Damien Cox is paying more attention to Argos, CFL

[ArgoRavi]

Here are a couple of recent columns including one after today's game:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/football/cfl/article/1269203--stale-cfl-needs-new-franchise-in-ottawa-cox

http://www.thestar.com/sports/football/cfl/article/1271403--toronto-argonauts-suffer-24-12-setback-to-montreal-alouettes-cox

Certainly, the issue of Braley owning two teams has taken a negative turn in Cox's eyes in a matter of a few days. Cox yearns for the Sokolowski/Cynamon ownership which we now know was funded in part by Braley. Also, it is curious how Cox complains about the lack of media coverage of the Argos. Like some on here, it looks like Cox is also writing the Argos off for this season.

[1argoholic]

The guy is a tool.

[DanTheFan]

There's that creative counting talk. That announced attendance looked accurate to me. He just wrote the article ahead of time and just copied/pasted the figure in.

[mchesher03]

Cox's own paper doesn't even give any gameday previews, etc. pretty funny for him to say there isn't enough media coverage in light of that

also funny it's the perennial line for the Damien Cox's of the world to comment on the argos attendance but never bring up tfc, raptors, etc - now that is pathetic

[matthew]

http://www.thestar.com/sports/football/cfl/article/1271403--toronto-argonauts-suffer-24-12-setback-to-montreal-alouettes-cox

Funny at that disgusting game on the weekend my friend and I were debating this very issue. Where is Braley? Anyone seen him around, heard him do an interview? Where is his voice giving direction on this team? What is his vision?

I even said to my friend, I am no Lions fan and I don't live in BC but I am aware of one particularly successful initiative that BC did the Orange Helmet Club that helped to raise the profile of the Lions in Vancouver at a time when it looked like what the Argos are here now?

Where is our orange helmet club? Are the Argos Admirals really the best we can do to raise the profile of this team? If so, that's pathetic!

I can only assume that by virtue of his slience that he is happy with lacklustre tackling, special teams that give up huge yardage and the boatloads of incurred penalties and more ominously, empty seats.

For two games in a row now I have left early because I am ashamed of what I see. My friend said that after sundays game he is not going to renew his second seat why? Because when he gives that seat to casual fans that we hope to have join us as ST holders, the team does nothing to sell itself as a good football club let alone good entertainment and frankly we're sick of making excuses on behalf of the team. I for one can no longer promise that the next game will be more fun because I don't think that the team can deliver.

Mr. Cox is asking for an answer from Mr. Braley and so am I. My season ticket account is 121075. You sir can get in touch with me now that I have posted my account number and tell me why I should fight road closures and a spend perfectly lovely Sunday afternoon coming down to the dome as opposed to something else.

[1argoholic]

Yah it pisses me off when they show Braley at some Lions games with a big smile. Sure he bought as at a time of need but he's done little to show the fans that he gives a crap. The oldest pro sports franchise in North america and we're treated like crap. Our practice facilities need a real upgrade and Rogers treats us like second class at it's Dome. Everywhere you look teams are getting upgrades or new stadiums and we're floundering. It SUCKS!!!

[matthew]

and what argoholics said too!

[Ron]

People forget that Ackles saved that team.

[argolio]

If Braley didn't buy the Argos, no one knows if we'd even have a team today. And it's not exactly a huge secret that his plan is to be here for the short-term and sell the Argos within a few years after the 2012 Grey Cup. Braley might be an absentee owner, but I don't see any non-absentee owners stepping up.

[Invader]

Cox claimed Argo attendance had declined, but he failed to mention attendance is up about 20% this season. I guess that fact didn't fit his story line.

Mr. Braley doesn't get involved in the day-to-day activities of running the Argos or Lions. He has 114 other companies to run as well as his Senatorial duties.

He rarely does media interviews with regard to his football teams. That's why he pays the big bucks to Chris Rudge and Skulsky/Buono in Vancouver to run the franchises. Sokolowski and Cynamyn loved the spotlight, did all the media interviews and preened on the sidelines for the cameras. That was just their style, no need to criticize Braley for keeping in the background. Rudge is fully capable of answering any questions the media has about the Argos.

Mr. Braley also didn't make the faked-punt call or choose the personelle involved.

Cox is really reaching to find criticisms of the Argos with:

"At least the 100th Grey Cup match at the dome is sold out. But it was the last time here, as well, so that’s not exactly a major accomplishment."

Geez, what's the alternative?

[LLB997]

Cox is a know nothing who likes to sensationalize his so called facts. Argos are no where near playing to half capacity. An Argo sellout these days would be just over 30 thousand which would make 1/2 capacity 16 thou. Argos have not had attendance that low in a longtime for reg season football. Braley stepped up big time to help the TO market and the CFL. He already owned the Lions so he did not need to own another CFL team. On top of that he has duties as a Senator as slack as those duties may be it is still a responsibility of sorts.
The most important fact of all is that Braley is in his 70's, Lets see how active Cox or any of us will be when we are 75. Most people retire by that age and some pathetic TO sportswriter thinks it's realistic for a 75 yr old business man to come in and the be the saviour for the good ship Argonauts when so many before have failed. He is doing nothing more or less than i expected from a guy who bought the team basically due to his loyalty to the CFL because no one else stepped up in terms of potential ownership. In fact i would rather he allow the right people who have been hired ( with generous pay i am sure ) around him to make qualified and sound day to day operational decisions.
Cox probably bought a BBQ from walmart and expects Sam Walton to swing by his place and assemble it for him. And his complaint about no TO "beat writers" ever meeting Braley is laughable. TO sports media are bottom of the barrel (with very few exceptions) . Why would Braley want to deal with yoyo TO beat writers who define the term "amateur hour". TO is a major league city with house league sports coverage regardless of the sport. Cox, your an idiot, no offence. please retire and take Simmons with you.

[Mulder]

Mr Cox is probably upset I called him out on twitter. Told him he never writes a positive article about the CFL or the Argos. So he decides he better ramp up and write more negative articles.

Good thing I don't have to subjected to his piss-poor opinion, My Boycott of the Toronto Star continues to this day.

[LLB997]

Mr Cox is probably upset I called him out on twitter. Told him he never writes a positive article about the CFL or the Argos. So he decides he better ramp up and write more negative articles.

Good thing I don't have to subjected to his piss-poor opinion, My Boycott of the Toronto Star continues to this day.


People still pay for the Toronto Star?? i thought it only existed so people at Starbucks had something complimentary to read with their vanilla double mochachino.

[gilthethrill]

Cox is bored due to the NHL lockout.

[AngeloV]

People still pay for the Toronto Star?? i thought it only existed so people at Starbucks had something complimentary to read with their vanilla double mochachino.

LOL!!! That is one great and funny post.

[mchesher03]

LOL!!! That is one great and funny post.

+1 - i just laughed out loud at my cube

[ArgoGabe22]

This article shows what an idiot Cox really is. Prefontaine was aQB and probably couldve done better than Jackson. Last time I checked JY has pretty good hands. Lets put our entire offence on a fake punt that will fake them out for sure.

[gilthethrill]

Can you point out Rob Murphy for me again????

[Ron]

Cox complains about media coverage?

Did he see the Sun today? Not just the front page of the paper but also more coverage than the entire NFL.

[Ron]

Cox probably bought a BBQ from walmart and expects Sam Walton to swing by his place and assemble it for him.

Now that's a good line

[ArgoGabe22]

Can you point out Rob Murphy for me again????

I will tell this story until the day I die. I was the only one there and I was waiting for a few players to get my cards signed when I heard him ask.

[ArgoGabe22]

Also must have been his first Argo game in four years. its been 2 years since the All-Time Argos were up in the 500 level.

[tc23]

Cox is a GOOF !! He has no respect for the CFL !

[johnnyice]

Some writers are ...well...writers , story tellers ; no different than any other boozed up couch potato . If he is that concerned maybe he can pony up a few shekels and float the good ship Argo . The TORSUN has Simmons.

[Argonauter]

The guy is a tool.

That's all you need to know about Damien Cox. Nothing else needs to be added.

[gilthethrill]

Also must have been his first Argo game in four years. its been 2 years since the All-Time Argos were up in the 500 level.

Who was Michael Clemons?

[1argoholic]

I don't like Cox. Damian and his brother who plays for the Als. haha. If that was my last name I'd be changing it!

[Ballstothewall]

Mr Cox is probably upset I called him out on twitter. Told him he never writes a positive article about the CFL or the Argos. So he decides he better ramp up and write more negative articles.

Good thing I don't have to subjected to his piss-poor opinion, My Boycott of the Toronto Star continues to this day.

Funny, i did the same thing, guy writes at the start of the game that only 20,000 fans are there. Then TSN and 1050 Radio talks about the late crowd coming due to the T.O Marathon and the road closures. Then both TSN and 1050 Radio say its the biggest crowd of the season by mid 2nd Q so Cox has to re-tweet that the crowd looks better then he original said. This is the same guy who said the Grey Cup in T.O would be a huge failure due to lack of interest, when they announced the game.

[Ballstothewall]

Here is the best reply to his last Argo story, by one reader
As Leafs fans we've grown accustomed to his bi-polar articles stating that the Leafs "aren't that far off" (end of regular season) and that the fans were over-reacting....to all of a sudden "breaking the news" that there's something wrong internally with this Burke regime that fans have been noticing for over a year now. So if you wanna hear news about the argos 1 year later...he's your guy.

[ArgoGabe22]

Check out the latest from the Star's finest http://www.thestar.com/sports/2013/09/27/argos_a_ticking_time_bomb_for_cfl_cox.html

[AngeloV]

Check out the latest from the Star's finest http://www.thestar.com/sports/2013/09/27/argos_a_ticking_time_bomb_for_cfl_cox.html

This has been a paid announcement from the Rogers Communications group.

He is such an a$$hole.

In order for this team to lose 6 million in a year, I'm guessing they would have to be getting pretty close ZERO from ticket sales. It costs about 10-11 million to run the team and if they are selling even 15,000 tickets average per game at an average cost of $50, over 9 home games that is 6.75 million in ticket sales. They also get money from the TV deal and corporate sponsers which must be in the 2 million range combined (and that is a conservative estimate). So if he wanted to say the team may lose in the 2-3 million neighbourhood this season, that would at least be somewhat believable.

[Downtownfan]

Wow-- another wonderful hit piece from Cox, big surprise eh? As a matter of basic journalistic ethics, he should disclose in every article that he works for Rogers, but of course he wouldn't. Neither would Blair. Funny how Braley is going to "dump" as opposed to sell to another owner (really, "ownerless"? what is that bs?), or that there is no discussion of what Braley actually said about other possible venues. Nor is there any discussion of MLSE's interest in the Argos. In Cox land, its always bad news, all the time for the Argos. He is the ultimate concern troll.

[dmont]

Check out the latest from the Star's finest http://www.thestar.com/sports/2013/09/27/argos_a_ticking_time_bomb_for_cfl_cox.html (http://www.thestar.com/sports/2013/09/27/argos_a_ticking_time_bomb_for_cfl_cox.html) Lots of big assumptions are necessary for Cox to arrive at that conclusion: 1) That sports teams have to play downtown. Just because we've always done it that way doesn't mean it's the best way. Plenty of sports teams (particularly football teams) play far away from their city's downtowns. 2) Braley wanting to sell the teams is a bad signal about the team's value. That's plain wrong. Every statement he's made about selling concerns his age and health, not the value of the team. 3) That Braley HAS to sell in three years. He's always sad he'd LIKE to sell in three years, and I don't think he will unless conditions are right or his health demands it. 4) That the Argos' attendance problems are independent of their current stadium situation. I would argue that the attendance problems are a direct result of playing on weeknights (and Sunday nights) in Downtown Toronto. He can't look at attendance and stadium as two problems when it's really one problem. 5) How on earth is the team in worse shape than under Sherwood Shwartz? Stable league, stable owner, big TV deal, good team on the field. To say otherwise is a cry for attention. 6) York University can't be part of a stadium solution. They're already building a new track/football stadium that would be too small. They're not going to be part of building a second one. 7) The Grey Cup received unprecedented millions? Really? Wasn't it under ten million? Go look at what Quebec gets for a cultural festival, then we'll talk unprecedented. 8) I think you'd see greater willingness from taxpayers to fund a stadium, in this particular case. This isn't like some ultra-profitable team playing in a perfectly serviceable stadium extorting a city to build a billion-dollar brand new stadium. This is a team that has never received or asked for big handouts that is being evicted from its current home. If the city won't renovate BMO, what else can they do? Furthermore, given Braley's recent comments to a Hamilton newspaper, he's a big believer in coupling stadium developments with big commercial and entertainment district developments, which particularly suburban politicians will fall all over themselves to support. Just look at the $120M in tax breaks the city of Toronto was willing to provide for the failed Woodbine development. 9) Damien Cox is an awful journalist.

[dmont]

Remember when he said "The Argonauts chose the worst time to win a Grey Cup because the Blue Jays are going to be so good this year" hahahahah love that crystal ball.

[Mulder]

He didn't even try and hide the fact that SportsNet Rogers released their own article saying the exact same thing.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/cfl-must-focus-on-argos-lions-not-expansion/

You can tell this corporation has an agenda in regards to the Argo's when 2 different employee's release similar articles.

[dmont]

He didn't even try and hide the fact that SportsNet Rogers released their own article saying the exact same thing.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl/cfl-must-focus-on-argos-lions-not-expansion/

You can tell this corporation has an agenda in regards to the Argo's when 2 different employee's release similar articles. I'll give Lefko the benefit of the doubt. All his article is saying is that the next few years are "critical", and that the league is less secure without Braley's help. You cant disagree with him there. That's also a far cry from "dead team walking".

[Downtownfan]

I was so annoyed that I sent this to the Star's Public Editor:

To the public editor:

Damien Cox, a writer at your paper, is also a paid employee of Rogers Communications, a firm that owns or partly owns, the Toronto Blue Jays, the Toronto Maple Leafs, the Toronto Raptors, and the TFC. Rogers also pays to have the Buffalo Bills play at the Rogers Centre. Yet he writes about all these teams, essentially writing about his fellow employees and the firm he works for.

Does it not constitute a conflict of interest that he is paid by the same corporation that he reports upon? As a matter of basic journalistic ethics, should he not disclose this relationship in every article?

Do many writers at the Star write about firms with which they have a paid relationship? Is this common practice at your newspaper?

Is this a matter for the Ontario Press Council?

[bluto]

can't bring myself to criticize a man who is willingly losing money for the sake of a football club that i love without feeling like an ingrate.

[AngeloV]

can't bring myself to criticize a man who is willingly losing money for the sake of a football club that i love without feeling like an ingrate.

I would never criticize Braley. He has basicly save 1/3 of the league.

[paulwoods13]

I was so annoyed that I sent this to the Star's Public Editor:

To the public editor:

Damien Cox, a writer at your paper, is also a paid employee of Rogers Communications, a firm that owns or partly owns, the Toronto Blue Jays, the Toronto Maple Leafs, the Toronto Raptors, and the TFC. Rogers also pays to have the Buffalo Bills play at the Rogers Centre. Yet he writes about all these teams, essentially writing about his fellow employees and the firm he works for.

Does it not constitute a conflict of interest that he is paid by the same corporation that he reports upon? As a matter of basic journalistic ethics, should he not disclose this relationship in every article?

Do many writers at the Star write about firms with which they have a paid relationship? Is this common practice at your newspaper?

Is this a matter for the Ontario Press Council?

You are on to something here. It is incumbent upon news orgs to be upfront about any real, perceived or potential connections to organizations/individuals on which they report if they want to avoid accusations of favouritism, bias or hypocrisy. Some are quite diligent about this -- the Globe and Mail usually (if not always) mentions that it is partly owned by Bell in any story it writes about Bell, regardless of whether there is even a remote connection between the subject matter and the newspaper itself. It is fair to ask why the Star has apparently not chosen to hold Cox to this standard.

As for the Press Council, a complaint would need to be registered directly with it for the council to consider holding a hearing.

[LLB997]

Well u guys are correct, cox , mccown and some guy named grange just spent a good 20 min talking Argos/cfl on the drive time show. Here are the greatest hits........ Cox: Argos could not fill a 25 thou seat stadium. Argos likely may not have 25 thousand fans period............ Mccown: Argos tv ratings in gta r not as high as some are leading everyone to believe. Braley is an absentee owner double dipping grey cups and after next BC GC he would probably not get another for a longtime = why he is selling teams. . Argos r losing boatloads. And either Cinnebon or Sourkrautski is or was married to a senator so they had some power and/or influence................cox: Hamilton screwed themselves out of a grey cup with dinky Tim Horton field and its 21 thou seats with no mention of the fact that TH field will be expandable. And in the stadium discussion, they said York is the best option and basically likened the Argos to a sponge and hangers on who are looking to get something for nothing meaning they will never be a primary owner of any sort in a stadium situation I suppose and are just looking for a free ride. If anyone here wants to hear the replay at the 590 website, just to let you know it was a part of the round table discussion and was the 5pm segment and started about 15 minutes in. cheers ps- Mccown also says the end of the franchise may been in sight. lol

[argolio]

And either Cinnebon or Sourkrautski is or was married to a senator so they had some power and/or influenceThat would be the second one.

The first one was on with Bob for a segment earlier in the week. He went over the history of attempts to get a new stadium. He also said he only started getting into watching games again recently because of his bitterness at losing the team, and he's definitely not fond of Braley at all.

Looks to me like C&S are going full-board to repair their image, and are using Bob's show to do it. Makes me wonder if they're maybe trying to get back into owning a team, or some other venture in the sports world.

[Tau Ceti]

You can find the segment LLB997's referring to here: http://www.sportsnet.ca/590/prime-time-sports/. It's the 5 pm link on Sept. 27. The Argos stuff starts at about 16:45.

[Cordo]

Damien still pulling from his very old bag of tricks.... The guy has made a career out of stirring the pot in the laziest way possible. Better off to just ignore what he says because it's just fluff to get a reaction.

[1argoholic]

They are all just a bunch of hacks just trying to stir the BS.

[ArgoRavi]

I like Perry Lefko but I don't understand why he says that the Hamilton ownership situation is muddy at all. If Bob Young were going to bail on that team, he would have done it long ago. He certainly would not do it at a time when they are about to become profitable with the new TV deal and a move into their new stadium. Also, Braley has had numerous offers for the Lions over the last few years so there is nothing to worry about there. He will end up selling that team for a good amount at some point within the next three years.

As for Cox and McCown, where do I begin? If McCown has TV numbers that are different from the published ones, I would love to see them. TSN is giving the CFL a record number of dollars for TV rights so one would think that the TV numbers in the GTA can't be that bad. As AV has said, that $6 million loss figure Cox writes about is baffling and makes no sense at all. Furthermore, with the new TV contract kicking in next year, the Argos won't be far from at least breaking even, even playing at SkyDome. Put them in a proper stadium with control of their own dates and a larger share of revenues other than just ticket sales, and this team stands to make some good money moving forward. I believe that we aren't that far away from some glory days ahead for our Argos but there is much work to be done. However, Cox makes it sound like they have one foot in the grave.

FAN 590 seems to have the approach with the Argos that they won't talk about them unless it is something negative. Have they talked at all about the Argos' on-field fortunes this year? I guess that Rogers doesn't want to remind anyone about the wreck of a baseball team that they have on their hands so it is time to fear monger about the Argos instead.

[ArgoRavi]

Well u guys are correct, cox , mccown and some guy named grange just spent a good 20 min talking Argos/cfl on the drive time show. Here are the greatest hits........ Cox: Argos could not fill a 25 thou seat stadium. Argos likely may not have 25 thousand fans period............ Mccown: Argos tv ratings in gta r not as high as some are leading everyone to believe. Braley is an absentee owner double dipping grey cups and after next BC GC he would probably not get another for a longtime = why he is selling teams. . Argos r losing boatloads. And either Cinnebon or Sourkrautski is or was married to a senator so they had some power and/or influence................cox: Hamilton screwed themselves out of a grey cup with dinky Tim Horton field and its 21 thou seats with no mention of the fact that TH field will be expandable. And in the stadium discussion, they said York is the best option and basically likened the Argos to a sponge and hangers on who are looking to get something for nothing meaning they will never be a primary owner of any sort in a stadium situation I suppose and are just looking for a free ride. If anyone here wants to hear the replay at the 590 website, just to let you know it was a part of the round table discussion and was the 5pm segment and started about 15 minutes in. cheers ps- Mccown also says the end of the franchise may been in sight. lol

Stephen Brunt wasn't around to pile on?

[1argoholic]

Brunt is another jackwagon.

[Argo57]

McClown is simply educating the dull masses (including us Argofans) with his great knowledge and supreme wisdom we should all simply say "Thank you O Great One" and stop being bitter!!!!

[Argocister]

Does this type of reporting happen anywhere else? .... Only in Canada? .... Pity

Canadians have a habit of pissing on their own but holding others on a pedestal. The Star, fan 590 and Rogers owned media have lowered any expectations of any media reports I read. If it's one of those three, i) I try not to read it and secondly of other journalistic endeavours ii) I am extremely suspect of anything I read from all types of media.
At least TSN doesn't dis the Blue Jays ...... more than they deserve ;)

But the main question is .... Does this happen only in Toronto ?

although I am "PO"ed at TSN radio ..... I'm out of the province and decide to listen to football Fridays on my phone .... Maybe 60 sec on the CFL .... THEN CALL IT WHAT IT IS ... NFL Friday talks! What a bloody waste of data and money :angry:

[ArgoZ]

It's almost unbelievable that so many of our past friends have become our enemies. To cloud matters even more, it all happens when we have just won the Cup and are playing unbelievable ball. In perfect circumstances, Argos should be ruling this town. WTF?

[1argoholic]

Some people think that that Centre Of The Universe, better than anyone else attitude doesn't exsist in Toronto anymore. I say a huge BS to that. You'd think that these Cox would have brought the BS level down a notch or two after such events like SARS, The Blackout, Eaton Centre Gun Play. Life is too short to rip on a Canadian icon. I don't believe this happens in any other media outlet in Canada. The politics of it all stinks too bad. All of these clowns are a bunch of useless sellouts. They'd turncoat in a heartbeat if they got different positions with another non Rogers corporation.

[doubleblue]

I have been disappointed in McCown lately with his negative comments of the CFL. He used to be a big CFL booster, and at one time was part of a group trying to put a team in Las Vegas. Things have changed since his buddies C & S had to be bailed out by Braley and TSN started up their own radio shows in competition to 590. I really question that 6 million loss, the numbers don't add up unless most of the 20,000 attendance don't pay for their tickets. The Argos won't have any trouble drawing 25,000 consistently in a new stadium with all Friday nights and Saturday or Holiday games.

[bluto]

speaking of "with friends like these..." i felt that Zicarelli took some broadsides at us today too...

[Will]

McCown used to have Pinball and Barker on PTS quite often around 2010-2011. Even if there was negativity starting to creep in at that point, there still was a bit of respect left there to discuss the team's on-field performance instead of dwelling on the off-field performance. Keep in mind that the FAN still owned the Argo radio rights until the end of the 2010 season I do believe. I remember in 2003, for example, Cox and McCown discussing the Argos semi-final win over BC and how they both thought the Argos had a legitimate chance to beat Montreal in the Eastern Final. Never get that type of discussion now.

Argocister, the sense I get from TSN 1050 is that while Richards, Naylor and of course Hogan are CFL fans you went get much talk about the CFL from Mackowycz or Cauz (which is weird b/c Cauz works for CFL.ca) or Hayes although I think Hayes has interviewed an Argo from time-to-time.

[argotom]

The Fan 590 with the tools McCown, Cox, Brunt et all is a reflection but much worse then the rest of the media in Toronto. Although I was certainly willing to give TSN radio a try, it is almost getting as bad without the negativity to an extent like the Fan. Like a light Fan 590 is TSN, with the exception of Naylor, Richards and Hogan. The NHL with Leaf coverage is way over the top as is the NFL and Crap Jays. As for the poster who wanted to know, yes this is typical of Toronto the wannabe world class and also US city. Having grown up in the city regrettably it has always been like this current mentality and it makes me ashamed to call this home not only from this perspective but the angst of anything Canadian. No wonder the rest of the nation hates us and rightfully so.

[Cordo]

As for Cox and McCown, where do I begin? If McCown has TV numbers that are different from the published ones, I would love to see them. TSN is giving the CFL a record number of dollars for TV rights so one would think that the TV numbers in the GTA can't be that bad.

What was his argument about the TV numbers? Was it backed up with any evidence? TSN giving the league more money is pretty cut & dried. If the CFL didn't generate ratings, TSN wouldn't have bother to do that.

[argolio]

What was his argument about the TV numbers? Was it backed up with any evidence? TSN giving the league more money is pretty cut & dried. If the CFL didn't generate ratings, TSN wouldn't have bother to do that.He said something to the effect that GTA CFL ratings aren't that impressive. Is he right? Hard to say since we almost never get news about TV ratings broken down by region.

[ArgoRavi]

It sounded like Mike Hogan was sending a message to McCown on tonight's post-game show when he said that the Argo game was the second highest rated program in the Toronto market last Saturday night. He also talked about how the Argos were trending very strongly on Twitter tonight.

[Will]

He said something to the effect that GTA CFL ratings aren't that impressive. Is he right? Hard to say since we almost never get news about TV ratings broken down by region.

It's not necessarily a new narrative amongst those unfriendly to the CFL.

[paulwoods13]

From Steve Simmons' Sunday column:

This surprises me: Last week’s Argo game in Calgary had a higher national television audience than the Blue Jays game it was opposite. But what surprised me more: The local ratings for the Argos game were higher than the local ratings for the Jays ... Also surprising: CFL ratings on ESPN2 in the U.S. have been better than anyone might have expected. For the week of July 22 to 28, CFL football blew away MLS soccer and had better numbers than all five weeknight showings of Baseball Tonight ...

If the Argos really are outdrawing the Blue Jays head to head on TV in Toronto (which I believe is quite likely) TSN should do a much better job than they are of publicizing that fact.

[argotom]

Yes I read that this morning. In fact, had to read it twice. "Surprising", what a moron!

[ArgoRavi]

It's not necessarily a new narrative amongst those unfriendly to the CFL.

Yes, doesn't Greg Brady absolutely refuse to believe how large the CFL's TV ratings are?

[ArgoRavi]

Yes I read that this morning. In fact, had to read it twice. "Surprising", what a moron!

One part that should not have been surprising at all is that the CFL drew higher national ratings than the Blue Jays. That has been a regular occurrence for some time now.

[paulwoods13]

Yes I read that this morning. In fact, had to read it twice. "Surprising", what a moron!

It is surprising -- i.e. unexpected -- because those numbers are not widely reported. Which, as I said above, means Bell/TSN needs to do a better job getting the word out. There is a lot of unchallenged hype about how well the BJays do -- if the CFL indeed draws bigger ratings, why isn't the network that draws those ratings shouting about it every week?

[Cordo]

I know TSN posts stuff on twitter about the ratings that CFL games generate. It doesn't seem like it's their MO to spend air time bragging about how many viewers their TV content generates. Seems like something Sportsnet would do. Could be because they are more watched in general than Sportsnet...

Anyway regardless of whether or not Simmons is late to the party, it must be maddening for the Argos to know people are watching but the interest doesn't seem to translate into them going to the stadium.

[argotom]

Don't know if anyone else read his other two statements. One fact about the great ESPN TV numbers and the other pure stupidity. You can always talk Argos with a true fan even in this crazy wannabe city of ours. "Also surprising: CFL ratings on ESPN2 in the U.S. have been better than anyone might have expected. For the week of July 22 to 28, CFL football blew away MLS soccer and had better numbers than all five weeknight showings of Baseball Tonight ... And that said, I wish I could find somebody to talk Argos football with occasionally. Three road wins in a row (maybe four) and all I get from anyone is a so-what shrug".

[paulwoods13]

I know TSN posts stuff on twitter about the ratings that CFL games generate. It doesn't seem like it's their MO to spend air time bragging about how many viewers their TV content generates. Seems like something Sportsnet would do. Could be because they are more watched in general than Sportsnet...

Anyway regardless of whether or not Simmons is late to the party, it must be maddening for the Argos to know people are watching but the interest doesn't seem to translate into them going to the stadium.

They don't need to crow about it on air, but they should be sending out news releases and posting info on their site, CFL forums, etc. If you want the media to stop reporting falsehoods (such as those who pooh-pooh CFL ratings), then you need to put the actual numbers into the public domain so people can find out for themselves.

[Will]

Yes, doesn't Greg Brady absolutely refuse to believe how large the CFL's TV ratings are?

I've seen that mentioned, but I haven't listened to the FAN 590 morning show in any regularity since it was Landry and Stellick.

[Tau Ceti]

If you want the media to stop reporting falsehoods (such as those who pooh-pooh CFL ratings), then you need to put the actual numbers into the public domain so people can find out for themselves.

BBM publishes the top 30 programs every week, which the CFL usually cracks (779,000 average last week). Is there any other source out there that regularly publishes Canadian ratings numbers for sports? Or is it just piecemeal when ever the networks feel like revealing something? I agree that it would be TSN's interest to publicize this stuff as a matter of routine.

[ArgoRavi]

It is a shame that The Star no longer has Chris Zelkovich's Sports Media column. He would have the ratings every week. I wonder why the Star stopped having that column.

[VANRIDERFAN]

It is a shame that The Star no longer has Chris Zelkovich's Sports Media column. He would have the ratings every week. I wonder why the Star stopped having that column. Because it didn't fit with the agenda being pushed by the Toronto Sports Media?

[doubleblue]

I know TSN posts stuff on twitter about the ratings that CFL games generate. It doesn't seem like it's their MO to spend air time bragging about how many viewers their TV content generates. Seems like something Sportsnet would do. Could be because they are more watched in general than Sportsnet...

Anyway regardless of whether or not Simmons is late to the party, it must be maddening for the Argos to know people are watching but the interest doesn't seem to translate into them going to the stadium. I wonder (and I think they can) if the networks can tell where people are watching from. That might be a good indication as to where to build the next stadium. Build it where they are (I believe they're mostly in the 905) and they will come.

[Cordo]

They don't need to crow about it on air, but they should be sending out news releases and posting info on their site, CFL forums, etc. If you want the media to stop reporting falsehoods (such as those who pooh-pooh CFL ratings), then you need to put the actual numbers into the public domain so people can find out for themselves.

TSN doesn't have to prove anything because they handed the league more money when they renegotiated the TV contract. Why would a television network hand a sports league what is rumored to be more than double what it got before... if those ratings were false? Doesn't make any sense at all. It's up to those making the accusations to prove what they are alleging. What's their evidence?

[paulwoods13]

TSN doesn't have to prove anything because they handed the league more money when they renegotiated the TV contract. Why would a television network hand a sports league what is rumored to be more than double what it got before... if those ratings were false? Doesn't make any sense at all. It's up to those making the accusations the prove what they are alleging. What's their evidence?

If someone reports a falsehood and no one challenges it, people start to believe it. If you are getting fantastic ratings, and you want to promote your property, you should get the word out about those ratings -- especially if your competitors are spreading falsehoods. I can guarantee that no one at Rogers is feeling as if the burden of proof is on themselves. All's fair in war.

I noticed Chris Cuthbert tweeted today about the Tor-Edm ratings so it seems at least he agrees with me.

[LLB997]

What makes me laugh is that Toronto teams tv ratings would surprise Simmons at this point. The man has been in the business a thousand years, you would expect he would already be (and he probably is) well aware of where teams fit in the local sports landscape at the box office AND on TV.

[mint83]

A lot of people have probably seen this but Cohon said in Kelowna (of all places) last week that TV ratings are up 14% this year. I'm not sure if he is considering RDS in those figures.

[paulwoods13]

What makes me laugh is that Toronto teams tv ratings would surprise Simmons at this point. The man has been in the business a thousand years, you would expect he would already be (and he probably is) well aware of where teams fit in the local sports landscape at the box office AND on TV.

Again, if the ratings aren't released or easily accessible to reporters, how would he or anyone know what they were? I suggest he was surprised because he has been hearing erroneous info from certain media outlets who have a vested interest in making their own properties look good. Like I said above, falsehoods unchallenged tend to be believed.

[argotom]

Just think of the potential for a further increase in TV ratings for next year when Ottawa comes in. Can we be far from an average of 1M viewers per game?

[flafson]

You guys need to remember that football as a game is a lot more fun to watch than baseball, add the fact that Blue Jays sucked big time this year and you get better Argos numbers.

[argotom]

You guys need to remember that football as a game is a lot more fun to watch than baseball, add the fact that Blue Jays sucked big time this year and you get better Argos numbers.You forgot to mention and certainly in my opinion, CFL football is also better then watching cycling, clutch and grab NHL hockey.

[argos1873]

BBM publishes the top 30 programs every week, which the CFL usually cracks (779,000 average last week). Is there any other source out there that regularly publishes Canadian ratings numbers for sports? Or is it just piecemeal when ever the networks feel like revealing something? I agree that it would be TSN's interest to publicize this stuff as a matter of routine.

Isn't the BBM the one who tracks ratings for TV and radio in Canada? I don't think its the networks who do it. It would have to be an independent body, since if you left it up to the networks to do, they would just inflate their numbers, since higher ratings equal more advertising dollars. Therefore its up to whoever has access to the BBM's numbers to reveal ratings which I'm sure would include the media, networks and advertisers.

[flafson]

You forgot to mention and certainly in my opinion, CFL football is also better then watching cycling, clutch and grab NHL hockey.

I personally dislike hockey but i wasn't born in Canada so...
To be honest though, i also didn't like football and baseball before i came here.

[argolio]

You forgot to mention and certainly in my opinion, CFL football is also better then watching cycling, clutch and grab NHL hockey.Clutch and grab?? Clearly you haven't watched much hockey lately.

[Ballstothewall]

From Steve Simmons' Sunday column:

This surprises me: Last week’s Argo game in Calgary had a higher national television audience than the Blue Jays game it was opposite. But what surprised me more: The local ratings for the Argos game were higher than the local ratings for the Jays ... Also surprising: CFL ratings on ESPN2 in the U.S. have been better than anyone might have expected. For the week of July 22 to 28, CFL football blew away MLS soccer and had better numbers than all five weeknight showings of Baseball Tonight ...

If the Argos really are outdrawing the Blue Jays head to head on TV in Toronto (which I believe is quite likely) TSN should do a much better job than they are of publicizing that fact.

Thank-You Paul. I email Simmons back and told him. It's not surprising that the Argos are beating the Jays when going head to head, what"s surprising is the media talking about it

[Ballstothewall]

They don't need to crow about it on air, but they should be sending out news releases and posting info on their site, CFL forums, etc. If you want the media to stop reporting falsehoods (such as those who pooh-pooh CFL ratings), then you need to put the actual numbers into the public domain so people can find out for themselves.

I can"t tell you how many free lunches, i have won at work over my standard bet, That CFL ratings beat, baseball, Basketball, etc. When i show the people the ratings, the comment is always the same. WHY DOES THE LEAGUE AND TSN NOT DO A BETTER JOB OF MARKETING THIS FACT. it's good for me, because i:m getting fat on the free lunches, but i couold not agree more with you Paul

[flafson]

I'm sure if Bell or Rogers owned the Argos, they would market it more than anything else, right now the only reason to market the CFL is the TSN deal. To be fair, they have done a much better job at it this year, i've never seen CFL clips and ads before this season.

[argotom]

As much as we and most of us hate anything that is Rogers, lets for a second see how they cover and really over the top with the Crap Jays. There is a 30 minute pre game show, then we have on another station the wrap up show or whatever it is called and finally Jays in 30 minutes game. What a concept give them credit for this way over the top coverage. At the same token for the NHL, TSN has who knows how many hockey shows daily, starting each night at 7pm and then there is some sort of wrap up each night, some horrible guy called Koulias. The CFL being the second most popular sports TV property in comparison does not have anywhere near this time consumption. We are lucky to get a 30 minute pre game once per week. TSN has done an average job, however for all of the money they have been making on the league, the coverage is nowhere close to where it should be.

[AngeloV]

As much as we and most of us hate anything that is Rogers, lets for a second see how they cover and really over the top with the Crap Jays. There is a 30 minute pre game show, then we have on another station the wrap up show or whatever it is called and finally Jays in 30 minutes game. What a concept give them credit for this way over the top coverage. At the same token for the NHL, TSN has who knows how many hockey shows daily, starting each night at 7pm and then there is some sort of wrap up each night, some horrible guy called Koulias. The CFL being the second most popular sports TV property in comparison does not have anywhere near this time consumption. We are lucky to get a 30 minute pre game once per week. TSN has done an average job, however for all of the money they have been making on the league, the coverage is nowhere close to where it should be.

For starters, you can't compare Rogers coverage on the Blue Jays with TSN's on the CFL. Rogers OWNS the Blue Jays, it is basically paid programming which is something they must do to promote their own property. You also need to come the realization that Hockey is and will always be the most popular sport in this country. The ratings reflect it and the advertising revenue it produces is what drives the network to provide what you determine to be "over the top" coverage. TSN pays the CFL more than they have ever been paid before for their broadcast rights. I'm sure nobody at the league level is complaining about their share of coverage. And finally, Kouleas is very good.

What amazes me, is how you seem to always know so much about things you claim not to watch.

[argotom]

For starters, you can't compare Rogers coverage on the Blue Jays with TSN's on the CFL. Rogers OWNS the Blue Jays, it is basically paid programming which is something they must do to promote their own property. You also need to come the realization that Hockey is and will always be the most popular sport in this country. The ratings reflect it and the advertising revenue it produces is what drives the network to provide what you determine to be "over the top" coverage. TSN pays the CFL more than they have ever been paid before for their broadcast rights. I'm sure nobody at the league level is complaining about their share of coverage. And finally, Kouleas is very good.

What amazes me, is how you seem to always know so much about things you claim not to watch. Of course, Rogers owns the channels and it is easier with same. But still, look how they promote the team regardless. Hockey is the most popular sport, but were you aware how the CFL TV numbers are a close second? As for Kouleas, that's your opinion. I no longer watch hockey, however when channel surfing and especially on the sporting dials content is observed no matter the brief length of time seen.

[Argonauter]

Cox seems to still be writing anything negative he can about the CFL. Nothing seems to have changed with him.