July 19, 2013: Toronto Argonauts vs. Winnipeg Blue Bombers

[T-Bone]

http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/tor.png vs. http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/wpg.png

Week 4
Friday, July 19, 2013 at 8:00pm EDT.
Investors Group Field. Winnipeg, MB.

TV: TSN (http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/feature/?id=508)
Video Webcast: Mobile TV (http://www.tsn.ca/mobiletv/) - ESPN3 (http://cfl.ca/page/us-broadcast-schedule)
Team Radio TOR: TSN Radio 1050 (http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/feature/?fid=43622) - WPG: CJOB 680 (http://www.cjob.com/Sports/BomberReport.aspx)
Audio Webcast: TOR: Here (http://www.tsn.ca/Toronto/listen/) - WPG: Here (http://player.cjob.com/)
Satellite Radio: SiriusXM (http://www.siriusxm.ca/sports-schedules/cfl/)

Depth Charts: TOR: Here (http://www.argonauts.ca/depthchart/list/team/7/year/2013) - WPG: Here (http://www.bluebombers.com/depthchart/list/team/5)

Post Game: Bombers Bombed by Boatmen (http://www.argonauts.ca/article/recap-bombers-bombed-by-boatmen)

[jerrym]

This is an important game for both teams obviously with all teams in the East tied with 1-2 records. The key questions for the Argos will be whether their defence can tighten up enough and whether the OL can provide decent blocking for Kackert and enough time for Ray to do more than dump the ball off nearly all the time. I recognize that qb ratings are not the end-all and be-all of determining a qb's worth. However, if the defence cannot hold down Winnipeg's low scoring team led by Pierce whose qb rating is 27 to 63 points below the first rank of CFL qbs (Ray-Burris-Durant-Lulay) and 27 points below even Calgary's Tate-Glenn, then it is in more difficulty than even I thought, as Simpson, a very good runner, gained 100 yards only in the last game after game totals of 35 yards and 55 yards. If they can't keep Simpson under control when they are facing a far from vaunted passing attack, then the Argos have major defensive problems that will not be easy (though not impossible) to fix by the end of the season, as we saw last year. Only Calvillo, whether it's a matter of age finally catching up with him or a former NFL head coach not designing a passing game designed to take advantage of the CFL game and Calvillo's quick release, and the inexperienced Mike Reilly rank below Pierce, and then only by 2 and 6 points respectively. By the way Collaros, based on extremely limited passing attempts admittedly, ranks 36 points ahead of Pierce and only 7 points behind Ray.
http://www.cfl.ca/statistics/league/stat/Passing/year/2013/type/reg

[1argoholic]

We need to get the ball away very quickly into the hads of anybody but Ray. We do not need Ray taking a six or seven sack beating. Hopefully we can run a dink and dunk game plan as Winnipeg will be coming hard. If we can avoid to many sacks and hold onto the ball on long drives we can wear the Winnipeg D down. We can't play right into their hands. Obviously this team is a sacking machine. I wouldn't mind seeing a few direct snaps to Kackert. Some trickery would be nice. We've had issues getting the ball deep and the way Winnipeg comes at you we don't need Ray running for his life and getting killed.

[ArgoRedneck]

Week #2, 3 out of 4 on Pro Line. Week #3, 3 out of 4 also. Guess who cost me $260. Argos. Guess who I am taking this week. ARGOS.

[Ron]

I thought last game Ray had plenty of time. Problem was he had nobody getting open down field. A number of those sacks were coverage sacks.

[argolio]

Week #2, 3 out of 4 on Pro Line. Week #3, 3 out of 4 also. Guess who cost me $260. Argos. Guess who I am taking this week. ARGOS.That's the spirit!

[294life]

Hopefully we can run a dink and dunk game plan as Winnipeg will be coming hard

and here I thought Milo was brought in to take him away from that plan. old habits die hard i guess.

[ArgoGabe22]

Not sure if this means anything with it being the first practice of the week and being shortened one on top of it but here are some observations...

Inman did not practice, Chiles took his spot. Durie looked fine and took reps, Bradwell was in gear and did some running on his own. The O-Line was Washington-Eppele(sometimes Smith)-Kepping-CVZ-King. Jalil Carter did not participate. I did see a lot of reps from Gatlin and Lawrence at CB. Also saw Pottinger take a lot of reps today, McCune was not injured or anything like that. Looks like Issac was playing at halfback, not sure because Jones' defence isn't very traditional. Looks like Pottinger and Horton are DEs but Lee is in there as well. Mister Alexander was the other starting end, I did not see Nekos Brown or the new signing.

[gilthethrill]

Chris Schultz predicts a Bomber victory....he points out the Argos employ 2 rookie DB,s side by side (I think he meant Jamie Robinson at cb, not Zander), but fails to mention Winnipeg was decimated with injuries and will starting more rookies on D. I think this will be the game Buck leaves early. Argos win to reclaim top spot in the East.

[mchesher03]

Argos should be fine provided they can keep some time of possession, capitalize on opportunities (big issue last 2 games with not converting for TD's) they'll be ok. With our current defence (no disrespect intended) - we need to put up more points than in previous years.

[EmDiggy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxS3AFmfAHU

Good afternoon Argo fans! Good luck this week!

Em

[ArgoRavi]

I think that we will see a better game from the Argo defence this week and a solid performance overall leading to victory. A loss to a Winnipeg team which I feel we are much better than would be extremely disappointing and frustrating.

[T-Bone]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Bombers leading receiver, cory watson, doubtful for friday after dan west tackled him on last play of practice--burke upset with west</p>&mdash; Bob Irving (@BobIrvingCJOB) <a href="https://twitter.com/BobIrvingCJOB/statuses/357573402858500096">July 17, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Wobbler]

I think the return of Washington (who is apparently now healthy) at LT will help enough for Ray to have a good game. We'll win, 31-17.

I really don't understand our OL personnel strategy this year - and I don't think the right questions have been asked - but it seems to take time for import tackles to learn to work with the interior guys.

[Wobbler]

Nice summary. Thanks!

[bluto]

lots of broken Bombers... hopefully the Argos take advantage of the opportunity to get back to .500 and hit reset on the season

[gilthethrill]

Argo D must take Chad Simpson out of the game and make Dollar Pierce beat them. Winnipeg's D looked good against a poor Montreal O two weeks in a row and again against Hamilton. Ricky Ray will be their biggest test.

[gilthethrill]

I think the return of Washington (who is apparently now healthy) at LT will help enough for Ray to have a good game. We'll win, 31-17.

I really don't understand our OL personnel strategy this year - and I don't think the right questions have been asked - but it seems to take time for import tackles to learn to work with the interior guys.

Why would the coaches take a good tackle like Van Zeyl and move him inside?

[Argocister]

Argo D must take Chad Simpson out of the game and make Dollar Pierce beat them. Winnipeg's D looked good against a poor Montreal O two weeks in a row and again against Hamilton. Ricky Ray will be their biggest test.
Hey this is Canada ...... It's loonie not dollar. :)


Why would the coaches take a good tackle like Van Zeyl and move him inside?

I was wondering that at the beginning of the season.... And thought maybe it was because VanZeyl knows the play book better? Or maybe he's stronger? Wasn't VanZeyl one of the top RT in the league last year?
Perhaps they are still experimenting and when the second half of the season rolls around he's back to Right Tackle.

[OV Argo]

Why would the coaches take a good tackle like Van Zeyl and move him inside?

It's more a "Canadian position" to a lot of the good ol , er, CFL decision making thinkers; a lot of former accomplished NI OTs have been moved to the interior O-Line in the CFL (like 6-11 O'Donnell with the Esks) and imports preferred mostly at OT (the Als have been starting 2 NI OTs for some time now though). Interesting that the Riders moved last year's top draft pick - Ben Heenan - out to OT this year and did not just hand the job to one of the import OTs they had in TC; Heenan is more a natural guard, but did have some CIS experience at OT - and is apparently grading out strong at OT for the Riders; also interesting maybe that the Riders play/"start" more Canadians than all other CFL teams now (no ratio need to start Heenan at OT) and they seem to be doing OK with it - i guess they don't have any "ratio problem" there now?

[Wobbler]

Yesterday Milanovich said that Inman would probably be a game-time decision, but it appears that the decision has already been made: he won't play on Friday. Chiles will play in his spot, and that's the only change to the depth chart (http://cfl.uploads.mrx.ca/league/pdf/en/depth/2013/2013_RegSeasonGame4vsWPGJuly19074932.pdf).

[AngeloV]

Yesterday Milanovich said that Inman would probably be a game-time decision, but it appears that the decision has already been made: he won't play on Friday. Chiles will play in his spot, and that's the only change to the depth chart (http://cfl.uploads.mrx.ca/league/pdf/en/depth/2013/2013_RegSeasonGame4vsWPGJuly19074932.pdf).

Great opportunity for Chiles to show something. If he impresses, it could be the beginning of the end for Barnes. I like Barnes, but I really like the speed Chiles has.

[gilthethrill]

Great opportunity for Chiles to show something. If he impresses, it could be the beginning of the end for Barnes. I like Barnes, but I really like the speed Chiles has.

Once again AV, I agree with you about Chiles. With his much needed speed, he could pose a thread to Barnes who had a big game in week 1 due large in part of a breakdown in Hamiltons D. Perhaps Iglasius gains more playing time this Friday as well. We should win this game, which is why I am nervous....

[Argo57]

Winnipeg so far has a good pass rush, Argonauts must get Kackert going early to set up the pass, conversely on Defence the Argonauts must establish a pass rush of their own either with front 4 pressure or more likely multiple blitz packages.
To quote Leo again "Only an act of god will keep the Argonauts from victory"!!!

[Will]

Winnipeg so far has a good pass rush, Argonauts must get Kackert going early to set up the pass, conversely on Defence the Argonauts must establish a pass rush of their own either with front 4 pressure or more likely multiple blitz packages.
To quote Leo again "Only an act of god will keep the Argonauts from victory"!!!

Please never use this quote before an Argo game again!

I'm nervous about this game for the exact reason that gillthethrill states.

[Argo57]

Please never use this quote before an Argo game again!

I'm nervous about this game for the exact reason that gillthethrill states.

Why not? It worked out well last time didn't it???

[Will]

Why not? It worked out well last time didn't it???

Yeah, if your name is Russ Jackson.

[Argo57]

Yeah, if your name is Russ Jackson.

I feel your pain regarding the upcoming game, I get the pre-game jitters as well, the Argonauts need to be extremely careful Friday as both teams strengths match up (Winnipeg D - Argonauts O), the big question also will be how the struggling Winnipeg O does against the Argonauts D which has also struggled so far, the winner of this battle should win the game!

[Stevoman]

Argos should win but this will be a tough one on the road. With BC the following week, I think there is an urgency to tomorrow's game as we never seem to beat the Lions. The Argos D will be much better and so will our O. I'm going with Argos by 10.

[bluto]

going to be soooo sick of #5 tomorrow night... i hope Jones is ready to avenge his loss (yeah, to me it was on him) in week 17 last season.

[argotom]

The D line must get pressure on Buck while the DB's have to be aggressive on the cover side. On offense, like some have said Kackert has to be used throughout the game and the line must give Ray time to set up and attack downfield.

[Argo-Les]

ok guys! lets get er dun tonight! defense pick it up and lets air out the ball miss inman ..................lets hope chiles lives upto expectations

[Argo57]

Some nice play calling!!
Great catch by Chad!!......D needs to dig in!

[Argocister]

Thanks to TSN radio.... No power at my place so it's old fashion ..... Hang around the iPad.
Thanks to Owens for the TD!

[dmont]

Patrick Watson doesn't seem like the same player as last year.

[dmont]

Chiles is having a lousy game so far. Dropped a pass right on the numbers. Just missed his man on a kackert run, leading to a punt.

[Wobbler]

I'm starting to worry about Kackert. He has not been good at breaking or dodging tackles this year.

This Ray guy, however, is quite good. We should play him more.

[294life]

clock is ticking for Boo-Boo Timbit Burke. can't start losing too many in your brand new digs.

[294life]

This Ray guy, however, is quite good. We should play him more. where'd they get him again? :D

[OV Argo]

Great game by Ray and the O thus far - against a good Bomber D - accurate passing and faith in some deep ball (as opposed to that horrid dink & dunk effort vs. BC) - superb throw AND superb catch on that corner route TD to Owens; I've been quite impressed by the Argos' rookie OT Jarell King - solid, tough blocker to allow Ray lots of time; Spencer Watt impressing too - along with Owens & Durie; run game needs to get better though IMO.

D still a bit iffy though; Cleon Laing continues to impress me, but otherwise D looking so-so; hoping Jones' pulls them together as the season wears on, but a lot of inexperience there, and the notion that Jones could easily over-come the loss of so many good D players from last year (Foley, Armstead, McCullough, Carroll, Younger) was/is laughable; Matt Black maybe doing OK as a young safety, but much more needed from the D-Line and D-backfield, and the LB corps maybe experienced and talented but has to do better vs. the ruin - seen Pottinger in a few plays this game - not sure in what formation; i'd give Yurichuck or even Tonye-Tonye some shots to see if they can help shore up the run game D - bigger LB types.

[Argo57]

Kackert does look more tentative, perhaps he is nicked up a little??
Winnipeg is ready for the run up the middle on second and short, time to change it up a little.
Ray looks great again, highly efficient!!! ( Thanks Mr Tillman).

[Wobbler]

I don't think Winnipeg will be running much for the rest of this game, OV.

[OV Argo]

I don't think Winnipeg will be running much for the rest of this game, OV.


Yeah - 2 TD drives behind to start the 2nd half - definitely time for CFL good ole boy offensive thinkers to abandon the run game.

[Argo57]

Holy sh*t hopefully Ricky is ok!

[tennyis]

uh oh.. hope this isn't to serious... on the bright side we get to see collaros again.

[Deerkeeper]

Ray walked off okay, so hopefully its not to serious.

[Wobbler]

Yeah - 2 TD drives behind to start the 2nd half - definitely time for CFL good ole boy offensive thinkers to abandon the run game.
Those fools! Chad Simpson blasted us for 21 yards in the first half!

[Wobbler]

Full credit to the Bombers there - they needed a blocked punt and we were too casual.

[Ballstothewall]

Hey, did anyone else notice Rob Ford standing on the sidelines at this game. Could he be checking a the new stadium and how a new place may look in T.O. Hmmmm

[tennyis]

quick sign cb3! lol

[dmont]

This is mighty... strange quarterbacking. Leave one of them in there, see what he does.

[tennyis]

I think they are doing a lot of coaching on the two young qb's. let them play then watch? I dunno it is weird though... Turnover!

[Wobbler]

I don't like the idea of putting Durie in as the every-down RB. Stop doing that.

Dammit, I wrote that before he *just* limped off after a short catch.

[Argo57]

This is mighty... strange quarterbacking. Leave one of them in there, see what he does.

Totally agree, neither one will be able to get in a rhythm, Harris gets a big completion then gets pulled????
Shane Horton looks like a keeper!!!

[Deerkeeper]

Not looking good for the offence right now with Ray and Kackert out, and we can't have Pre missing those field goals. It's on the D now.

[Argo57]

Pretty solid effort on all sides of the ball, still things to work on but the D looks like it is gaining some chemistry and confidence, hopefully it will carry over against some of the more elite teams in the league.
Hopefully the injuries aren't too severe.
A win is a win I'll take it!!!

[Wobbler]

Jalil Carter seems to be seriously hurt. This is terrible in several ways.

Edit: not so serious!

[Argo57]

Jalil Carter seems to be seriously hurt. This is terrible in several ways.

Head and neck injuries are scary as hell!!
Lets get the game over and get out of there!!!

[Argos4Life]

Happy with the win. Coming away with several banged up starters though. Hopefully none too serious.

[OV Argo]

Those fools! Chad Simpson blasted us for 21 yards in the first half!


Yes - much better to rely on an iffy passing QB, a weak pass blocking O-Line and a decimated receiving corps; rather than thinking that a top notch RB could help your O - against the worst run D in the league thus far; but - keep on rationalizing and sucking up to standard good ole boy CFL thinking if you must. ;o)

[KCargosfan]

I don't like the idea of putting Durie in as the every-down RB. Stop doing that.



Agreed. Putting one of our top skill guys as the RB when we're trying to burn clock wasn't bright.

Ray is a freaking stud. What a brilliant performance.

[Deerkeeper]

Great win, but lets wait for the medical report before we celebrate to much.

[ArgoRavi]

Yes - much better to rely on an iffy passing QB, a weak pass blocking O-Line and a decimated receiving corps; rather than thinking that a top notch RB could help your O - against the worst run D in the league thus far; but - keep on rationalizing and sucking up to standard good ole boy CFL thinking if you must. ;o)

The Argo defence did shut Simpson down for the most part tonight, OV. Your favourite, McCune, had an especially strong game.

[294life]

No better time to get 11 days off before your next game. First place gentlemen. Congrats.

[argos1873]

I missed it...what happened to Kack?

[OV Argo]

Agreed. Putting one of our top skill guys as the RB when we're trying to burn clock wasn't bright.

Ray is a freaking stud. What a brilliant performance.

Coulda just gone to Jeff Johnson at tailback - he is experienced and capable; but Durie is a natural tailback; should a top skill guy like Owens be doing double duty as a receiver and returner?

That idiot Suitor went on about the CFL needing to add more roster spots for such situations - total nonsense IMO - rosters are already big enough (too big IMO) - the Argos had Johnson available at RB and Iglesias or Feoli-Gudino available at receiver; back-ups/depth guys are around and can play when injuries happen.

[1argoholic]

Very happy with the way we kicked arse tonight. We gave up one very lame sack and floated late making the game look closer than it was. Suiter is a fool as always and I don't give a rats butt how short a guy is but that diving below the knees as he was turned and the ball was bouncing on the ground was total BS! Hope Ray, Kack and Carter are all ok. Carter was in great shape until the other Argo forced the receiver into the top of his head with his knee.

I'm very happy with the game.

[ArgoRavi]

That idiot Suitor went on about the CFL needing to add more roster spots for such situations - total nonsense IMO - rosters are already big enough (too big IMO) - the Argos had Johnson available at RB and Iglesias or Feoli-Gudino available at receiver; back-ups/depth guys are around and can play when injuries happen.

I agree with you on this, OV. The last thing this league needs to have is even larger rosters than is currently the case. That will just result in more specialization like what we see in the NFL which may mean more specialists on defence and special teams especially and fewer big offensive and special teams plays. In fact, I would like to see rosters reduced to 40 players at the most.

[Argo57]

Keep the roster sizes as they are and pay the existing guys more, as we witnessed tonight these guys lay it on the line each game as deserve a bigger piece of the pie!!

[ArgoGabe22]

I missed the game and have no clue what happened. I saw the highlights so I am aware of Ray's and Kackert's injury but what happened to Carter? So they put in Harris for a series and then went with Collaros on the next? Jeff Jonhnson didn't replace Kackert? I would have thought he would but Wobbler said that Durie went in as RB? Ray went 19/20 and also lead the team in rushing. Who said he wasn't mobile? lol So Chiles didn't impress? He did have a 55 yard play acording to the stats.

Ottawa watch: Justin Goltz looked good going 13/15 on paper maybe he'll takeover as #1 and be protected.

Sorry for all the questions, articles don't really cover much and the highlights were lacking. Like who doesn't show a blocked punt?

[argos1873]

I say we go to 20 man rosters with limited substitution, that would certainly define Canadian football. I was born 15-20 years after the platoon system came to the CFL, but I still hate it :)

[Will]

Chiles dropped #15's only incompletion of the night, but caught a 55-yard pass on a beautiful pass by Harris.

Ricky was except for that drop perfect on the evening. The fact he walked off the field on his own power is promising. I thought the offensive line did a much better job at giving him time tonight against a tough pass rush. I am a tad concerned about their inability to convert the 2nd and 3's though.

Sara Orlesky tweeted that Carter is fine.

[dmont]

Much improved: Robinson, got his interception and shut his man down better than the first three games, but I wish he would just make the tackle rather than trying to strip the ball and letting the receiver gain another ten yards; Jackson, I didn't notice him, and that's a good thing; Entire O-line and D-Line, looks like Eppele may lose his spot. O-line coach was really pissed at him on the sidelines. Took a step back: Patrick Watkins, some missed blocks and half-hearted tackles early on; Julien Feoli-Gudino missed at least two blocks (I mistakenly thought it was Chiles) on offense and specials, one leading to a punt and the other to a BLOCKED punt! Happy we won, but concerned about so many injuries so late in the game. Sorry this is all one paragraph; I'm using Windows 8 and for some reason on this forum it won't let me do any line spacing :(

[Stevoman]

Good game. That first half was a thing of beauty! Obviously concerned with the injuries but this is also a good time for 10 days between games. On a side note, can someone tell me what is on Chad Owens skull cap that he wears under the helmet? They are a bunch of circular things that I don't know, help with circulation? That's my guess...

[ArgoRavi]

Chiles dropped #15's only incompletion of the night, but caught a 55-yard pass on a beautiful pass by Harris.

Ricky was except for that drop perfect on the evening. The fact he walked off the field on his own power is promising. I thought the offensive line did a much better job at giving him time tonight against a tough pass rush. I am a tad concerned about their inability to convert the 2nd and 3's though.

Sara Orlesky tweeted that Carter is fine.

I am not surprised about Carter as I think that they were taking precautions just in case it was a neck injury. My completely uneducated guess is that Ray is not seriously injured at all and may even be able to play against B.C. I don't see him missing much time. I suspect that Kackert may be out for a while though.

[argolio]

This is mighty... strange quarterbacking. Leave one of them in there, see what he does.Trying to confuse Ottawa?? Confused me anyway.

Though we might need them both if Ray is out for any length of time.


The Argo defence did shut Simpson down for the most part tonight, OV. Your favourite, McCune, had an especially strong game.Quit shattering his illusions!


Keep the roster sizes as they are and pay the existing guys more, as we witnessed tonight these guys lay it on the line each game as deserve a bigger piece of the pie!!I'm down with that.


Great game for the most part other than the injuries. Hopefully the medical report delivers good news for every one who was dinged up.

Bit of a Jeckyll and Hyde game by the o-line. Pass blocking was almost perfect against a team with a really good pass rush, allowing Ray time to go downfield for bigger plays unlike the B.C game when he was forced to check down too much. Run blocking is another story. Looked like we had solidified that area at the end of last season, but I guess that still needs work. We can't expect to win very often with Ray leading the team in rushing.

Outstanding all-around effort by the D. Allowing no majors until the 4th quarter (when it didn't matter) is a recipe for victory, and nice to see a great bounce-back game against the run.

On special teams, coverage units were excellent. Pre's kicking on the other hand, not so good.

[Ron]

Nice after the game opinions on the Kack hit

Suitor during the game talking about the guy hits low because he is a smaller player
Steagal stating that in slow mo he thought it was a dirty play but in real time it looked fine
Climie stating outright that the hit was dirty. He had time to see the ball was on the ground.

[argolio]

He had time to see the ball was on the ground.In slow motion he did. In regular speed I'm not so sure. Tough call.

What would have really helped was a much better throw!

[paulwoods13]

Robinson and Jackson appear to be getting better on their side of the secondary.

Still not sold on any of our defensive ends.

O-line really stepped it up on pass protection but could not open any holes for the running game. Eppele and Smith continue to rotate at LG.

I love Pre, but it might be time to bring in an import kicker -- his punting and KOs are not nearly what they used to be, and he missed two or three FGs last night.

It's only Game 1 of the weekend, but RR may well win offensive POTW despite playing less than three quarters. A 95% completion rate (should have been 100%) is unbelievable. I've said it before and I'll repeat it -- he stays healthy, he wins the MOP this year.

[ArgoZ]

Robinson and Jackson appear to be getting better on their side of the secondary.

Still not sold on any of our defensive ends.

O-line really stepped it up on pass protection but could not open any holes for the running game. Eppele and Smith continue to rotate at LG.

I love Pre, but it might be time to bring in an import kicker -- his punting and KOs are not nearly what they used to be, and he missed two or three FGs last night.

It's only Game 1 of the weekend, but RR may well win offensive POTW despite playing less than three quarters. A 95% completion rate (should have been 100%) is unbelievable. I've said it before and I'll repeat it -- he stays healthy, he wins the MOP this year.

I agree on Pre. On pure football sense, they need to start looking for kickers immediately if Waters is out long term. Too many yards are being given up on punts. Ray's dominance hid the need for a clutch FG kicker last night, but that's not always going to be the case. I understand Pre is cost effective, Canadian, Argo favorite, but the probability of his deteriorating play costing us games is too high of a risk.

[AngeloV]

Allowing no majors until the 4th quarter (when it didn't matter)

For those of us that took this game to go under 51.5 points on proline, I beg to differ. :mad:

[Jarid]

I still think the secondary is giving up too many big pass plays (reminds me of my New England Patriots before they got Talib and Dennard at the corners)

It was nice to see Robison finally get his first CFL pick. The one he returned last week that got called back was stupid.

The offense looked pretty good. Ray calling his own number and taking it in for the touchdown was awesome. One thing I noticed is they gotta get the run game going more. The O line needs to try create more holes for the backs.

[Will]

For those of us that took this game to go under 51.5 points on proline, I beg to differ. :mad:

Friend I was watching game with kept wanting WPG to score so that he'd get the over that he had taken.

[argotom]

Too bad the great victory is very much overshadowed by the injuries to Ray and Kack.

[KCargosfan]

Coulda just gone to Jeff Johnson at tailback - he is experienced and capable; but Durie is a natural tailback; should a top skill guy like Owens be doing double duty as a receiver and returner?


Yes, they should have gone straight to Johnson. Durie is just a natural athlete who can play RB or WR and someone who shouldn't be taking shots with the game well in hand. I have no problem with Owens doing both when the game is in question, just don't have him doing returns when we are up by 3 touchdowns.

[argotom]

Chad is having problems as a returner, maybe they should take him off special teams since he is used so often on the offensive side. It appears he no longer has that burst when returning kicks and always goes towards the short side and into coverage.

[Will]

I would argue that his blocking teams on kick returns and punt returns have been poor.

[Argo57]

I think the Argonauts will have a decision to make shortly regarding Owens role with the team or risk certain injury which will shorten his career, watching these games and the increasing punishment he is taking he should only be utilized as a receiver, he does seem to lack the burst he has had in the past (as noted by others).

[ArgoGabe22]

I would argue that his blocking teams on kick returns and punt returns have been poor.

Agreed. You can't hit the hole when the hole isn't there. He averaged roughly 15 yds a return last night.

[argotom]

It may be a combination of both!

[argofandave]

I went out last night and set my DVD recorder for the game but came home early because of the bad weather only to find out that my power went off before the game started and didn't come back on until the game was over so I didn't see any of the game or have it recorded. Does TSN repeat any of the games on TSN (I don't get TSN2)? Does TSN have the games on their website for fans to watch? This game reminded of the Argo game in Winnipeg last year where the Argos had a great first quarter but since the TSN coverage of the Ryder Cup went long, the Argo game started on TSN2 until the Ryder Cup coverage was completed sometime during the second quarter so I missed seeing that as well. Thanks.

[Stevoman]

I went out last night and set my DVD recorder for the game but came home early because of the bad weather only to find out that my power went off before the game started and didn't come back on until the game was over so I didn't see any of the game or have it recorded. Does TSN repeat any of the games on TSN (I don't get TSN2)? Does TSN have the games on their website for fans to watch? This game reminded of the Argo game in Winnipeg last year where the Argos had a great first quarter but since the TSN coverage of the Ryder Cup went long, the Argo game started on TSN2 until the Ryder Cup coverage was completed sometime during the second quarter so I missed seeing that as well. Thanks.

Open video player on TSN.ca and scroll to games on demand on the left hand column. The full game is up without commercials.

[Will]

I went out last night and set my DVD recorder for the game but came home early because of the bad weather only to find out that my power went off before the game started and didn't come back on until the game was over so I didn't see any of the game or have it recorded. Does TSN repeat any of the games on TSN (I don't get TSN2)? Does TSN have the games on their website for fans to watch? This game reminded of the Argo game in Winnipeg last year where the Argos had a great first quarter but since the TSN coverage of the Ryder Cup went long, the Argo game started on TSN2 until the Ryder Cup coverage was completed sometime during the second quarter so I missed seeing that as well. Thanks.

This was more than just a 15 minute effort though. The offense was firing on all cylinders for two and a half quarters until Ricky got hurt and it wasn't even that bad afterwards as Prefontaine missed a few field goals that kept the score down a bit. The defense played steadily for much of the game as well. You can watch the game at http://video.tsn.ca/?dl=cfl-gamesondemand/null/1/0/136567/video/0 if you wish.

[argofandave]

Thanks guys. I'll give it a try when I have time.

[ArgoZ]

Open video player on TSN.ca and scroll to games on demand on the left hand column. The full game is up without commercials.

TSN Broadband player is great. I use it to watch Argo games when I am away on vacation. The games are usually up right after the live version and are good quality.

[Will]

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/07/19/argonauts-qb-ray-puts-on-a-clinic-leaves-injured

Shantz seemed to be critical of the defense. I don't disagree that it isn't where we would like them to be, but it isn't as if they were particularly horrible yesterday either.

[ArgoRavi]

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/07/19/argonauts-qb-ray-puts-on-a-clinic-leaves-injured

Shantz seemed to be critical of the defense. I don't disagree that it isn't where we would like them to be, but it isn't as if they were particularly horrible yesterday either.

I don't understand the criticism of the defence either. They gave up 9 points over the first 59 minutes of the game last night. What more does Shantz want?

[Will]

Shantz doesn't make reference to the pass defense or the run defense simply states this as it pertains to yesterday's game:


The Bombers sliced through the Argos defence like a hot knife through butter early on, usually just after a big offensive play by the visitors.

The Blue Bombers did put together a few nice drives early on, but once the second quarter started the Argos largely held them in check until the last minute touchdown. Perhaps he is referring to the fact that Goltz was 13-15 for 170 yards, but even at that I never felt like the Argos felt threatened by him. It was a sort of "bend, but don't break" mentality there.

[paulwoods13]

Yeah, but . . . we played a horrible offence with four of its five starting receivers out of the lineup, a starting QB who got hurt (again) and a backup QB who had impressive stats but seemed nervous and unable to rally his team from behind. Unlike Shantz, I thought the D played well most of last night (with the exception of a few deep throws), but I want to see what they look like against a legitimate offence before I declare that they are back to even average, much less last season's form.

[Will]

I don't disagree with anything you wrote Paul, but the way that Shantz presented that part of the article you would have thought the Argos had to fight "tooth and nail" to have won the game on a last minute TD or FG.

[ArgoRavi]

I don't disagree with anything you wrote Paul, but the way that Shantz presented that part of the article you would have thought the Argos had to fight "tooth and nail" to have won the game on a last minute TD or FG.

Exactly. I am not reading a lot into last night's performance by the defence other than that I would have been disappointed with anything less. The next game against B.C. will be a much better test but hopefully they are back on the right track.

[AngeloV]

The Argos seemed to play a lot more zone last night, and let the D-Line play more like a traditional D-Line. Argos LB crew is very good, so this type of D, just might be something the secondary needs before getting more familiar with each other.

Regarding the deep plays, the first one to Denmark was just a bad match up. I don't know if Jamie Robinson was on the sidelines for the play, but it was Brandon Issaac on 1 on 1 coverage with a receiver that got deep on a lot of DB's last year. The other one was a scramble play late in the game in which the receiver did the right thing and changed his direction when he saw the QB was in trouble. You can't blame a DB for that type of play as the initial coverage was there.

[Argo57]

Perfect type of game to help the Defence gain some level of confidence and hopefully some chemistry, the score was actually quite flattering to Winnipeg.
Lets wait and see where we are after the B.C. game.
Has anyone heard any updates on the injury front yet??

[Will]

Jalil Carter is supposed to be fine according to Sara Orlesky. I suspect we won't hear anything on Chad Kackert and Ricky Ray before the beginning of the week. I don't know when they are supposed to have their MRI's done.

[argotom]

I agree with you. Compared to the first three games, this was a night and day improvement for the D. There was pressure on the QB and the back end with the DB played more of pressed coverage.

[OV Argo]

I agree with you on this, OV. The last thing this league needs to have is even larger rosters than is currently the case. That will just result in more specialization like what we see in the NFL which may mean more specialists on defence and special teams especially and fewer big offensive and special teams plays. In fact, I would like to see rosters reduced to 40 players at the most.

Agreed Ravi - 40 would be plenty and easily allows for back-ups/depth; and there is still the PR to have players around to develop or come in as injury replacements; the 42/46 stuff is garbage/unnecessary IMO.

[gilthethrill]

The penalties were not a factor last night for the Argos. Only 4 punts in a CFL game is rare...but when you only throw 3 incompletions that helps. Must find a way to run the ball in short yardage better. I wonder if Gerald Riggs Jr will be getting a call if Kackert is out for a while.

[paulwoods13]

I agree on Pre. On pure football sense, they need to start looking for kickers immediately if Waters is out long term. Too many yards are being given up on punts. Ray's dominance hid the need for a clutch FG kicker last night, but that's not always going to be the case. I understand Pre is cost effective, Canadian, Argo favorite, but the probability of his deteriorating play costing us games is too high of a risk.

Hamilton has activated Brody McKnight and will sit out Luca Congi on Sunday. I don't know if McKnight was on the PR or the 46, but if he was on the PR, I wonder if the Argos tried to sign him and Ham decided to activate him rather than lose him. Congi could be coming available, depending on how well McKnight does.

[jerrym]

I missed the game as I was bringing my wife home from the hospital (she's OK now) and then attended the annual neighbourhood block party last night. Next Saturday I'm taking my youngest son to Europe and won't be back until the Labour Day weekend. I'll be checking in from time-to-time through the internet so make sure you keep the Argos on the straight-and-narrow to the Grey Cup with your great advice until I get back.

[jerrym]

I wonder if Gerald Riggs Jr will be getting a call if Kackert is out for a while.

Perhaps the Argos would go to Curtis Steele first as they kept him over Riggs when he gained 87 yards on 8 carries in the second preseason game and he is on the active roster. IMO, Riggs was a good backup and could backup Steele at least in the next game so that they see whether Steele measures up in regular season action and to take advantage of ongoing practice time that Riggs is missing.

[ArgoRavi]

Hamilton has activated Brody McKnight and will sit out Luca Congi on Sunday. I don't know if McKnight was on the PR or the 46, but if he was on the PR, I wonder if the Argos tried to sign him and Ham decided to activate him rather than lose him. Congi could be coming available, depending on how well McKnight does.

Sandro DeAngelis is still out there as well and, while he hasn't punted during his time in the CFL, he has stated that he has spent a lot of time working on his punting to make himself more attractive to any CFL suitors. He is as good of a field goal kicker as there is too.

[Rich]

Hey, did anyone else notice Rob Ford standing on the sidelines at this game. Could he be checking a the new stadium and how a new place may look in T.O. Hmmmm

This is intriguing. Robbie may be a crackhead, but if there's one thing he should be good at, it would be bringing developers together to build a football stadium. It's an issue he knows something about and cares about.

Maybe he IS working on a Portlands/football stadium complex plan. Of course knowing Robbie loves the NFL too, the stadium would be expandable to NFL size. But in the meantime the Argos would be the main tenants of a 40,000 seat, high-end stadium with all the amenities unlike those glorified bleacher stands at BMO. Go Robbie!

[Rich]

quick sign cb3! lol


You joke, but as much as I love Chad Kackert, he still can't gain the 2nd and 2 first down consistently like Cory Boyd could. Like Sheets did last week, it's great to have a back who can get the 2 yards even when the D is expecting it. I guess the one weakness of the Milanovich offence is not having the big power back when you need one.

[Rich]

I think the Argonauts will have a decision to make shortly regarding Owens role with the team or risk certain injury which will shorten his career, watching these games and the increasing punishment he is taking he should only be utilized as a receiver, he does seem to lack the burst he has had in the past (as noted by others).

Especially since he keeps improving as a receiver, that was a big-time catch on the TD. Agreed. At least just cut down on the number of kick returns he does, he's such a competitor, the guy wants to be out there every play.

[Rich]

The Argo defence did shut Simpson down for the most part tonight, OV. Your favourite, McCune, had an especially strong game.

I thought all 3 LB carried the defence, just like Jones wants them to. Isaac and Ball had those corners shut down a lot faster than they did the last game.

[Rich]

Perhaps the Argos would go to Curtis Steele first as they kept him over Riggs when he gained 87 yards on 8 carries in the second preseason game and he is on the active roster. IMO, Riggs was a good backup and could backup Steele at least in the next game so that they see whether Steele measures up in regular season action and to take advantage of ongoing practice time that Riggs is missing.

Steele was spectacular in that preseason game, I'm interested to see what he can do. Great football name too. But I don't think they have another IMP RB hanging around, they'll have to sign someone. Would Riggs come back after getting cut again and again by this team?

[Argocister]

Hamilton has activated Brody McKnight and will sit out Luca Congi on Sunday. I don't know if McKnight was on the PR or the 46, but if he was on the PR, I wonder if the Argos tried to sign him and Ham decided to activate him rather than lose him. Congi could be coming available, depending on how well McKnight does.

When McKnight was released from Sask. I was thinking it would be good to pick him up.... But before you know it the Ticats had him. The ALS released him prior to that and kept with Whyte. do you know if McKnight is a better place kicker or punter? I'm thinking that he does one better than the other, otherwise Al's and the Roughriders would have kept him.

I'm not a big fan of Congi or DeAngelis.... They are both good kickers but I think equivalent to Pre.

[gilthethrill]

When McKnight was released from Sask. I was thinking it would be good to pick him up.... But before you know it the Ticats had him. The ALS released him prior to that and kept with Whyte. do you know if McKnight is a better place kicker or punter? I'm thinking that he does one better than the other, otherwise Al's and the Roughriders would have kept him.

I'm not a big fan of Congi or DeAngelis.... They are both good kickers but I think equivalent to Pre.


Actually, Montreal traded McKnight to Edmonton......for a 1st round pick...Tillman really was really generous before getting fired from Edmonton...Kavis traded him to Regina for a much lower pick before they set him free....I thought McKnight was dubbed an NFL prospect at one time

[Argocister]

?........I thought McKnight was dubbed an NFL prospect at one time

I thought so too . ...but if you follow the path.... Montreal traded him, they had Whyte who was the better choice of the two. Edmonton has Shaw, who is good at both place kicking and punting. Sask. has 2 kickers, so McKnight didn't shine by being superior at both. I'm thinking he's a better place kicker than Conji, because that will be his role for the Ticats.... But was just wondering as I haven't seen him play or heard anything about his playing abilities.

[argotom]

Like some have posted, we need Waters back asap.

[Will]

Swayze is out with a groin injury, right? Those are always injuries that nag and you never know when it's going to heal.

[ArgoRavi]

Actually, Montreal traded McKnight to Edmonton......for a 1st round pick...Tillman really was really generous before getting fired from Edmonton...Kavis traded him to Regina for a much lower pick before they set him free....I thought McKnight was dubbed an NFL prospect at one time

Ed Hervey was only able to get a sixth round pick from the Riders only months after Tillman gave up that first round pick for McKnight. And, yes, McKnight was dubbed as an NFL prospect not long ago.

[ArgoRavi]

Swayze is out with a groin injury, right? Those are always injuries that nag and you never know when it's going to heal.

Especially for a kicker. Wasn't it mentioned a few days ago that Waters is now on the nine-game injured list?

[Will]

That is correct, Ravi, but isn't there also the option that allows a team to take a few players off that injured list early?

[ArgoRavi]

That is correct, Ravi, but isn't there also the option that allows a team to take a few players off that injured list early?

You can take one player off the nine-game injured list early in each half of the season IIRC.

[argolio]

I missed the game as I was bringing my wife home from the hospital (she's OK now) and then attended the annual neighbourhood block party last night. Next Saturday I'm taking my youngest son to Europe and won't be back until the Labour Day weekend. I'll be checking in from time-to-time through the internet so make sure you keep the Argos on the straight-and-narrow to the Grey Cup with your great advice until I get back.Glad your wife is okay, and we'll give you completely unbiased, unemotional reports while you're away!

[argotom]

Since I came back from vacation, I read how Medlock got released from Carolina. I wonder what the chances are of getting him or is he strictly NFL focused?

[Will]

I think that depends Tom. It depends on how far Swayze is away from his return because I don't know if Medlock would come up here if it is going to be short-term.

[ArgoRavi]

I remember reading an article about a year ago in which Medlock said that he is done with football completely if he did not make it in the NFL last year.

[AngeloV]

Regardless of who is available, the Argos need to seriously look at the kicking game while Waters is injured. I don't have faith in Pre at this time, and would hate to lose games due to the kicking game. Waters is an import, so there is no reason why another import can't be brought in.

[argotom]

I agree even if Waters remains on the DL for another 5 games as Pre with both FG and Punting is inconsistent at best, we need to find a replacement. Is there such a short term fix out there? Please not Giancola or a Dales variety.

[Will]

Where is Sandro hanging around these days? Would he be an upgrade?

[ArgoRavi]

Where is Sandro hanging around these days? Would he be an upgrade?

IMO, Sandro is as good of a FG kicker as there is. He said last year that he has been working on his punting on his own. It is hard to believe that one of the most (the most?) accurate FG kicker in CFL history can't find work.

[AngeloV]

IMO, Sandro is as good of a FG kicker as there is. He said last year that he has been working on his punting on his own. It is hard to believe that one of the most (the most?) accurate FG kicker in CFL history can't find work.

I would definitely bring him in for a look.

[argonaut11xx]

Looking at making our punting game better, while dealing with a 2nd string QB starting and a 2nd string(rookie) RB starting would be a prudent move.

While many folks are high on the Argo's 2nd string RB (from his pre-season performance), what about bringing back Rigg's, ???...IMO inexperience at both those slots is a huge defict to overcome, and at least Riggs would bring a "veteran" presence to the RB position...hopefully helping Harris or Collaros....

[ArgoRavi]

Looking at making our punting game better, while dealing with a 2nd string QB starting and a 2nd string(rookie) RB starting would be a prudent move.

While many folks are high on the Argo's 2nd string RB (from his pre-season performance), what about bringing back Rigg's, ???...IMO inexperience at both those slots is a huge defict to overcome, and at least Riggs would bring a "veteran" presence to the RB position...hopefully helping Harris or Collaros....

Steele has to be the next one up as he beat Riggs out for the backup job. I have no problem bringing Riggs back to backup Steele if Riggs is willing to return.

[Midnight Blue]

I agree Steele has the job, since he won it in TC. Also agree Riggs Jr. should be invited back as a back-up, if he's interested.

Also, it seemed to me that Pre's punts were getting better and longer as the game (on TV) wore on. I'm sure his FGs will improve too as time goes on. It's not like he just fell off a truck. Though De Angelis would look good in Double Blue too.

[argotom]

The one obvious down side with Sandro, he lacks distance on both sides.

[Midnight Blue]

The one obvious down side with Sandro, he lacks distance on both sides.


I didn't know that.

I don't mean to be a dick, but it may explain his present unemployment.

[gilthethrill]

I was on the Blue Bomber fan forum yesterday & there was backlash about Cleyon Laing (there was a photo of him squatting over a laid out Pierce) apparently taunting him...I may have seen part of that on TV Friday night. Did anyone else witness it? Does Laing have character issues or is he just a bit high strung?

[ArgoGabe22]

I was on the Blue Bomber fan forum yesterday & there was backlash about Cleyon Laing (there was a photo of him squatting over a laid out Pierce) apparently taunting him...I may have seen part of that on TV Friday night. Did anyone else witness it? Does Laing have character issues or is he just a bit high strung?

I think he had a few penalties in his college career. There's even an article from the Indianapolis Star titled "Cleyon Laing's foolish penalty sinks Iowa State". I remember he was called for spearing vs the Als at varsity.

[Wobbler]

The incident in question happens at the 3:00 mark in the official highlights video (http://www.cfl.ca/video/index/id/86567/autostart/1). It certainly appears that Laing runs over after Pierce has been sacked and says a few things. Not very classy.

[Stevoman]

The incident in question happens at the 3:00 mark in the official highlights video (http://www.cfl.ca/video/index/id/86567/autostart/1). It certainly appears that Laing runs over after Pierce has been sacked and says a few things. Not very classy.
Yeah I saw that during the game and wasn't impressed but its something that happens on nearly every play, especially bigger ones. Not condoning it but I've seen a lot worse.

[ArgoRavi]

Yeah I saw that during the game and wasn't impressed but its something that happens on nearly every play, especially bigger ones. Not condoning it but I've seen a lot worse.

Like it or not - and I don't care for it - taunting happens all of the time in the game today. The only thing that would make this worse than your "normal" taunting is if Laing did it knowing that Pierce was injured and I doubt that he knew that although one could argue that he should have assumed that Pierce was hurt given Buck's injury history. I don't see this as any reason for Bombers fans to get up on any kind of higher moral ground.

[Wobbler]

I accept the occasional taunt after a player has made an exceptional play, but running over to taunt someone who was sacked by your teammate, while you were 5m away? That can't continue.