all this was caused by the terrible snap Rempel sent back on the first attempt. That one works better and the Argos score, things might have looked a hell of a lot different. That type of thing - blown scoring opportunities on the road against a good team -- really screws with the heads of players. Rempel also had a couple of poor snaps in punt formation.

The receivers haven't received much mention here, but it's worth noting that Rambo continues to look like he does not know where to go on some plays, and he dropped a couple of catchable balls. Mann was dressed but only played a few special teams, as far as I could see. It might make sense to go back to Barnes and Williams at this point, or try Ballard (as Ravi suggested).

I, too, would like to know why Carroll wasn't dressed, although I thought Williams played OK in his place.

[AngeloV]

On Waters' second miss, the one after the TD return, it looked to me as if he deliberately kicked the ball to his right to compensate for the fact that the previous one was wide left. And of course he overcompensated and kicked it too far to the right. Once that type of stuff starts happening, you're in big trouble as a kicker. Who knows how much of all this was caused by the terrible snap Rempel sent back on the first attempt. That one works better and the Argos score, things might have looked a hell of a lot different. That type of thing - blown scoring opportunities on the road against a good team -- really screws with the heads of players. Rempel also had a couple of poor snaps in punt formation.

The receivers haven't received much mention here, but it's worth noting that Rambo continues to look like he does not know where to go on some plays, and he dropped a couple of catchable balls. Mann was dressed but only played a few special teams, as far as I could see. It might make sense to go back to Barnes and Williams at this point, or try Ballard (as Ravi suggested).

I, too, would like to know why Carroll wasn't dressed, although I thought Williams played OK in his place.

Great points about Rambo Paul. I didn't want him here from the start. I never thought he was as good as people thought he was, and that is 2 straight weeks he has been confused on the field. What really bothers me about him most is his temper on the field. His reaction after every time he gets hit, really bothers me. This is football, which is a contact sport. You are going to get hit, so live with it. If I was running the show, he would be the first guy gone today.

[Will]

I knew this game was over once Ray came up hobbling, but I really think the tone had been set already once that FG snap was bungled. This team cannot succeed if Ray is out for any extended period of time. Jackson is a guy who will move the offense a little bit, but not at any sort of consistency. Perhaps there was some rust out there yesterday, but I think what you see is what you get with him. Did Maurice Mann even play yesterday or was he wearing some sort of cloaking device? I assume he was the wide side WR. I, too, would like to know why Carroll wasn't in the lineup yesterday, I wasn't particularly crazy about his replacement. Also, the Als receivers push off ALOT.

[1argoholic]

Well I called for 4-6 wins and we're at that. I'm not sure we'll win upwards of 11. The frustrating part of this is that we could all see that we were lacking at the import receiver postions in training camp. Barker must feel his work was pretty much complete out of camp and why try anything else at this point. It's never to early to start bringing in some bodies at needed positions even if it's for next year. I knew they'd put to much on the back of Ray and now we'll see what hits the fan if he's out for a long while. I hope for the best but expect he'll be out for a while. He was in street clothes pretty fast yesterday. I still think with the right plays Jackson can win us some games. I'd move him out of the pocket more. He can still scamper if needed. Still so many issues.

[Will]

Did the injury to Ray also force the Argos to not utilize Kackert the way they would've liked? It sort of appeared that way from where I saw in the stands. He had 84 yards on 13 carries, but I think the majority of that was on two plays.

[AngeloV]

Well I called for 4-6 wins and we're at that. I'm not sure we'll win upwards of 11. The frustrating part of this is that we could all see that we were lacking at the import receiver postions in training camp. Barker must feel his work was pretty much complete out of camp and why try anything else at this point. It's never to early to start bringing in some bodies at needed positions even if it's for next year. I knew they'd put to much on the back of Ray and now we'll see what hits the fan if he's out for a long while. I hope for the best but expect he'll be out for a while. He was in street clothes pretty fast yesterday. I still think with the right plays Jackson can win us some games. I'd move him out of the pocket more. He can still scamper if needed. Still so many issues.

I really don't think we are lacking at all at the receiver position. Owens has been lights out this year, and Inman is turning into a stud. I would have no problem putting Barnes back into the line-up. Might have been the wake up call he needed. I also once Durie is back, have no problem going with 3 NI receivers in the starting line-up. Bradwell has done everything asked of him, and IMO deserves the shot. We all know how I feel about Watt. This would allow the Argos to dress Chandler Williams as a DI, and if they are playing with 8 starting NI's, he can spell a starter at any time during the game. He wouldn't have to just replace a starting import.

[AngeloV]

Did the injury to Ray also force the Argos to not utilize Kackert the way they would've liked? It sort of appeared that way from where I saw in the stands. He had 84 yards on 13 carries, but I think the majority of that was on two plays.

They couldn't really utilize him in the passing game, because I don't think JJ sees any receivers that aren't at least 15 yards down field. LOL.
Actually, I think they just kept Kackert in to block on most passing plays yesterday. For the most part JJ had a lot of time to throw, so it wasn't a bad idea. Just with low percentage passes, it's very hard to sustain any drives.

[Will]

They couldn't really utilize him in the passing game, because I don't think JJ sees any receivers that aren't at least 15 yards down field. LOL.
Actually, I think they just kept Kackert in to block on most passing plays yesterday. For the most part JJ had a lot of time to throw, so it wasn't a bad idea. Just with low percentage passes, it's very hard to sustain any drives.

The protection broke down a little more in the second half, but yes he had time in the first half at least.

[1argoholic]

I'm thinking of Rambo, Mann and Barnes who have all shown little. But at this point I think Barnes has been the best of the three. Getting Durie back is huge and I'd gladly like to see more Bradwell. I have ripped Watt but he's come on. That catch in BC was GREAT. I knew this would be a rebuilding type year and in my mind I knew that we'd have growing pains but in my heart I want everyone to play lights out and win 18 games. haha.

[Nob]

The Argos have tried Barnes, Rambo and Mann. I'd rather see Chandler Williams dress. At least Williams can do some special teams returns and coverage, something the other three can't.

[AngeloV]

The Argos have tried Barnes, Rambo and Mann. I'd rather see Chandler Williams dress. At least Williams can do some special teams returns and coverage, something the other three can't.

Works for me. More playing time for Bradwell and Watt that way as well. I'm sure if either of those guys were on the field instead of Rambo, he would cause a stink about it. I actually do like Mann though. I think he had a rough game in B.C., but he really is a good team first guy.

[Nob]

I'm not a Watt fan, but he is showing signs of hope. Bradwell is really showing well of late, particularly in the other aspects of the game - blocking, and special teams coverage (even if he is pulling down guys by their hair, and I'm glad to see that the refs did get that no-call correct).

[ArgoGabe22]

I agree, Chandler Williams only got pulled from the active roster because of Rambo and never really deserved to lose his job (even though he was a backup) and has done better than Rambo. I know Williams came in for Owens and Rambo replaces Durie.

I don`t really get why you have someone on the PR for 2 years straight, I`ve said this before with DJ Bolden. If he has so much potential or a future with the team then activate him already.

[paulwoods13]

I don`t really get why you have someone on the PR for 2 years straight, I`ve said this before with DJ Bolden. If he has so much potential or a future with the team then activate him already.

Who are you talking about? Boldin has been gone since training camp.

[paulwoods13]

Did Maurice Mann even play yesterday or was he wearing some sort of cloaking device? I assume he was the wide side WR.

As I said above, he dressed but did not play any downs on offence, from what I could see. He definitely did not play wideout because Inman was in on pretty well every play, and he could not replace Watt because of the ratio.

[OV Argo]

Time to give either or both of Ballard or Feoli-Gudino a real shot at receiver IMO: Barnes has been a bust - after being quite impressive with Ray & the Esks last season; and Mann has done next to nothing - why this guy keeps getting repeat CFL shots is beyond me; and Rambo has done little - thought he might be a decent addition with all his CFL experience and some big-play ability - but he's older / lots of mileage and always had some hands issues IMO.

Time to stop relying on guys who did something in the past and go to some new, young guys if the older guys just aren't producing; Inman has been a fine new addition to the receiving corps and Owens has turned it up as a receiver (still iffy hands/fumbles issues though - but i guess this coaching staff sees him as a legit #1 CFL receiver); Durie has regressed somewhat with drops problems, but he's more a dump-off, short pass YAC yards threat; Watt has looked good recently and needs to see more passes his way IMO; Bradwell looks like a solid hands guy who should play more.

Somebody else needs more action and a chance to step-it up as a good addition to the receiving corps; not sure this coaching staff would consider playing 3 NIs though - but Watt, Durie + one or both of Bradwell and Feoli-Gudino (to go with Owens and Inman)might improve the Argos pass catching game.

[ArgoGabe22]

Who are you talking about? Boldin has been gone since training camp.

I'm talking about Ballard but back when we had Bolden I said that its a waste to keep someone on the PR for two seasons straight and he should've been activated. Fast forward to now Ballard has been on the PR for two years and is in the exact same situation. MTL & BC has been using players off their PR for years such as London, Bowling, Hawkins and Kierre Johnson while the Argos are just using their PR as a scout team. I'm tired of hearing we have Ballard, we have Ballard but never use him. If he has a future activate him once, if not release him.

[doubleblue]

The Argos have tried Barnes, Rambo and Mann. I'd rather see Chandler Williams dress. At least Williams can do some special teams returns and coverage, something the other three can't.

Those three guys have been a disappointment in my books. Especially with a QB like Ricky Ray throwing to them. Rambo has been the best of the bunch in the past but I'm afraid he is getting past his best before date. Much like Copeland last year. Argos still haven't found that game breaker IMO.

[ArgoRavi]

They couldn't really utilize him in the passing game, because I don't think JJ sees any receivers that aren't at least 15 yards down field. LOL.

This gave me a great laugh that I needed tonight. (Where is that LOL icon when you need it?)

[ArgoRavi]

Those three guys have been a disappointment in my books. Especially with a QB like Ricky Ray throwing to them. Rambo has been the best of the bunch in the past but I'm afraid he is getting past his best before date. Much like Copeland last year. Argos still haven't found that game breaker IMO.

We seem to be that one receiver away from really busting out offensively and so far none of Barnes, Rambo or Mann has been the answer. I wouldn't mind seeing Barnes get another shot or seeing Chandler Williams (who I had forgotten about), Demario Ballard or even Feoli-Gudino get their opportunity. Williams had a couple of nice long pass and run plays against Montreal earlier in the season IIRC.

[paulwoods13]

I'm talking about Ballard but back when we had Bolden I said that its a waste to keep someone on the PR for two seasons straight and he should've been activated. Fast forward to now Ballard has been on the PR for two years and is in the exact same situation. MTL & BC has been using players off their PR for years such as London, Bowling, Hawkins and Kierre Johnson while the Argos are just using their PR as a scout team. I'm tired of hearing we have Ballard, we have Ballard but never use him. If he has a future activate him once, if not release him.

But how long did some of the Mtl guys hang around on the PR? I would bet that some of them were on the PR for long periods of time before they developed into starters. Not saying I would't mind seeing Ballard if he's judged to be as good as who we have, but the fact he has been on the PR for as long as he has does not mean he can't possibly develop later.

[AngeloV]

But how long did some of the Mtl guys hang around on the PR? I would bet that some of them were on the PR for long periods of time before they developed into starters. Not saying I would't mind seeing Ballard if he's judged to be as good as who we have, but the fact he has been on the PR for as long as he has does not mean he can't possibly develop later.

But then this brings up the old debate of "real competition" and not just "penciled in stuff" from the "good ole boys".