What Should Be Done About BC And The 13th Man?

[jerrym]

I noted in the BC game thread that:
"the crowd noise is a 13th player like no other in the CFL - I remember when the league in the 1990s clamped down on Calgary's announcer urging the crowd to make noise and yet nothing is done now when not only the announcer but the electronic signs that surround the entire stadium from every angle encourage this, along with music blaring between every Argo play".

1argoholic stated "My wife remembers the stadium announcer in Calgary losing his job over that. It was over the top loud and obnoxious to me. If that is allowed by the league than Toronto must close the dome for every game and pick out some high volume music or grading music when the visiting teams are huddling up. Why not crank the Wiggles or who ever the kids group was that had the Argos have to move a game. I mean where does this stop. Do you give everyone in the stands blowhorns and lazers. It's not football."

While the old BC Place before they put the new roof on last year was always noisy, it is way beyond that now. In fact, it has gotten steadily worse since the first game in the refurbished facility half way through last season. Part of the Argo penalties parade was simply due to the unbelievable din from the music blaring from the loud speakers, the continual prompting of the announcer to make noise and the 360 degree electronic signs that surround the stadium in continuous fashion prompting the fans to "Make Noise" on every opposition play. This distorts the game's outcome in a way not even close to be achieved in any other stadium and the roof was open, so it would have been even worse with the roof closed. If the league does not clamp down on this as it did in Calgary in the 1990s, then BC will have an enormous advantage every in making the playoffsand BC home games in the playoffs (they already have one when eastern teams visit due to jet lag). Then other teams building or refurbishing stadiums will be tempted to do the same. Therefore, the active encouragement to make noise right up to the snap of the ball needs to be controlled to some extent, IMO.

[paulwoods13]

I completely disagree. I was at the game and I did not find it either excessive or beyond the bounds of sportsmanship. Every stadium urges fans at times to "Make some noise!" B.C. just does it more frequently than other places, and more effectively. I did not find the music ran long at all.

If the fans were spontaneously making noise as they do at most U.S. football games when the opponent has the ball, would we be calling for them to be silenced? What B.C.'s scoreboard and announcer encouragement does is prompt exactly the kind of home-crowd behaviour we'd all be thrilled with if it happened at Rogers Centre. I'd like to see the Argos adopt a similar approach, and the fans embrace it. Unfortunately, I have far less expectation of the latter than I do of the former.

[T-Bone]

I completely disagree. I was at the game and I did not find it either excessive or beyond the bounds of sportsmanship. Every stadium urges fans at times to "Make some noise!" B.C. just does it more frequently than other places, and more effectively. I did not find the music ran long at all.

If the fans were spontaneously making noise as they do at most U.S. football games when the opponent has the ball, would we be calling for them to be silenced? What B.C.'s scoreboard and announcer encouragement does is prompt exactly the kind of home-crowd behaviour we'd all be thrilled with if it happened at Rogers Centre. I'd like to see the Argos adopt a similar approach, and the fans embrace it. Unfortunately, I have far less expectation of the latter than I do of the former.
Agreed. Also the jet lag excuse is ridiculous. When BC comes to Toronto, don't we have the same advantage then?

[ArgoGabe22]

Can't comment on the noise but on t.v. you do hear "Make some noise!" on every play. Who says it, where do they get it from? CIS games have the exact same guy saying it, is there a place to download it? lol (I think it's annoying btw)

[matchuk]

let there be noise! its all part of the game, as are, weather conditions/dome/injuries/etc.....noise is part of the game

[paulwoods13]

Agreed. Also the jet lag excuse is ridiculous. When BC comes to Toronto, don't we have the same advantage then?

I personally find it is harder on my body to travel three time zones west than vice versa, but it is not and should never be an excuse for losing in Vcr.

[1argoholic]

Everyone I talked to at the game thought that the noise was over the top. Perhaps some areas come across louder. I want to hear fans yelling not screeming loud music followed by screeching fans just trying to be loud. I love the chatter you hear in Hamilton. We walked back to the Sutton Place with Waters and Van Zeyl and they understood exactly what we were talking about. I'd be surprised if Ricky and the guys could perpare for that. That's the loudest and most obvious form of trying to disrupt another team I ever heard or seen. Then again I'm an old school guy who's not into loud crap music. I play my music loud but it's not dance club crap. I wouldn't enjoy that if I was a Lions fan.

We lived it. When we first moved to Vancouver Island it took us a good two to three months before we felt good and not tired all of the time. Look at Montreal and Toronto's records in BC in the last 10 years.

I think it's time for TO to close the dome and do the same thing as BC but louder and then shut up when we have the ball.

[paulwoods13]

Everyone I talked to at the game thought that the noise was over the top. Perhaps some areas come across louder. I want to hear fans yelling not screeming loud music followed by screeching fans just trying to be loud. I love the chatter you hear in Hamilton. We walked back to the Sutton Place with Waters and Van Zeyl and they understood exactly what we were talking about. I'd be surprised if Ricky and the guys could perpare for that. That's the loudest and most obvious form of trying to disrupt another team I ever heard or seen. Then again I'm an old school guy who's not into loud crap music. I play my music loud but it's not dance club crap. I wouldn't enjoy that if I was a Lions fan.

We lived it. When we first moved to Vancouver Island it took us a good two to three months before we felt good and not tired all of the time. Look at Montreal and Toronto's records in BC in the last 10 years.

I think it's time for TO to close the dome and do the same thing as BC but louder and then shut up when we have the ball.

I am mystified that you found the music too loud -- I never even noticed it, other than one play where it was still playing when the offence came out of the huddle. I was sitting at 20-yard line on the Argo side of the field.

Regardless, fan noise is a big part of football. In the U.S. (most NFL teams and probably every college team) there is no need to encourage noise as the fans already know they should try to disrupt the opposition offence. The Lions are doing nothing that I would have any objection to in Toronto (and the Ticats do it as well, by the way). I would love to see Toronto fans get as noisy (on defence) and as quiet (on offence) as Lions fans are, but I do NOT want to see the roof closed for that purpose. The RC is a much more miserable environment -- for fans, not players -- with the roof closed than with it open. The Argos could definitely do a better job of encouraging fans to make noise when the defence is on the field, but to me the bigger issue is encouraging fans to shut up when the offence is on the field. People make way too much noise at home when our offence is at work.

[1argoholic]

We were tucked under the overhang and it loud about five rows from the wall. I just want to see football played with normal crowd noise. I don't need the circus that it's all become. Guys with rude shirts on the screen dancing, kiss camera, human guinea pigs in a ball. Just play football.

[shayman]

FYI there actually is a rule about this.

Article 10 – Crowd Noise
The Team A captain may request the Referee to stop the game if excessive crowd noise prevents Team A from putting the ball into play. The Referee may permit Team A to return to its huddle. The Referee shall allow reasonable time but under no circumstances shall the play be delayed more than three times.
In the event that the home team permits in its stadium the use of either electronic equipment or high volume loudspeakers when the visiting team is attempting to put the ball in play, with the result that the game is delayed, the home team shall be subject to penalty for delay of game.
PENALTY: L10

The way it's been explained to me is that you have to cut off the noise once Team A breaks its huddle. If BC or anybody else has prerecorded noise going on right up until the snap, then that's a problem.

(Saskatchewan's band actually got a penalty for this once, which is a little hard to rationalize with the rules stating "electronic equipment or high volume loudspeakers")

[shayman]

Agreed. Also the jet lag excuse is ridiculous. When BC comes to Toronto, don't we have the same advantage then?

BC has an advantage when they play at 7 PM as they normally do - by the 10PM end of the game, people on Eastern time think it's 1 AM.

We would have a similar advantage if we started a game at 9 AM. The advantage happens when you play a game at the beginning or end of the day.

signed,
frequent traveller, frequent jetlag victim

[paulwoods13]

The way it's been explained to me is that you have to cut off the noise once Team A breaks its huddle. If BC or anybody else has prerecorded noise going on right up until the snap, then that's a problem.

That may have happened ONCE on Saturday, and it stopped well before the snap IIRC. Not a big deal as far as I was concerned.

[paulwoods13]

I just want to see football played with normal crowd noise. I don't need the circus that it's all become. Guys with rude shirts on the screen dancing, kiss camera, human guinea pigs in a ball. Just play football.

Many of us (myself included) would love that, but that battle was lost years ago, unfortunately. The same stuff happens at every pro sporting event in North America. Surely you have been to a game in the past decade?

[T-Bone]

BC has an advantage when they play at 7 PM as they normally do - by the 10PM end of the game, people on Eastern time think it's 1 AM.

We would have a similar advantage if we started a game at 9 AM. The advantage happens when you play a game at the beginning or end of the day.

signed,
frequent traveller, frequent jetlag victim
Right. It's still a weak excuse. How does any team beat BC in BC then?

[Mulder]

Blah! I remember being in Vancouver last year Grey Cup. Kicked out of Spirit of Edmonton. 1am local time I think it was. I still wanted to party. No one was up. Then I realized it was 4am my time and I should get some sleep! Was almost a 24 hour day for me.

[shayman]

Right. It's still a weak excuse. How does any team beat BC in BC then?

Well it's tougher for Montreal, Toronto and Hamilton with a 3 hour difference, and not a big deal for Edmonton and Calgary at only 1 hour.

Jet lag's a real thing; it does make you tired, but it can't be your only excuse. When BC schedules Eastern teams for a 7 PM start, they're leveraging this advantage.

[T-Bone]

Well it's tougher for Montreal, Toronto and Hamilton with a 3 hour difference, and not a big deal for Edmonton and Calgary at only 1 hour.

Jet lag's a real thing; it does make you tired, but it can't be your only excuse. When BC schedules Eastern teams for a 7 PM start, they're leveraging this advantage.
I know jet lag is real and I also know the difference between eastern and pacific time zones. I have traveled to LA and Vegas as well as Europe on more then one occasion. I'm not saying the players don't experience jet lag what I'm saying is I don't think it's a valid enough excuse to bring up in the wake of a loss.

[gilthethrill]

Has anyone ever just politely asked the Lions fans to quiet down when the Argos have the ball?

[Mulder]

Has anyone ever just politely asked the Lions fans to quiet down when the Argos have the ball?

I've tried that at Argo games, when the Argo's have the ball. Doesn't work sometimes.

[1argoholic]

This blasting of noise at BC Place was the first I've noticed there. They have it down to a fine art. Soon as the Argos O huddles the music screems and as they break huddle the annoucer says something like, THEY DON"T LIKE THE NOISE! and the fans start as the music stops. I wouldn't be surprised it there was added so called fan noise pumped in then. Hard to prove.

I just know when the Argos are 0-10 in their last ten trips to BC and Montreal is right along those lines that there has to be some issue.

[KCargosfan]

Has anyone ever just politely asked the Lions fans to quiet down when the Argos have the ball?

haha, gold, gilthethrill, gold.

[gilthethrill]

haha, gold, gilthethrill, gold.

Thanks KC....I was hoping someone would get it.....:)

[Midnight Blue]

Heh heh. We are Football fans! We all get it. At least more than badminton fans, I suspect.

Cheers !