October 14th 2012: Montreal Alouettes vs. Toronto Argonauts

[T-Bone]

http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/mtl.png vs. http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/tor.png

Week 16
Sunday, October 14th 2012 at 1:00pm ET.
Rogers Centre. Toronto, ON.

TV: TSN (http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/feature/?id=508)
TSN Mobile TV: Details Here (http://www.tsn.ca/mobiletv/)
Radio: TSN Radio 1050 (http://www.tsn.ca/radio/feature/?id=43622)
Audio Webcast: TSN Radio 1050 (http://www.tsn.ca/Toronto/listen/)

US Viewing:
Video Webcast: ESPN3 (http://espn.go.com/watchespn/index/_/channel/espn3)

Depth Chart: Here (http://www.argonauts.ca/depthchart/list/team/7/year/2012)

Ticket Info: Here (http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?717-Save-up-to-28-on-any-Toronto-Argonauts-home-tickets.&p=9470&viewfull=1#post9470)

Post Game: Argos Struggle, Als Take Stranglehold on Division (http://www.argonauts.ca/article/argos-struggle-als-take-stranglehold-on-division)

[Will]

Prepare, prepare, prepare!

You know the Als will be prepared. Will the Argos?

[1argoholic]

After yesterday I can't see us winning unless Ricky is back and healthy. But then we might have issues with him getting back into a groove. No expectations yet. Still have to let yesterdays mess go.

[jerrym]

In the Saskatchewan game, it seemed that Owens had lost some of his acceleration. While the fact he gained much less yardage than normal is partly accounted for by good Saskatchewan coverage and poor Argo blocking, Owens himself never seemed to be his old elusive self. Perhaps all the wear and tear (as opposed to serious injury) of so many returns and receptions is catching up with him. If this is the case, the Argos could be even worse position against the Als without Owens ability to give the Argos good field position on a consistent basis. It might also be wise to rest him before the playoffs so he can rejuvenate before these critical games. Durie, who just came back from injury, seemed much more energetic with the ball, probably because of the rest his body got during this time.

[Ron]

Newsflash. The Argos were prepared ... they just got their butts handed to them.

They'll be prepared again this week. Luckily they face the Als after a loss. AC is really pissed so that should be a good sign of things to come.

[ArgoRavi]

The Argos have bounced back well from disappointing peformances all season. I have no doubt that they will be much improved on Sunday.

[matchuk]

i love these games less than a week apart....and 5 days after that! i have a good feeling for sunday

[1argoholic]

I agree that Owens would benefit from dropping someone else back for the odd punt or kickoff return. He's running out of bounds more as well. I mean it's hard to complain about such a great player but he can't do it all for 18 games.

[DanTheFan]

I'll be at this one. The girl at the ticket booth at Rogers Centre put us on the visitors side, which must mean they didn't have 4 seats together in the same section on the Argo's side (or she's clueless). I've never sat there before, but I'm actually looking forward to the new perspective.

[Nob]

Here's why the Argos won't beat Montreal - to be successful against be Al's you have to make Calvillo uncomfortable in the pocket. Knock him down a couple of times. Pressure him. Get constant contact on him. No QB likes to get hit, especially Calvillo.

The Argos will rush 3 and drop 9 and AC will pick them apart. We will have no pass rush, and it will hurt us, again.

I know that AC is good at the quick drop and quick release, but to be successful you have to get in his face.

Or pray that he is having a bad day and Father Time is catching up to him.......

[Midnight Blue]

Here's why the Argos won't beat Montreal - to be successful against be Al's you have to make Calvillo uncomfortable in the pocket. Knock him down a couple of times. Pressure him. Get constant contact on him. No QB likes to get hit, especially Calvillo.

The Argos will rush 3 and drop 9 and AC will pick them apart. We will have no pass rush, and it will hurt us, again.

I know that AC is good at the quick drop and quick release, but to be successful you have to get in his face.

Or pray that he is having a bad day and Father Time is catching up to him.......


Hmmm ... I remember several years ago, when the Montreal D blitzed on every play ... seemed to work for a while ... perhaps that is the answer ... blitz Calvillo on every down in the first quarter, and bring the DBs up close to the line, to cover the quick tosses and screens. Just leave our Safety, Jordan Younger back, to cover any deep threats. We may get burned once or twice, but this plan of action will definitely piss off Calvillo, and may get him off his game. And if it works in the first quarter, then try it in the second. And so on....

Just a thought.

[ArgoRavi]

Here's why the Argos won't beat Montreal - to be successful against be Al's you have to make Calvillo uncomfortable in the pocket. Knock him down a couple of times. Pressure him. Get constant contact on him. No QB likes to get hit, especially Calvillo.

The Argos will rush 3 and drop 9 and AC will pick them apart. We will have no pass rush, and it will hurt us, again.

I know that AC is good at the quick drop and quick release, but to be successful you have to get in his face.

Or pray that he is having a bad day and Father Time is catching up to him.......

We did beat them earlier in the season and, as I have mentioned before, Chris Jones has probably had as much success defending Calvillo and the Als as any defensive coordinator over the last five years.

[argomANIA]

Considering that we only practice twice before this game…yep…we’ll be prepared. :ohno:

[RICKEARS]

Anyone know if Ricky Ray + Chad Kackert will be playing this weekends game?

[gilthethrill]

With Hamilton getting beat by a dismal Edmonton team led by Kerry Joseph after pounding Montreal 7 days earlier & a lower tier team like Winnipeg (led by Joey Elliott) beating Montreal at home after looking putrid against the Argos the week before, tells me that anything can happen in the CFL.

With those results I just mentioned, the Argos have a good chance of coming out on top on Sunday.

[AngeloV]

Considering that we only practice twice before this game…yep…we’ll be prepared. :ohno:

On the bright side, Montreal has just as little time to prepare. The key is getting Ray (and Kackert) back in the line-up.

[Will]

Newsflash. The Argos were prepared ... they just got their butts handed to them.

They'll be prepared again this week. Luckily they face the Als after a loss. AC is really pissed so that should be a good sign of things to come.

Which is generally what happens when a team isn't prepared.

[doubleblue]

I agree that Owens would benefit from dropping someone else back for the odd punt or kickoff return. He's running out of bounds more as well. I mean it's hard to complain about such a great player but he can't do it all for 18 games.

Matt Black always seem to have a good return the few times he gets his hands on the ball.

[1argoholic]

Last year against Winnipeg I think it was when the ball bounced funny and he grabbed it and took it to the house.

[294life]

Bratton and Perrett set to return. Guy and Green will be out. AC is not the only one who's pissed. Jamel is on a tear. Expect maybe 200 yards from him sunday.

[ArgoRavi]

Bratton and Perrett set to return. Guy and Green will be out. AC is not the only one who's pissed. Jamel is on a tear. Expect maybe 200 yards from him sunday.

Richardson has had a subpar year (for him) so far this season with quite a few drops. Hopefully that continues for at least another week.

[294life]

Dunno where the fan train als fans will be sitting. In 2008 we were in the 121 section and in 2009 we were behind their bench. we should be 150-200. for the first time included in our ticket is dinner at boston pizza.

[ArgoRavi]

Ray is definitely out of the Montreal game and I believe that Kackert and Inman both are as well. If this were a playoff game, I imagine that Ray and Kackert would have played but clearly Milanovich and the organization are saying that this is not a must-win on Sunday, that we need to have our top players healthy for the playoffs and that if we have to win two playoff games to get to the Grey Cup including one in Montreal then so be it. Having said all of this, I still expect the offence to perform well enough on Sunday to win but special teams have to be much better, our offence has to limit the two and outs and the defence has to create some turnovers.

[gilthethrill]

I notice Joel Reinders has been taken off the "injured" list & onto the 46. Does not mean he will dress, but I would like to see if he could help shore up the protection in some situations.

[1argoholic]

Would be nice to see him get some game action. I'm still floored about Pre. I thought he'd be done.

[ArgoRavi]

Anyone want to take a stab at who the four scratches will be: http://www.argonauts.ca/depthchart/game/depthid/9835

If my arithmetic is correct, two Canadians and two imports will sit. I am guessing that neither Watt nor Rambo will play because of injuries but who will be the other two who sit? LB Bryan Payton returns to the active roster for the first time since the season opener IIRC.

[ArgoGabe22]

Where's Cohen. He played last game. Is he injured again?

Scratches might be Carrol, JFG, Payton, and Rambo.

[ArgoRavi]

Where's Cohen. He played last game. Is he injured again?

Scratches might be Carrol, JFG, Payton, and Rambo.

Cohen is on the one-game injured list while Summers is on the practice roster.

[Nob]

Wouldn't surprise me to see Payton play over Ball. Ball can play, but he also takes too many penalties. This would be a message to all that it has to stop.

Tristan Black took two penalties on specials last week and now he's on the 1-game injured list. Coincidence?

[gilthethrill]

After yesterdays action, it appears Edmonton will crossover to the East. The Argos really need to win today & end up in 1st in the East to avoid playing a seemingly resurgent Edmonton team that we just can't beat.

How does a team with Kerry Joseph at qb, a defensive minded HC who demotes his OC so he can become heavily involved in the offence put up 37 points against a team that less than a week ago looked like world beaters against our team?

[294life]

Riding the fan train to Toronto. We'll be about 250 in section 127

[AngeloV]

After yesterdays action, it appears Edmonton will crossover to the East. The Argos really need to win today & end up in 1st in the East to avoid playing a seemingly resurgent Edmonton team that we just can't beat.

How does a team with Kerry Joseph at qb, a defensive minded HC who demotes his OC so he can become heavily involved in the offence put up 37 points against a team that less than a week ago looked like world beaters against our team?

I think scheduling had a lot to do with yesterday's result. Saskatchewan had a very short week while Edmonton had a week + a day to prepare for a home game. I don't know why I didn't take this into consideration when making my RONA picks this week.

[gilthethrill]

I think scheduling had a lot to do with yesterday's result. Saskatchewan had a very short week while Edmonton had a week + a day to prepare for a home game. I don't know why I didn't take this into consideration when making my RONA picks this week.

Perhaps it was the scheduling. Certainly not due to the Argos phyically beating them up on Thanksgiving.

If not for rain in the forecast, it is warm enough outside for the RC roof to be open this afternoon.

[1argoholic]

Riders could still cross over. We need first place.

We just went from months of drought to pissing rain with the flip of a switch. Nasty on Van Isle.

Go Argos Go!!!!

[marcwagz]

i expect a horrible game that is painful to watch, I have no confidence that jackson can move the ball anymore.
hope I am wrong.

[jerrym]

The collapse of the Ticats may be doing the Argos no favours. There is the danger that complacency may set in a team that sees its opposition's chances of making the playoffs dwindling away. However, the Argos have too many holes in their lineup to succeed in the playoffs, especially on the offensive and defensive lines to say nothing of Ray's injury, unless they push themselves now to improve in the remaining regular season games.

[gilthethrill]

i expect a horrible game that is painful to watch, I have no confidence that jackson can move the ball anymore.
hope I am wrong.

The way this season has gone, expect the unexpected.

[jerrym]

Wouldn't surprise me to see Payton play over Ball. Ball can play, but he also takes too many penalties. This would be a message to all that it has to stop.

Tristan Black took two penalties on specials last week and now he's on the 1-game injured list. Coincidence?

I agree. I like Ball's play when he is not getting penalties. However, this is all the more reason to sit him out. When a regular starter loses his job for at least one game because of penalties, especially totally unnecessary and easily avoidable penalties such as repeatedly lining up offside, the message will be sent. Those that don't receive it should expect the same. Beating other teams in the playoff will be hard enough for the Argos, without the Argos losing before the ball is snapped on plays or after the play is complete because someone is trying to get even for a previous cheap shot or other inane reason.

[1argoholic]

I hope we get a D, td which would help. Owens is over due for a return td, today it will happen.

[jerrym]

I hope we get a D, td which would help. Owens is over due for a return td, today it will happen.

I think Owen's body is banged up from all his returns and receptions. IMO, this has caused his decreased production in the last two games. I hope today's game proves me wrong.

[ArgoRavi]

The scratches today are Kyle Jones, Maurice Mann, Joel Reinders and Ahmad Carroll which means that both Spencer Watt and Ken-Yon Rambo will play.

[gilthethrill]

The scratches today are Kyle Jones, Maurice Mann, Joel Reinders and Ahmad Carroll which means that both Spencer Watt and Ken-Yon Rambo will play.

Mike Hogan said Jones is out...is he hurt? Where did you hear that list Ravi?

[jerrym]

The Argos need to halt the usual fast-start, early-scoring Als from jumping into an early lead to have a good shot at victory.

[gilthethrill]

Signing off...will avoid the score & will watch the game on PVR when I get home from work tonight.

[jerrym]

I think Owen's body is banged up from all his returns and receptions. IMO, this has caused his decreased production in the last two games. I hope today's game proves me wrong.

With a 30 yard return on the opening kickoff Owens has a good start on proving me wrong.

[marcwagz]

i dont get why bradwell has totally replaced watt, the offence has not been any better as a result, its been worse since the change happened.

[Wobbler]

Watt is injured.

[marcwagz]

then why will he play today
thats confusing if hes hurt they should use his roster spot for someone else

[Wobbler]

It's a ratio thing.

[marcwagz]

is it just me or are there a lot more commercils than usual today???

[jerrym]

The Argos need to pick up their qb rush or Calvillo will pick them apart. They gave him far too long on his first completion.

[1argoholic]

How in the HELL was that roughing the passer. I knew right away that Flemons had Calvillo just as the ball was tossed. HORRIBLE CALL!!! BS.

[Nob]

Foley with a sack. Durie big catch and run for td.

Wow.......our NI are making the difference so far.

[marcwagz]

durie is indeed awesome!

[Nob]

Brutal overturn on the Ball pick.

Looks inconclusive to me.

[Nob]

Williams is awful.

[Nob]

Brutal end to the half. Gave Montreal life.

[1argoholic]

If that was an Argo receiver we'd have a penalty with that little push on Williams. How was that not grounding on Calvillo? He just backed up and tossed the ball about five yards into the turf with no one around. At least that's what it looked like to me.

Well those two singles by Pre are the difference right now. I was joking that that's all we'll need.

Well I was supposed to go to Victoria to pick my wife up at the airport tonight but I just got word she's staying in Calgary another week. She had a good old friend just die while coming out of her bank job on Friday night. Hit the ground and they couldn't revive her. Guess I'll start having a few for the second half.

[1argoholic]

Cox is a dirty s.o.b. He sacks Jackson and then rolls on him knowing exactly wat he's doing. We get flagged and they keep getting away with murder.

[1argoholic]

Just give them instant field position with that messed up fake. Unreal.

[marcwagz]

jackson is so bad...

[Nob]

Goodgawd.........

Wtf was Williams doing at the end of that play??

[1argoholic]

Nob you are correct, Williams is CRAP. How can a football player play so weak and lame. Last week he waved his arm underhanded at the rb who blew past. Today he's been weak. Time to take up quilting Williams. I'd cut him and find someone who isn't affraid.

[Nob]

13 1/2 minutes to get first 1st down in the 2nd half. Brutal.

Then the OL resumes its brutal protection again.

[Nob]

Can the OL block anybody??

[marcwagz]

our o line is terrible today too, but jackson takes forever to do anything

[1argoholic]

David Lee has an engine that won't stop. I predict he'll be an Argo star for years to come. David 'Hustler' Lee is the nickname for this good young player.

[Nob]

Practices must be interesting - the OL who can't block anything going against a DL that can't get sacks.

It's like the moveable object against the resistible force.......

[Wobbler]

It's like the moveable object against the resistible force.......
Heh heh. I like that one.

[Nob]

Glad to see that Payton is taking Tristan Black's place on specials and with penalties. That's 2 for him today on specials too.......

[Nob]

Suitor's man-love for Hebert is annoying......

[Nob]

Good night, Irene......

[Nob]

Seriously, stop propping Emry when Jackson threw it right to him. Anybody on this board would have made the same play.

It wasn't that difficult when Jackson serves it up like that.

[marcwagz]

id rather have dalton bell

[1argoholic]

Jackson is the second coming of LEMON. I'm two weeks away from turning 50 and I could run for some first downs. What a horrible pass right into Emry's numbers. If the bloody crossover team makes the cup my ticket is getting scalped.

[Ballstothewall]

i expect a horrible game that is painful to watch, I have no confidence that jackson can move the ball anymore.
hope I am wrong.

You nailed It!!!!!

[Will]

Ricky Ray on half a leg has still got to be better than Jackson.

[Ballstothewall]

Jackson is the second coming of LEMON. I'm two weeks away from turning 50 and I could run for some first downs. What a horrible pass right into Emry's numbers. If the bloody crossover team makes the cup my ticket is getting scalped.

Stop it, your not scalping any ticket, so stop your yaking

[Nob]

From a 9-1 lead to a 24-12 deficit. The Argos made it look easy too........

[marcwagz]

seriously take jackson out put harris in
at least we could understand when harris does bad since hes new
jackson has no excuse he may be 35 but plays like 53

[marcwagz]

i think all trestman thinks is that as soon as he throws his flag it calls back an interception
if this is overcalled thats a load of crap

[Nob]

2 first downs in the second half?

Awful.

[1argoholic]

Jackson looks likes he's 55 and on crutches out there. Barker great job at finding a solid backup. NOT! Milanovich needs an OC.
Milanovich needs to show some passion. It's like Skippy all over again. Well I caled for 6 wins this year and this team really isn't much better than that. We have some growing to do. Horrible Crap!!!

[Nob]

The only good thing about being in this vast wasteland of BC is that I don't spend my money on this team. They don't deserve it.

[1argoholic]

Nob why I like you. Exactly. Thankfully I had booze in the house and I knew what to do with it. haha. Flutie I will scalp my 100th Grey Cup ticket if it's Sask in the east through the crossover. I've gone to Grey Cups and miised games. In Winnipeg last time I couldn't go because of food poisoning. Montreal I didn't go because they open one gate and it's like a hurd of beef going into Excel foods. haha. Last year I went to Vancouver but we sold our tickets to our friends who are huge Lions fans so they could take their son.

Back to the gongshow. So we're in second with a cough..cough solid 7-8 record. We should hold onto second. If things pan out the way it looks we'll be playing Edmonton or Sask. I have no faith in beating either team. So we either have Montreal yet again or a crossover team as the east team in the 100h farce.

Barker step up show your face and find us some more talent. You sold a bill of rights that we'd be in the 100th Grey Cup. You need to make sure we can make a Grey Cup in the next 5 years. Milanovich needs help as well.

[jerrym]

While Jackson is little more than a 50% passer, our weak offensive line will more than likely bring about a quick exit in the playoffs even with Ray at qb. Milanovich told Jackson to only consider running after not being able to find his first two receivers open. The problem with that is, with our offensive line, he is under several Als by that time. I understand limiting Jackson's running because of Ray's injury, but Jackson has shown himself a decent runner in the past, including his first start as an Argo. With a 50% passer, you have to let him use his running skills, especially when he is getting hit hard anyway every time he drops to pass. If he had had some success as a runner, this may have prevented the Als simply pinning back their ears and going after him on nearly every play. Thus, some judicious running and sliding at the appropriate time could even have reduced his chance of being injured.

Durie had a great game and should be used on a few running plays and returns as he seems to be well rested and full of energy due to his time off from injury.

Milanovich now has an offence that is so predictable in its playcalling due to its minimal run game that it is relatively easy to defend.

While the defensive line once again put little pressure on the quarterback, the linebackers and defensive backs generally played well except for Williams.

While Riggs is an adequate backup, the Argos miss Kackert's running and pass receiving terribly.

[Ballstothewall]

One positive, 25,348. The Argo's attendance has gone up every game from the start of the season. now if we could only win some of them

[Ballstothewall]

Nob why I like you. Exactly. Thankfully I had booze in the house and I knew what to do with it. haha. Flutie I will scalp my 100th Grey Cup ticket if it's Sask in the east through the crossover. I've gone to Grey Cups and miised games. In Winnipeg last time I couldn't go because of food poisoning. Montreal I didn't go because they open one gate and it's like a hurd of beef going into Excel foods. haha. Last year I went to Vancouver but we sold our tickets to our friends who are huge Lions fans so they could take their son.

Back to the gongshow. So we're in second with a cough..cough solid 7-8 record. We should hold onto second. If things pan out the way it looks we'll be playing Edmonton or Sask. I have no faith in beating either team. So we either have Montreal yet again or a crossover team as the east team in the 100h farce.

Barker step up show your face and find us some more talent. You sold a bill of rights that we'd be in the 100th Grey Cup. You need to make sure we can make a Grey Cup in the next 5 years. Milanovich needs help as well.

Your the only person i know, who gets food poisoning out of a rye bottle

[1argoholic]

Haha. No from Darryl in Winnipeg and his crap get together the night before the Grey Cup. It was at a real dive of a restaurant and our of about 30 people they forgot my food. Then I got a salad with squat except it was obviously not washed. I'll never forget that gongshow and the Argos suck. I tell you all that it's the water supply in Southern Ontario. Both the Argos and Ticats are doing very little for CFL fans in the region. Time for another drinkipoo.

[Ron]

Well they gave a good effort but fell short. Jackson didn't look that great in the 2nd half once the Als adjusted. The Als offense did just enough and they had a healthy AC at the helm.

Penalties hurt the team as they led to a lost TD and a lost INT. Almost had another INT but the ball did touch the turf and Trestman made a smart challenge. That last INT was bad on on the broadcast Suitor said that Jackson would not have seen Emry there.

Anyways. It doesn't matter much now. The Argos look good for 2nd and they really don't need to be firing on all cylinders until the playoffs start. That gives time for Ray and Kackert to return.

Go Team! The GC dream ain't dead yet!

[KCargosfan]

Obviously we need Ray back, but no team in the league really scares me outside of BC. If we have a healthy RR, anything is possible, including losing to Edmonton or Sask in the semifinal or making it to the Grey Cup. The Als are pretty underwhelming on offense without Whitaker.

[ArgoRavi]

Mike Hogan said Jones is out...is he hurt? Where did you hear that list Ravi?

The Argos tweeted this. I doubt that Kyle Jones was injured but I don't know for sure.

[ArgoRavi]

Obviously we need Ray back, but no team in the league really scares me outside of BC. If we have a healthy RR, anything is possible, including losing to Edmonton or Sask in the semifinal or making it to the Grey Cup. The Als are pretty underwhelming on offense without Whitaker.

Your and Ron's posts are pretty much bang-on. We have as good of a chance at getting to the Grey Cup as anyone and while B.C. is the best team in the league at the moment, it isn't like they are unbeatable. We need to have our starting QB though. Our defence today played about as well as you could possibly ask them to and the offence performed well in the first half but they had far too many two and outs in the second half. The fake punt call was a good one but it comes down to execution and Younger failed to do that on that play.

The bottom line is that we have as good of a chance as anyone with Ricky Ray but we need him at starting QB. Hopefully he will be 100% for the game on Friday night. The Argos made a decision to play it safe today by sitting Ray and sacrificing first place and time will tell whether that works out for them or not. The game today was winnable with Ray but there is no question that there is a drop off with Jackson and most teams are in that situation when going from starter to backup.

[1argoholic]

We miss Ray, Kackert, some more quality receivers and better adjustments by our head coach, an oc, special teams etc..etc.

Lets face it we're not a great team and we have to be thankful that Hamilton and Winnipeg also suck. The east is a farce yet again. Only in the CFL would a 7-8 team be sitting firmly in second place. We set up nicely to finish 9-9 and attemp to fluke out another Grey Cup win.

[paulwoods13]

Obviously we missed our starting QB and our starting RB a lot. But . . .

Our o-line must surely be one of the two worst in the league, if not the worst. Mtl has had a terrible year on defence, yet they made our line look abysmal. Wayne Smith sat the entire second half, replaced by Jones. Smith was on the sidelines and did not appear to be injured. Surely it is not seen as all his fault?!

Our defence teases -- they look really solid for long stretches, then surrender gigantic plays at the worst possible times, like Deslaurier's catch late in the first half on Williams and of course the Richardson TD (what a horrendous attempt at tackling we saw on that one).

And of course penalties kill us every damn game -- not just the number but the timing and magnitude. A TD and and INT wiped out by penalties -- the game definitely could have had a much different outcome if those don't happen.

I'd sure like to know why SM did not pull out the challenge flag a couple of times -- the Younger reception on the fake punt being one of them. When you're losing and so much is at stake, what have you got to lose by trying a challenge?

Despite what some people seem to feel, second place is by no means sewn up yet. We have lost four out of five, and looked bad in all four of those losses. Better win on Friday or we could end up out of the playoffs or at least out of a home playoff game.

[1argoholic]

I honestly feel Barker hasn't done enough in finding talent to fill the holes and Milanovich has to start ripping guys for the same issues we had all year. Milanovich is like a parent who has a kid that always gets into trouble but does squat about it. How many pentalties does a team have to take? Is Milanovich over his head ? It's got to be asked. This team with or without RAy is not a Grey Cup winner.

[DanTheFan]

All I was pleased with was the attendance. And I guess the D kept us in it for most of the game, but boy am I missing Ray, Kackert, and Inmann.

[paulwoods13]

Having ripped them in my earlier post, it is probably only fair that I add that many of the folks on this forum thought they would win around six games this year. I personally predicted eight to 10 wins, and I still expect we will end up 9-9 although doing so means winning both of our final two home games, which is by no means a sure thing at this point.

Part of the problem here is was started out 6-4 and many of us got fooled by the two big wins over Hamilton into believing this was a better team than it really was. This is essentially a rebuilding year after last year's regression. And we are currently without some very key pieces. But having said that, the East is weak and the hottest team down the stretch will get to the Grey Cup. Let's hope it is us and not Mtl, Edm or Ham.

[294life]

Well I had a great time. See ya in the playoffs....... Maybe.

[1argoholic]

I doubt Montreal will see us in the playoffs.

[ArgoRavi]

Yep, we might as well just throw in the towel and forget about the rest of this season. A look at the history of this league will tell you that being 7-8 and in second place in your division with three regular season games to go means that you are doomed.

[1argoholic]

This team has had the same stupid issues all year long. If you can't stop the insane penalties game in and game out your screwed. They haven't been able to do so yet. I call it as I see it. Why will they all of a sudden clue in?

[ArgoRavi]

I know that you have watched this league longer than I have, 1argoholic, and I also know that you are frustrated which is understandable. This is a team that has improved considerably from last season's version. Are they ready to win a Grey Cup this year? At the moment, they don't appear to be but you know as well as I do that things in the CFL can change very, very quickly. I do think that the Argos are capable with their defence of going a long way. Ultimately, they have to be better on special teams - which I thought that they were today at least - and they have to get Ray back and get this offence on track. Perhaps it is time to try Reinders on the offensive line. However, Ray's quick release does take some pressure off the o-line which Jackson seems incapable of doing.

As far as the other teams in the league, Montreal is still the team to beat in the east and B.C. is still the team to beat overall but neither is unbeatable. Calgary seems to be coming together somewhat right now but both Edmonton and Saskatchewan are playing at a similar inconsistent level as we are. With Ray in the lineup today, this could and likely would have been a much different game. All I know is that there is enough time left in the season to build momentum and go on a nice postseason run. I still believe that this team is capable of it but much less so without Ray at QB.

[paulwoods13]

Calgary seems to be coming together somewhat right now but both Edmonton and Saskatchewan are playing at a similar inconsistent level as we are.

Actually, Ravi, those three teams are playing pretty consistently. Sask had won three consecutive games in impressive fashion, two of them over B.C. and Cal, before losing this weekend. Edm had lost five in a row before winning. Toronto has lost four out of five and failed to dominate the lowly Bombers in their one victory over that stretch. I'm not seeing a lot of inconsistency from those three teams over the past month. Can all three of them go in a different direction? Yes. Are they playing differently than they were earlier in the season? Yes. But right now I think it's a big stretch to call them inconsistent. Four losses in five games, five losses in six games, three impressive wins in four games -- indicative of consistency, IMO.

[tc23]

The TSN Turning point was going for the fake on third down on your own 45 yardline and Prefontaine throwning to a defensive guy who cant catch !!

PUNT THE BALL AND PIN MONTREAL BACK IN THIER OWN END AND IT IS A DIFFERENT GAME !! BAD COACHING CALL !!

[Wobbler]

Due to a poorly-timed bathroom break I missed the fake punt, but on the snippet of replay that I saw, it looked like Pre threw a great ball which was dropped - so it nearly worked. We were having a heck of a time moving the ball today, so I think trying something unconventional was very much called for.

I liked the call and I think we should be running more fakes. If I had my way we'd try something sneaky every other game, although I understand why we didn't do much of that in Pre's absence.

[Nob]

What I've learned, and/or what was reinforced today, is that the Argos are only one player better than the previous 2 years - Ricky Ray. Granted, he is a huge upgrade over the other qb's that have been here, but that's all I see.

They still lack quality receivers. Owens has been great, but has done squat since Ray left the line up.

The OL has regressed.

RB is a wash. Boyd was very good, but didn't fit this scheme. Kackart can be as good in this scheme, but he needs to stay on the field.

DL ....... Ummmmmm...... My mother once said that if you can't say anything nice then don't say anything at all...... Sooooooo.....let's move on.

LB - look good. I like them. A lot.

DB's are very good too. Williams looked bad today, but that's one game and he can be replaced by Carroll.

Specials??? Where have they gone?? What once was the only advantage the Argos had has now become average, at best.

Coaching? I like to think that it is an upgrade, but the Argos, at least to me, get outplayed in the second half. Repeatedly. Are other teams really that much better at making adjustments than Milanovich? I like what Jones has done with the defence.

Sure. Anything can happen in the playoffs, but...... The Argos are the 6th best team in the league right now. They haven't gotten any better than they were in the beginning of the season. Yes, they could win in the playoffs, especially with a healthy Ray, but they are not going into the payoffs on a roll. Generally teams that do well in the playoffs go into the playoffs on a streak in the back half of he year. That is not the Argos of this year.

Too bad they can't play the Cats every week.

Are they better than previous years teams? Maybe.......sure.......probably........but not as greatly as many think. There ar a lot of holes here.

[ArgoGabe22]

After watching this game, I have nothing really to say. First time I left a game early. I left right after the Emry TD. Ok I only left because I had work at 5.

Riggs hasn't impressed me since the pre-season. Its good to see Pre back, for those who were complaining in the first few weeks, you can see how much we missed him especially in the punting game. Jackson never excited me, the lasting impression I had on him in BC was when he was the starter vs the Argos at the dome and got pulled before half time and came back in the 3rd to win the game. Maybe that's what Milonovich should've done.

If those 2 INTS stood it could have been a totally different game. I know they scored a FG after the fake punt but the play was there and I thought it was a good call.

How about we get in touch with Boyd's agent. Am I the only one that thinks if we just demoted Boyd and put him back into the lineup when Kackert was out, we might be more productive in the running. Oh well no point discussing the past. Someone mentioned why Bradwell has replaced Watt? IMO Bradwell is the most consistent receiver the Argos have and has been in the last 3 years, the guy hasn't messed up yet. Speaking of receivers, I had noticed Rambo was open on a few occasions.

[1argoholic]

We have had so many changes that I knew we'd have an up and down year but I hoped for more. I thought guys like Mann, Barnes and finally Rambo would give us more but I guess much of it can fall on the swiss cheese O line. If your qb's are always rushing passes or feeling pressure even if your open you'll be hard to find. Jackson just looked very uneasy most of the game. If all of our recivers were 6'5" or better we'd have had more completions. Jackson was tossing everything high today. It's just very frustrating to watch year in and year out. When was the last real solid team we had. It would be sweet to have a team like the 96 or 97 team again. When you'd go into a game just knowing you'd win or find ways to win. I suppose you just have to enjoy those years that much more when they come around because it's not that often.

[ArgoRavi]

The TSN Turning point was going for the fake on third down on your own 45 yardline and Prefontaine throwning to a defensive guy who cant catch !!

PUNT THE BALL AND PIN MONTREAL BACK IN THIER OWN END AND IT IS A DIFFERENT GAME !! BAD COACHING CALL !!

The call was an excellent call. The execution was the problem.

[Invader]

Not a big fan of the Argos offence, too many short passes to the sidelines...even Ricky Ray couldn't get it going. It's really a chicken-p**p offence in my books. The glaring lack of physicality by a couple of the Argo defenders, while most of their teammates were working their guts out, is inexcusable.

[1argoholic]

Just looked at game stats. We ran the ball 5 times with Riggs and Jackson once for a total of 22 yards. haha. SAD!! The dink and dunk passing is like the Lemon area all over again. It's dung alright.

[ArgoRavi]

Before Ray was injured, the Argos had the most yards offensively in the league. Moving the ball, prior to the last couple of weeks, was something that the Argos were able to do quite consistently this year. Their biggest issue, prior to Ray's injury, was scoring TDs and FGs when they got into the red zone. Over the last two weeks, the basic problem has been an inability to move the ball at all.

[Nob]

Rav: agreed that the biggest problem with Ray was converting 3's into 7's. but there were problems there with Ray too.

The emotional response is to say that the current problems (moving the chains, having the offence stay on the field, etc.,) won't disappear when Ray comes back. They should.

What has been a really big disappointment for me is that nobody has stood up to take charge of this team. Where is the heart? Where is the passion? Where is the leadership? It's the same old uninspired, lazy, stupid penalty-filled game after game after game. No killer mentality at all. It seams like there is no ownership of bad plays, dumb penalties, or poor effort (look up: Williams, TJ), and therefore no accountability.

Milanovich took the fall for the Sask game by saying he didn't have the team ready. That was the easy and right thing for him to do. The players didn't back their coach today.

[Will]

This game almost reminded me of what we were experiencing in the summers of 2006 and 2007. If you recall in 2006 Damon Allen suffered an injury in the season opener against Hamilton that kept him out for several weeks and we were stuck with Spurgeon Wynn. In 2007 Michael Bishop suffered an injury in a home game against Calgary (perhaps the Argos last true blowout believe it or not) and we were stuck with Rocky Butler and Mike McMahon for the summer. Both teams were behind going into Labour Day, but in both seasons the starting QB was able to rebound the season. We are experiencing something similar with Jackson.

Today's game played very similarly to one of those summer games. The defense plays well, but does not dominate, but the offense cannot move the ball with any sort of effectiveness. Of course, it remains to be seen whether the Argos can turn it around once Ray returns though I hope that he can. The thing is, how many games to we sacrifice to get Ray healthy? I really hope that he'd be back against Winnipeg on Friday along with Chad Kackert because I'm not sure the coaching staff has the confidence to use Gerald Riggs as actively as Kackert. Chad Owens is also struggling without Ray in the lineup. We've been skirting around the issue somewhat this season, but our WR corps still has little or no depth to it. It's still an area that needs to be addressed in the off-season.

[Ron]

Just a note to the uniformed.

There is no such thing as a fluke GC win. You see ... any football season is broken down into two parts.

1. Get into the playoffs in the best position possible
2. Just do not lose 1 little game in the playoffs

So ANY team that can accomplish both 1 and 2. They ... and ONLY they ... have accomplished the goal that every team sets out on day 1 to achieve.

Standings. Yards. Interceptions. They all have small meaning in the big picture. It's the appetizer that keep the fans sated while they await the main course which are playoff games.

There isn't a QB out there that won't trade a 6000 passing and 60 TD season for a GC win with ordinary stats.

So IMO when anyone belittles any GC win as a fluke ... they just don't know for what and why these guys on all teams are really playing.

[1argoholic]

Having said that Ron I'd take 91,96 and 97 Grey Cup wins for sheer excitement all year long over 04. I've called 04 a fluke in the past but you are correct that only one team can hold the cup at the end of the year and that's what matters. Hopefully we're heading down that road again this year but it's a very frustrating journey.

[argolio]

I'd sure like to know why SM did not pull out the challenge flag a couple of times -- the Younger reception on the fake punt being one of them. When you're losing and so much is at stake, what have you got to lose by trying a challenge?I couldn't tell for sure from where I was sitting, but on the Jumbotron it looked like Younger would have been short of the first down even if it was ruled complete. The Argo sideline got a good look at that play, so even if they thought he caught the ball, I don't think the Als retaining possession five yards further back is worth a challenge.


Not a big fan of the Argos offence, too many short passes to the sidelines...even Ricky Ray couldn't get it going. It's really a chicken-p**p offence in my books.And maybe, just maybe, your hero Jarious Jackson might have had a little something to do with the c-p offense.

[gilthethrill]

For those who think this team has improved, I beg to differ. We do have 7 wins, but only because Winnipeg & Hamilton have regressed this year. In the last 4 games I believe this team has scored 11 points in the 2nd half. Very similar story to last season when 1/2 time comes & this team offensively just falls asleep.

Even if Ricky Ray had been playing last night, the o-line appeared constructed of paper mache against a Montreal D that really is not very good except against the Argos. Andrew Jones looked horrible as a blocking TE, Tony Washington was schooled time & time again. Jackson, who sails far too many passes, was assaulted, harassed & annoyed most of the evening. What can you do? You have to stay the course. I did not see Eppel on the field or sideline for that matter, he appears to be out of favour. Time to get Reinders in the game on certain situations.

Our offensive play selection was 6 rushes & 41 passes. Gee, I bet Montreal had no idea what was coming next.

The D was ok, but those big plays continue to haunt this unit. Chris Jennings plays 1 /12 quarter & gets 86 yards rushing. How does Eric Delaurier continue to have big plays against only the Argos?

A home playoff date is on the horizon, but only by default.

My posts are normally short & too the point, but I am ticked at this team & just had to let off some steam.

[gilthethrill]

I doubt Montreal will see us in the playoffs.

I predict we will host Edmonton in the "Eastern Semi" & bow out with a whimper.

[Ron]

Even if Ricky Ray had been playing last night, the o-line appeared constructed of paper mache against a Montreal D that really is not very good except against the Argos.

One thing Ray does that Jackson doesn't is hit hot routes that kill QB pressure. Most of those all out pressures by Montreal would have been paid for if Ray was there. Naturally Montreal knew that so you saw what you saw.

[mchesher03]

I predict we will host Edmonton in the "Eastern Semi" & bow out with a whimper.

agreed - we aren't even competitive with the Western Division teams.... (except Calgary whose number we seem to have for some reason....)

[Antwon]

Chris Jones needs to cut Williams after that sad attempt to tackle Richardson on the sidelines!
He was given control over defensive personnel and Parker and Shell were not resigned.
Those two guys know how to tackle and never let up! Williams is an embarrassment to players and fans alike.

[ArgoGabe22]

Williams is a reciever turned DB. Maybe he should stay on that side of the ball. Time to bring back Carrol into the lineup.

[ArgoRavi]

I couldn't tell for sure from where I was sitting, but on the Jumbotron it looked like Younger would have been short of the first down even if it was ruled complete. The Argo sideline got a good look at that play, so even if they thought he caught the ball, I don't think the Als retaining possession five yards further back is worth a challenge.

Even if it was a catch, the TSN cameras showed that Younger fumbled right after as well and it was recovered by Emry IIRC. In other words, the only question on that play was if it was no catch or a catch and a fumble. There was simply nothing for Milanovich to challenge there. I did think that if Younger had hung onto that ball that it would have been a first down but it would have been close.

[ArgoRavi]

One thing Ray does that Jackson doesn't is hit hot routes that kill QB pressure. Most of those all out pressures by Montreal would have been paid for if Ray was there. Naturally Montreal knew that so you saw what you saw.

You are absolutely correct, Ron. Ray takes pressure off of the offensive line with his quick release. I know that this team has some issues even with Ray in the lineup but I honestly believe that yesterday's game may very well have been an Argo victory with Ray at QB. Remember that the defence only gave up 17 points despite the offence going two and out for most of the second half.

[gilthethrill]

Williams is a reciever turned DB. Maybe he should stay on that side of the ball. Time to bring back Carrol into the lineup.

I would like to know why Carrol has been out of the lineup this long.

[294life]

I wouldn't be surprised if the 2004 scenario repeated itself.

[Rich]

Just looked at game stats. We ran the ball 5 times with Riggs and Jackson once for a total of 22 yards.

If this coach truly believed we could beat Montreal on the strength of Jackson's passing ability alone, then his judgement needs to be seriously questioned.

[jerrym]

Chris Jones needs to cut Williams after that sad attempt to tackle Richardson on the sidelines!

Williams is gone.