What does Mike Hagen actually do with the Argos?

[eiben35]

Can somebody please tell me what Mike Hagen does with the Argos and has he ever brought in any players that have stuck?:)

[Area 51]

Not sure if somebody pushed for him to be hired or if he just entered an online contest to win the job, but Hagen was somehow appointed as the Director of Player Personnel in 2010 despite having zero CFL experience.

As for his success rate, if Hagen wants one of his guys to make the team you can be certain that the guy will stick. Doesn't matter if he's clearly inferior and gets outplayed for the job or if he has substance abuse problems. If you're a Hagen guy, you're golden.

Just out of couriousity Eiben35, are you the actual Argo LB or just a big fan of Kevin? If it's the former, then I'm sure you understand the authority Hagen has over the team - - misguided as it may be.

[1argoholic]

Think Kevin would actually post that. Hagen seems useless to me.

[paulwoods13]

if Hagen wants one of his guys to make the team you can be certain that the guy will stick. Doesn't matter if he's clearly inferior and gets outplayed for the job or if he has substance abuse problems. If you're a Hagen guy, you're golden.

And the evidence for this is . . . ?

[Will]

Not sure if somebody pushed for him to be hired or if he just entered an online contest to win the job, but Hagen was somehow appointed as the Director of Player Personnel in 2010 despite having zero CFL experience.

As for his success rate, if Hagen wants one of his guys to make the team you can be certain that the guy will stick. Doesn't matter if he's clearly inferior and gets outplayed for the job or if he has substance abuse problems. If you're a Hagen guy, you're golden.

Just out of couriousity Eiben35, are you the actual Argo LB or just a big fan of Kevin? If it's the former, then I'm sure you understand the authority Hagen has over the team - - misguided as it may be.

Do you know how much authority he has over the team?

[Area 51]

And the evidence for this is . . . ?



Hagen is not a CFL guy. He has no previous experience with the Canadian game.

So considering he spent his entire career in the NFL, you can probably realize the majority of his recruiting has come through contacts for NFL castoffs rather than guys he's watched come up through the CIS and develop with other CFL teams. So let's connect the dots to try and figure this one out...

Did Keven Eiben really deserve to lose his job coming off an all star season as the Argos top Canadian? And don't tell me Eiben was only benched because the team got off to a slow start - - this was in the works from training camp. Kuale, an ex-NFL guy, was being pushed as a starter even before the season began.

http://www.canadianfootballtalk.com/cfl-news/all-star-kevin-eiben-battling-to-remain-a-starter/

The writing was on the wall but when Pottinger got hurt, it gave them an easy out to give EJ a starting job. Started off like a house on fire, but after getting ejected against Winnipeg he was invisible. But still kept his starting spot. So then it was Cannon, another former NFLer, who took over for Eiben.

After watching Sean Smalls, another former NFL hopeful, get torched repeatedly did it not make sense to at least give Matt Black a chance at CB?

And what about the Claude Wroten fiasco? You know, the guy who threw away his NFL career because he couldn't pass a drug test. Misses pretty much all of training camp because he can't cross the border and then gets handed a starting job immediately. Really? Based on what? Did he have a great flight in? Did he look really good in his new Argo jersey? Spends the year freelancing at DT and completely ignoring his gap responsibilities but still keeps his job...come on, who had this guy's back?

New guy takes over the personnel decisions...maybe there's a chance he figures he's been an NFL man for 25yrs and knows everything there is to know about football...or maybe he figures shit, if all my recruits end up getting cut that's not going to make me look very smart so we need to make sure they all get starting jobs.

No, wait a minute - - that's completely preposterous. A total conspiracy theory. Impossible, a head football guy more paranoid about saving face and keeping his job instead of making the team better? Would never happen, just ask the Kansas City Chiefs.

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/01/14/3371495/arrowhead-anxiety-turnover-off.html

[Will]

Hagen is not a CFL guy. He has no previous experience with the Canadian game.

So considering he spent his entire career in the NFL, you can probably realize the majority of his recruiting has come through contacts for NFL castoffs rather than guys he's watched come up through the CIS and develop with other CFL teams. So let's connect the dots to try and figure this one out...

Did Keven Eiben really deserve to lose his job coming off an all star season as the Argos top Canadian? And don't tell me Eiben was only benched because the team got off to a slow start - - this was in the works from training camp. Kuale, an ex-NFL guy, was being pushed as a starter even before the season began.

http://www.canadianfootballtalk.com/cfl-news/all-star-kevin-eiben-battling-to-remain-a-starter/

The writing was on the wall but when Pottinger got hurt, it gave them an easy out to give EJ a starting job. Started off like a house on fire, but after getting ejected against Winnipeg he was invisible. But still kept his starting spot. So then it was Cannon, another former NFLer, who took over for Eiben.

After watching Sean Smalls, another former NFL hopeful, get torched repeatedly did it not make sense to at least give Matt Black a chance at CB?

And what about the Claude Wroten fiasco? You know, the guy who threw away his NFL career because he couldn't pass a drug test. Misses pretty much all of training camp because he can't cross the border and then gets handed a starting job immediately. Really? Based on what? Did he have a great flight in? Did he look really good in his new Argo jersey? Spends the year freelancing at DT and completely ignoring his gap responsibilities but still keeps his job...come on, who had this guy's back?

New guy takes over the personnel decisions...maybe there's a chance he figures he's been an NFL man for 25yrs and knows everything there is to know about football...or maybe he figures shit, if all my recruits end up getting cut that's not going to make me look very smart so we need to make sure they all get starting jobs.

No, wait a minute - - that's completely preposterous. A total conspiracy theory. Impossible, a head football guy more paranoid about saving face and keeping his job instead of making the team better? Would never happen, just ask the Kansas City Chiefs.

http://www.kansascity.com/2012/01/14/3371495/arrowhead-anxiety-turnover-off.html

Were all of these guys brought in by Hagen?

[paulwoods13]

Were all of these guys brought in by Hagen?

Unless Area51 is inside the team, I don't believe he can answer even that question, much less the question of why Hagen would have more authority than Barker -- which is what his posts in this thread imply.

[Area 51]

Unless Area51 is inside the team, I don't believe he can answer even that question, much less the question of why Hagen would have more authority than Barker -- which is what his posts in this thread imply.



The original question asked what exactly Hagen does in Toronto. His nametag reads "Director of Player Personnel. You don't have to be an "insider" to realize that would imply Hagen brings in players - - but maybe he really has nothing at all to do with personnel and it's his title is code speak for grounds keeper.

Why would Hagen have more authority than Barker? Come on, let's figure it out. This wasn't a known CFL guy that's been around the league forever like O'Billovich or Tillman. Hagen had zero CFL experience. Somebody upstairs brought him in. Could be a friend of a friend, could be a favour for somebody - - whatever the reason, Hagen has somebody within the organization that brought him to Toronto sees him as "their guy". If that person views Hagen as being preferred to Barker, guess who's wearing the pants?

Copeland & Lysak - - again, you don't have to be an "insider" to realize they're Barker's guys. Lysak hardly ever saw the field last year. The NFL guys like Smalls, Kuale & Wroten were mainstays. I'm not sure why. So who's got the NFL connections - - Barker or Hagen?

But don't take my word for it - - let's ask the "insiders" that frequent this forum. We know at least two players post on this site, possibly more if potts46 and eiben35 are who their handles would suggest. Eiben35, regardless of who you might be, what's your take on Hagen - - is he as useless as pockets in underwear? If you'd rather not say anything, no worries - - sometimes silence can speak volumes.

[ArgoRavi]

Barker is the one who brought Hagen in.

[Argocister]

Area51s comments do place an intriguing spin on the operations of the team ..... yet.... even though I have very limited knowledge on the operations of a football team, ( only that which I have learned on various football forums or team sites), as an Argo fan I would expect the team to hire someone with extensive knowledge and contacts within the NFL to identify the types of players that could contribute to the team. So when Barker says we need a DT , then someone, in this case Hagan?, would identify an NFL castoff to contribute to the team. If Hagan was the primary recruiter in the past few years, then I would expect those players to contribute on the field.

Perhaps now that Barker has only the GM position, the "conspiracy" slant will change. It has been reported that he is out searching for new talent for the team. Lets face it, the import players the CFL teams recruit will be good players that have missed their chance at a roster spot in the NFL. So if you want to call it castoff... so be it.

The Argos do employ a Canadian recruiter.... Ted Goevia. He should , and does have extensive contacts and experience in the CIS environment. I would not expect him to bring in many NFL players. Just as I would not expect Hagan to bring in CIS players.
Would I like to see more Canadians and more CIS players on the team? ... Sure would, especially since the Argos and the CIS teams provide me with my football fix.
Now.... the question still remains.... has Hagan brought in anyone that has stuck? Did he identify Boyd? I know Owens came from the Alouettes.

[Area 51]

Boyd was signed before Hagen showed up.

Having a recruiter/evaluator for the NFL/NCAA and another recruiter/evaluator for the CIS is not an issue. The problem is when the NFL/NCAA recruits starting taking "priority".

Ricky Foley was the Argos' top Canadian this year, not an all star but pretty close to it. Imagine if Toronto decided during training camp they were going to replace Foley with Alex Buzbee. Would that make any sense?

Kevin Eiben was the Argos' top Canadian in 2010 as well as an all star. Where was the logic in looking to replace him in training camp this year and then eventually benching him after a few games for Cannon?

I'd really like to know WTF Wroten did to "earn" his starting job the minute he arrived in Toronto. Especially with his history. Should have been in on a tryout basis. Keep his wheels on the track and then he could make the roster. Keep up the good work and then he could earn a starting job. If that doesn't show you where the "priorities" are I don't know what more evidence you need.

You can't build a team by handing out free passes to certain guys and then snubbing others that have earned their spot.

[paulwoods13]

The original question asked what exactly Hagen does in Toronto. His nametag reads "Director of Player Personnel. You don't have to be an "insider" to realize that would imply Hagen brings in players - - but maybe he really has nothing at all to do with personnel and it's his title is code speak for grounds keeper.

Why would Hagen have more authority than Barker? Come on, let's figure it out. This wasn't a known CFL guy that's been around the league forever like O'Billovich or Tillman. Hagen had zero CFL experience. Somebody upstairs brought him in. Could be a friend of a friend, could be a favour for somebody - - whatever the reason, Hagen has somebody within the organization that brought him to Toronto sees him as "their guy". If that person views Hagen as being preferred to Barker, guess who's wearing the pants?

Copeland & Lysak - - again, you don't have to be an "insider" to realize they're Barker's guys. Lysak hardly ever saw the field last year. The NFL guys like Smalls, Kuale & Wroten were mainstays. I'm not sure why. So who's got the NFL connections - - Barker or Hagen?

But don't take my word for it - - let's ask the "insiders" that frequent this forum. We know at least two players post on this site, possibly more if potts46 and eiben35 are who their handles would suggest. Eiben35, regardless of who you might be, what's your take on Hagen - - is he as useless as pockets in underwear? If you'd rather not say anything, no worries - - sometimes silence can speak volumes.

That's all nice but it is also all pure speculation. "Someone upstairs?" Nicholson? Braley? Pinball?

You seem to believe that only one guy is responsible for every import who is brought in. I don't believe it works that way. And even if Hagen was solely responsible for every player who was recruited last season, that does not explain why he apparently was also given the authority to make decisions about how players were deployed. You are suggesting that he, and not the head coach/GM, decided who dressed and got on the field in games. I'm not buying that.

Basing the theory in part on Wes Lysack's lack of playing time is really a stretch, IMO. Lysack hadn't started in years before coming to Toronto. And when he did get in on defence, he looked hopelessly overmatched. (And please don't use that as an invitation to lecture us all again on how bad the match coverage scheme was. We know your feelings on that.) And on the other side of that coin, there is no doubt Copeland is a Barker "guy," yet he dressed and started all season despite being clearly well past his prime. Why didn't Hagen use his alleged authority to force Copeland to the sidelines and Boldin on to the roster?

[bluto]

is it just me, or is this thread getting a bit into the "second gunman on the grassy knoll" territory?

the man scouts and evaluates talent. i don't know how you read that as having more authority than Barker. he's a veteran football operations guy and deserves the title.

this seems to bug you... my question is, "why should it?"