Joel Reinders wake up call [Archive]

Argonauter

01-23-2012, 02:30 PM

When is Joel Reinders going to realize that if he wants to play professional football that it has to be with the Toronto Argonauts?

Heres a youtube video of him preparing for the NY Giants training camp and as far as I know he never attended it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qWrXPZeSpY

Anyone know why this guy is so resistant to the CFL and the Argos?

DanTheFan

01-23-2012, 02:38 PM

You never know. He could be at camp this year.

Area 51

01-23-2012, 05:10 PM

Gain 20lbs in 4 weeks? That's going to do nothing to help him because it'll be all water/garbage weight. To gain that much that fast even with the help of "supplements" would still not be good weight. He'll just get puffed up.

He needs to try and gain 20lbs of lean weight, but that's going to take a lot longer than just 4 weeks.

Definitely a wasted draft pick, but do they even want him at this point? Just two years experience at Waterloo, and then sitting out for the last two years - - this guy has no future in football. I think there's a better chance Nick Kaczur or Dan Federkeil join the Argos than this Reinders character.

ArgoRavi

01-23-2012, 05:33 PM

Jim Barker said recently that Reinders is still in their pipeline. I don't know how good he will be and Area 51's concerns about him may be valid considering how little actual football he has played but hopefully the Argos will be able to soon find out whether he has been worth all the hype or not.

1argoholic

01-23-2012, 06:22 PM

Sick of seeing all of these names of wasted picks. This tool has his head in the clouds somewhere. The Giants also told him to run and jump though hoops so he does that after his ten protein shakes and pasta, then barfs. Then it's like groundhog day, he has to do it all again. TOOL!!!!

bluto

01-24-2012, 11:29 AM

i'm all for drafting the best available athletes. like Ravi, my major concern here is how little actual football he has played. on the plus side, he obviously is hard working (doing five two-a-days a week) so hopefully he could be as dedicated a learner as he is a workout warrior.

i'm not worried about Area 51's concern here at all. when you're 300 pounds to begin with, 20 pounds is only another 6% of your body weight. and it obviously won't be "garbage weight" as you call it when he is spending so much time in strength and agility training. those SST guys know what they're on about.

Argocister

01-24-2012, 06:38 PM

Where has he been the last few years? Has he been on a practice roster? He had limited game time in university ..... I think he only played for 1-2 years.
My thoughts, there are other non-imports that have been on teams or practice rosters that would be more attractive ( see the article on Matte from the Alouettes) ..... but then again I'm not a coach.
Obviously his athletic ability has kept him in the pipeline.

argolio

01-25-2012, 01:13 AM

Area 51

01-25-2012, 02:45 AM

I just don't get how a guy with fairly limited football experience will ever get anywhere while not being attached to a pro team. Either his representatives are giving him bad advice or he just doesn't listen to them.

Doesn't make much sense at all - - two years at Waterloo followed by two years of nothing? No question he's got NFL size, but what about technique and agility? His game film shows him pushing around some kids half his size from York and UofT.

Must be a reason he'd rather sit at home instead of coming to develop his game in the CFL. Are his advisors worried that he'll come into camp and get used as a turnstile then end up being cut from the CFL? That would end all hope of another NFL chance. This guy's starting to remind me of that high school kid from Brampton that declared for the NBA draft a few years back.

paulwoods13

01-25-2012, 10:04 AM

Nothing has changed from a year ago -- he is going to have to decide if he wants to play pro football. If he does, it's evident that his only real chance to do so is by coming to the Argos. If he plays well up here for a couple of years, he could still have a shot at the NFL. If he doesn't follow that path, he has NO chance of making the NFL.

1argoholic

01-25-2012, 02:02 PM

Maybe without the Waterloo steroids he has lost confidence.

gilthethrill

01-25-2012, 06:15 PM

It would be interesting what Reinders could actually do in a game situation. Although, he seems not to be too interested in being tested in that environment since he won't sign with the only team (Argos) that he has a possibility of earning a roster spot. Even that is not a lock.

The only thing keeping him from actually playing football instead of talking about playing football must be bad advice.

ArgoGabe22

01-25-2012, 06:21 PM

AngeloV

01-25-2012, 09:20 PM

I don't even want him on this team. With that attitude I can tell he's not a team player and he'll just be a distraction. National Post should try to interview him, maybe he'll be doing pushups on his driveway trying to attract NFL interest.

I think you're taking it way too personally. I can't blame him for wanting to play in the NFL. Hopefully, he eventually realizes that with not much playing experience, the NFL is a huge long shot at best, and decides to give the Argos his best efforts.

Area 51

01-25-2012, 09:52 PM

Like I said, he's got the size NFL teams look for. A team might look at him and feel as if they can develop him into a useful player - - sorta like how Ben Johnson got signed to a CFL contract. And if he spends a year or two on the practice roster, he's bringing in $185k per year, even if he never progresses beyond being a 6'8" 320lb pylon.

But if he comes into Toronto and gets destroyed, then he's got no hope at the NFL. So it's understandable why he wouldn't want to come to the CFL. Happens in every sport - - handlers try to protect their guys so they can get a big payout in boxing by ducking all the top contenders and beating up soup cans. Some guys go to the combine and won't run the 40yd because they don't want to get exposed as being too slow and kill their draft stock.

Combined total of two years playing football at Waterloo - - not exactly a football factory. Hasn't played in 2 plus years since then. Let's be realistic, the idea of a 6'8" 320lb monster suddenly dominating for the Argos is a complete fantasy. This guy does not have the ability to play pro football.

Even at this point it's a longshot for him to get an NFL after two years away from the game.

paulwoods13

01-25-2012, 10:00 PM

If he was ever going to make an NFL practice roster, it would have been in 2011 after a year of full-time prep. As far as I know, he did not even go to a camp. He's not going to make even a PR unless he gets some playing time somewhere. I hope he gets here at some point but I'll be very surprised if it ever happens. At least he was a low draft choice.

OV Argo

01-25-2012, 11:03 PM

Too bad Nick Kaczur wasn't bored enough/still wanting to play football or in need of some ca$h to show-up for the Argos; now that would be a signing that could mean a lot maybe - proven football player - DI college all-star and multi-year starter on a very good NFL offence. Have no idea what he is up to since leaving the Patriots? - hoping for another NFL look somewhere? Would the Argos' brass have tried to contact him?

Reinders, OTOH - proven basically zip in football - i don't get the continued fascination with the guy - i guess because the Argos gambled a draft pick on him hoping he could develop into a good CFL player? Good luck with the NFL Joel.

Area 51

01-26-2012, 12:40 AM

I think Kaczur's issue is that he's physically done. I don't think he ever recovered from his back injury.

jerrym

01-26-2012, 07:38 AM

I liked him as a late-round pick since the finished high quality picks are gone by then leaving only low potential and high potential but little experience and skill choices. He was worth the risk, although I think there is little chance he will make it now, having squandered a couple of years.

gilthethrill

01-26-2012, 09:22 AM

I think Kaczur's issue is that he's physically done. I don't think he ever recovered from his back injury.

You are bang on Area 51. I work with a guy who is buddies with Kaczur. He told me he is 50lbs under his playing weight. He is also enjoying family life.

ArgoRavi

01-26-2012, 10:02 AM

You are bang on Area 51. I work with a guy who is buddies with Kaczur. He told me he is 50lbs under his playing weight. He is also enjoying family life.

Don't forget that he had some issues with pain pills IIRC so playing football probably isn't what he needs to be doing at this point in his life. He has already made substantial money in the NFL as well which leaves even less incentive to continue playing.

gilthethrill

01-26-2012, 10:23 AM

Don't forget that he had some issues with pain pills IIRC so playing football probably isn't what he needs to be doing at this point in his life. He has already made substantial money in the NFL as well which leaves even less incentive to continue playing.

Thats right Ravi. I believe, if memory serves his back was causing him that pain. Losing 50 lbs may help eleviate the pain as well.

paulwoods13

01-26-2012, 10:54 AM

When was the last time a guy started for several seasons in the NFL, then came to the CFL (excluding Ricky Williams, whose situation was unique)? Kaczur started the lion's share of games for five seasons with the Pats -- he would have made huge money by comparison to CFL salaries. Even if he was healthy and had no takers in the NFL, I cannot imagine he would play in Canada even for $200k/year. Mike Schad came back to Canada, but that was ages ago when salaries were a lot closer. I can't recall any other longterm NFL starters who came to the CFL in the past few decades. Maybe I'm forgetting someone?

c33

01-26-2012, 11:21 AM

^ Tommy Kane?

argonaut11xx

01-26-2012, 01:28 PM

hmm..maybe Chris Shultz...3 seasons with the cowboys...then a bunch with the Argo's....before that Maybe Jimmy Young who was traded by the Vikings for Joe Kapp....

interesting question....

paulwoods13

01-26-2012, 02:58 PM

ArgoRavi

01-26-2012, 10:41 PM

But did Schultz start regularly in Dallas? I don't think he was a starter for most of his time down there, in contrast to Kazcur. I think Jim Mills may also have started a bit in the NFL before coming to Canada, but not for several seasons.

Kane was a first-stringer in the NFL for quite a while -- I had forgotten about him.

IIRC, Kane donated his Argo salary to charity. Unfortunately his life took a very dark turn a few years ago but that is a whole other story.

Unless a player is healthy enough and still has a great love for the game, the incentive isn't strong to make a move to the CFL after several years of starting and drawing the commensurate salary in the NFL.

OV Argo

01-26-2012, 10:58 PM

Schad came back to the CFL/Ottawa Rough Riders in 95 or so Paul; and while NFL salaries (including minimum) may not have been as high as today, they were still by then wayyyyyyyyyyyy bigger than CFL pay-days, and also those were CFL is teetering on the brink type days too, so CFL pay-cheques were not on average that great. Schad would be one of the few examples of Canadian guys who played and started for awhile in the NFL, coming back to play in the CFL. Maybe he loved the game, liked playing close to home, wanted the pay-cheque - coulda been a combo of those factors.

I wonder if even if the likes of Kaczur, Federkeil if healthy enough would have had interest in showing up in the CFL to play for the Argos... or Tim Biakabatuka or Clifton Dawson, or maybe Cory Greenwood down the road?
:hmmmm:
The days of NFL to CFL salaries = "a lot closer" - more like the 70s maybe into the early 80s - Argos signed the likes of Terry Metcalf and Bruce Clark.

argolio

01-26-2012, 11:22 PM

It was the NFL reaction to the USFL, and the drop-off in the CFL TV contract from '86 to '87 where the gap in salaries really took off.

Argonauter

02-26-2012, 10:59 AM

According to the wiki article on Reinders he will be attending the NY Giants training camp again in 2012. Those wiki articles can be unreliable though but I just thought I'd post the update on him. I don't know why they'd have him back if he wasn't even on their practice roster last year and they already have seen him and didn't think enough of him to add him to their practice roster.

He was on the New York Giants roster for training camp in 2011, and will be returning for 2012.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Reinders

ArgoRavi

02-26-2012, 01:49 PM

According to the wiki article on Reinders he will be attending the NY Giants training camp again in 2012. Those wiki articles can be unreliable though but I just thought I'd post the update on him. I don't know why they'd have him back if he wasn't even on their practice roster last year and they already have seen him and didn't think enough of him to add him to their practice roster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Reinders

Reinders had a workout for the Giants in 2011 but was never in their training camp. I don't recall Reinders ever being on Cleveland's practice roster either as his wiki indicates. It sounds like the person who wrote this has a vivid imagination.

Argonauter

02-27-2012, 08:26 AM

Reinders had a workout for the Giants in 2011 but was never in their training camp. I don't recall Reinders ever being on Cleveland's practice roster either as his wiki indicates. It sounds like the person who wrote this has a vivid imagination.

Thanks for clearing that up Ravi. I don't know when this guy is going to grow up with a professional attitude and realize that the NFL is an elusive dream at best. He needs to come into Argos training camp and compete for a spot here to get his pro career going.

ArgoGabe22

03-13-2012, 09:03 PM

According to my secret source that no one knows about. Reinders has signed a PR deal with the NY Giants.

Argocister

03-13-2012, 10:52 PM

Also according to David Naylors twitter . ( http://twitter.com/#!/TSNDaveNaylor )
It will be very interesting to see how far he can make it on their roster. If he actually makes it onto the lineup, even dressing as a backup, it will be hats off to him for the hard work. He had very limited playing time in his CIS career and before. I believe he played basketball for the most part. Mind you, each team he works with teaches him more of the system.
Otherwise, ..... does the money he earns with these various tryouts and limited practice roster placements out weigh what he may receive from a CFL team? and then would a CFL team put the effort into training him?

1argoholic

03-14-2012, 12:37 AM

Screw him and the horse he rode in on. Waste of a draft pick.

argoooos

03-14-2012, 01:44 PM

he's a 4th round draft pick. how many 4th rounders aren't on the team anymore or never made it in the first place

1argoholic

03-14-2012, 01:50 PM

A 4th round CFL pick should still be a quality player. We don't actually have huge numbers drafted every year.

argoooos

03-14-2012, 02:16 PM

thats true and i'm not saying i don't want him to come play for us but if your argument is that he's not a quality player, look at who he just signed with. pretty sure they know what they're getting themselves into. all i'm saying is i think barker made a good call drafting him so low because if he happens to stick with an nfl team or gives up football altogether then its no skin off our back cause "wasting" a 4th round draft pick is not likely going to make or break our season.

paulwoods13

03-14-2012, 07:21 PM

A 4th round CFL pick should still be a quality player. We don't actually have huge numbers drafted every year.

As far as I know, only one guy chosen in the fourth round of the 2010 draft (Akeem Foster) is a regular in the CFL -- he was chosen one pick before Reinders so no can accuse the Argos of wasting the pick instead of taking Foster. Fifth round: two guys are regulars on special teams (Cauchy Muamba and Justin Palardy). Sixth round: none. So unless some guys develop late, that draft was essentially done by the third round.

argotom

03-14-2012, 10:19 PM

Screw him and the horse he rode in on. Waste of a draft pick.

Agreed.
When he comes back, ignore him.

ArgoRavi

03-15-2012, 12:55 AM

I understand the anger towards Reinders as I too am irritated with him. Ultimately though, we can't blame him for wanting the NFL and the potential big payday that might bring. However, I can't help but think that he would have been further ahead if he had played a year or two in the CFL before taking a shot at the NFL but the Giants apparently see something in him despite his lack of football experience so I guess that he is getting what he wants for now. I must admit that I am quite surprised that he is getting another NFL shot given that most of what anyone has seen of him has been on YouTube.

Will

03-15-2012, 01:07 AM

ArgoRavi

03-15-2012, 01:30 AM

My opinion on this situation is that, like Ravi, I'm not going to blame the player for taking a shot at the NFL. If that's where his mind is, so be it, because I don't want him in Argo camp if his head isn't going to be in the game because he feels he's in the lesser of the two leagues. One thing that a scouting department in the CFL has to be really careful about is situations like this. How does this prospect view the CFL?

The CFL draft really is unlike any other because of such peculiarities. IIRC, Reinders wasn't necessarily that high on anyone's radar two years ago until he blew everyone away with his testing numbers at the CFL combine (those results are shared with the NFL). Once that happened, he suddenly became a blue-chip prospect and he set his sights firmly on the NFL. I was particularly surprised that he didn't sign with the Argos this past season but the Giants must have told them when they worked him out in September that they might bring him to camp this year and he decided to wait around, especially as he would not have qualified to escape the CFL under the old option year rule. I know that David Naylor firmly believes that the removal of the option year rule hurts the CFL more than it helps it - I disagree - but this is one case where it may have had an effect.

RoRoYoBoat

03-15-2012, 09:27 AM

Reinders whould not have played in the CFL anyway. He's a good two years away from being able to line up. I think the NFL is better equiped to develop a player on the practice roster than the CFL is. Staff is there year round for them, there is no 4.5 hour practice limitations. And he can get paid to develop like he would as an established starter in the CFL.

The last two drafts due to circumstances. Barker went into the draft with very poor intelligence on the players available. Or he chose to gamble. It may work n Tyler Holmes case. Now that the Argos have a proper structure for football operations. I would expect improvements in scouting, drafting and assessing talent.

gilthethrill

03-15-2012, 10:39 AM

Reinders has wasted time by not developing his skills. How does he expect to improve by taking out work ads in Kijiji? He must be getting bad advice from behind the scenes. Good luck to him in NYG camp. I agree with RoRoYoBoat, Reinders would not have played with the Argos anyway, other than on the PR. I would wager we have better o-lineman ahead of him anyway at this point in his young career.

1argoholic

03-15-2012, 11:45 AM

I'm just sick of rehashing all of these names that will NEVER suit up in double blue. I want to look forward to this years draft.

ust watched that little vid on the 100th Grey Cup site and got jacked for Grey Cup. I really wish we'd have a team to take a good run but looking at our roster as it sits now I don't see it. I'm just going to take the year for what it is and look forward to returning home for Grey Cup 100 right after my 50th. I need something positive because as I've mentioned I HATE living here.

bluto

03-15-2012, 03:34 PM

The CFL draft really is unlike any other because of such peculiarities. IIRC, Reinders wasn't necessarily that high on anyone's radar two years ago until he blew everyone away with his testing numbers at the CFL combine (those results are shared with the NFL). Once that happened, he suddenly became a blue-chip prospect and he set his sights firmly on the NFL. I was particularly surprised that he didn't sign with the Argos this past season but the Giants must have told them when they worked him out in September that they might bring him to camp this year and he decided to wait around, especially as he would not have qualified to escape the CFL under the old option year rule. I know that David Naylor firmly believes that the removal of the option year rule hurts the CFL more than it helps it - I disagree - but this is one case where it may have had an effect.

dunno about that Ravi. 18 reps isn't a number to write home about for an OL.

ArgoRavi

03-15-2012, 03:43 PM

dunno about that Ravi. 18 reps isn't a number to write home about for an OL.

All I can remember is that he seemed to become a first-round prospect after that combine. Maybe he did particularly well on the one-on-ones then? I recall that the reason why he slipped down to the third round was because he had already signed in the NFL.

gilthethrill

03-15-2012, 06:38 PM

Michael Turner out of Bishops blew alot of people away with his testing numbers too. Even got a tryout with the Bears. Will he even be in a CFL camp this year?

paulwoods13

03-15-2012, 07:21 PM

ArgoRavi

03-15-2012, 07:26 PM

Reinders went in fourth round, same round Argos drafted Steven Turner. He was another project whom we fans got prematurely excited about. I'm guessing his CFL "career" is over but if he is healthy I'd like to see him take one more shot at making the Argos. My recollection is that before he blew out his Achilles in 2010 camp, he could not catch passes, a bit of a career-limiting impedance.

I believe that Steven Turner was on Calgary's PR for a brief time last year but then ended up playing his final year of eligibility at Bishop's. His speed is certainly tantalizing if he can catch the ball. Thanks for the correction on Reinders being a fourth round pick. Nobody really knows whether he can be a pro football player with only eight CIS games and a couple of NFL preseason games under his belt from two years ago but I am guessing that the Giants like his physical characteristics at least and think that they could do something with them. It will be interesting to see if he ever amounts to anything.

argolio

03-16-2012, 12:14 AM

Agreed.
When he comes back, ignore him.What if he comes back and turns into an all-star?

RoRoYoBoat

03-16-2012, 10:43 AM

You can't hold grudges like that. We are a small but proud group. Lets not turn into a bitter fan base. It is easy to be lured by the glitz of the NFL. Most of us would do the same. These guys have a small window and these opportunities are extremely rare.

Area 51

03-17-2012, 03:05 AM

I don't know when this guy is going to grow up with a professional attitude and realize that the NFL is an elusive dream at best. He needs to come into Argos training camp and compete for a spot here to get his pro career going.

Surprisingly, it was actually GOOD advice from his advisors to sit out and not play football.

Reinders has no talent. He'd get his lunch eaten just the same in the CFL as he will in the NFL. His only hope at making money in football is to have an NFL team think they can take him on as a project to turn chicken sh!t into chicken salad and sign him to the PR for a year or so. Reinders would collect a couple hundred thousand on the PR before everyone acknowledges he's a waste of time and cuts him. Doesn't do any good for him to take a PR spot in the CFL - - the pay is garbage $500/wk. More importantly, Reinders would NEVER have a chance at an NFL tryout once teams saw him getting destroyed by second stringers in the CFL.

So Reinders could sit on the couch with his YouTube clip, claiming to be an NFL prospect and not get exposed as a turnstile by CFL rush ends. Just the same way that I could make a YouTube clip hitting the punching bag and claim to be a heavyweight boxing contender because I was never knocked out by Mike Tyson.