Greatest Argonauts that got away

[Argo57]

Through the decades the Argonauts have traded away or released some players that went to other teams and had good and in some cases Hall of Fame careers. This is not to say that the trades made were bad at the time, one example I can think of is Willi Pless. From the first pre-season game in 1986 with Toronto you could see he was a very special linebacker, the Argonauts traded a package of players including Jearld Baylis to B.C. for Matt Dunigan. Pless ended up playing the majority of his career in Edmonton and is a CFL Hall of Fame member.

[OV Argo]

Through the decades the Argonauts have traded away or released some players that went to other teams and had good and in some cases Hall of Fame careers. This is not to say that the trades made were bad at the time, one example I can think of is Willi Pless. From the first pre-season game in 1986 with Toronto you could see he was a very special linebacker, the Argonauts traded a package of players including Jearld Baylis to B.C. for Matt Dunigan. Pless ended up playing the majority of his career in Edmonton and is a CFL Hall of Fame member.

Agreed on Pless - and he was already an established league best type linebacker when he was included in that package for Dunigan; he should have been an untouchable IMO and they could have insisted he would not be part of the deal - I'd guess the Lions would have accepted another good Argo player or two or a draft pick.

Another one IMO - Jock Climie - 1st rounder/4th overall and then gets cut after playing a couple of games for the Argos = ??? dumb-@$$; picked up by Ottawa and later emerges as a very good receiver for the Als and a pretty long, productive career.

[Argo57]

Even though Dunigan did what he did in 91 every time I saw Pless play I always wondered what could have been with the Double Blue!!
Sadly I also had to mothball my Pless jersey!!

[paulwoods13]

I would never criticize the Pless-Dunigan deal because it brought us a Grey Cup, but hated to lose Pless who was definitely an all-timer. I imagine he was the key to the deal from B.C.'s standpoint so I don't know that the Argos could have simply said No and still got Dunigan. It's nice to think so, but there are two parties to every transaction, and both have to feel satisfied with what they are getting for the deal to go through.

A similar loss was Danny Bass, traded in his second season (1981) to Calgary for Reggie Lewis, who left after that season for the NFL. That one galls a lot more than Pless because we essentially got nothing back for a future Hall of Famer.

Also hated to see a succession of good NI talent cast off in the late 1970s, in particular Neil Lumsden, Mark Bragagnolo and (the one that really stings) Paul Bennett.

More recently, Angus Reid. I think he was let go in favour of Chad Folk, who had been a great centre but was near the end of his career. I also wish the Argos hadn't let Jeremy O'Day go but I believe he left as a free agent and there may have been nothing they could do to keep him.

[Argo57]

Bass and Bennett for sure!!!
Even as a diehard Argonauts fan I always admired and cheered for Edmonton in the playoffs in the 1970's and early 80's before the Argo rebound in 1982, a huge part of the Eskimos dynasty was QB Tom Wilkinson who was cast aside in T.O in 67 or 68 and I believe the first Edmonton player honoured on their Ring of Honour at Commonwealth Stadium.

Another guy who was purged from Toronto at a similar time as the players Paul mentioned was Nick Bastaja who worked himself into a perennial all-star as part of a great offensive line with the Winnipeg Blue Bombers.

[ArgoRavi]

Bastaja was part of a trade with Winnipeg IIRC. Wasn't it Bastaja and Ecomet Burley to Winnipeg for Leon Lyskiewiecz and another player whose name escapes me? Anyway, unless that second player was something special, the Bombers definitely won that deal with Bastaja being such a good lineman for so long. I agree with Paul about the Bass for Lewis trade being simply awful and the losses of Lumsden, Bragagnolo and Bennett stung for years. It wasn't until Willie Wood became head coach, as Paul writes about in his upcoming book, that the Argos actually started stockpiling Canadian players and draft picks which would ultimately help lead the team to their first Grey Cup win in 31 years.

Angus Reid was taken from the Argo practice roster by Jim Popp who later traded him to B.C. for Adriano Belli. It was considered at the time of the Popp plucking of Reid that GM Paul Masotti's inexperience is what resulted in the loss of Reid. Jeremy O'Day was indeed a free agent loss to the Riders.

[zontar]

Neil Lumsden ?

[Argo57]

Ravi
Yes that Bomber trade was Bastaja, Mark Braganolo and a 3rd round pick for Duncan McKinley, Leon Lyszkiewicz and John Malinosky. This Internet thing is great !!
Kudos Ravi for remembering as much of that trade 30+ years later as you did!

[1argoholic]

Every team could have a list like this I'm sure. Danny Bass has always been on mine. I hate when a guy has a great career and should never leave or get traded and does like Mookie or Pre. Should have both been Argos only.

Another good local player that has always bothered me that we didn't keep him was Matt Finlay. He's my age and I used to watch him play for Lorne Park against my school Cawthra Park. We were always getting killed by them but he was great. Got drafted by Montreal who folded and the Argos picked him up in the dispersal draft. He played one or two games and we traded him to Calgary where he played a solid eight or so years.

[Argo57]

Going way out on the limb here but my guess is Edmonton fans are already talking about our QB in this regard, hopefully a few more successful seasons for Mr Ray in T.O. will rub salt in their wounds.
Thanks Mr Tillman!!!!

[OV Argo]

Neil Lumsden ?


Lumsden was an Argos territorial exemption (= first round pick back in those days); was runner-up for CFL rookie of the year, and had close to 700 rushing yards for the Argos in his 2nd season; but got traded to the Ticats for punter Ken Clark and good old "future considerations" mid 78 season. Dumb move - could have been an Argo fixture at fullback for years.

At least the Argos got 2 first rounders for Paul Bennett when they first gave him away.

I'm afraid, IMO, that the Argos recognition of and respect for Canadian talent has not been much of a strong suit in many, many seasons. Nowdays - not so sure either, but there has been some good finds - giving Andre Durie a shot as an undrafted FA worked out nice; time for the Argos to give some more NI talent shots to play on their D IMO; Foley gone now; another Corrigal, Bennett, Moen or Eiben type impact player would be great to see - not that those guys are exactly easy to find though - smart drafting, including retaining lots of draft picks, can help; they could also go after top NI free agents. More imports in the CFL now than ever before, and them being heavily favored for playing time, does not help in the matter.

[OV Argo]

Every team could have a list like this I'm sure. Danny Bass has always been on mine. I hate when a guy has a great career and should never leave or get traded and does like Mookie or Pre. Should have both been Argos only.

Another good local player that has always bothered me that we didn't keep him was Matt Finlay. He's my age and I used to watch him play for Lorne Park against my school Cawthra Park. We were always getting killed by them but he was great. Got drafted by Montreal who folded and the Argos picked him up in the dispersal draft. He played one or two games and we traded him to Calgary where he played a solid eight or so years.

Yeah - sort of forget that Finlay was once Argo property - traded away for DB Rick Ryan; a very good and under-rated IMO, CFL LB for the Stamps for many seasons.

[ArgoRavi]

Ravi
Yes that Bomber trade was Bastaja, Mark Braganolo and a 3rd round pick for Duncan McKinley, Leon Lyszkiewicz and John Malinosky. This Internet thing is great !!
Kudos Ravi for remembering as much of that trade 30+ years later as you did!

In some ways that trade wasn't quite as bad as I first thought it was. Malinosky helped us win the Grey Cup in '83 while Lyszkiewicz was with the Argos through the '82 season. McKinley, unfortunately, did not amount to much. It is interesting that this trade involved all non-imports.

[ArgoRavi]

Every team could have a list like this I'm sure. Danny Bass has always been on mine. I hate when a guy has a great career and should never leave or get traded and does like Mookie or Pre. Should have both been Argos only.

Another good local player that has always bothered me that we didn't keep him was Matt Finlay. He's my age and I used to watch him play for Lorne Park against my school Cawthra Park. We were always getting killed by them but he was great. Got drafted by Montreal who folded and the Argos picked him up in the dispersal draft. He played one or two games and we traded him to Calgary where he played a solid eight or so years.

I believe that Obie said in an interview on the day that he retired recently that trading away Finlay is one of the moves that he regrets. I think that they liked him a lot but needed a non-import safety pretty badly (Rick Ryan). The one game that I recall Finlay playing for the Argos was a thrilling tie game in Regina early in the 1987 season.

[Nob]

I'm not sure how this one will sit amongst the crowd, but I wasn't thrilled when Bart "the genius" Andrus forced Arland Bruce out of town. In retrospect Bruce may not be the best teammate, but it took foooooorever for the Argos to get another top-flite receiver. That move set the Argos' passing game, and by extension the entire offence, back years.

I think that from the time Bruce left town until the time Ricky Ray showed up the offence was dormant. Those two moves show what one player can do in a team game. Weird.....

[argolio]

Another one IMO - Jock Climie - 1st rounder/4th overall and then gets cut after playing a couple of games for the Argos = ??? dumb-@$$; picked up by Ottawa and later emerges as a very good receiver for the Als and a pretty long, productive career.I think Climie mentioned once or twice there was a big personality conflict between him and Don Matthews. Maybe Don considered Climie to be a snot-nosed bookworm masquerading as a football player.

[ArgoRavi]

I think Climie mentioned once or twice there was a big personality conflict between him and Don Matthews. Maybe Don considered Climie to be a snot-nosed bookworm masquerading as a football player.

Climie didn't get along well with Adam Rita in Ottawa either. Climie did come back to play the '95 season with the Argos but I don't recall anything remarkable about his season although the entire team - save for Pinball - was not particularly good. Once Matthews and Rita came back in '96, Climie was left unprotected in the non-import draft to stock the reborn Alouettes and Jim Popp picked him up.

[paulwoods13]

In some ways that trade wasn't quite as bad as I first thought it was. Malinosky helped us win the Grey Cup in '83 while Lyszkiewicz was with the Argos through the '82 season. McKinley, unfortunately, did not amount to much. It is interesting that this trade involved all non-imports.

Agreed. Malinosky started for four or five seasons, including 1982 and '83, and Leon started for three years and was an important cog in the big 1982 win over Edmonton.

I mentioned earlier that I hated to lose Bennett. OV is correct, though, that the return was good as it included a territorial exemption that turned out to be Bob Bronk. Willie Wood for some reason did not like Bennett -- kind of surprising since they both were hard-hitting safeties who also returned punts.

[1argoholic]

I remember having sweet seats on the new South stands at CNE to witness Paul Bennett while waiting to return a punt have a drunk clown run on the field and Bennett drilled the guy. haha.

[OV Argo]

Rick Sowieta was a good player the Argos just cut - and who went on to have a pretty decent CFL career; like Climie, an Argo first round draft pick, that they gave up on (after 2 seasons with the Double Blue - just released in the off-season - WTF); picked up by Ottawa and had a good career with them - a very tough, solid linebacker (made East all-star in 80, 83 & 85); so - Sowieta in the 80s and Finlay in the 90s = 2 pretty good Canadian linebackers that the Argos had and gave up on and who could have been long-serving Argos (but at least the Argos had long-serving excellent NI LB Don Moen to cover a lot of that period - and we got him for free as a BC cut).

[Midnight Blue]

I'm not sure how this one will sit amongst the crowd, but I wasn't thrilled when Bart "the genius" Andrus forced Arland Bruce out of town. In retrospect Bruce may not be the best teammate, but it took foooooorever for the Argos to get another top-flite receiver. That move set the Argos' passing game, and by extension the entire offence, back years.

I think that from the time Bruce left town until the time Ricky Ray showed up the offence was dormant. Those two moves show what one player can do in a team game. Weird.....


I agree with your assessment. Arland Bruce was definitely eccentric, and he came across as a bit of a goof, but he had it going on the field, and while I don't know what happened behind closed doors with his teammates and the coach, his presence was definitely missed. Although other factors also contributed to the Argos' malaise during those years.

[paulwoods13]

(but at least the Argos had long-serving excellent NI LB Don Moen to cover a lot of that period - and we got him for free as a BC cut).

Actually it was a trade (along with Rick Mohr and Rob Smith) for future considerations - arguably the most lop-sided trade in the Argos' favour ever. Two GC champs, one all-time Argo and a guy who played many years in the league (mostly for other teams) for, essentially, nothing.

[Argo57]

Actually it was a trade (along with Rick Mohr and Rob Smith) for future considerations - arguably the most lop-sided trade in the Argos' favour ever. Two GC champs, one all-time Argo and a guy who played many years in the league (mostly for other teams) for, essentially, nothing.

You don't seem to see trades like this anymore, my guess is the scouting and player evaluation is even more thorough than in the past.
The Argonauts probably didn't know what they were getting in that trade as well.

[paulwoods13]

You don't seem to see trades like this anymore, my guess is the scouting and player evaluation is even more thorough than in the past.
The Argonauts probably didn't know what they were getting in that trade as well.

You're right in the sense that they thought in Moen they were getting a special teams guy -- they had no idea they were getting one of the greatest LBs in franchise history. I think they knew they were getting a starting DE in Mohr but probably didn't think he would turn out to be an all-star. I think they had no idea what they were getting in Smith because they let him go (for nothing, IIRC) and he ended up playing in the league for a decade.

[Argo57]

Bring on mini camp!!!
Lets see what we have this year, should be interesting.

[OV Argo]

Actually it was a trade (along with Rick Mohr and Rob Smith) for future considerations - arguably the most lop-sided trade in the Argos' favour ever. Two GC champs, one all-time Argo and a guy who played many years in the league (mostly for other teams) for, essentially, nothing.

The CFL guides i have from back around those times say the Argos got those 3 off waivers from BC - no mention of a "trade" ? - so what were the future considerations BC ended up receiving as part of that deal? Rob Smith was a pretty solid CFL O-Lineman for a number of years.

[paulwoods13]

The CFL guides i have from back around those times say the Argos got those 3 off waivers from BC - no mention of a "trade" ? - so what were the future considerations BC ended up receiving as part of that deal? Rob Smith was a pretty solid CFL O-Lineman for a number of years.

The 1982 Argo media guide says, in part, "Don Moen was acquired by the Argonauts, this year, in a trade with the B.C. Lions, that also included Rob Smith and Rick Mohr." (Someone in the Argo organization obviously loved commas.)

More to the point, Moen, Mohr and Obie all told me it was a trade.

Don Moen: "I walked in the next day after the final pre-season game, the trainer came up to me and said, 'Go see the coach.' I said, 'I guess I should take my playbook?' He said, 'It’s not that bad.' That’s when they told me I had been traded."

Rick Mohr: "I was traded at the end of training camp – Rob Smith, Don Moen and myself. It worked out really well. The three of us lived together, rented an apartment in Scarborough."

As to what the Lions got back, who knows. Maybe a neg list player who never showed up. Future considerations often amount to nothing, or at least nothing that ever becomes public.

[doubleblue]

Mervyn Fernandez came to the Lions in 1982. Maybe he had been on the Argos neg list.

[paulwoods13]

Mervyn Fernandez came to the Lions in 1982. Maybe he had been on the Argos neg list.

That's a logical guess, but I've been told something different, which I am saving for my book. So stay tuned.