October 4, 2013: Hamilton Tiger-Cats vs. Toronto Argonauts

[T-Bone]

http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/ham.png vs. http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/tor.png

Week 15
Friday, October 4, 2013 at 7:00pm EDT.
Rogers Centre. Toronto, ON.

TV: TSN (http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/feature/?id=508)
Video Webcast: Mobile TV (http://www.tsn.ca/mobiletv/) - ESPN3 (http://cfl.ca/page/us-broadcast-schedule)
Team Radio HAM: CHML 900 (http://www.900chml.com/Sports/TicatsNation.aspx)/Y108 ROCKS (http://www.y108.ca/) - TOR: TSN Radio 1050 (http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/feature/?fid=43622)
Audio Webcast: HAM: Here (http://player.900chml.com/) - TOR: Here (http://www.tsn.ca/Toronto/listen/)
Satellite Radio: SiriusXM (http://www.siriusxm.ca/sports-schedules/cfl/)

Depth Charts: HAM: Here (http://www.ticats.ca/page/2013-depth-charts-game-notes-stats) - TOR: Here (http://www.argonauts.ca/depthchart/list/team/7/year/2013)

Ticket Info: Here (http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?1999-Save-30-on-Toronto-Argonauts-Tickets-!!!!!&p=31437&viewfull=1#post31437) and Here (http://www.argonauts.ca/page/single-game-tickets) or at Rogers Centre Gate 9 Box Office (http://www.rogerscentre.com/events/tickets.jsp).

Pre-Game: Gate 11 Tailgate Party Starting at 5:00pm

Post-Game: Shoeless Joe's at 276 King Street West (https://maps.google.ca/maps?q=276+King+St.+W.&hnear=276+King+St+W,+Toronto,+Toronto+Division,+On tario+M5V+3C6&gl=ca&t=m&z=16)

Reminder: Purolator Tackle Hunger: Bring a non-perishable food item and get your photo taken with the Grey Cup!

http://www.argofans.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=354&d=1380811033

Post-Game Update: No Comeback to be Had, Argos Fall 33-19 to Ticats (http://www.argonauts.ca/article/recap-argos-vs-ticats-week-15)

[mchesher03]

been looking forward to this one for a month now....

basically I feel like a W on Friday effectively clinches first for the Argos. mathematically not quite but effectively, yes.

should be a fun one

[Mulder]

been looking forward to this one for a month now....

basically I feel like a W on Friday effectively clinches first for the Argos. mathematically not quite but effectively, yes.

should be a fun one

Even Mathematically it clinches first.

If we win we hold 8 point lead over the Ticats, and have the tie breaker with 4 games left.

[Will]

Ravi explained this yesterday, but a victory against Hamilton in itself does not clinch first place for the Argonauts. It is true that if the Argos defeat the Tiger-Cats on Friday that it prevents the Tiger-Cats from winning first place, however the Alouettes are 5-8 and there is still a scenario that they could still win the division.

[Mulder]

Ravi explained this yesterday, but a victory against Hamilton in itself does not clinch first place for the Argonauts. It is true that if the Argos defeat the Tiger-Cats on Friday that it prevents the Tiger-Cats from winning first place, however the Alouettes are 5-8 and there is still a scenario that they could still win the division.

Sure, Als have to win out, and Argos have to lose out and lose by more than 21 points vs. We play WPG twice. If we lose to WPG twice in a row we may as well throw in the towel.

[Will]

Sure, Als have to win out, and Argos have to lose out and lose by more than 21 points vs. We play WPG twice. If we lose to WPG twice in a row we may as well throw in the towel.

Oh agreed!

[mchesher03]

also - i think we win this one. Although we are due for a 'good hank' showing given he's looked pretty bad as of late, I think the Argos are coming together well right now - running game looked good on Saturday, Zach is making plays in the latter half of the game and our pass D is looking good (especially on the back end). Although Colclough struggled with Fred Stamps - I'm more lenient on this given Stamps is one of the best in the league and Coclough is relatively new. Hopefully he bounces back well next game (that halfback slot on Lawrence's side has been a revolving door this year so far).


Will we see more lefavour given hank's struggles?g to struggled with Stamps

[Rich]

Sure, Als have to win out, and Argos have to lose out and lose by more than 21 points vs. We play WPG twice. If we lose to WPG twice in a row we may as well throw in the towel.

WPG is not that much worse than HAM or MTL. I fully expect us to win all our remaining games.

[Will]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Argos&amp;src=hash">#Argos</a> 1/2 Chad Owens (ribs) practised last week and will again this week, but will be evaluated before Friday</p>&mdash; Matthew Scianitti (@TSNScianitti) <a href="https://twitter.com/TSNScianitti/statuses/384741296817967104">September 30, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Argos&amp;src=hash">#Argos</a> 2/2 John Chiles needed 10 stitches 2close cut between index finger&amp;thumb SAT.He caught passes underhanded.&quot;Ill try 2play(vs <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Ticats&amp;src=hash">#Ticats</a>)&quot;</p>&mdash; Matthew Scianitti (@TSNScianitti) <a href="https://twitter.com/TSNScianitti/statuses/384742183825190912">September 30, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[AngeloV]

WPG is not that much worse than HAM or MTL.

Oh...I beg to differ...Winnipeg to me is as bad as the late 80's Art Schlister QB'd Ottawa Rough Riders. It doesn't get much worse than that.

[Will]

The 1988 Ottawa Rough Riders were particularly putrid! They went 2-16 and scored 278 points (15.4 PFG) and gave up 618 points (34.3 PAG). The Argos were privileged enough to play them 4 times that season and went 4-0 winning by a combined score of 176-28.

The Blue Bombers may finish 2-16. The PF-PA ratio may not be as lopsided as the '88 Rough Riders, but that doesn't make the '13 Bombers any less putrid of a football team.

[AngeloV]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Argos&src=hash">#Argos</a> 1/2 Chad Owens (ribs) practised last week and will again this week, but will be evaluated before Friday</p>— Matthew Scianitti (@TSNScianitti) <a href="https://twitter.com/TSNScianitti/statuses/384741296817967104">September 30, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Argos&src=hash">#Argos</a> 2/2 John Chiles needed 10 stitches 2close cut between index finger&thumb SAT.He caught passes underhanded."Ill try 2play(vs <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Ticats&src=hash">#Ticats</a>)"</p>— Matthew Scianitti (@TSNScianitti) <a href="https://twitter.com/TSNScianitti/statuses/384742183825190912">September 30, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That likely explains why Chiles had such a rough game on Saturday. It sure looked to me like his head wasn't entirely in the game.

[Will]

Isn't the hand one of the worst places to have to get stitches?

[gilthethrill]

Isn't the hand one of the worst places to have to get stitches?

I can think of at least one other place on the male anatomy that is worse...

Seriously though, I don't think there will be any need for a come from behind victory Friday night...

[ArgoRavi]

WPG is not that much worse than HAM or MTL.

I disagree. The Bombers' offence is one of the worst that we have seen in a while. Their talent level is simply not at the level of other teams in the league. Their defence is good enough that they can steal the odd game here or there but that team needs an almost complete overhaul at the end of the season.

Hamilton has a potent offence and Montreal has a stellar defence. Both of those teams are also much better coached than Winnipeg IMO.

[jerrym]

I disagree. The Bombers' offence is one of the worst that we have seen in a while. Their talent level is simply not at the level of other teams in the league. Their defence is good enough that they can steal the odd game here or there but that team needs an almost complete overhaul at the end of the season.

Hamilton has a potent offence and Montreal has a stellar defence. Both of those teams are also much better coached than Winnipeg IMO.

Agreed. However, I would say that Saturday proves that the Bad Henry, despite his best stats ever over the season, is still lurking around.

[Fungi]

Tim Burkes coaching career...
1977-1979 University of Minnesota
1980 Gardner-Webb University
1981 Appalachian State University
1982-1985 University of South Dakota
1986-1988 University of North Dakota
1989-1994 Ball State University
1995-1996 University of Wyoming
1997-1999 Purdue University
2000-2001 University of Kansas
2003 University of Tennessee
2004 Indiana State University
2005-2007 Calgary Stampeders
2008-2010 Montreal Alouettes
2011-present Bummers
Winnipeg fans deserve better.

[AngeloV]

Tim Burkes coaching career...
1977-1979 University of Minnesota
1980 Gardner-Webb University
1981 Appalachian State University
1982-1985 University of South Dakota
1986-1988 University of North Dakota
1989-1994 Ball State University
1995-1996 University of Wyoming
1997-1999 Purdue University
2000-2001 University of Kansas
2003 University of Tennessee
2004 Indiana State University
2005-2007 Calgary Stampeders
2008-2010 Montreal Alouettes
2011-present Bummers
Winnipeg fans deserve better.

I don't what you mean by posting this. Looks like a pretty good resume to me...and as has been mentioned, he has had a lot of success as a D-Coordinator in the CFL. Not all good coordinators make good head coaches, but the way Joe Mack ran that team, Burke was simply put in a no win situation.

[Rich]

I disagree. The Bombers' offence is one of the worst that we have seen in a while. Their talent level is simply not at the level of other teams in the league. Their defence is good enough that they can steal the odd game here or there but that team needs an almost complete overhaul at the end of the season.

Hamilton has a potent offence and Montreal has a stellar defence. Both of those teams are also much better coached than Winnipeg IMO.

You may be right. But I still think we're the best team in the league, and as such, I expect to us to win every game from here on in.

Get yer swagger on, Argo fans. Fans of other Toronto teams will be envious.

[LLB997]

i am hoping it will be a large turnout. Alot of ticat fans have been shut out of the tiny digs in guelph and may be chomping at the bit to invade Hogtown via the GO train. This record setting Argos club deserve a packed house this friday.come one come all.

[1argoholic]

We need to start faster and have waters actually get the ball bewteen the uprights as I know he can. No more of this 4th quarter comeback stuff. I'd love to see us run over Hamilton.

[mint83]

i am hoping it will be a large turnout. Alot of ticat fans have been shut out of the tiny digs in guelph and may be chomping at the bit to invade Hogtown via the GO train. This record setting Argos club deserve a packed house this friday.come one come all.

Yes, they do deserve a packed house. How can Toronto not love this underdog of the city's sport scene? They are shut out of their home by corporate bullies and go on to win four thrilling road games. Regular seasons in any sport don't get better than this. And it's being done with exciting players developed within the organization like Collaros, Chiles, Ball and Torontonians Durie and Black. Hopefully some among the big TV audiences that have tuned in the past three Saturdays will make their way to the dome on Friday.

[Argos4Life]

Looking at Ticketmaster today and it looks like there will be a very nice crowd for the game.

[bluto]

Looking at Ticketmaster today and it looks like there will be a very nice crowd for the game.

i dunno... looks like quite a few unsold seats yet. http://www.ticketmaster.ca/toronto-argonauts-vs-hamilton-tigercats-toronto-ontario-10-04-2013/event/10004AA2A6D55339?artistid=891711&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=8&tm_link=artist_msg-0_10004AA2A6D55339

hopefully we get fair weather and a good walkup. this team deserves it.

[flafson]

i dunno... looks like quite a few unsold seats yet. http://www.ticketmaster.ca/toronto-argonauts-vs-hamilton-tigercats-toronto-ontario-10-04-2013/event/10004AA2A6D55339?artistid=891711&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=8&tm_link=artist_msg-0_10004AA2A6D55339

hopefully we get fair weather and a good walkup. this team deserves it.

Everything that is light blue is pretty much sold out, those that are dark blue are 60-70% sold, so it looks like a good crowd IMO.

[AngeloV]

I bought an extra ticket for the game today using the promo code on this link: http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?2129-30-Off-Argo-Tickets!

It's a really good deal, I ended up paying $10 less that what ticketmaster would have charged me without the promo code (Outrageous $7.50 per ticket processing cost is taken out with the promo and I paid $1:50 to print my own ticket).
2 seats away from my seat, so hopefully the 2 people sitting beside me, won't mind moving down a seat each.

[argotom]

Surprisingly, I heard a commercial on radio 1010 today for the game.

[Deerkeeper]

I just hope all the people buying tickets aren't Ticat fans. Not that they aren't welcome (maybe) but it is suppose to be the Argos home game.

[gilthethrill]

Darn that commitment to employment.......HD TV at my place will have to suffice.

[ArgoGabe22]

Darn that commitment to employment.......HD TV at my place will have to suffice.

Had to exchange my tickets for this one for another game. I'm more needed coaching HS football than in the stands. Sorry guys. Hopefully I can sneak an earpiece in if 1050 decides to actually broadcast the game.

I'm hoping it'll be good crowd on a Friday night to prove Cox & his gang wrong.

[Argos4Life]

I just hope all the people buying tin attendance for this one.ckets aren't Ticat fans. Not that they aren't welcome (maybe) but it is suppose to be the Argos home game.

No question there will be a healthy number of Hamilton fans in the stands for this one. Should be a large turnout of
Argo faithful too.

[gilthethrill]

Had to exchange my tickets for this one for another game. I'm more needed coaching HS football than in the stands. Sorry guys. Hopefully I can sneak an earpiece in if 1050 decides to actually broadcast the game.

I'm hoping it'll be good crowd on a Friday night to prove Cox & his gang wrong.

Coach Gabe, avoid the score of the game, record it and watch it later.....PVR has been my saving grace many a time....

[flafson]

I bought an extra ticket for the game today using the promo code on this link: http://www.argofans.com/showthread.php?2129-30-Off-Argo-Tickets!

It's a really good deal, I ended up paying $10 less that what ticketmaster would have charged me without the promo code (Outrageous $7.50 per ticket processing cost is taken out with the promo and I paid $1:50 to print my own ticket).
2 seats away from my seat, so hopefully the 2 people sitting beside me, won't mind moving down a seat each.

If you talk with the Argos directly on the phone they will waive the processing fee and won't charge anything when they email you the tickets. Not sure about accepting that promo code though, might worth a shot to call and ask. I was sure that code expired like a month ago.

[AngeloV]

If you talk with the Argos directly on the phone they will waive the processing fee and won't charge anything when they email you the tickets. Not sure about accepting that promo code though, might worth a shot to call and ask. I was sure that code expired like a month ago.

I bought an extra ticket from the Argos office for the first game and this is the 2nd time I've used the promo code. I actually pay about $1 less with the promo code...which is no big deal, but sometimes I find getting my rep (I think they changed reps on me) on the phone to be a challenge. I switched to the promo code when I didn't get a call back for the B.C. home game.

[flafson]

It's funny though, i'm not sure it's really 30% for all the seats, i checked one or two and it was like 10%, maybe because i chose the cheap seats, who knows.

[Tau Ceti]

It's funny though, i'm not sure it's really 30% for all the seats, i checked one or two and it was like 10%, maybe because i chose the cheap seats, who knows.

I don't think the very cheapest seats are available at all for these offers.

At this moment Ticketmaster is down when you try to look at what's available. I hope this is a very temporary glitch.

[flafson]

It worked fine like half an hour ago.

[Wobbler]

The Depth Chart (http://cfl.uploads.mrx.ca/league/pdf/en/depth/2013/2013_RegSeasonGame14atHAMOct4103725.pdf) has been posted.

Some interesting moves:
- Owens has been activated from the IR and replaces Chiles, who goes on the IR (legitimately)
- Morley is healthy, so Robinson goes back on the PR
- Jeff Johnson is healthy and Tyler Holmes has been added to the 46 for the first time, so Jones and JFG have been displaced to the IR and PR respectively
- Tripp is healthy, so Williams is placed on the IR

[Ballstothewall]

i dunno... looks like quite a few unsold seats yet. http://www.ticketmaster.ca/toronto-argonauts-vs-hamilton-tigercats-toronto-ontario-10-04-2013/event/10004AA2A6D55339?artistid=891711&majorcatid=10004&minorcatid=8&tm_link=artist_msg-0_10004AA2A6D55339

hopefully we get fair weather and a good walkup. this team deserves it.

Talked to my ticket rep on Tues, and they had over 24,000 sold. He said could be a bigger crowd then the opener

[T-Bone]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>Coming to the game this Friday? Don't forget your non-perishable food item for <a href="https://twitter.com/PurolatorTH">@PurolatorTH</a> &amp; get a picture with the Grey Cup! <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Argos&amp;src=hash">#Argos</a></p>&mdash; Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos/statuses/385789395795988481">October 3, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[mchesher03]

some other thoughts i had this morning

- is Hank on a short leash on Friday? we've seen him get pulled last week and at other times this year.
- hopefully kack can keep up the roll he was on in Edmonton - thought he was running strong and adds a dimension to our offence that we definitely need
- interesting to see how much / how little owens is used
- guessing Inman moves back to Chiles spot - like to see him have a big game there
- thought our D-Line played well at edmonton - need that to continue, hank is getting up there and imo isn't very effective on the run with passing and even taking off.

our LB and Secondary is playing at high level IMO. didn't think i'd say that this year (esp. about the secondary) given all hte personnel changes

[ArgoRavi]

- is Hank on a short leash on Friday? we've seen him get pulled last week and at other times this year.

He seems to be at a similar point in his career as he was two years ago at around this time when he made his final start ever for the Stamps when they visited SkyDome. He had a disastrous outing that night which all but spelled the end of his Calgary career. He needs to rebound on Friday night to restore the confidence that Hamilton fans have had in him. Is he on a shorter leash? He might be given his performance over the last couple of weeks especially. The jury is still very much out on Dan LeFevour however and I still think that Burris, by far, gives the Ticats their best chance to win.

[Ron]

Talked to my ticket rep on Tues, and they had over 24,000 sold. He said could be a bigger crowd then the opener

But that would imply that Cox, McCown and the rest are all wrong that the day of the week does not matter for a football game.

Braley can say to MLSE ... "see, play us on the weekend and you'll have a consistently packed house"

[Deerkeeper]

Looks like Ray is going to dress, but will he be seeing any playing time? http://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/cfl/argos-qb-ricky-ray-suiting-up-vs-tiger-cats-1.1894735

[Wobbler]

The depth chart listed Gale as the #3 QB when I first looked at it this morning. Looks like someone did a stealth edit.

[ArgoRavi]

Looks like Ray is going to dress, but will he be seeing any playing time? http://www.cbc.ca/sports/football/cfl/argos-qb-ricky-ray-suiting-up-vs-tiger-cats-1.1894735

I would be shocked if Ray does play on Friday. The only way I see that happening is if Collaros and Harris are both injured.

[Wobbler]

It is late in the season and we've qualified for the playoffs. We need to stay aggressive, but can afford to be a bit cautious with key players.

I think Owens will start tomorrow at SB and that Guy will stay on the 42 to return kicks. Predicted scratches: Washington, Tyler Holmes, Bryant and English.

[AngeloV]

It is late in the season and we've qualified for the playoffs. We need to stay aggressive, but can afford to be a bit cautious with key players.

I think Owens will start tomorrow at SB and that Guy will stay on the 42 to return kicks. Predicted scratches: Washington, Tyler Holmes, Bryant and English.

You might see Bryant in the line-up over Guy. They may want to ease Owens into the line-up as a part time receiver while also returning kicks. Also an opportunity to get Bryant some game action should he be needed later in the year.

[gilthethrill]

Frank Ziccarelli reports Tyler Holmes is making his CFL debut tonight.

[flafson]

Frank Ziccarelli reports Tyler Holmes is making his CFL debut tonight.

Sweet, was he even on our PR?

[gilthethrill]

Sweet, was he even on our PR?

Briefly after he signed, then quickly elevated to the roster....he may have spent a week on IR too. Joel Reinders is making his Ti-Cat debut tonight as well according to excellent Hamilton beat writer Drew Edwards.

[mchesher03]

Funny with Reinders - got me to thinking how many recnetly many players have gone from the Argos to Hamilton (whether cut, traded, signed there, etc.) - Reinders, McCullough, Isaac, Eiben whereas very few have gone from the tabbies to Toronto (Jonathan Hood is the only one that comes to mind off the top of my head)

not sure I have much more of a read on it than just an observation.

[paulwoods13]

Colclough is another this season who came from Hamilton to us. Not many others in recent years, though.

[mchesher03]

whos drawing primary responsibility for covering fantuz tonight? Colclough and/or Jalil Carter? I remember him having a big stats game in the opener - don't feel their WR corps beyond him is deep though should we focus on fantuz.

[AngeloV]

whos drawing primary responsibility for covering fantuz tonight? Colclough and/or Jalil Carter? I remember him having a big stats game in the opener - don't feel their WR corps beyond him is deep though should we focus on fantuz.

I would think Carter is a good match up. Fantuz is a big, physical receiver, but not a burner. Carter is likely our most physical DB.

[Wobbler]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Argos&amp;src=hash">#Argos</a> scratches T Holmes, T Washington, R Bryant, A English. <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Ticats&amp;src=hash">#Ticats</a> scratches M Beswick, L Congi, C Walker, C Marshall. <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23CFL&amp;src=hash">#CFL</a></p>&mdash; Mike Hogan (@tsnmikehogan) <a href="https://twitter.com/tsnmikehogan/statuses/386249847302389761">October 4, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Nailed it.

[Deerkeeper]

Watched Ray throw the ball during warmups and it didn't appear that he was throwing with alot of strength. Maybe that's by design but if that is any indication, I doubt he will be playing.

The place is filling up.pretty good. Should be a good turn out.

[gilthethrill]

Great....golf on TSN.....I expect the 1st quarter will be lost at least......nice....

[Tau Ceti]

I'm at the pub and thankfully they've got TSN2 where it's playing. What a boneheaded arrangement.

[Bleeds Double Blue]

It seems a little strange for me to see the Argos in their blue unis. Not the start I wanted to see but it's still early.

[jerrym]

Durie! 40 YAC yards demonstrates why he is the YAC yard leader. Can you imagine the kind of runner (and Canadian too) he would have been if he had not broke his leg and been told he would never walk again, let alone play football?

[jerrym]

Interception Colcough! Bad Henry is back.

[jerrym]

Waters seems to be limping slightly after that improvised 22 yard kick following a high snap.

[jerrym]

22-3. I almost hope the Argos lose because they have to learn that they cannot depend on second half comebacks all the time, especially in the playoffs.

[1argoholic]

Yet another horrible first half. You can't expect every team to fold like a cheap suit in the second half. Play calling sucked again as did Collaros. Hopefully the second coming of some Argo fans Flutie will pull another horseshoe from his arse. It's terrible watching these first half's.
Time for the coaches to get creative.

[Cordo]

Are they going to this again?

[jerrym]

The crowd looks pretty large compared to usual. Any word or guess from the stands on attendance?

[Tau Ceti]

Will the real Zach Collaros please stand up? Honestly, I also think the team might benefit from the loss so they don't assume miracles always happen. Burris seems calm and cool. I don't think he's throwing this away.

[Cordo]

Anyone else think the Argos should have went for it on that play?

[jerrym]

I don't like going for the FG on third and one. The worst that happens is Hamilton has the ball on the one if you go for it. You should also send a message that you have confidence in your offence to score from the one.

[jerrym]

The Argos make their own big Argo bounce on the blocked kick followed by Collaros TD! Could this be another second-half comeback win? Half of me wants one and half of me wants the Argos to learn that they can't always do it.

[Cordo]

Big block of the punt & TD right after. I don't know if the Argos are going to get it done but at least it's a ball game now.

[argos1873]

Big block of the punt & TD right after. I don't know if the Argos are going to get it done but at least it's a ball game now.

I don't know if the Argos are going to get it done either, but based on what's happened so far, and in the last 4 games, I'm going to gamble that they are.

And for those hoping for a loss, you do realize that our backup QB is playing and we are winning games hook or crook, and Ray will be back next week, so there's no need for "a lesson".

[Cordo]

Don't know how Watkins gets the facemask call when Fantuz was the one doing it.

[jerrym]

My apologies to Swayze for doubting his field goal kicking ability - 4 in a row.

[1argoholic]

I hope Ray is ready for next week.
This game has been a huge pile of crap. Fantuz has Watkins looking out of his ear hole with a facemask and Watkins gets nailed for brushing Fantuz's.

I could see this coming from 100 miles away.

[jerrym]

Facemask on Collaros during sack. These need to be called no matter what the score or time left as the risk of injury is too great. The ref was right beside the play and could hardly have missed it.

[larz-7]

Facemask on Collaros during sack. These need to be called no matter what the score or time left as the risk of injury is too great. The ref was right beside the play and could hardly have missed it.
my guess it wouldn't of mattered if it was anytime of the game it would of been missed that and doesnt central command have control to over see stuff in the last 3 minutes

[Cordo]

The Argos playing one half came back to haunt them. Collaros has done a good job holding the fort in Ray's absence (4-1, tough to complain about that) but it will be good to get the more consistent Ray back on the field, if it turns out that he is ready. Milanovich should have been more aggressive on that drive on the goal line, why not take the gamble & go for the touchdown? Penalties on defense killed us, got to be more disciplined next week against the Ticats.

Also showing poor form at home isn't good. This Argos team seems to save their best for the road & their worst for home.

[1argoholic]

The only way that we have any shot of winning a Grey Cup is with Ray behind centre. Collaros has been ok but he's no Ricky Ray. Hopefully Ray is ready for next week and we don't crap away another first half of ball. I'm sick of it. Collaros will eventually be very good but right now he's ok. Too many two and outs and picks. Lets not fill his head so he ends up like the second coming of Bishop. All the talent but no brain for the game.

Looked the Argos of last year with a penalty on every play. Have to admit this game pissed me right off.

[Cordo]

Fantuz has Watkins looking out of his ear hole with a facemask and Watkins gets nailed for brushing Fantuz's.

Didn't like that call either. I guess Watkins assumed that the refs were letting things go when they were ignoring what Fantuz was doing.

[Tau Ceti]

And for those hoping for a loss, you do realize that our backup QB is playing and we are winning games hook or crook, and Ray will be back next week, so there's no need for "a lesson".

I was hoping for an Argos win as much as anybody when the game started. But when you get to your fifth straight game down more than -10 at the half there are indeed lessons to be learned. First, obviously, you need to show up at the start. Second, not everyone is going to let you walk over them. A determined Burris can beat us. He showed that tonight. It wasn't phenomenal but it was workmanlike. These same Ticats may be the difference between getting to the Grey Cup or not and I'm glad to lose to them now so as to better prepare later. Ray coming back doesn't change anything. He could come back for a week and have an injury flare up again. (Remember, this year he's had both a lower and upper body injury.)

Some silver linings: Swayze Waters and Andre Durie. Regarding Waters, he proves again the old axiom that doing the same thing right is the only way to atone for doing it wrong. Durie was just awesome on yards after catch -- four yards or forty yards, he gets it done.

[Tau Ceti]

And a special note: Argonauts.ca reporting attendance of 28,467. This is solid. I was hoping they'd be above 30,000 but it's still a good turnout. Thanks Ticat fans.

[jerrym]

The attendance was 28,467. Obviously playing Hamilton helped but so did having the game on Friday night, providing further evidence that moving into a new home where they have much better control of their game dates is vital to the future of the Argos.
http://www.argonauts.ca/schedule/year/2013/7

[ArgoRavi]

my guess it wouldn't of mattered if it was anytime of the game it would of been missed that and doesnt central command have control to over see stuff in the last 3 minutes

The Command Centre cannot call facemask penalties, regardless of how obvious they are.

[ArgoRavi]

I was hoping for an Argos win as much as anybody when the game started. But when you get to your fifth straight game down more than -10 at the half there are indeed lessons to be learned. First, obviously, you need to show up at the start. Second, not everyone is going to let you walk over them. A determined Burris can beat us. He showed that tonight. It wasn't phenomenal but it was workmanlike. These same Ticats may be the difference between getting to the Grey Cup or not and I'm glad to lose to them now so as to better prepare later. Ray coming back doesn't change anything. He could come back for a week and have an injury flare up again. (Remember, this year he's had both a lower and upper body injury.)

Some silver linings: Swayze Waters and Andre Durie. Regarding Waters, he proves again the old axiom that doing the same thing right is the only way to atone for doing it wrong. Durie was just awesome on yards after catch -- four yards or forty yards, he gets it done.

I like much of what you have said above, especially what is in bold. I didn't have a good feeling about this game from the time that I saw the schedule. Coming back home after a successful four-game road trip, the Argos were ripe for a letdown. On top of that, you had to figure that Hamilton and Burris would play much better tonight after their stinker last week. The Argos also have gotten into some bad habits lately, even though they have been winning, such as too many avoidable penalties and slow starts. I see no reason why this can't be the final loss of the season for Toronto but I think and hope that this game serves as a good wake-up call for them heading into the final stages of the season. They certainly won't be taking the Ticats lightly if they face them in the playoffs either. The third consecutive home loss is concerning but the Argos simply haven't played that well at home for the last few years. Of course, they will have to find a way to turn that around, just as they did late last year, to get back to the Grey Cup.

[larz-7]

there was some bad calls on us that kept hamilton drives alive but all in all we were not there .i like zack but he is not there yet an other year under ricky ray would help big time.brandon issac proved his point tonight .next week we spoil his thanks giving dinner.we were humbled tonite and it was only a matter of time.

[ArgoRavi]

there was some bad calls on us that kept hamilton drives alive but all in all we were not there .i like zack but he is not there yet an other year under ricky ray would help big time.brandon issac proved his point tonight .next week we spoil his thanks giving dinner.we were humbled tonite and it was only a matter of time.

Collaros has done his job as the backup QB but it is quite clear that Ricky Ray gives this team its best chance to win. One area where hopefully Ray can help immediately is getting the Argos back to starting fast in games.

[argos1873]

I was hoping for an Argos win as much as anybody when the game started. But when you get to your fifth straight game down more than -10 at the half there are indeed lessons to be learned. First, obviously, you need to show up at the start. Second, not everyone is going to let you walk over them. A determined Burris can beat us. He showed that tonight. It wasn't phenomenal but it was workmanlike. These same Ticats may be the difference between getting to the Grey Cup or not and I'm glad to lose to them now so as to better prepare later. Ray coming back doesn't change anything. He could come back for a week and have an injury flare up again. (Remember, this year he's had both a lower and upper body injury.)


Yes Ray coming back does mean something. First Collaros has been CRAP in the first 30 minutes of those games, and that in itself has lead to opponents putting points on the board. Ray has been solid from the beginning of each of his starts. When your O controls the ball, the opponents O has less time to put the ball in the endzone. Ray's O controls the ball. Ray's team doesn't need a lesson from Collaros' team.

Second, if you think a Collaros led team has been gliding through the first half because they think it will get done in the second, is pure baloney. No pro football team operates that way. They were out played due to lack of talent or performance, not due to a belief that they will somehow magically come back in the 4th quarter. There's no lesson to be learned from losing this game. Its not like they didn't try in the first half, they were just outplayed.

[larz-7]

there was some bad calls on us that kept hamilton drives alive but all in all we were not there .i like zack but he is not there yet an other year under ricky ray would help big time.brandon issac proved his point tonight .next week we spoil his thanks giving dinner.we were humbled tonite and it was only a matter of time.

[gilthethrill]

I really thought the Argo D would exploit a weak and banged up Hamilton O line but proved not to be the case. Andre Proulx and his crew are normally Public Enemy #1 on the TiCats forum, but maybe not this week. Can't come from behind every week, but this Argo team is still only 1 win away from appearing in the Grey Cup. Ray will repay this loss on Thanks Giving.

[AngeloV]

Just back from the game....

It was evident from the first drive the Argos were facing "Good Henry" tonight, and a slow start was not going to be good enough.

Offence was not good tonight. Argos should have run Kackert and used Durie more than they did.
Zach did a great job filling in, but I'm ready for the return of Ray...not that I'm blaming Zach, but Ray is Ray..makes everyone around him better, especially the o-line.
I still think the Argos missed a great opportunity to get Romby Bryant into the line-up tonight. Owens could have used another game or at least shared time to get himself into sync.
Not a great game for the defence tonight, but you're not going to win a lot of games when your only TD drive on offence is 1 yard.

On the bright side, nice bounce back game for Swayze Waters.

[Antwon]

5 games with no offense in the first half falls on hc and oc.
2nd and short late in the game and they call a qb draw for a loss! Brutal play call, use the running back!
We need discipline on defense in a hurry!

[ArgoFan1]

I think the major downfall was complete dedication to the passing game, which was not working. Every time Kackert ran for 7 yards, you should give it to him again right away. He only needs to get two more for you to have an easy third down. All the plays where I knew they should have handed it to Kackert, Collaros was in trouble. A simple hand off keep you from being sacked. The really annoying thing was kicking that field goal from the one yard line. It's not like this was a crucial game and you take the points you can. This team pretty well has first place locked up and that was a good time to hone their red zone skills, and especially in a half where they couldn't get anything done. I was one of those boooing loudly when I saw that coming.
While the defnce did get beat on long passes, I was at least glad to see them actually using their arms to tackle instead of the running and bumping into an opponent hoping to knock him down that I've seen too much of lately.
I will be in Guelph next week and am hoping to see Ricky Ray back on the field and this team begin their march to Grey Cup victory right now. It's time to ramp it up.

[Antwon]

I agree totally. Coach M has to pull his head out of his a$$ and run the ball more.
Kackert was a key in last weeks win.

[ArgoRavi]

I agree totally. Coach M has to pull his head out of his a$$ and run the ball more.
Kackert was a key in last weeks win.

Actually, from what I understand, it is up to the QB on many plays to go with the run option to Kackert or not. The QB has to read the defence correctly and that will dictate whether Kackert gets the ball or not. It may very well have been the case on Friday night that Collaros did not make the right reads.

[BATKINSON001]

I was there, too many penalties cost of dearly. I really do not like those refs... We had some good moments but the penalties hurt us too much to capitalize on them.

[Will]

I want to preface this by saying that I am in no way pleased by the way tonight turned out, but I'm also not going to lose much sleep over it either. The reason for this is because we have a bit of a cushion in the east right now that allows for the stinker like tonight's game. Now if we lose next week then I will probably be a little more concerned. Hamilton probably needed this game more than we did, but that just sounds like excuse making, which I prefer not to do.

I honestly thought we had a shot at coming back when the defense came out great on that first Hamilton drive and then we blocked the punt and scored. I thought the momentum had switched there. But, credit to Steinauer he devised a very good defensive game plan in my opinion. The Argos had trouble handling the blitz and Hamilton's defenders read the short screens effectively for the most part. Kackert had some descent gains, but was also stuffed a few times.

The defense wasn't great. Henry made some amazing plays today and it always seemed like the Tiger-Cats got that extra yard they needed to make it second or short or just got separation at the last moment to make the key catch. I was also concerned about the major fouls that they took in key situations in the 4th quarter. That more or less sealed the game for Hamilton.

Waters had a nice bounce-back game and Guy had a nice return, but the Hamilton returner also was able to bust loose a few nice returns of his own.

Again to finish I'm not going to lose sleep over this game. I hope it doesn't happen again though. I'm sure both Milanovich and Jones are pissed so I expect that they will whip the team into shape next week.

[Deerkeeper]

And a special note: Argonauts.ca reporting attendance of 28,467. This is solid. I was hoping they'd be above 30,000 but it's still a good turnout. Thanks Ticat fans.Actually, I don't think there were that many Ticat fans there. A small section behind the bench and another small group in 126 plus what was scattered around the building. If there were a thousand obvious fans there, then that may be a generous estimate. So good on Argo fans for coming out in bigger numbers.

[Argocister]

22-3. I almost hope the Argos lose because they have to learn that they cannot depend on second half comebacks all the time, especially in the playoffs.


The Argos make their own big Argo bounce on the blocked kick followed by Collaros TD! Could this be another second-half comeback win? Half of me wants one and half of me wants the Argos to learn that they can't always do it.

Hey
Jerry m are you Jedi in training? :D

[Deerkeeper]

I really thought it was a tired football team we were watching tonight. After four road games and a short week to prepare for tonight, it has to catch up to you sometime. Now with nine days between games and only a short bus ride to Guelph, I would expect a much better prepared team next Monday.

[Will]

I really thought it was a tired football team we were watching tonight. After four road games and a short week to prepare for tonight, it has to catch up to you sometime. Now with nine days between games and only a short bus ride to Guelph, I would expect a much better prepared team next Monday.

I just don't know. Four road games true, but Hamilton also played last Saturday night albeit Guelph is closer than Edmonton.

[Ron]

I was there, too many penalties cost of dearly. I really do not like those refs... We had some good moments but the penalties hurt us too much to capitalize on them.

I had an interesting time at the game. The people directly behind me were a 50'ish blind guy and a woman was with him. She described everything that was happening in the game in a very descriptive manner. She was accurate as well. Also them being Cats fans made the perspective interesting.

One thing said of note. At the end of the game he asked who the player of the 2nd half was for the Cats (he had asked at halftime about the first half) ... her reply to him was "Argo penalties."

[paulwoods13]

Actually, I don't think there were that many Ticat fans there. A small section behind the bench and another small group in 126 plus what was scattered around the building. If there were a thousand obvious fans there, then that may be a generous estimate. So good on Argo fans for coming out in bigger numbers.

There were tons of Hamilton fans in the north end of the 200 level, west side.

[paulwoods13]

Hamilton deserves full credit -- they out-game-planned us and outperformed us on both sides of the ball for three of four quarters. Their receivers consistently got open (except in Q3) and ours were almost never open. And most importantly, their o-line and d-line completely dominated ours -- that is a major cause for concern since we will almost certainly be meeting them in the playoffs. Isaac had a monster game for Hamilton, too.

Our o-line made a major adjustment in the second half -- VZ back to right tackle, Eppele to right guard and Wayne Smith to left guard. I don't know if King was hurt but my daughter was convinced he was getting beaten consistently when he was in there. It's late in the season to be making major adjustments to your o-line, but maybe they wanted to test that look out with the idea that if they go back to four NIs on the line, they can dress an extra import receiver or d-lineman. If Holmes is ready to back up, that could work -- I liked VZ at tackle the past few years, and I think Eppele might be more comfortable at RG than LG.

Morley missed a lot of playing time in the first half, with Black moving over to his spot and Gabriel at safety. The Argos used six NIs regularly on D: three linemen, the two DBs and Tonye-Tonye at LB. Often there were four NIs on the field at once. This roster flexibility is a very good thing.

The game demonstrated why "QB wins" is a ridiculous stat. To all those who said Zach needed to be kept over Ricky because "he" won four games in a row, did Zach lose last night's game? The fact is, he played quite well -- we lost because we got out-game-planned, we got dominated on both lines and we took way too many stupid penalties. Zach's play had little to do with the result, IMO.

[gilthethrill]

In each of the 5 losses this season, the Argos have not really been in those games and did not look particularly good.

[flafson]

A little bit more effort and less penalties on the 3rd and 4th quarter and we could have had that game, we just let it slip away from us.

[zontar]

SUN says there was a good atmosphere there last night, true ?

[ArgoZ]

SUN says there was a good atmosphere there last night, true ?

It was good, but the opener was better. There was definitely more Cats fans at this game which would make you think a better atmosphere, but the first half dulled the crowd.

[argotom]

It was good, but the opener was better. There was definitely more Cats fans at this game which would make you think a better atmosphere, but the first half dulled the crowd. That's true.Still overall when the joint is nearly packed and jumping it is obviously a much better place to watch.

[jerrym]

Both Argos' play and Burris's comments (that the Ticats needed this game to make up for last week and to show they can be the Argos in the playoffs) demonstrate that Hamilton wanted the game more. The Argo loss should motivate them to give a full effort from the beginning of the game next week.

[argotom]

The Cats were a better team yesterday. The offensive line had a bad game as Zach was continuously pressured and had no time to set up. I also find he is more dangerous when rolling out of the pocket instead of a drop back passer. The d-backs got burned a number of times and I cannot believe how many do not look back at the ball when defending a receiver. Turn your head.

[1argoholic]

Really sucked that Issac was all over Collaros and came back to bite Jones in the ass. I'm sure Jones wasn't thrilled.
Plenty of calls that screwed us over as well. I know we scored on the play after the blocked punt but I was sure that Ball was in with the recovered blocked ball. Fantuz face masking of Watkins was horrible and Watkins gets the flag. This officiating crew blew chunks.

[argolio]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4jGSvxCRp4

[gilthethrill]

Looking at our remaining 4 contests, this Argo team will end up with 12-13 wins.

[ArgoRavi]

Really sucked that Issac was all over Collaros and came back to bite Jones in the ass. I'm sure Jones wasn't thrilled.
Plenty of calls that screwed us over as well. I know we scored on the play after the blocked punt but I was sure that Ball was in with the recovered blocked ball. Fantuz face masking of Watkins was horrible and Watkins gets the flag. This officiating crew blew chunks.

Yes, Isaac had a good game last night, his first good game for the Ticats, but I doubt that Jones is weeping over having cut him. The Argo defence doesn't really miss him IMO.

[AngeloV]

I also find he is more dangerous when rolling out of the pocket instead of a drop back passer.

I disagree. If you look at the games the Argos won in comeback fashion, Zach seemed to have happy feet in the majority of the first halves of those games. He's a much better QB when he trusts his reads and takes off only when things aren't there. All of the TD passes in the last few games with the exception of Inman's against Calgary have come from the pocket.
Another thing bugging me is all this talk of Isaac's monster game. If they keep bringing him off the edge with Ray back there, the Argos O will have a field day.

[ArgoRavi]

I disagree. If you look at the games the Argos won in comeback fashion, Zach seemed to have happy feet in the majority of the first halves of those games. He's a much better QB when he trusts his reads and takes off only when things aren't there. All of the TD passes in the last few games with the exception of Inman's against Calgary have come from the pocket.
Another thing bugging me is all this talk of Isaac's monster game. If they keep bringing him off the edge with Ray back there, the Argos O will have a field day.

I agree with both of your points, AV, but in regards to Isaac, I also saw him waving at some Argo receivers last night after they had run by him with the ball which is probably part of the reason that he is no longer an Argo.

[gilthethrill]

I disagree. If you look at the games the Argos won in comeback fashion, Zach seemed to have happy feet in the majority of the first halves of those games. He's a much better QB when he trusts his reads and takes off only when things aren't there. All of the TD passes in the last few games with the exception of Inman's against Calgary have come from the pocket.
Another thing bugging me is all this talk of Isaac's monster game. If they keep bringing him off the edge with Ray back there, the Argos O will have a field day.

AV, not sure if anyone noticed this, but on Duries huge gain after that short pass, I could not help but notice BI following along side hesitant to get in the pack and actually make a tackle before so many YAC were gained.

[ArgoRavi]

AV, not sure if anyone noticed this, but on Duries huge gain after that short pass, I could not help but notice BI following along side hesitant to get in the pack and actually make a tackle before so many YAC were gained.

That was one of the plays that came to mind for me, Gil.

[Argo57]

Collaros has done a great job filling in but time to get Ray back in there!!
Special teams coverage continues to be soft at times giving Hamilton good field position time after time.
I'm with all of you, thought the face masking call was on Fantuz not Watkins.
The final score was actually quite flattering to the Argonauts.
This loss is a good reality check for the whole team.

[Antwon]

That was one of the plays that came to mind for me, Gil.

This would be why Jones cut him. BI had two chances to tackle Durie and didn't.
Honestly don't miss him.