Percent chance we take an OL in the first round?

[KCargosfan]

I'm saying 80 percent or higher.

[Nob]

I'll take the "Over" on that line.

[OV Argo]

Who would that be then? - i'll bet Sewell is gone early; maybe steal one of the NCAA Juniors (Craighead or MacMilllan) before Ottawa can take one of them? Jones or Watman would be better picks IMO - hope they can come in and make the roster right away - even as possible starters at OG.

Barker and drafting ... ???

[1argoholic]

I won't even attempt to suggest who Barker should or will take. Perhaps we should look at low division US college rosters to see if there are any Canadians.

I guess we won't know until after the NFL draft if Toney-Toney the player so nice they named him the same thing twice shows up at camp. Also Iowa St D lineman guy who's name I forgot.

[Argo57]

Iowa D Lineman is Cleyon Laing.
Argonauts need to start drafting guys that will actually show up at training camp instead of drafting home run talent that ends up down south. (Tyler Holmes, Cory Greenwood).

[KCargosfan]

Iowa D Lineman is Cleyon Laing.
Argonauts need to start drafting guys that will actually show up at training camp instead of drafting home run talent that ends up down south. (Tyler Holmes, Cory Greenwood).

I wouldn't call Holmes a "home run talent that ends up down south" considering he hasn't made an NFL roster.

[ArgoRavi]

Is Greenwood still with the Chiefs, KCargosfan? He must at least be on the bubble at this point.

[Wobbler]

Considering that the Vikings released Holmes from their PR three times last year, I'd say that his job is very far from secure. If they draft more than one OL next week it would be hard to imagine him being retained.

[doubleblue]

I can see Barker taking an O-Lineman if he thinks that is the best player available, but this draft is heavy for D-Linemen. The kid from McMaster would be a good replacement for Foley at DE and he might be available at #8. Junior OT Nolan McMillan has moved up the chart and he could be of interest as a future, if the Argos don't see anyone they like well enough who can come out this year.
I didn't see anybody, beside Sewell, who is better than what they already have on the O-Line.

But the CFL picks over the years still continue to amaze me, so nothing would surprise me. Some teams really go off the charts and pick players nobody else would. Most of the time "nobody else" was right, but that doesn't seem to matter to the evaluators. They want to find that diamond in the rough.

[ArgoGabe22]

I think a better question is what is the percent chance we take an NCAA player over a CIS based one?

[Rids]

Is Greenwood still with the Chiefs, KCargosfan? He must at least be on the bubble at this point.

I believe that he signed with the Giants this past off season.

Lots of things to change between now and May 6th but at this point I'd think the chances are maybe higher than the Argos take a DL rather than an OL.

************

Nope I had it wrong. Here he is still in Chiefs colors - http://www.nfl.com/player/corygreenwood/2508039/profile

[doubleblue]

I believe that he signed with the Giants this past off season.

Lots of things to change between now and May 6th but at this point I'd think the chances are maybe higher than the Argos take a DL rather than an OL.

************

Nope I had it wrong. Here he is still in Chiefs colors - http://www.nfl.com/player/corygreenwood/2508039/profile

Cory should have made around a million or more by now with his three years down south. I believe he would be in for a good sized raise this year because of his seniority. This is when (the fourth year) NFL teams cuts the vet and brings in a rookie to do ST's and backup duty to save cap space. So this may be a pivotal year for him and the Argos. If he stays in KC this year and beyond, his Argo career might never happen as he will be pretty well set money wise. If he gets cut he could still have a good CFL career, similar to Mike O'Shea. Depending though how much he wants to play Football I guess.

[Argo57]

Lets hope (from a selfish) Argo standpoint that Greenwood does get cut and makes his way to T.O.
Would be a huge boost for us!
I think they need to go D-line after the off season losses we have had in that area.
Doubleblue is correct, one G.M will make an off the wall pick and someone may be available that no expected!!
We'll see

[argolio]

Doubleblue is correct, one G.M will make an off the wall pick and someone may be available that no expected!!
We'll seeNothing wrong with a little spice instead of every team conforming to some cookie-cutter draft list put out by the old boys club.

[KCargosfan]

Is Greenwood still with the Chiefs, KCargosfan? He must at least be on the bubble at this point.

He's been on the bubble since he made the squad as he's purely been a ST guy or played in garbage time. Yes, he's still with us, but this training camp will be interesting as all the coaches and front office people that brought him in are gone.

[OV Argo]

He's been on the bubble since he made the squad as he's purely been a ST guy or played in garbage time. Yes, he's still with us, but this training camp will be interesting as all the coaches and front office people that brought him in are gone.

Even if Greenwood gets cut by the new KC regime, I'd bet he gets some sort of NFL interest elsewhere - even bouncing around various NFL try-outs, rather than being keen to report to the Argos ? OTOH - if the Argos really value him, they could offer a more than decent CFL signing bonus and initial contract and tell him we want you to come in and compete for the starting MLB job (as opposed to a CFL minimum wage offer and a shot to maybe play some speical teams). Not sure which way Argos' "thinkers" would be approaching the situation. Same deal for Tyler Holmes. Would the Argos really go after such supposed top prospects - or treat them as good ole "NI depth" rather than potential impact starters?

Why have Laing or Tonye-Tonye not yet been signed? - holding out for some sort of NFL shot?

[ArgoRavi]

Even if Greenwood gets cut by the new KC regime, I'd bet he gets some sort of NFL interest elsewhere - even bouncing around various NFL try-outs, rather than being keen to report to the Argos ? OTOH - if the Argos really value him, they could offer a more than decent CFL signing bonus and initial contract and tell him we want you to come in and compete for the starting MLB job (as opposed to a CFL minimum wage offer and a shot to maybe play some speical teams). Not sure which way Argos' "thinkers" would be approaching the situation. Same deal for Tyler Holmes. Would the Argos really go after such supposed top prospects - or treat them as good ole "NI depth" rather than potential impact starters?

Why have Laing or Tonye-Tonye not yet been signed? - holding out for some sort of NFL shot?

Neither Greenwood nor Holmes are likely to get cut until CFL midseason at the earliest so that pretty much eliminates them from competing for a starting job with the Argos this season. Laing and Tonye-Tonye are almost certainly waiting until after the NFL draft to even think of signing with the Argos.

[paulwoods13]

OTOH - if the Argos really value him, they could offer a more than decent CFL signing bonus and initial contract and tell him we want you to come in and compete for the starting MLB job (as opposed to a CFL minimum wage offer and a shot to maybe play some speical teams). Not sure which way Argos' "thinkers" would be approaching the situation.

I guess they'd approach it the way they approach every decision to offer a contract -- how does it fit under the cap? The big diff between this and the O'Shea situation in 1996 (assuming Greenwood becomes available) is that now there is a salary cap to contend with.

I definitely want Greenwood if he becomes an NFL FA, and I believe he is capable of starting at MLB once he gets reacclimated to Cdn football, but I don't think it's too likely that the Argos will hold back sizeable signing bonus money until Labour Day just in case. And not sure I'd want them to if it meant not signing some other deals that could help the team in the meantime.

[OV Argo]

Neither Greenwood nor Holmes are likely to get cut until CFL midseason at the earliest so that pretty much eliminates them from competing for a starting job with the Argos this season. Laing and Tonye-Tonye are almost certainly waiting until after the NFL draft to even think of signing with the Argos.


Hmm; didn't Tony Washington come to the Argos mid-season and get to "compete" for a starting job?

I don't belive either of Laing or Tonye-Tonye are anywhere close to on NFL radar as good draft prospects at their positions; but they may be hoping for FA try-outs.

[bluto]

i've very high hopes for Reinders this season. if Holmes' NFL dream finally times out this year and he comes to Toronto... and if Greenwood gets priced out of a job (being a 3 year vet) and decides to play in Canada... the last few years of drafting for us will be looked at through a totally different perspective.

i don't want to get my hopes up on Greenwood, but my gut says that if Holmes was going to catch on somewhere down south , he'd have already done so.

the new TV deal (after the CFLPA negotiates a new revenue share) will see NI players making or exceeding $200k... maybe one or two per team. hopefully this can provide enough of a lure to stop a guy like Holmes from taking all of the time that he would be completing his first contract up here (and would be looking at his first big payday as a FA) and being a final cut in an NFL camp.

[KCargosfan]

Hmm; didn't Tony Washington come to the Argos mid-season and get to "compete" for a starting job?


OVA, can you offer up your football thoughts on subjects instead of continually pounding the same themes over... and over... and over again.

We know you don't like the current import/non-import ratio, how some players are "penciled-in" to positions, how the "good ole boys" of the CFL run things, think that CIS players don't get the respect/opportunity they should, think teams don't run the ball enough, don't like most of the media who comment on the CFL, in general think Canadians get screwed by the "radically" Canadian Football League, etc.

I think most board members would appreciate your football-related thoughts/knowledge instead of continuing to harp on these themes as no one on this board has the power to make changes to the league or to how general managers or coaches think/operate.

[OV Argo]

OVA, can you offer up your football thoughts on subjects instead of continually pounding the same themes over... and over... and over again.

We know you don't like the current import/non-import ratio, how some players are "penciled-in" to positions, how the "good ole boys" of the CFL run things, think that CIS players don't get the respect/opportunity they should, think teams don't run the ball enough, don't like most of the media who comment on the CFL, in general think Canadians get screwed by the "radically" Canadian Football League, etc.

I think most board members would appreciate your football-related thoughts/knowledge instead of continuing to harp on these themes as no one on this board has the power to make changes to the league or to how general managers or coaches think/operate.

Very nice of you to speak for me; thanks a bunch.

But why can't you address the issue/topic: Tony Washington came in mid-season last year and got to start for the Argos; yet Ravi seems to think that is out of the question for Greenwood or Holmes (players with arguably much better football resumes than Washington, plus both players who have grown up playing the Canadian game) - so, why would Ravi think that or be right in thinking that? Please discuss with some actual football observations. And i didn't mention any of those players birh certificates in the post you are quoting, nor mention good ole boys or prejudice or anything like that - so why are you going there? - can't deal with the specific topic?

If you want to be our rep in KC who can dispense football wisdom from a KC perspective - that's just swell; tell us over & over again how Greenwood is a marginal Chiefs or NFL player; I don't comment or your obvious limited CFL perspective here, I just read your posts and respond to ones that I am interested in. IF you don't like my CFL perspective - that comes from watching the league closely for somewhere around 5 decades - fair enough - but don't bother to try to speak for me please; just stick to responding with your own opinions and if you disagree with my perspectives - say why or maybe STFU; or maybe you feel a need to be the "most board members" rep to tell me what I should or shouldn't comment on here? - not sure where you would get off taking on that role though?

[argolio]

Tony Washington came in mid-season last year and got to start for the ArgosFor the record he was signed July 4 and got his first start August 18 at Calgary.

[ArgoRavi]

Very nice of you to speak for me; thanks a bunch.

But why can't you address the issue/topic: Tony Washington came in mid-season last year and got to start for the Argos; yet Ravi seems to think that is out of the question for Greenwood or Holmes (players with arguably much better football resumes than Washington, plus both players who have grown up playing the Canadian game) - so, why would Ravi think that or be right in thinking that?

As Argolio mentions, Washington was in camp from early in the season as he was signed shortly after the first game of the season. It took him a month and a half to get into the starting lineup. If Greenwood or Holmes go to an NFL camp this year, they probably won't be available to the Argos until mid-September and neither has any CFL experience, unlike Washington. Realistically, it is difficult to see either of them starting before the end of the 2013 season if they don't arrive until mid-September. There also has to be a need for them to start. If the Argos don't have issues at their positions, there really won't be much need for them to be starting come late October.

Washington btw has a very good football resume. He was projected by many experts to be a second round pick in the NFL but was not chosen because teams did not want to deal with the bad press of having a registered sex offender on their team (and it is a whole other story why he even has that designation in the first place).

[paulwoods13]

As Argolio mentions, Washington was in camp from early in the season as he was signed shortly after the first game of the season. It took him a month and a half to get into the starting lineup. If Greenwood or Holmes go to an NFL camp this year, they probably won't be available to the Argos until mid-September and neither has any CFL experience, unlike Washington. Realistically, it is difficult to see either of them starting before the end of the 2013 season if they don't arrive until mid-September. There also has to be a need for them to start. If the Argos don't have issues at their positions, there really won't be much need for them to be starting come late October.

Bang on, Ravi. The position Washington ended up winning was causing all kinds of problems last season. The only reason it took him six weeks to get in there was they had to adjust the ratio deployment to absorb a starting import on the o-line. If Greenwood were to arrive after Labour Day and the Argos were having trouble at MLB (something that did not happen last season, despite at least one opinion to the contrary), I have no doubt he'd have a shot at taking the spot before the season ended. But if things were going well there, why would he suddenly be inserted into the starting lineup?

[OV Argo]

As Argolio mentions, Washington was in camp from early in the season as he was signed shortly after the first game of the season. It took him a month and a half to get into the starting lineup. If Greenwood or Holmes go to an NFL camp this year, they probably won't be available to the Argos until mid-September and neither has any CFL experience, unlike Washington. Realistically, it is difficult to see either of them starting before the end of the 2013 season if they don't arrive until mid-September. There also has to be a need for them to start. If the Argos don't have issues at their positions, there really won't be much need for them to be starting come late October.

Washington btw has a very good football resume. He was projected by many experts to be a second round pick in the NFL but was not chosen because teams did not want to deal with the bad press of having a registered sex offender on their team (and it is a whole other story why he even has that designation in the first place).

- Washington was not at Argo TC to "compete" for a starting job; he did not make the Stamp line-up as a starting OT

- the Argos were 3 & 3 at Aug. 18; i believe they finished the regular season with a .500 record

- a guy by the name of Chad Kackert became a regular in the Argos offence by sometime in August (Boyd released) ?; the Argo offence improved as the season went on - particularly IMO during the last few weeks and in the play-off run

- i have a feeling that some football coaches might think that if Washington could make the Argos as a starting OT, after getting cut by another CFL team and missing Argo TC to "compete" and with very limited CFL/Canadian football experience, then that perhaps Tyler Holmes - Div. I starter, made an NFL roster, grew up playing Canadian football - just might be a decent candidate to win an Argo starting OT spot as well; and if he is signed shortly before or after Labour Day, that would give him 8 to 10 games or so to "compete" and learn the offence or get worked in gradually even.

[Wobbler]

Considering that the Vikings released Holmes from their PR three times last year, I'd say that his job is very far from secure. If they draft more than one OL next week it would be hard to imagine him being retained.
The Vikings drafted two guards yesterday, and I think it is unlikely that Holmes will stick with the team this year.

[KCargosfan]

The Vikings drafted two guards yesterday, and I think it is unlikely that Holmes will stick with the team this year.

Will be interesting to see come late August/early September. If he is one of the first cuts, we could see him in double blue by week 9.

[D-Gap-Willie]

To get back to the original question, I concur that there is a 90% chance the Argos will draft an OL in the first roind if Sewell or Watman are available. The draft class is much deeper in DL's but the quality is no better at the top end. If Brett Jones is still available, I think the chances are 50-50 on them taking him, depending if a better quality DL is still available. I have not mentioned Nolan MacMillan because I am hoping the Argos don't go for more futures. MacMillan is a very good talent but quite injury prone - if he stays healthy, he will be NFL bound - if he continues getting injured, he will be available to the CFL. That'a not much of a choice !

[OV Argo]

To get back to the original question, I concur that there is a 90% chance the Argos will draft an OL in the first roind if Sewell or Watman are available. The draft class is much deeper in DL's but the quality is no better at the top end. If Brett Jones is still available, I think the chances are 50-50 on them taking him, depending if a better quality DL is still available. I have not mentioned Nolan MacMillan because I am hoping the Argos don't go for more futures. MacMillan is a very good talent but quite injury prone - if he stays healthy, he will be NFL bound - if he continues getting injured, he will be available to the CFL. That'a not much of a choice !


The O-Lineman you mention would all be solid picks IMO; but who really knows with CFL "draft thinking" ? Seems to me D-Line is a glaring Argo need, and this is maybe one of the best CFL draft crops at D-Line (both DEs and DTs) in years or maybe ever IMO. Top rated guys there like Charles, Gaydosh or D'Aguilar may already be gone by the time the Argos pick (plus are NFL flight risks), but there are a number of other very promising D-Lineman (including NCAA Juniors - Shahin & Urban - might show up next year but both also possible NFL flight risks).

D-Line makes sense, O-Line too, but nothing would suprise me, including Barker going with a reach / futures type pick - Cleon Laing was basically that at 9th overall last year, IMO.

Mike Edem - fast/athletic productive CIS D player - and a possible CFL starting OLB or safety - might be a good pick if he is still around when the Argos first pick.

[Argocister]

An OL is very likely... if not in the first round definitely after.
It was interesting to read this article of Doug Brown.s... following along the same lines that Barker likes... the best athlete at the time... and let others develop your pick and just hope you get them back.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/opinion/columnists/blue-should-roll-dice-take-top-available-talent-205352361.html

riderprophet votes for an Argo OL pick in the first round too

http://www.riderprophet.com/