October 8th 2012: Saskatchewan Roughriders vs. Toronto Argonauts

[T-Bone]

http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/ssk.png vs. http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/tor.png

Week 15
Monday, October 8th 2012 at 4:00pm ET.
Rogers Centre. Toronto, ON.

TV: TSN (http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/feature/?id=508)
TSN Mobile TV: Details Here (http://www.tsn.ca/mobiletv/)
Radio: TSN Radio 1050 (http://www.tsn.ca/radio/feature/?id=43622)
Audio Webcast: TSN Radio 1050 (http://www.tsn.ca/Toronto/listen/)

US Viewing:
Video Webcast: ESPN3 (http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index/_/channel/espn3)

Depth Chart: Here (http://www.argonauts.ca/depthchart/list/team/7/year/2012)

Pre-Game Tailgate: Rogers Centre Outside Gate 11 Starting at 12:00pm. More info here (http://www.argonauts.ca/article/argos-to-host-riders-in-thanksgiving-day-match-at-rogers-centre).

Ticket Info: Here (http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?717-Save-up-to-28-on-any-Toronto-Argonauts-home-tickets.&p=9470&viewfull=1#post9470)

Post Game: Argos Fall Big on Thanksgiving (http://www.argonauts.ca/article/argos-fall-big-on-thanksgiving)

[marcwagz]

nice game thread as always
hoping ray comes back, the riders are rolling, and for us to have a chance at bye in the east we neeed to win this game.

[1argoholic]

Riders are very beatable and very lucky to win their last two games. BC just brain cramped on that final drive last night after they moved the ball at will the previous drive. Calgary should have won the week before but got screwed by some bad calls.

I see us beating Sask.

[ArgoRedneck]

YES, tailgate at 12 noon!!!! Should be fun with all the Sask fans around.

[Wobbler]

Jackson was very good on Saturday considering that it was a short week and we were on the road, meaning limited practise time. We'll have plenty of time to work on plays for JJ before the Rider game, whether that means audibled draws against certain alignments or improving the timing on upfield routes. Hopefully Ray will heal quickly, but I don't see any reason to rush him back this week.

[Ron]

Should be a tough game. The Riders seem to play Toronto tough at Skydome. (while the Argos do well at Taylor)

The Riders may have been lucky to beat BC and Calgary ... but they still just beat BC and Calgary back to back.

[gilthethrill]

Expect an emotional letdown by the Riders after a big win against B.C. Argo's D makes Durant look ordinary. Montreal-Winnipeg game ends on time, fans watching the game on tv see entire game.

[LLB997]

I was at the dome last yr when the boatmen sent the green faithful home crying, heres hoping for a repeat.

[ArgoGabe22]

Hopefully the Riders don't sign James Robinson to a one game contract just to haunt us with his 9 catch 223 yard performance (the #s are made up)

[gilthethrill]

Hopefully the Riders don't sign James Robinson to a one game contract just to haunt us with his 9 catch 223 yard performance (the #s are made up)

LOL!!! Good one Gabe!

[Will]

Another one of those teams that varies road vs. away; seems to be a trend this year. I don't want the team looking ahead to Montreal on 10/14, the Alouettes should have an easy time with Winnipeg in Montreal so the Argos need to remain focused and concentrate on the task at hand which is defeating Saskatchewan. Plus, I really, really hate losing to the Roughriders.

[1argoholic]

We're going to cream that wheat, crush the canola and make mustard out of them. I hate the team but love products that the province produces. haha. Love mustard.

[AngeloV]

Another one of those teams that varies road vs. away; seems to be a trend this year. I don't want the team looking ahead to Montreal on 10/14, the Alouettes should have an easy time with Winnipeg in Montreal so the Argos need to remain focused and concentrate on the task at hand which is defeating Saskatchewan. Plus, I really, really hate losing to the Roughriders.

I really, really hate losing to anybody, but I see your point.

[1argoholic]

Remember It's better to win than to lose! I hate losing to everybody but I hate Saskatchewan.

[Invader]

The Riders may have been lucky to win their last couple games, but were unlucky in a couple other games with narrow losses. While the Rider offence seems on a roll, it's there defence, which has been dominating since Lodenbaum took over at MLB, is the most scary. This will not be an easy game by any stretch and we shouldn't expect the Riders to lay an egg. The Argos must seize their opportunities and play sound football on all three sides of the ball to defeat the Riders.

[1argoholic]

I can't believe Lobendon. I think both us us spelled it wrong Invader. haha. I can't believe he sat around for a while until Sask picked him up.

[ArgoRavi]

I can't believe Lobendon. I think both us us spelled it wrong Invader. haha. I can't believe he sat around for a while until Sask picked him up.

I believe that Lobendahn and McCune both competed for the MLB job in Calgary this year in training camp but both lost out to Juwan Simpson IIRC.

[AngeloV]

The Riders may have been lucky to win their last couple games, but were unlucky in a couple other games with narrow losses. While the Rider offence seems on a roll, it's there defence, which has been dominating since Lodenbaum took over at MLB, is the most scary. This will not be an easy game by any stretch and we shouldn't expect the Riders to lay an egg. The Argos must seize their opportunities and play sound football on all three sides of the ball to defeat the Riders.

They are definitely a different team at home than on the road. Other that the season opener in the Hammer, they have only won 1 other road game, and that was in Winnipeg.

[Invader]

I can't believe Lobendon. I think both us us spelled it wrong Invader. haha. I can't believe he sat around for a while until Sask picked him up.
Lol, Lodenbaum? Not sure where I got that from but I'd guess he's probably not Jewish.

[tc23]

Kackert is Questionable for the Sask. Game
http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/
CFL News and Notes: Oct. 3

[ArgoRavi]

Kackert is Questionable for the Sask. Game
http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/
CFL News and Notes: Oct. 3

If Kackert can't play, I am confident that Riggs would be a more than an adequate replacement.

[ArgoGabe22]

The Riders signed former Argos draftee Aaron Carwford today.

[gilthethrill]

The Riders signed former Argos draftee Aaron Carwford today.

I knew cutting him in preseason would come back to haunt our playoff drive.

[jerrym]

Saskatchewan and Toronto have been the two most inconsistent teams in the league both within games and in their overall records, that's why their won-lost records are the two closest to .500 football. It also makes it unpredictable as to which Argo and Rider team shows up at the start of the game and whether, however they start, they are able to maintain their level of play.

[1argoholic]

Flip a coin and that would be your best bet to figure out who shows up.

[Midnight Blue]

Flip a coin and that would be your best bet to figure out who shows up.


The Argos are going to show up. Mark my words. They're coming off a win, and they wanna be in the Grey Cup.

Even if they lose, they will show up to play. Otherwise, they won't deserve a chance at the Cup.


I am thrilled that our team is getting better every week.


No need to get nervous, Boys and Girls. Trust in their strength, and passion, and killer instinct.

[1argoholic]

What about your words? haha. Funny because my names Mark. I'm not as nervous about this game as I was last week. I think Sask is beatable.

[Ballstothewall]

Argos win 42 to 10

[294life]

ticat loss making a home playoff game more likely.

[1argoholic]

Oh I loved that Cats loss tonight. Burris caps it off with a horrible fumble. haha. There having a crap year and Hank sets the all time Cats record for TD passes in a season at 34 and counting.

[ArgoRavi]

Oh I loved that Cats loss tonight. Burris caps it off with a horrible fumble. haha. There having a crap year and Hank sets the all time Cats record for TD passes in a season at 34 and counting.

Their defence is just brutal. They gave up over 30 points to the worst offence in the league tonight. Incredible!

[gilthethrill]

Their defence is just brutal. They gave up over 30 points to the worst offence in the league tonight. Incredible!

I knew Obie did nothing in the offseason to improve an already bad defence. Signing $$$Fantuz to improve a strength of the team is really showing. Where are all the experts that predicted Hamilton would be in the 100th Grey Cup??? Does not hurt my feelings to see Stala with only 1 catch last night either. I love watching them lose....

[ArgoRavi]

I knew Obie did nothing in the offseason to improve an already bad defence. Signing $$$Fantuz to improve a strength of the team is really showing. Where are all the experts that predicted Hamilton would be in the 100th Grey Cup??? Does not hurt my feelings to see Stala with only 1 catch last night either. I love watching them lose....

This is at least the third year in a row that so many of the media pundits predicted big things for the Ticats. This may be the most disappointing year yet for that team.

[Wobbler]

It seems a bit early to be gloating, considering that we're *tied* for 4th place in the league.

Back on topic, it appears that Jackson has taken most of the snaps in practise and is expected to start on Monday (http://www.thestar.com/sports/football/cfl/article/1267078--argos-backup-qb-jarious-jackson-expected-to-start-against-roughriders). That's fine by me; JJ made good decisions last week and I think he'll be even better this week.

[Ron]

This is at least the third year in a row that so many of the media pundits predicted big things for the Ticats. This may be the most disappointing year yet for that team.

Hard to predict a team like that would play like they do. Look the best in the league one week and then look the worst for two more.

Can't see what else Obie could have done. Brought in players that were a consensus upgrade. Brings in "name" guy for a HC job. I saw nobody BEFORE the season stating that Cortez would be an idiot and the defense would be as bad as they are. Look at the Argos ... they rebuilt their defense with a bunch of nobodies too .. but their nobodies played better.

[gilthethrill]

Hard to predict a team like that would play like they do. Look the best in the league one week and then look the worst for two more.

Can't see what else Obie could have done. Brought in players that were a consensus upgrade. Brings in "name" guy for a HC job. I saw nobody BEFORE the season stating that Cortez would be an idiot and the defense would be as bad as they are. Look at the Argos ... they rebuilt their defense with a bunch of nobodies too .. but their nobodies played better.

As Argo fans lets all be thankfull Hamilton won the "Andy Fantuz Sweepstakes".....Good work by our GM & Assistant GM in the offseason finding those nobodies.

[Wobbler]

The DC has been posted (http://cfl.uploads.mrx.ca/league/pdf/en/depth/2012/2012_RegSeasonGame14_Oct8_SSK104652.pdf).

- Watt is injured; JFG comes off the PR to go on the 46
- Reinders has been added to the 46; I assume that he won't play since we haven't heard anything about him this week.
- Barnes was indeed silently added to the PR

Cohen, Carroll, Mann, and Reinders to sit this week?

[ArgoRavi]

The DC has been posted (http://cfl.uploads.mrx.ca/league/pdf/en/depth/2012/2012_RegSeasonGame14_Oct8_SSK104652.pdf).

- Watt is injured; JFG comes off the PR to go on the 46
- Reinders has been added to the 46; I assume that he won't play since we haven't heard anything about him this week.
- Barnes was indeed silently added to the PR

Cohen, Carroll, Mann, and Reinders to sit this week?

I know that Rambo is listed as a starter over Mann but I would be surprised to see Rambo in the lineup over Mann given Mann's solid performance last week and that he seems to have some chemistry with Jarious Jackson. Also, I noticed that Prefontaine is on the one game injured list. Could that be a mistake? With his salary and nature of his injury, I am surprised that he wouldn't be on the nine game list

[Wobbler]

I noticed Pre too, but originally thought that you couldn't re-nine game a guy with fewer than nine games remaining. I think I was wrong about that, though; Calgary recently put Demetrice Morley back on the 9-game extending beyond the GC game.

Heal Pre heal!

[gilthethrill]

I read somewhere this week that Rambo is nursing a groin injury. I would like to see Reinders in uniform in short yardage situations. Will wait as I always do for the accurate 46 man on the TSN radio pre-game show.

[ArgoRavi]

I noticed Pre too, but originally thought that you couldn't re-nine game a guy with fewer than nine games remaining. I think I was wrong about that, though; Calgary recently put Demetrice Morley back on the 9-game extending beyond the GC game.

Heal Pre heal!

The Argos can pull one player per half-season off the nine-game IL early. Since they had to pull Zach Collaros off to serve as the third string QB in Ricky Ray's absence, I am assuming that they can't do this with anyone else. Perhaps they are thinking that there is a slight chance that Prefontaine could return this season so they are keeping their options open by keeping him on the one-game IL on a weekly basis.

[paulwoods13]

There was a report in one of the papers the other day (Sun, I think) that Pre seems to have healed miraculously and might be able to play again this year. It sure wouldn't hurt for SM to at least have a choice of kicker by the end of the season. I'm not ready to give up on Waters but he needs to pick up his game and maybe Pre getting healthy will spur that.

[Wobbler]

Scianitti tweeted on Friday that Pre was in a jersey and doing some light kicking. He concluded that it was strength training rather than evidence that Pre was close, but if he's kicking at all at this point he can't be that far off.

Then again, Scianitti also reported that Djems Kouame was being tried at DB that day. Maybe he had been drinking...

[1argoholic]

Go Argos GO!!!!! Go Bombers. Can't believe I said that. haha

[jerrym]

While I thought Riggs was quite good in limited use against BC, I feel strongly that the Argos should have pulled Kackert near the end of the last game when his shoulder was obviously bothering him and the game pretty much decided. Instead, when he was seriously injured with less than 2 minutes to go, the decision to keep playing him may have cost them the use of Kackert in this game.

[jerrym]

Winnipeg beating Montreal 17-13 at half-time. If Winnipeg can hold their lead (a big if with AC at qb), an Argo win would leave the Argos tied for points with Montreal!

[ArgoRavi]

The scratches today, according to Mike Hogan, are Carroll, Reinders, Summers and Rambo.

[ArgoRavi]

Winnipeg beating Montreal 17-13 at half-time. If Winnipeg can hold their lead (a big if with AC at qb), an Argo win would leave the Argos tied for points with Montreal!

The Bombers are up 27-16 with a little over three minutes to go but the Als are driving.

[ArgoRavi]

Argos catch a huge break as Montreal's comeback falls short and the Bombers win 27-22. If the Argos can win today and next Sunday, they would be two games up on the Als (having won the season series) with only three games left.

[jerrym]

Winnipeg interception! It should seal a Winnipeg victory and give the Argos a shot at matching Montreal's record. Maybe the Argos should consider giving Joey Elliott the game ball if the Argos win.

[marcwagz]

this game just got huge and awesome!

[Deerkeeper]

Thank-you Blue Blunder. Now lets have the Argos win this afternoon and set up a first place show down next Sunday.

[1argoholic]

Please Argos show up and play a huge game!! Thanks Winnipeg!!!! We need it guys. GO ARGOS GO!!!!!!!!!

[Deerkeeper]

Well, this start is not promising.

[1argoholic]

Well this is all CRAP!!! Looks like the penalty filled Argos are back. This will be tough. We've barely touched the ball and we're down 10. Sounds like a funeral when Sask is on O. Unreal!

[jerrym]

Somebody better teach Marcus Ball what one yard means. That's two costly offsides in the first quarter for him and he's done it before, leading to Saskatchewan points. Then they get a too-many-men on the field penalty. If the Argos don't get their heads in the game soon, it will be over before they know it.

[jerrym]

I know there has been nothing to cheer about for the Argos but the Rider fans in the stands already sound louder than the Argo fans when the Argos are winning.

[Wobbler]

Jones is a pretty decent punter!

[Ballstothewall]

The 8,000 Riders fans are louder then 16,000 Argo fans, at this game

[Bleeds Double Blue]

That was a disappointing first half. Too many undisciplined penalties and sloppy ball handling and don't get me started on kick coverage. If it's not a long gainer it's 15 yards for no yards. This is game 15 counting preseason. We should be able to cover a punt or limit a kickoff return by now. C'mon boys, WAKE UP!

[jerrym]

After 3 deep starts in their own end, the Argos try a lateral to Owens on the kickoff, give up a fumble and get poor field position rather than try to get decent field position in order to keep Saskatchewan from getting good field position with 40 seconds left. To top it off they take a 15 yards no-yards penalty to give Saskatchewan a field goal without having to gain a first down. The Argos are lucky to be in this game considering how they have played. However, they are still in this game and can win if they avoid dumb penalties and get their heads in the game in the second half.

[1argoholic]

This is CRAP!!! Not sure we can score enough points to win. All of a sudden Jackson has become a pocket passer. What The Hell? He ran for 60 odd yards last week. He has to start running in the second half. We can't keep having two and outs. This bend but don't break D is hard to watch. Wish he could sack Durants arse. I need more from all aspects including the Argo fans at the game. THIS IS NOT A FUNERAL!!!!!!

I want to watch that Sask special like I want flaming hemorrhoids. Can't believe that's the spelling. haha. I'm so sick of the commercial with Durant talking about Sask fans off their feets. Nummy!

[jerrym]

De Angelis is 5 for 5 and the score is only 22-10 which tells you the Argo defence has played well, especially when you consider the Argos have rarely had decent, let alone good field position. However, it also tells you how week our return and offence have been.

[jerrym]

Oh well. The defence WAS playing well.

[jerrym]

The Argos should let Harris play the rest of the game in order to get a feel for CFL action during the regular season.

[1argoholic]

Are we sure MLSE doesn't own the Argos?

Time to put in Harris as this game was done from the opening kickoff. When this team is bad it's bad. You could see that they weren't prepared. As we move forward and grow I firmly believe that we need a quality OC. How Jackson hasn't run once all game boggles my mind. He is not Ricky Ray!! What a way to crap a great chance to move into a first place tie.

How about Williams low wave of a tackle attempt on that Sheets td run. Useless!! Is he affraid to dive at the legs?

This is the low point of the year. If Ray isn't ready next week we're screwed.

[jerrym]

The Argos should sign the 4 for 4 half-time kicker so they have somebody who can produce points under pressure.

[Will]

A shameful, disgusting, atrocious and abhorent performance. No point analyzing as they looked like they didn't practice last week.

[Treblecharger1]

Disappointing today obviously but on the bright side we win next week and we are in first place! I would rather have this horrid game today and not next week.

[jerrym]

And the Argo game ball goes to .................................................. ........................................ Joey Elliiott for keeping the Argos within one game of Montreal, who they play in their next game.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

We are 7 & 7 and control our own destiny for finishing first. I don't know what else to say other than I hope they are prepared to play next week much better than they were today.

[294life]

We are 7 & 7 and control our own destiny for finishing first. I don't know what else to say other than I hope they are prepared to play next week much better than they were today.

pretty much what the als are saying. it will be the battle of who sucks the least.

[Wobbler]

I thought Mike Bradwell had a good game. His upfield blocking was pretty good and he caught everything thrown to him (and one that wasn't). I'd like to see him more at TE.

It almost looked as though they told Jackson he couldn't afford to get injured, and not to run at all this week. That did not help his overall performance.

[jerrym]

It almost looked as though they told Jackson he couldn't afford to get injured, and not to run at all this week. That did not help his overall performance.

I feel the same way.

[Wobbler]

...and I'm afraid that's the sort of thing you tell your #2 QB when it looks like the #1 guy might not be back for a while. I hope I'm wrong about that.

[QBall]

Nothing good came out of this game from the Argos' perspective. It's like we took a gigantic step backward in every department. One of the commentators on the post-game show brought up a good point. Assuming Ray starts on Sunday against Montreal, can the Argos offence pick up where it left off or are we starting from square one?

[argolio]

The following Argos had good games......











That is all.

[1argoholic]

Yah why the hell did Jackson stand back and look like Kirmet Bell? He got 0 rushing yards. He looked horrible.

Star of the game was Jones with his punting.

Montreal doesn't play two stinkers in a row so I don't like our chances next week.

Same problems all year long.

[gilthethrill]

I knew the Argos would be flat with Montreal losing. Instead of taking advantage of a situation this team does things the hard way. After 14 games, don't expect the penalties to disappear. When will this team have an offence?

Very embarrassing to get blown out at home in a big game by the USFLs Washington Federals.

[ArgoRavi]

Yah why the hell did Jackson stand back and look like Kirmet Bell? He got 0 rushing yards. He looked horrible.

Star of the game was Jones with his punting.

Montreal doesn't play two stinkers in a row so I don't like our chances next week.

Same problems all year long.

Jarious Jackson is a rich man's Michael Bishop - nothing more and nothing less. I doubt that Milanovich told him not to run. He just simply did not do it and his passing was off the mark today although he has never had the most accurate arm in the business.

Kyle Jones did have some good punts but he also had some poor punts which hurt the team too. I am not sure that we could ask much more of him though given the circumstances. Milanovich would have been better off finding a way to dress Anthony Alix to do the punting instead IMO.

Montreal has already played two stinkers in a row and they played three in a row to end the regular season last year. They can be had.

I agree that some of the same problems which have plagued us all season - penalties and special teams - did us in again today. The only real explanation I can come up with for this team's uneven performance this season is that we have a lot of players who are new to the league. We have been a model of inconsistency as we have never won more than two games consecutively and never lost more than two in a row (and we have only lost two in a row once). I expect that we will play much, much better against the Als next week and if we can win that one we will be in the driver's seat to finish first place.

One other thing I will say is that I have been extremely disappointed in Mike O'Shea's special teams this season and they were horrible again today. If our special teams this year were as good as they were in 2010, we would be in sole possession of first place.

[argotom]

Just gome back from the dome.
It was worse live then what I would assume was on TV.
The defensive line again was terrible, could not pressure Durant as he had all kinds of times to set up and throw downfiled.
The defensive backfield was slightly better, but gave up too many big plays as well.
The offensive line could not hold the rush as in fairness as bad as Jackson was he could not set up and was rushed continuously.
The Riders handed it to us in every aspect of the game.

[paulwoods13]

This was inexcusable, from the very first play. Scott M needs to explain how the team could come out so unprepared after a long week between games. What was especially disappointing was the number of times we did not have the right personnel on the field and were scrambling to race guys on or off at the last second. We got outcoached in every facet of the game.

The kick coverage was atrocious -- a recurring theme this season -- and we cannot bust a return to save our lives. Our kicker now can't punt, apparently, so we had to convert a linebacker into a punter -- that doesn't happen overnight, unfortunately. Jones had two good punts and the rest were mediocre at best. We have got to get the kicking game sorted out, and fast. We even had a too-many-men penalty on a convert, for crying out loud. O'Shea has a lot to answer for right now.

Not that kicking cost us the game. It was a total team effort. The defence gave up several gigantic plays, including a backbreaking long bomb on Sask's second possession when the momentum was already against us. The tackling was shoddy, the d-line got manhandled, the outside linebackers over-reacted when they weren't jumping offside, and the secondary looked weak fairly regularly.

I'm getting very tired of how the defensive signals are called in from the sidelines. Every member of the defence spends the time between plays gazing at the sideline looking for the call, rather than focusing on the upcoming play and their own assignment. Whatever happened to the middle linebacker getting the call in and announcing it to the other 11 guys?

The o-line could not protect Jackson or open holes for Riggs. The offensive game plan, with no QB scrambles or even rollouts, was seriously misguided. The receivers dropped too many passes -- where have I heard that before?

To lay this egg when Winnipeg presented us with first place on a silver platter -- unbelievably disappointing. It's nice that folks think we control our own destiny if we beat Montreal next week, but that train left the station around 4:45 today. Had we won today, we absolutely could have controlled our own destiny this season. Now, to do so we need to beat Montreal (just about impossible to envisage at the moment) AND win in Saskatchewan (ditto). Not to mention winning out against Winnipeg (who suddenly look dangerous) and Hamilton (who are always dangerous when they play us). Frankly, I expect the best we can do in the last four games is 2-2. We are about a 9-9 team, IMO, so that would be about what we deserve.

[paulwoods13]

Milanovich would have been better off finding a way to dress Anthony Alix to do the punting instead IMO.

Simple -- deactivate Desriveaux or Feoli-Gudino. The former played a few snaps on offence in garbage time but otherwise barely saw the field, and as far as I could F-G never got into a single play. Might as well dress an actual kicker in the 42nd spot.

[argolio]

The D held them mostly to field goals early, otherwise the Riders could have put 50 on us. You'd think there would have been more than enough motivation playing for first place, playing at home, and with plenty of rest. Losing by 26 in a game like this just doesn't cut it. Now we'll see if this team has mailed it in, or if it has character and will react positively.

The end of the half really pissed me off. Instead of running twice to kill off the clock and regroup at halftime, we pass on first (incomplete), they call time-out after a screen pass on second doesn't get first down yardage, we punt, and then they convert on a field goal attempt. A free three points that never should have happened.

[ArgoRavi]

The D held them mostly to field goals early, otherwise the Riders could have put 50 on us. You'd think there would have been more than enough motivation playing for first place, playing at home, and with plenty of rest. Losing by 26 in a game like this just doesn't cut it. Now we'll see if this team has mailed it in, or if it has character and will react positively.

The end of the half really pissed me off. Instead of running twice to kill off the clock and regroup at halftime, we pass on first (incomplete), they call time-out after a screen pass on second doesn't get first down yardage, we punt, and then they convert on a field goal attempt. A free three points that never should have happened.

Those final three points in the first half bothered me a lot and should never have happened. We should have been very thankful to just get out of that half down by one score but then botched that last minute as you mention above. BTW, I believe there may have been a no-yards penalty after a poor punt during that final minute as well.

[argolio]

Just gome back from the dome.
It was worse live then what I would assume was on TV.
The defensive line again was terrible, could not pressure Durant as he had all kinds of times to set up and throw downfiled.
The defensive backfield was slightly better, but gave up too many big plays as well.
The offensive line could not hold the rush as in fairness as bad as Jackson was he could not set up and was rushed continuously.
The Riders handed it to us in every aspect of the game.Only thing I'll slightly disagree with is I thought our o-line was okay, or at least not terrible (both teams only gave up one sack). The Riders didn't blitz much that I noticed, and I thought Jackson had enough time to set up most of the time. What I think killed us was that we couldn't handle their team speed. They played a disciplined zone (which has killed us all season long), and their speed and discipline ensured Jackson couldn't take off if a play broke down.

[argolio]

Speaking as a CFL fan in the East rather than an Argo fan, this weekend was a huge downer. With the NHL shut down and the Jays finished, the CFL had a chance to earn a bigger piece of the spotlight during this holiday weekend in Toronto, southern Ontario and eastern Canada. Instead, the Ticats laid an egg against an Eskimo team practically begging to be put out of its misery. The Als inexplicably lose at home to the Bombers (who, let's face it, will always be a West team). And then there was the Argo debacle.

We can blame the media and whomever else for the CFL's problems here, but it would be nice if more than one of these teams (plus Ottawa when they come back) get their acts together in the same season and stick it to the West.

[1argoholic]

Has anyone checked the water in Toronto? Perhaps it contains a chemical that makes Toronto teams play like crap.

Milanovich blames himself for the loss in the post game presser. Funny how after that opening kickoff I called my mom to say we're DONE. She thought I was nuts but they looked out of it. How can you have extra days to prepare and yet still come up so flat. Jackson threw high a ton today because so many of his passes were tossed while fading backwards and on his back leg due to pressure. Why they didn't get him out of the pocket kills me. Luckily my wife is in Calgary so she didn't have to hear the swearing.

[jerrym]

Watching Picard quarterback the Saskatchewan line with its three young inexperienced linemen made me realize how badly the Argos miss his leadership, skill, and experience and I already thought they missed him an awful lot.

[Nob]

I'm late to the party, but a lot has been said already, and fairly accurately.

Not one player stood out for good reasons. Many for poor reasons:

I thought Marcus Ball really crapped the bed - poor penalties (again....and again....and again.....), and some lousy tackling efforts.

Also unimpressed with Williams in the defensive backfield today. I thought that he had performed well recently, but today no.

Ricky Foley..........whoa boy....... Too much money there to get the nothing they are getting from him.

Was anybody else ticked to see Dominic Picard play so well for Sask? Big mistake to let him get away. The OL misses him dearly. His play, and his attitude.

Do we even have a DL, or are we just going to dress 12 DB's? The lack of a pass rush, especially with all the substitutions they do, is disturbing.

We have a very leaky OL, and a QB who wasn't completing anything. So why didn't they run the ball more? Milanovich tends to treat the run as an afterthought.

Why is every pass either 2-3 yards beyond the LOS, or 40 yards downfield? Very few intermediate throws. I think I counted 2. It's like Cleo Lemon was back there.......

Special teams.........ugggggh. "Special" in name only. Too many penalties again - yes, I'm looking at you Tristan Black. And breakdown coverages. Awful. Where are you Bryan Crawford........?

Not impressed with this team. They are regressing. Where's the accountability for the repeat penaties? Where did the offence go (besides Ray's injury, but they weren't going to win with Ricky Ray, Condredge Holloway, or Doug Flutie today).

Good teams don't come out flat at home when presented with a golden opportunity to move up on the standings. The Argos have shown over the last 4 weeks that they are the 5th best team in the league, or lower. The thought that they can beat Montreal next week is based on optimistic hope, rather than demonstrated performance on the field.

[Nob]

Btw - I saw in an earlier post comments about Pre and Kuoame.

When the Argos were in BC I met somebody that is not employed by the Argos, but is affiliated with the team. He told me that Pre is waaaay ahead in recovery. Didn't mention if he would be back, but everyone is surprised by how well he is doing.

The Argos also love Kuoame's athleticism and do want to move him to DB.

[1argoholic]

Did anyone else noticed that horrible low wave of the right arm by Williams as Sheets blew past on that td run. It's like he didn't want to dive and break a nail or chip his nail polish. They showed it two or three times and I was floored. He won't be able to hide from that when they look at the video evidence.

[ArgoRavi]

How can you have extra days to prepare and yet still come up so flat.

It is funny that you mention this as Jarious Jackson was quoted in one of the papers yesterday or today as saying that sometimes you can think too much with the extra days to prepare. Anyway, that shouldn't be an issue over the next couple of weeks as they have a shorter week this week and a very short week after the Montreal game.

[Ron]

Too many here underestimated how well the Riders are playing lately. Also not surprised that they once again played a good game in Toronto.

[KCargosfan]

Watching Picard quarterback the Saskatchewan line with its three young inexperienced linemen made me realize how badly the Argos miss his leadership, skill, and experience and I already thought they missed him an awful lot.

Bingo. Huge mistake not to re-sign him.

[1argoholic]

True enough as the Riders always seem to play us tough. Too bad we didn't get them early on when their sky was falling. They filled some holes and will be tough at home when we play them.

[KCargosfan]

Did anyone else noticed that horrible low wave of the right arm by Williams as Sheets blew past on that td run. It's like he didn't want to dive and break a nail or chip his nail polish. They showed it two or three times and I was floored. He won't be able to hide from that when they look at the video evidence.

Yes, I was puzzled by that as well watching on tv. I was wondering why he didn't dive?


Btw, any talk now of O'Shea becoming a head coach any time soon is laughable after the way our special teams have performed this year.

[1argoholic]

We've lost some key guys but you still have to be able to tackle. How many times have we seen guys blow down the sidelines when all you need to do is push them out of bounds. To top it all off Owens has zero punt or kickoff returns this year. Like someone mentioned our special teams have been anything but.

[gilthethrill]

I thought the same this argoholic did, when the opening kickoff was returned for 84 yards, the game was over. What happened to Waters hand that he could not handle the long snaps?

The word on Sandro D is that he could not punt, which is why he was unemployed for so long. I thought he did a great job yesterday. The Argos did work him out in the offseason. A great pickup by the Riders.

I like Owens, but I don't think he can be viewed as a top return guy anymore. That is not a diss, he is a great player, but I would like to see a pure specialist in that role who can break one.

What the heck happened when Sask was able to convert on 3rd & 5 when Durant completed a pass & Bradwell had to make a nice tackle (Dressler appeared short btw)?? Why were our Special Teams on the field???

Also, the lack of an OC I think is hurting this team more than we realize. Milanovich is an "Offensive Genious", but I think he has enough on his plate as a rookie HC. There appeared to be no offensive game plan whatsoever yesterday.

Well, Montreal is next...lets see if we can avoid going below 500.

[Argocister]

Sad day for Argodom ......
I think Sasky out coached us, especially in the first half. So that for the rest of the game we were scrambling.
Rough riders are playing well and are peaking...... Good before the playoffs and hopefully not during.
Hopefully the Argos can start their climb next week to peak during the playoffs. And hopefully Ray is back..... This will help with the confidence of the team as well.

Question I have .... Remember I don't have lots of football knowledge not having played the game .....
On one kick ( haven't checked if it was a punt or a kick off) the ball bounced way in front of Owens, bounced erratically and Butler from Sask picked it up. sask got charged with an illegal contact on the ball, and the Argos got the ball with no yards attached to the penalty, just change of possession. Do I have this right?
If so, then rather than get a no yards penalty, One should have their team grab the ball.

[gilthethrill]

Sad day for Argodom ......
I think Sasky out coached us, especially in the first half. So that for the rest of the game we were scrambling.
Rough riders are playing well and are peaking...... Good before the playoffs and hopefully not during.
Hopefully the Argos can start their climb next week to peak during the playoffs. And hopefully Ray is back..... This will help with the confidence of the team as well.

Question I have .... Remember I don't have lots of football knowledge not having played the game .....
On one kick ( haven't checked if it was a punt or a kick off) the ball bounced way in front of Owens, bounced erratically and Butler from Sask picked it up. sask got charged with an illegal contact on the ball, and the Argos got the ball with no yards attached to the penalty, just change of possession. Do I have this right?
If so, then rather than get a no yards penalty, One should have their team grab the ball.

Yes, that kickoff was dangerous...the Rider player's back was on the sideline when he touched the ball last-thus the illegal participation flag. On kickoffs, the ball is live, as long as it travels 10 yards, so the cover team can recover the ball-thus there are no yards on kickoffs. Owens was careless in my opinion,hoping the ball would go out of bounds for a penalty, but it did not really matter.

Does my explaination help at all?

[Will]

This was inexcusable, from the very first play. Scott M needs to explain how the team could come out so unprepared after a long week between games.

You hit the nail right on the head.

[paulwoods13]

What the heck happened when Sask was able to convert on 3rd & 5 when Durant completed a pass & Bradwell had to make a nice tackle (Dressler appeared short btw)?? Why were our Special Teams on the field???


This was one of several instances during the game where the wrong players were on the field, or the guys who should have been on the field weren't. The coaches just assumed Sask would punt on third-and-five and sent out the punt return unit. The players started frantically waving to the bench when they saw Durant still out there, but it was too late. Doesn't a coach in the booth have responsibility to monitor the other team's substitutions and alert the bench? Of course, O'Shea doesn't wear a headset so even if that happened, word would have to be relayed to him third-hand, slowing down the response time. What a mess. The only saving grace was a nice tackle by Bradwell, who played a strong game on special teams. Sask got a generous spot on that play.

[ArgoGabe22]

Speaking of Special Teams what's going on with Walter Spencer? He had a really good game at home vs WPG but after that he was quiet. He was always a threat and leader in ST tackles with MTL but I hardly notice him with the Argos. He was brought in just for specials after the first few weeks.

[gilthethrill]

Speaking of Special Teams what's going on with Walter Spencer? He had a really good game at home vs WPG but after that he was quiet. He was always a threat and leader in ST tackles with MTL but I hardly notice him with the Argos. He was brought in just for specials after the first few weeks.

Is Spencer not listed on the injured list? I have no idea what injury he suffered. Was Boulay playing yesterday? He was brought in for similar duty as Spencer.

[ArgoGabe22]

Is Spencer not listed on the injured list? I have no idea what injury he suffered. Was Boulay playing yesterday? He was brought in for similar duty as Spencer.

You're correct he is injured. Then whats going on with Boulay? He's been quiet, obviously not a starter but it seems he has the same role as Wes Lysack, STs guy who is unnoticeable. Boulay was playing yesterday.

[ArgoGabe22]

Another thing I noticed from this game was SSK shut down two little hitch plays where both could have been picked off for TDs. Jackson threw it right at the defender on one of them and then Owens I think got tackled 0.1 seconds after making the catch on the other one. The next play when SSK got the ball they called the exact same play the Argos had done, a little hitch/screen to West and Dressler (I believe) and both times got a 1st down and more.

At the end of the day SSK executed all their plays and we just couldn't.

[Rich]

The offensive game plan, with no QB scrambles or even rollouts, was seriously misguided.

This is squarely on the coach. Didn't we see last week that some good things can happen when Jarious pulls it down and goes?

How is it possible he went from 8 carries to NONE? Why was Jarious running the exact same offence that Ray runs? Is this another example of the coach trying to put a square peg into a round hole, all in the name of perfecting his "system"?. Why not adapt the offence to the backup QB's skill set: "doesn't throw as well as Ray but runs way better".

I'm having serious doubts about this coach's ability to make adjustments on the fly. We haven't seen a lot of second-half improvements in many games this season either.

[1argoholic]

On those little hitch pass attempts that were almost picked off, Jackson is much like Bishop all strength but no finesse in his passes. Ricky would have just dropped those balls in leading the reciever. Jacksons passes are all drilled in a straight line. At least with the short ones.

What can't you pick apart from this mess. My faith against Montreal is running low at this point. I'm hoping for a win against Winnipeg and Hamilton now. Not sure we can beat Montreal or Sask at home.

[AngeloV]

This is squarely on the coach. Didn't we see last week that some good things can happen when Jarious pulls it down and goes?

How is it possible he went from 8 carries to NONE? Why was Jarious running the exact same offence that Ray runs? Is this another example of the coach trying to put a square peg into a round hole, all in the name of perfecting his "system"?. Why not adapt the offence to the backup QB's skill set: "doesn't throw as well as Ray but runs way better".

I'm having serious doubts about this coach's ability to make adjustments on the fly. We haven't seen a lot of second-half improvements in many games this season either.

I would say he only had 1 designed run against Winnipeg. The rest of the time he took off when nobody was open. Obviously the speed on the Riders defence did not allow him to do the same. The Riders watch game film, too. Winnipeg had no current game film on JJ, which may have factored into his ability to take off more in that game.

[Ron]

What can't you pick apart from this mess. My faith against Montreal is running low at this point. I'm hoping for a win against Winnipeg and Hamilton now. Not sure we can beat Montreal or Sask at home.

That means they'll somehow beat the Riders and Als ... but lose to Hammer and the Peg. ;)

[Rich]

I would say he only had 1 designed run against Winnipeg. The rest of the time he took off when nobody was open. Obviously the speed on the Riders defence did not allow him to do the same. The Riders watch game film, too. Winnipeg had no current game film on JJ, which may have factored into his ability to take off more in that game.

He had opportunities to take off and didn't. But let's just talk about designed QB runs. The QB draw was successful against Winnipeg, surely there was at least one opportunity to run that play again? Why not put a new wrinkle in a designed QB run? Why couldn't they come up with 1 or 2 new QB running plays for the game? Why have Jackson run the exact same offence as Ray? Shouldn't a coach try to take best advantage of a player's strengths? Because we know that Jackson's strength sure isn't passing the ball accurately.

[Ron]

He had opportunities to take off and didn't. But let's just talk about designed QB runs. The QB draw was successful against Winnipeg, surely there was at least one opportunity to run that play again? Why not put a new wrinkle in a designed QB run? Why couldn't they come up with 1 or 2 new QB running plays for the game? Why have Jackson run the exact same offence as Ray? Shouldn't a coach try to take best advantage of a player's strengths? Because we know that Jackson's strength sure isn't passing the ball accurately.

Coaches should but they don't. Coaches are more married to their systems and it would involve some work to make it better for the 2nd string when they are forced to start. Older fans remember 93 when Tracy Ham was forced into a run and shoot.

Milanovich IIRC didn't have much experience in needing to do that since AC played almost every game. (and MacPherson played the AC offense)

[ArgoRavi]

He had opportunities to take off and didn't. But let's just talk about designed QB runs. The QB draw was successful against Winnipeg, surely there was at least one opportunity to run that play again? Why not put a new wrinkle in a designed QB run? Why couldn't they come up with 1 or 2 new QB running plays for the game? Why have Jackson run the exact same offence as Ray? Shouldn't a coach try to take best advantage of a player's strengths? Because we know that Jackson's strength sure isn't passing the ball accurately.

What offence would work with Jackson? Sending every receiver down the field 40-50 yards and have him throw the long ball every play?

[1argoholic]

Oh the Argos tried to kill Tracy Ham's career.

[argolio]

Did anyone else noticed that horrible low wave of the right arm by Williams as Sheets blew past on that td run. It's like he didn't want to dive and break a nail or chip his nail polish. They showed it two or three times and I was floored. He won't be able to hide from that when they look at the video evidence.I don't know if he would have got him, but it sure didn't look good.


What the heck happened when Sask was able to convert on 3rd & 5 when Durant completed a pass & Bradwell had to make a nice tackle (Dressler appeared short btw)?? Why were our Special Teams on the field???Looks like every coach and player fell asleep. Someone has to notice that and call time-out.

I couldn't tell about the spot from where I was sitting, but we could have challenged that since it was a third-down play.


He had opportunities to take off and didn't. But let's just talk about designed QB runs. The QB draw was successful against Winnipeg, surely there was at least one opportunity to run that play again? Why not put a new wrinkle in a designed QB run? Why couldn't they come up with 1 or 2 new QB running plays for the game? Why have Jackson run the exact same offence as Ray? Shouldn't a coach try to take best advantage of a player's strengths? Because we know that Jackson's strength sure isn't passing the ball accurately.If you think he had opportunities to take off (which he did 6 of his 7 carries against the Bombers) but didn't, then your problem is with Jackson, not the offense. Seem like he didn't think there were the same opportunities against the Riders, which had a lot to do with the Riders IMO.

It should also be noted that Durant didn't run at all against us, and they did just fine.

[Invader]

What offence would work with Jackson? Sending every receiver down the field 40-50 yards and have him throw the long ball every play?
Essentially yes. You don't need 6 receivers with Jarious at QB, just 3 or 4. Keep a FB and HB in to block, maybe a TE too. Maximum protection, maximum yardage. JJ is no good for a dink and dunk short passing game, he just doesn't have the touch for those passes. He's not particularly well suited for the "Montreal" offence the Argos run and I'm surprised the coach didn't change things up? You also need top-flight receivers to handle JJ's burners, not converted RB's who fare better with Ricky Ray's deft touch.

[paulwoods13]

Essentially yes. You don't need 6 receivers with Jarious at QB, just 3 or 4. Keep a FB and HB in to block, maybe a TE too. Maximum protection, maximum yardage. JJ is no good for a dink and dunk short passing game, he just doesn't have the touch for those passes. He's not particularly well suited for the "Montreal" offence the Argos run and I'm surprised the coach didn't change things up? You also need top-flight receivers to handle JJ's burners, not converted RB's who fare better with Ricky Ray's deft touch.

No offence that sends every receiver 40 yards downfield every play could possibly work, regardless of the QB's arm strength. DBs and d-lines would feast on that. I'm not disagreeing with the suggestion that the offence should be tweaked to play to his strengths, but bombing it every play is a sure-fire recipe for failure.