Fantuz Contract

[R.J]

With FA coming up in about a week's time and according to this rodpederson.com blog (http://rodpedersen.blogspot.com/2012/02/rider-blog.html), Andy Fantuz was given a very lucrative contract offer at 200K per season which would make him the highest paid receiver in the CFL and he still declined. Now obviously Tillman will make a push for Fantuz to join the Esks, and now with Ray and Burris in Toronto and Hamilton respectively, I don't see much cap room. Having Fantuz come home, would be major news, add lots of media attention and a big name to Southern Ontario (on top of Burris and Ray), personally I'd like to see Fantuz in an Argos uniform, but not for the money he wants. The Argos obviously need help at receiver, will Barker go after the FA route or chose to bring in young guys through the draft or down South. Can't wait until FA starts even if it doesn't go the way I've hyped it up in my own head.:)

[Invader]

$200,000 is Geroy Simon or Darcy Tucker type money. Fantuz isn't in that league yet. He should be happy with $150k, then put up some comparable numbers if he wants a raise.

[R.J]

IIRC Geroy's contract was reportedly 180K. Completely agree Invader, Fantuz is not at Geroy's level yet, but being an NI talent will surely inflate his contract numbers.

[R.J]

Here's the Canadian Free Press/TSN article on the Fantuz "situation". http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=387167

[paulwoods13]

$200,000 is Geroy Simon or Darcy Tucker type money. Fantuz isn't in that league yet. He should be happy with $150k, then put up some comparable numbers if he wants a raise.

Fantuz is a hell of a lot better than Darcy Tucker, and Bryan McCabe for that matter.

[ArgoGabe22]

Fantuz is a hell of a lot better than Darcy Tucker, and Bryan McCabe for that matter.

Brilliant!

Jason Tucker was good but 200k is kinda much maybe Milty or Cahoon is a better comparison. Fantuz means a lot to SSK (sponsers, jerseys etc.) so no doubt they will give him the most up front.

[matchuk]

$200,000 is Geroy Simon or Darcy Tucker type money. Fantuz isn't in that league yet. He should be happy with $150k, then put up some comparable numbers if he wants a raise.

darcy tucker? give me a break....im thinking more in the $20,000 range

[Area 51]

Fantuz is in a position where he can afford to turn down the Riders offer of $200k right now. I can't imagine his value would drop once he hits FA - - you know there's going to be at least a couple teams interested and if his agent is decent he can play off that interest. So even after FA hits, Fantuz could likely still get the same $200k from the Riders.

If $200k could get him into Toronto I'd pay it. This is a high level Canadian starter and that carries a premium. And I don't think that price is too far off what Murphy's making.

So would you rather have Murphy and Watt starting or Coughman and Fantuz instead? For the same money, give me Coughman and Fantuz every time.

[Invader]

I mentioned Darcy Tucker because he reportedly had a $200k contract and was one and two with Geroy as the top receivers in the league over the past several years IMHO. I can't think of any other receivers in the $200k range? (Geroy's previous deal was reportedly for $190k).Tucker had some injury issues, but had great speed, great moves and great hands. Fantuz has adequate speed, good moves and good hands (when he isn't suffering "dropsy" issues), but is a non-import which counts for something.

[jerrym]

I think you mean Jason Tucker of the Eskimos who retired several years ago, not Darcy Tucker the hockey player who also retired several years ago.

[1argoholic]

Too funny and I happen to like Darcy the hockey player Tucker. I'm sure he made more than that in his day.
That was a funny series of posts. I'm laughing but I'm sure I've screwed up names plenty on here. I wouldn't pay Fantuz that money. Screw him and his heads either in the clowds or up his A$$.

[zontar]

Pretty much a white flag from Taman. Noticed many a Rider fan are test driving Fantuz-is-a-selfish jerk-we-dont-need-you angle. Thought Bummer fans were the worst at running down players after they've left but SSK comes awfully close.

[Mulder]

Fantuz is in a position where he can afford to turn down the Riders offer of $200k right now. I can't imagine his value would drop once he hits FA - - you know there's going to be at least a couple teams interested and if his agent is decent he can play off that interest. So even after FA hits, Fantuz could likely still get the same $200k from the Riders.

If $200k could get him into Toronto I'd pay it. This is a high level Canadian starter and that carries a premium. And I don't think that price is too far off what Murphy's making.

So would you rather have Murphy and Watt starting or Coughman and Fantuz instead? For the same money, give me Coughman and Fantuz every time.

200K+ base contract is way to much for Fantuz. Who's played 1 full season in the last 4 years. Maybe 150K with playing game bonuses to reach 200K

[argonaut11xx]

well....i dont care how much Fantuz commands.....good for him for getting what he can...football is a VERY short career....

that said......

"Ray hits Fantuz for the Touchdown"...is something i could get used to hearing during Argo games.....

[Oarsman]

Fantuz is a hell of a lot better than Darcy Tucker, and Bryan McCabe for that matter.

But I don't think he is better than Darryl Sittler. :o

[argotom]

I would pull the trigger on a contract if I was GM Barker, just think of the possibility of Ray to Fantuz.

[paulwoods13]

As always, it's easy for us to sit here and say "let's go get the guy" since we don't have to manage a salary cap. It's kind of like saying, "let's sign every experienced backup QB out there" -- some of those signings would likely require signing bonuses that would eat into the cap. I would love to see Fantuz here, but if it meant cutting loose, say, three of our existing free agents who would otherwise be signed, I'd say don't do it. That said, I basically agree with Area 51 -- I'd take Coughman and Fantuz over Murphy and Watt, for sure. I don't think it's quite that simple -- I don't want to release Watt, just want him to back up Fantuz or have to win a spot somewhere else -- but in general terms I think the dollars could work in that equation. If Taylor R is let go and the Argos replace him with Eppele, even better (provided that we sign/develop sufficient backup depth on the o-line). I'd like to see Pottinger and Eiben re-signed, if they are healthy, so that's a factor as well.

[Argonauter]

Fantuz makes the big money because he's Canadian. Whoever gets him will have to spend over 200,000 for sure.

[Area 51]

200K+ base contract is way to much for Fantuz. Who's played 1 full season in the last 4 years. Maybe 150K with playing game bonuses to reach 200K



You think it's too much becaues Fantuz misses too many games? Or because you don't think he's any good?

[Area 51]

That said, I basically agree with Area 51 -- I'd take Coughman and Fantuz over Murphy and Watt, for sure. I don't think it's quite that simple -- I don't want to release Watt, just want him to back up Fantuz or have to win a spot somewhere else -- but in general terms I think the dollars could work in that equation.



I'm not sure how much more simplified it could get. Cut one starter who's making $200k and replace him with a minimum salary guy means you can cut a minimum salary guy and replace him with a new $200k FA and still be in the same spot cap wise. Do the dollars match up? Yes. Does it improve the team? Immensely.

I don't care what happens to Watt, as long as he gets upgraded with Fantuz. Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not seeing much ability from Watt. He's fast, but has brutal hands and no concept of route running. That fit in perfectly with last year's offensive game plan under the Tennis Player and DeMatteo, but I'm guessing there might be a few timing patterns mixed in along with some actual routes this year. I don't see Watt fitting in anywhere with a game plan like that. Doesn't matter if they keep him or cut him, just as long as he isn't on the field in an offensive set.

[argonaut11xx]

...the Argo's NEED a premier reciever, there is no question about that. Fantuz is the BEST out there right now. If the Argo's want a shot at a Grey Cup appearance, Fantuz would be a huge piece of that puzzle.

...personally, i would keep Murphy, depth and experience on the O-Line is going to be massively important this year with a not so mobile QB like Ricky Ray. (I'd re-sign Picard 1st, and Robertson also)

..the solution to freeing up cash to get Fantuz, simple....dont re-sign Eiben.

...yes its a tough decision, because he is a fan favorite, nice guy, blah, blah blah....the fact is , he's old, he's broken, and his skill are diminished from even a few years ago.

...im sure Eibens salary is equivilant to what we would have to pay Fantuz, and making our defence younger, faster and stronger is a GOOD thing.

[marcwagz]

murphy sucks he was overpaid when he was signed
we played better after he was injured, not saying it was good thing
but i dont think we need him or fantuz

would rather get greg carr

[marcwagz]

I'm not sure how much more simplified it could get. Cut one starter who's making $200k and replace him with a minimum salary guy means you can cut a minimum salary guy and replace him with a new $200k FA and still be in the same spot cap wise. Do the dollars match up? Yes. Does it improve the team? Immensely.

I don't care what happens to Watt, as long as he gets upgraded with Fantuz. Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not seeing much ability from Watt. He's fast, but has brutal hands and no concept of route running. That fit in perfectly with last year's offensive game plan under the Tennis Player and DeMatteo, but I'm guessing there might be a few timing patterns mixed in along with some actual routes this year. I don't see Watt fitting in anywhere with a game plan like that. Doesn't matter if they keep him or cut him, just as long as he isn't on the field in an offensive set.

watt was the most ignored player in our offence last year, open often but rarely passed to, and he only dropped like 2 catches
he will be much better with ray throwing the ball

[ArgoGabe22]

I don't think Eiben's salary is 200k maybe more like 120k. The problem with the cap is Ray's 400k contract. Jim Barker was also very clear he's not spending on free agents much like last year. Wouldn't be surprised if we signed no one except for Canadian backups like Paul Woldu.

[ArgoRavi]

...the Argo's NEED a premier reciever, there is no question about that. Fantuz is the BEST out there right now. If the Argo's want a shot at a Grey Cup appearance, Fantuz would be a huge piece of that puzzle.

...personally, i would keep Murphy, depth and experience on the O-Line is going to be massively important this year with a not so mobile QB like Ricky Ray. (I'd re-sign Picard 1st, and Robertson also)

..the solution to freeing up cash to get Fantuz, simple....dont re-sign Eiben.

...yes its a tough decision, because he is a fan favorite, nice guy, blah, blah blah....the fact is , he's old, he's broken, and his skill are diminished from even a few years ago.

...im sure Eibens salary is equivilant to what we would have to pay Fantuz, and making our defence younger, faster and stronger is a GOOD thing.

I seriously doubt that they can sign all of Murphy, Picard and Robertson along with Fantuz at $200k+ and only drop Eiben. I don't think that the math works for that scenario.

[paulwoods13]

I don't care what happens to Watt, as long as he gets upgraded with Fantuz. Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not seeing much ability from Watt. He's fast, but has brutal hands and no concept of route running. That fit in perfectly with last year's offensive game plan under the Tennis Player and DeMatteo, but I'm guessing there might be a few timing patterns mixed in along with some actual routes this year. I don't see Watt fitting in anywhere with a game plan like that. Doesn't matter if they keep him or cut him, just as long as he isn't on the field in an offensive set.

I'm not ready to give up on the guy yet. He has speed, and there are a lot of solid players (and some stars) who didn't show much in their first two years in the league. I don't see how it makes sense to condemn any of our young receivers based on their performance in a substandard passing concept.

[R.J]

I'm not sure how much more simplified it could get. Cut one starter who's making $200k and replace him with a minimum salary guy means you can cut a minimum salary guy and replace him with a new $200k FA and still be in the same spot cap wise. Do the dollars match up? Yes. Does it improve the team? Immensely.

I don't care what happens to Watt, as long as he gets upgraded with Fantuz. Maybe I'm missing something, but I'm not seeing much ability from Watt. He's fast, but has brutal hands and no concept of route running. That fit in perfectly with last year's offensive game plan under the Tennis Player and DeMatteo, but I'm guessing there might be a few timing patterns mixed in along with some actual routes this year. I don't see Watt fitting in anywhere with a game plan like that. Doesn't matter if they keep him or cut him, just as long as he isn't on the field in an offensive set.IMO I think it's a bit harsh to say Watt has brutal hands or no concept of route running. Jyles brought up how the Argos receivers didn't use route markers, so it wasn't a specific spot they had to been in. It was almost like "zone" route running, which made it harder for Jyles to find receivers, I'm not ready to give up on Watt, I honestly believe he has the tools to succeed in the CFL. Fantuz would be a great catch (pardon the pun), but for the money he wants it's not worth it (let alone the fact he is coming off injury and might have NFLitis).