October 14, 2013: Toronto Argonauts vs. Hamilton Tiger-Cats

[T-Bone]

http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/tor.png vs. http://cfl.assets.mrx.ca/shared/sked_blocks_logos/2012_2/2012_schedule_default2/ham.png

Week 16
Monday, October 14, 2013 at 4:30pm EDT.
Alumni Stadium. Guelph, ON.

TV: TSN (http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/feature/?id=508) - RDS2 HD (http://cfl.ca/schedule/year/2013/time_zone/0) - NBC Sports (http://cfl.ca/page/us-broadcast-schedule)
Video Webcast: Mobile TV (http://www.tsn.ca/mobiletv/)
Team Radio TOR: TSN Radio 1050 (http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/feature/?fid=43622) - HAM: CHML 900 (http://www.900chml.com/Sports/TicatsNation.aspx)/Y108 ROCKS (http://www.y108.ca/)
Audio Webcast: TOR: Here (http://www.tsn.ca/Toronto/listen/) - HAM: Here (http://player.900chml.com/)
Satellite Radio: SiriusXM (http://www.siriusxm.ca/sports-schedules/cfl/)

Depth Charts: TOR: Here (http://www.argonauts.ca/depthchart/list/team/7/year/2013) - HAM: Here (http://www.ticats.ca/page/2013-depth-charts-game-notes-stats)

Away Game Viewing:
http://www.argofans.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=334&d=1378729253

Post-Game Update: Battle Won: Ticats Win Game, Season-Series Over Argos (http://www.argonauts.ca/article/syndicated/443765/battle-won-ticats-win-game-season-series-over-argos)

[Will]

I say we can't really afford to lose this one folks.

[doubleblue]

I expect the Argos to bounce back with Ricky Ray at QB.

[1argoholic]

Argos will win this at their old training camp facility. Good times there back in 91.

[ArgoZ]

Argos will win this at their old training camp facility. Good times there back in 91.


I believe it stayed their training camp until 1996. I met Argo QB Kent Austin for the first time in the Guelph weight room during the 95 season. I haven't been back since and are looking forward to attending the game.

[flafson]

Was it announced that RR will be starting?

[jerrym]

With Ricky Ray and the hunger that comes from having lost and facing the challenge of your most likely playoff opponent, I expect the Argos to win this one.

[argofandave]

Argos will win this at their old training camp facility. Good times there back in 91.
One of the Argos office staff members told me that the Ticats needed permission from the Argos to play games in Guelph this year since Guelph is still considered Argos territory because the Argos used to have their training camp there. I think that 1995 was the last season the Argos held their training camp in Guelph and they moved their training camp to Varsity Stadium in 1996.

[mchesher03]

decent forecast for Monday - looks like a good day for a bit of tailgating and a ticat beating. their fans will be whipped up by last friday's W which will just make our win on Monday all the sweeter....

[paulwoods13]

For those who are going, I will be selling my book on the 1983 Argos (Bouncing Back: From National Joke to Grey Cup Champs, http://bouncingbackbook.ca) before the game on the west concourse on Powerhouse Lane.

Five bucks from the sale of each book goes to Play Action minor football in Hamilton. http://www.ticats.ca/page/playaction_minorfootball

This is all thanks to David Watkins, who worked for the Argos in 1983, was interviewed for the book and is now a member of the Tiger-Cats front office.

Hope to see some of you there!

[Deerkeeper]

For those who are going, I will be selling my book on the 1983 Argos (Bouncing Back: From National Joke to Grey Cup Champs, http://bouncingbackbook.ca) before the game on the west concourse on Powerhouse Lane.

Five bucks from the sale of each book goes to Play Action minor football in Hamilton. http://www.ticats.ca/page/playaction_minorfootball

This is all thanks to David Watkins, who worked for the Argos in 1983, was interviewed for the book and is now a member of the Tiger-Cats front office.

Hope to see some of you there!You are selling a book glorifying the Toronto Argonauts at a Hamilton Tiger-Cat home game. Are you going to need any body guards? I'm going to the game so I'll try and drop around. I haven't read a book in over 15 years, so I guess maybe I'm due.

[paulwoods13]

You are selling a book glorifying the Toronto Argonauts at a Hamilton Tiger-Cat home game. Are you going to need any body guards? I'm going to the game so I'll try and drop around. I haven't read a book in over 15 years, so I guess maybe I'm due.

It has crossed my mind that I might take some abuse -- I certainly have at Labour Day games when I wasn't selling a book. But I'm counting on the goodwill of most Ticats fans. Many of them seem to realize that the two teams -- and their fanbases -- are intextricably tied together and need each other. Let's hope this year the two meet in the Eastern Final -- that would be great for football interest in southern Ont.

I hope to meet you, Deerkeeper. If you are due to read a book, this is definitely the one!

[Argo57]

See you there Paul!!!

[gilthethrill]

Frank Ziccarelli reports that Kackert has not taken any reps this week and that Norwood may start. What happened to Kackert? Why would he report this without further info? Argo injuries continue to be a mystery in most cases.

[paulwoods13]

No depth chart up yet (not surprisingly as the game is about 56 hours away). Anyone been to practice this week who can report on who looks to be starting on the o-line? Jarriel King did not play the second half last week, with Van Zeyl moving to tackle, Eppele to right guard and Wayne Smith to left guard. Continuing with that alignment would allow them to dress the extra import (Jamie Robinson, according to Zicarelli) that they will need in the secondary because of Matt Black's injury. Zicarelli says Barnes could come out for Robinson but I would think if Barnes comes out, it will be for Chiles. I believe they will dress a backup import RB, given Kackert's apparent injury, so one import receiver -- either Barnes or Guy -- will have to go.

[gilthethrill]

No depth chart up yet (not surprisingly as the game is about 56 hours away). Anyone been to practice this week who can report on who looks to be starting on the o-line? Jarriel King did not play the second half last week, with Van Zeyl moving to tackle, Eppele to right guard and Wayne Smith to left guard. Continuing with that alignment would allow them to dress the extra import (Jamie Robinson, according to Zicarelli) that they will need in the secondary because of Matt Black's injury. Zicarelli says Barnes could come out for Robinson but I would think if Barnes comes out, it will be for Chiles. I believe they will dress a backup import RB, given Kackert's apparent injury, so one import receiver -- either Barnes or Guy -- will have to go.

Paul, you continue to amaze me with your game observations. I watched the game closely as always on my HD TV last Friday, but did not pick up hardly any of those player shuffles....I don't mean to criticize, but should the TSN sideline reporter or the play by play guys not pick up these moves and inform the viewers?

I do pay attention when I am watching.....honest.....I vote Guy to sit out if you are correct about your roster forecast.

[paulwoods13]

Paul, you continue to amaze me with your game observations. I watched the game closely as always on my HD TV last Friday, but did not pick up hardly any of those player shuffles....I don't mean to criticize, but should the TSN sideline reporter or the play by play guys not pick up these moves and inform the viewers?

I do pay attention when I am watching.....honest.....I vote Guy to sit out if you are correct about your roster forecast.

I do wish TSN would report important stuff like this during the game, but that hasn't happened since the days of Bill Stephenson and Brian Williams on CTV and CBC in the early 1980s. It's also a problem at times even with a big-bucks outfit like Hockey Night in Canada -- I remember in Game 7 of the 1993 Norris Division semifinal, Toronto at Detroit, the Wings played most of the game without their best defenceman, Paul Coffey, and it was never noticed or mentioned by Bob Cole and Harry Neale even though at one point the producer pulled up a lengthy shot of Coffey sitting on the bench.

I admit I am obsessive about personnel changes, especially on the two lines, at home games where I can watch every substitution.

[ArgoRavi]

I have complained about this before but, further to Paul's point, the quality and use of sideline reporting today isn't what it was in the old days with the likes of Stephenson, Tom McKee and Al McCann. Those guys lived and breathed the CFL and knew the game and its players well. There are some good sideline reporters in Sara Orlesky, Matt Scianitti and Farhan Lalji along with some not so good ones but I don't think that TSN leans on them the way that CBC and CTV used to lean on their sideline reporters. I had no clue that either Kackert or Black were injured in last week's game.

[gilthethrill]

I have complained about this before but, further to Paul's point, the quality and use of sideline reporting today isn't what it was in the old days with the likes of Stephenson, Tom McKee and Al McCann. Those guys lived and breathed the CFL and knew the game and its players well. There are some good sideline reporters in Sara Orlesky, Matt Scianitti and Farhan Lalji along with some not so good ones but I don't think that TSN leans on them the way that CBC and CTV used to lean on their sideline reporters. I had no clue that either Kackert or Black were injured in last week's game. Thanks Ravi, I now I know I have a valid concern....again, for your most up to date Argo news, tune into the pre-game show on TSN 1050...Hoagie & crew don't miss much if anything.

[AngeloV]

I blame the spotters more than the sideline reporters for this. I think the spotter should pick up personnel changes, and let the producer know, who then can get the sideline reporter to figure out what is going on.

[ArgoRavi]

I blame the spotters more than the sideline reporters for this. I think the spotter should pick up personnel changes, and let the producer know, who then can get the sideline reporter to figure out what is going on.

Interesting point, AV. Back when CTV covered the games, the spotters were Nick Volpe and Fred Fleming IIRC - I think that their official title was "isolation director". They both went on after their CTV days to work as scouts in pro football - Volpe, of course, with the Argos and Fleming with the Denver Broncos.

[Will]

Something iffy happening in Argo land. Watkins and Morley are suspended for tomorrow's game. Kackert is out too.

[paulwoods13]

Something iffy happening in Argo land. Watkins and Morley are suspended for tomorrow's game.

Here is what Drew Edwards just tweeted: Argos coach Scott Milanovich says DB Pat Watkins is out vs. #Ticats for personal reasons. "Nobody is in any trouble."

[Will]

Hopefully they aren't related to his personal issues from training camp.

[jerrym]

The loss of Watkins, a team captain, is big. The six-foot-five, 205-pound cornerback was a league all-star last year and is not only the Argos' top pass defender but also a threat to blitz off the edge.Rookie Neiko Thorpe will make his first CFL start at cornerback and be one of five Argos in new defensive positions Monday at Alumni Stadium in Guelph, Ont. Jamie Robinson replaces the injured Matt Black at safety, Ricardo Colclough moves from linebacker to halfback with Major Culbert taking Colclough's spot and rookie Auston English starting at defensive end.
Toronto running back Chad Kackert (shoulder) also won't play while receiver John Chiles (hamstring) is a game-time decision.
This should make the game interesting on defence, but at least Ricky is coming back.
http://www.nanaimodailynews.com/sports/basketball/argos-won-t-have-cornerback-watkins-for-rematch-against-rival-ticats-1.658687

(http://www.nanaimodailynews.com/sports/basketball/argos-won-t-have-cornerback-watkins-for-rematch-against-rival-ticats-1.658687)

[gilthethrill]

Hopefully Watkins can get his personal problems resolved. Hate the fact he is out (as is Morley), but the Argos did win 2 playoff games last year when he was injured. I just don't see a Henry Glenn lead team beating the Argos 2 weeks in a row.

[D-Gap-Willie]

The defense looks like one of my old grandma's quilts after 30 years of loving use -- patchwork to begin with, and now severely frayed, with a few holes in need of mending......but it still does the job just fine.

[Stevoman]

Feeling nervous. I want them to do their part to lock up first place!!!!

[Argo57]

Watkins situation is concerning, the biggest game of the season and he is not available???
The "personal" issues must be very serious in order for the team to excuse him for this game, love Watkins as a player but can't help but wonder if these "issues" will eventually lead him to leave for good.

[Childress]

Morely was released from the Stamps due to a lack of professionalism. I don't know exactly what that means, but it isn't a good trend. The fact that he is being suspended by his new team just a few weeks later suggests that he may be near the end of the line. He is an incredible talent, but seems to have a ten cent head.

[ArgoZ]

Watkins situation is concerning, the biggest game of the season and he is not available???
The "personal" issues must be very serious in order for the team to excuse him for this game, love Watkins as a player but can't help but wonder if these "issues" will eventually lead him to leave for good.

Since the beginning of us following this team, we have seen great talent players come in with personal issues. Never knowing if they are valid or not, one thing does seem to be certain, and that is they usually have short careers. CFL teams seem to take a chance on these guys because they are so talented, but rarely it works out. Hopefully Watkins is one of the rare ones.

[ArgoGabe22]

Suspensions are both for personal reasons and Milanoich made it pretty clear that no one is in any trouble.

[Mowich]

I am so glad to hear that Ricky Ray will be back in pivot for the Argos. Will cheering for your guys today though I would normally support the Cats - but today with Ray, I hope the Argos go all the way to the win. Go, Argos, Go!

[jerrym]

I am so glad to hear that Ricky Ray will be back in pivot for the Argos. Will cheering for your guys today though I would normally support the Cats - but today with Ray, I hope the Argos go all the way to the win. Go, Argos, Go!
A Ticat fan cheering for the Argos! What has the world come to ! Anyway welcome on board!

[Bleeds Double Blue]

I know I'm off topic here but this first quarter of the Als-Bombers game is like a Marx Brothers movie. I trust the Argo game will be much better.

[1argoholic]

The second quarter of the above mentioned game isn't any better. Makes the league look like CRAP. Too many injured qb's and rookies attempting to learn the CFL game.

Well I'm feeling a wee bit nervous about todays game as we never seem to do things the easy way. I'd love for us to get back on track but don't like the news about Watkins and Morley. What the hell is that all about? Sure we get Ray back and will expect him to put up 50.

[jerrym]

In another off-topic comment, there seems to be a lot of empty seats at the Montreal game - hopefully not a sign that many Montreal fans are abandoning the Als because they are a losing team.

[gilthethrill]

Mike Hogan in the pregame depots Shane Horton is out...is he hurt? Wayne Smith is a scratch, I think Tyler Holmes suits up for the first time......glad we are not playing Ivor Wynne....but still very nervous.

[jerrym]

Watkin's replacement, Thorpe, recovers Ticat fumble! Way to show you're in the game from the start. Keep it up, Nieko!

[jerrym]

I don't see how Carter can be ruled to have possession and thus a two point safety. It even was questionable whether he deliberately kicked the ball - it could have been ruled Argo ball.

[Will]

Argos D not looking good so far. Penalties galore.

[jerrym]

Argos D not looking good so far. Penalties galore.
Mistakes galore. They must be imitating the Winnipeg-Montreal game.

[Will]

Terrible game for the Argos. Hamilton has the answer for everything and we cannot get anything done on either side of the ball. Barnes fumble, a safety through the endzone and we cannot kick a FG.

[jerrym]

Barnes fumble after 37 yard gain. Even when the Argos do something right they get it wrong.

[Will]

Horrible offensive line play.

[Will]

The complete loss of discipline on this team the last two weeks has been astounding. The Ticats once again look extremely prepared today and the Argos don't like they even practiced.

Cue the Pinball pep talk this week.

[Nob]

This may very well be the worst half of football the Argos have played. Just awful.

Can't stand watching this garbage. How can they not be ready to play, week after week after week.....?? They can't always expect to come back in the second half, especially this late in the season.

Have to think that the Cats are the team to beat in the East. The Argos aren't doing anything offensively, and haven't stopped Burris this year.

[Will]

A TD and hopefully some momentum.

[jerrym]

Ray to Watt - TD! I'm glad - otherwise, I might not have been able to keep my Thanksgiving dinner down after this comedy of errors in the first half.

[ArgoGabe22]

Well that INT sure woke me up.

[OV Argo]

BAD game by the Argos so far; but the Ticats ain't much IMO; 2nd half comeback win coming up; and even if not - the Argos, at full force (Watkins, Kackert, etc.) will slaughter the Ticats if they face them in the play-offs - book it, you heard it here.

[Nob]

Wow..... Is this ever pathetic.

Don't care what you say about who is in and who isn't in the lineup, this team is awful right now. The Cats are having their way this week again.

No offence, plus another unexplainable slow start, combined with not being able to stop them, and then add in some bad penalties means another loss.

This ain't good, people.......

[jerrym]

After driving the ball down to the Ticat 10 yard line, the Argos can't even line up properly twice in a row to go for a TD. Pathetic.

[Stevoman]

Well they made it interesting but first place will have to wait and the TiCats are getting more confident each week. Here's hoping that Hamilton has peaked and that the Argos starters improve as Ray/Owens get back in the groove and we get Watkins back.

[OV Argo]

Well - worst game of the season by the Argo, BUT - they were still driving for the winning TD late in the game till Ray threw his first pick of the season.

Argos need to settle down and adjust in some areas: O-Line needs to tighten up (Holmes - a raw rookie at guard looked lost at times); establish more run game; and on D - not near enough pass rush pressure (English is not cutting it at DE - looks rookie lost out there too - put McCune at DE and Pottinger at MLB = way more CFL experience), plus getting Watkins, Black and Horton back on D will make a way better unit than we saw today.

Looking forward to a potential Argo/Pussycats East final (Als are brutal); and i say again - Argos will smoke the Pussycats in that game; way more talent, + Austin is a clueless dink of a HC IMO.

[doubleblue]

That Cable kid is a good runner, Jones has to put a "spy" on him in the playoffs to take away those long drives that kept Ricky Ray on the bench. But you have to give Hamilton credit. They are starting to look like a Kent Austin team.

[1argoholic]

What Nob said in his last two posts.
Frankly I never thought I'd ever catch myself saying this but I'm becoming less of a fan. I realize injuries happen but I CAN NOT keep up with who is playing on D this year. What the hell is with Watkins? This is pro football. He doesn't come to camp and now is suspended for family reasons or something. Just tell the fans what the hell is up. Too many changes week to week and the team is just not prepared to play. How are we in first place?
The D looked like lost puppies and Hamilton has our number. If not for a Gable drop late in that first game we would have lost that to Hamilton as well.
I just knew we'd lose when I heard about Watkins, Mobley, Chiles and Kackert yesterday.
We never do anything the easy way. Seriously might be time to miss games and enjoy the beautiful Kawarthas.

[Will]

Fine move back to BC while you are at it.

[Will]

I didn't see the need for Ray to thro go deep on 3rd down. The worst thing might have been Owens' catch that was reviewed. Gave Ticats D a breather so they could make the final plays.

[zontar]

If I had any teeth I'd get some corn on the cob to celebrate. :o

[1argoholic]

I've been a huge fan of this team for well over 40 years. I'm not going to take BS comments from you argofan87.

[zontar]

pardon ???

[Midnight Blue]

pardon ???


"He head-faked him with biting-movement-hand-held dentures from the side ... and the knob went for it....

Back-handed corn-cob slash across the temple, second cob up the kazoo....

Vicious cob-thrust through the nose, and out the back of the head....


"Well, is that enough 'don't have enough teeth to smoke a sausage for ya?'"


-- H/T to 'The Champ'

[zontar]

LOL. If you make "Champ" references you must be old. (like me)

[Midnight Blue]

LOL. If you make "Champ" references you must be old. (like me)


Oh yeah ... closer to Fifty than to Forty.

Cheers !


And congrats to your 'Cats for holding off our juggernaut !


Now, the Argos are really gonna get pissed off. Just like 1argoholic ad Argofan87.

I'm actually quite ticked off too, but my cold-bloodedness, serves me once again.

[jerrym]

Overall the effort of the Argos was pathetic. They will not be in the Grey Cup this year, let alone win it, unless they start playing 60 minutes of football. Having said this, there were a few players who performed well IMO.
Nieko Thorpe did a good job replacing Watkins, although he is not Watkins, of course.
Durie, as usual, played 60 minutes of strong football, always giving a great effort, which is reflected in the fact that he leads the league in YAC yards.
Owens started to round into form as a receiver late in the game.
While Ray's timing may have been a little off, his arm and shoulder showed no signs of damage and the rust will wear off with time.
Norwood continues to impress with both his running and blocking.
However, most of the rest of the Argos looked like they waddled away from the Thanksgiving table after eating too much turkey and were ready for a post-meal nap.

[zontar]

Close finish builds some drama for East Final. S. Ontario media will have to pay attention.

[Nob]

Plus there are some tweets out there that are saying that the showers in the Argos' portables weren't working......

Argos have to be better on the line of scrimmage. Ticats had close to 550 yards offence. Inexcusable. A lot of that was because Burris had a lot of time to do what he wanted.

Too many mistakes - bad fg snap, penalties, slow start, missed blocking assignments (Eppelle did not impress me today - he missed a couple of blocks), and why don't they run the ball more (yeah, it's Ray's offence, but what the heck... they have capable backs. And why do they dress Steele when they barely use Norwood??). This team isn't that good that they can overcome all of these things.

When they play well they are a very good team, but they need to be playing better then they are.

[argotom]

Another poor game, even worse then the last game. Same problem as both the D and O lines were porous. Ricky was continuously pressured and hurried to release the ball and consequently had to check down many times. Conversely Hank had all kinds of times in the pocket, don't know how many times I could count to 5+ steam bolts. Overall there did not appear to be any sense of urgency out on the field, lacking emotion.

[Midnight Blue]

If Ray didn't throw a pick on the last drive, the game (and the cat) woulda been in the bag.


Ricky is allowed a game or two to shake the rust off, just like every other player who comes back from injury.


The Dynasty, is just beginning.



Ka' Pla !

[Stevoman]

Not sold on Watt yet as a receiver. I think there has made a lot of progress but not sure if he should've been the man on that 3rd down play. How much of it was the pass and how much the pattern that was run? After Barnes TD grab I was hoping they'd be going his way again. This is where we missed Chiles.

[AngeloV]

Tough game all around...but I am not too worried. Lost to the Peg in Ray's return after injury last year, and then went on to win 5 straight. Same thing will happen this year.

[paulwoods13]

Back from the game -- a great atmosphere in there, and lots of Argo fans in section 105.

For the second week in a row, we got out-coached and out-game-planned, IMO. The Ticats had an answer for pretty well everything we tried, on both sides of the ball, in the first half. Jones's defensive schemes looked awful for much of the game (and I couldn't help but notice one prominent Argo fan yelling, "Jones, you're a genius!" after one early series where the Cats had their way on play after play).

The other really pressing issue, IMO, is both lines of scrimmage. We have been completely dominated by the Ticats on both sides of the ball the past two weeks. Their o-line is beaten up but we still got zero pressure, even when we blitzed. We basically have no defensive ends. We were missing Horton but I don't consider him a true end anyway. On the o-line, busted protections happened time after time. A few of those were clearly attributable to Norwood being in there instead of Kackert, but I saw some weak block attempts by pretty well all the linemen except Keeping. Rogers got schooled by Boudreaux, Eppele muffed a few and even Van Zeyl had a few whiffs. King got hurt and the ensuing replacements -- with Holmes in at LG, Eppele moving to RG and VZ at RT -- showed when Holmes got torched on the late drive. He is a rookie and is going to be a good one but we suddenly seem thin at o-line. I'd sure like to know how injured Tony Washington is, or if he has simply played so badly that he's been beaten out by Rogers and/or King. It sure galled me to see Reinders lining up on the Hamilton offence in short-yardage situations -- maybe we could have kept him instead of the seldom-dressed Andrew Jones? Not saying Reinders would help this year but as I said when he was released, if he turns out to be Chris Walby Mark II we are all going to rue the day he was released.

The good news is Ricky looks as good as ever (when he has time to throw) and Owens seems to be rounding into form. Get Kackert and Chiles back and somehow shore up the protection and we should be able to win two of our last three games. We're going to need to win at least two because I believe Hamilton is almost certain to win two of their last three. We have to hope they don't win all three, because I really doubt we will win all three the way we are playing at the moment.

[1argoholic]

Without any doubt I'm very sure the guy yelling Jone's You're A Genius had to be my good buddy and fellow Argoholic Finn. That smacks of a Finn comment. To say that we're both overly passionate about this bloody team would be an understatement.

[paulwoods13]

Without any doubt I'm very sure the guy yelling Jone's You're A Genius had to be my good buddy and fellow Argoholic Finn. That smacks of a Finn comment. To say that we're both overly passionate about this bloody team would be an understatement.

It wasn't Finn.

[ArgoRavi]

I didn't see the need for Ray to thro go deep on 3rd down. The worst thing might have been Owens' catch that was reviewed. Gave Ticats D a breather so they could make the final plays.

The game was there to be won at the end. I didn't like the execution on those final three offensive plays. I thought that Watt may have misjudged/misplayed that ball on the final offensive play. If he had just continued his pattern at full speed, Ray might have connected with him for the winning points.

I am not happy with the back-to-back losses to Hamilton but we are still in good shape as far as finishing in first place goes. I expect the offence to be crisper for Winnipeg and I expect the defence to get back on track as well. If we play Hamilton in the East Final, it will be a dogfight but I am confident that Milanovich and Jones will come up with the necessary answers. What this team needs to do as much as anything is to get healthy and get settled on the lineup for the playoffs. Unfortunately, they have had to shuffle players in and out far too much over the last few weeks which I believe has had a negative effect. Hopefully, Ray, Owens et al. can get back into rhythm over the coming weeks.

One interesting pattern to the Argo season so far is that every time they have lost one game, they have lost the next one - in other words, their six losses have come in bunches of two with the previous two bunches followed by four game winning streaks. Hopefully, the pattern will continue except the four game winning streak will become a five game one.

[flafson]

Almost got back to the game, oh well... Good effort though.

[Will]

Even if Ray had connected with Watt on 3rd down for the go ahead touchdown the Ticats had plenty of time to march down the field themselves and I must be honest that I don't think the defense would've necessarily held. Remember all Hamilton would have needed was a FG. I'd agree with Paul that the Argos were outcoached for the second consecutive week. It was frustrating to see how many times C.J Gable was left wide open with nothing around him.

Cue the Pinball pep talk this week!

[ArgoRavi]

Remember all Hamilton would have needed was a FG.

The Ticats have had issues with those as well this season.

[294life]

please tell me this team can beat winnipeg at least once.

two games in 10 days is still pretty brutal.

[1argoholic]

I feel the coaching issues run way deeper than the last two weeks. The only game in the last five or six where the team was prepared to play was the one in Calgary. We've taken way too long to adjust and I knew that it would finally catch up.
Ray didn't need to toss up that prayer to Watt who only catches balls that happen to hit him in the hands. Watt had no clue where that ball was. We still had plenty of time to hit something closer for a first down. That play didn't lose us the game. Too many changes week in and week out due to injuries and family problems or whatever. It would be nice to see some emotion from Milanovich. Never seems to have any sence of urgency.

I am fed up with the turnover of players from year to year and game to game for that matter. I'm not just talking about injuries.

I hope they can right the ship in the next few weeks. Instead of running away in the east now we're just trying to hang on to first.

[Will]

The Ticats have had issues with those as well this season.

But, I would rather have the confidence in my defense to force Hamilton to turn it over on downs rather than hope that their kicker misses.


I am fed up with the turnover of players from year to year and game to game for that matter. I'm not just talking about injuries.

Turnover is inevitable in a salary cap based system. It isn't the Argos' fault that Carroll and Younger both retired and that Pacino Horne came into camp with a seemingly bad attitude.

[Argo]

Does Watt average more than ~ one catch per game?
Why is Watt starting ahead of Bradwell?
From what I see watching complete Argo games on TSN's broadband CFL archive, Bradwell is the superior route runner, and has better hands.

[Argo57]

Pat Watkins, good player not sure what the deal is with him, don't care about his personal details but the simple fact is the biggest game of the year and he isn't available. (Wonder what that does inside the locker room)!!
Khalif Mitchell in the CFL you line up 1 yard off the ball.
Offence started to roll with high percentage short passes, 3rd and 10 late in the game get the 1st down use up some more time then take your shot!!
We let Hamilton off the hook with the sweep, they now have confidence that they can beat us in a big game, what a total piss off the Argonauts can be at times!!!!!

[AngeloV]

Does Watt average more than ~ one catch per game?
Why is Watt starting ahead of Bradwell?
From what I see watching complete Argo games on TSN's broadband CFL archive, Bradwell is the superior route runner, and has better hands.

Because Watt has speed that opens up the underneath routes for the likes of Owens and Durie. No offense to Bradwell, but he's not going to do this. I don't understand the hatred for Watt. Too many people have no concept of 12 players working together to make plays successful. There is only 1 ball to go around, and with Durie, Owens, and Chiles or Inman getting as many balls thrown their way as they do, how is the # 5 receiver in the set going to catch enough balls to satisfy you guys?
Furthermore, he has 3 TD's and is averaging 16.5 yards per catch. In today's West Coast style of offences being run, there aren't too many receivers in the league averaging that many YPC (only 3 better than him of receivers with 20 catches or more).

[AngeloV]

Pat Watkins, good player not sure what the deal is with him, don't care about his personal details but the simple fact is the biggest game of the year and he isn't available. (Wonder what that does inside the locker room)!!


How is it the biggest game of the year? Even with the loss, they are still in control of their own destiny (as far as winning the division). I'd love to go back to the thread after the late season loss to the Bombers last year to see if the complaints were as bad as they are now. Everyone, take a deep breath. Things are going to be OK.

[argotom]

Every game you play naturally is the biggest game of the year.

[argolio]

Argos lose? They are the worst team in the world! And x, y, and z really stink!!

Argos win? We are the greatest team in the world! But x, y, or z still stinks.

Rinse and repeat.

[ArgoRavi]

Honestly, I think that losing this two-game series might be a blessing in disguise of sorts as there is no way the Argos will be complacent now and if they have to face the Ticats in the East Final, they know what they are up against rather than potentially being surprised as happened to a certain degree back in '83. In 1988, everything came a little too easy and the 14-4 Argos ended up getting shocked by the 9-9 Blue Bombers in the East Final. Having to work a little harder over these final few weeks is probably not a bad thing for this team.

[zontar]

Argos were certainly shocked by a 5 win HAM team in '84 final.

[1argoholic]

It always sucks losing to Hamilton but they have our number this year. They really came close to sweeping us this year. How can we not get up for Hamilton especially after losing to them last week.

[Ron]

It would be nice to see some emotion from Milanovich. Never seems to have any sence of urgency.

Why should the coach get all emotional when he's not that way? You really want him to change who he is to please fans?

Anyways. His lack of urgency last season got us a Grey Cup win.

[Ron]

It always sucks losing to Hamilton but they have our number this year. They really came close to sweeping us this year. How can we not get up for Hamilton especially after losing to them last week.

They were up. They just got beat.

[paulwoods13]

Honestly, I think that losing this two-game series might be a blessing in disguise of sorts as there is no way the Argos will be complacent now and if they have to face the Ticats in the East Final, they know what they are up against rather than potentially being surprised as happened to a certain degree back in '83. In 1988, everything came a little too easy and the 14-4 Argos ended up getting shocked by the 9-9 Blue Bombers in the East Final. Having to work a little harder over these final few weeks is probably not a bad thing for this team.

I agree completely. Clinching with three weeks left would have meant no urgency for five weeks -- way too long. Plus a race for first between Ham and Tor will increase interest and media attention in this market, always a good thing. I hope both teams win this week, then we beat Wpg and Ham loses at home to Mtl so we clinch in time to rest some guys in the final game. Best possible scenario, IMO.

[AngeloV]

I agree completely. Clinching with three weeks left would have meant no urgency for five weeks -- way too long. Plus a race for first between Ham and Tor will increase interest and media attention in this market, always a good thing. I hope both teams win this week, then we beat Wpg and Ham loses at home to Mtl so we clinch in time to rest some guys in the final game. Best possible scenario, IMO.

I would have no problem if we both won out. If the Argos finish first, I have never liked the concept of sitting out starters with a bye the following week. That would be 3 weeks between games for some of the key players. I never like that.

[Argo]

Because Watt has speed that opens up the underneath routes for the likes of Owens and Durie. No offense to Bradwell, but he's not going to do this. I don't understand the hatred for Watt. Too many people have no concept of 12 players working together to make plays successful. There is only 1 ball to go around, and with Durie, Owens, and Chiles or Inman getting as many balls thrown their way as they do, how is the # 5 receiver in the set going to catch enough balls to satisfy you guys?
Furthermore, he has 3 TD's and is averaging 16.5 yards per catch. In today's West Coast style of offences being run, there aren't too many receivers in the league averaging that many YPC (only 3 better than him of receivers with 20 catches or more).

No hatred here for Watt or anyone else and, yes, you make valid points (that I was by and large already aware of). It would be interesting, though, to compare the production and consistency of the offence with Bradwell starting in place of Watt. Clearly, though, that isn't going to happen.

[Argo]

I would have no problem if we both won out. If the Argos finish first, I have never liked the concept of sitting out starters with a bye the following week. That would be 3 weeks between games for some of the key players. I never like that.

Really, the Argos are, and would be, better off playing on the road (and all the more so given that "the road" isn't particularly lengthy).

[Argo]

I feel the coaching issues run way deeper than the last two weeks. The only game in the last five or six where the team was prepared to play was the one in Calgary. We've taken way too long to adjust and I knew that it would finally catch up.
Ray didn't need to toss up that prayer to Watt who only catches balls that happen to hit him in the hands. Watt had no clue where that ball was. We still had plenty of time to hit something closer for a first down. That play didn't lose us the game. Too many changes week in and week out due to injuries and family problems or whatever. It would be nice to see some emotion from Milanovich. Never seems to have any sence of urgency.

I am fed up with the turnover of players from year to year and game to game for that matter. I'm not just talking about injuries.


I hope they can right the ship in the next few weeks. Instead of running away in the east now we're just trying to hang on to first.

The last time that I can recall actually expecting the Argos to win every time they stepped on the field were the Doug Flutie seasons.

[ArgoRavi]

Argos were certainly shocked by a 5 win HAM team in '84 final.

The Ticats were 6-9-1 in '84 before beating the Concordes and then the Argos in the EF. Hamilton actually beat the Argos in the final regular season game that year at Exhibition Stadium. The 9-6-1 Argos had clinched first place with three regular season games left IIRC and did not play all that well down the stretch which, unfortunately, continued into the playoffs. The Ticats, as they often did in those days, started slowly but got better as the season progressed.

[doubleblue]

I feel the coaching issues run way deeper than the last two weeks. The only game in the last five or six where the team was prepared to play was the one in Calgary. We've taken way too long to adjust and I knew that it would finally catch up.
Ray didn't need to toss up that prayer to Watt who only catches balls that happen to hit him in the hands. Watt had no clue where that ball was. We still had plenty of time to hit something closer for a first down. That play didn't lose us the game. Too many changes week in and week out due to injuries and family problems or whatever. It would be nice to see some emotion from Milanovich. Never seems to have any sence of urgency.

I am fed up with the turnover of players from year to year and game to game for that matter. I'm not just talking about injuries.

I hope they can right the ship in the next few weeks. Instead of running away in the east now we're just trying to hang on to first. I thought the Argos maybe got a little out Coached in this game. But on that last drive they didn't have OT King which seemed to cause some blocking confusion with Holmes in for him. I was surprised at that call sending Watt deep over the middle, right into double coverage. I think he can be a good #2 or #3 receiver as a wide out as he gains experience but IMO you have to go to your money guys like Barnes or Durie in that scenario. But give Hamilton credit they came up with a big rush in the clutch. Hopefully, all the wounded warriors like Childs, Kackert and Black will be back for the EC Final.

[AngeloV]

I thought the Argos maybe got a little out Coached in this game. But on that last drive they didn't have OT King which seemed to cause some blocking confusion with Holmes in for him. I was surprised at that call sending Watt deep over the middle, right into double coverage. I think he can be a good #2 or #3 receiver as a wide out as he gains experience but IMO you have to go to your money guys like Barnes or Durie in that scenario. But give Hamilton credit they came up with a big rush in the clutch. Hopefully, all the wounded warriors like Childs, Kackert and Black will be back for the EC Final.

Couldn't agree more..especially the wounded Warriors part. As for the last play, Obviously the Cats showed a coverage in which Ray felt the deep pattern would be there and It wasn't. So, they either confused Ray with their pre snap look, or Ray just made a bad read. Bottom line was that the Cats D came up big when they needed to, and the Argos D did not. But again, Hamilton had a lot more to play for the last couple of weeks, and it showed. Hopefully (and I'm fairly confident in this) the Argos sense of urgency will pick up come playoff time, as it did last year.

As I said earlier, when the Argos lost to the Peg in Ray's return last year, dropping their record at the time to 7-9, the mood on here was pretty bad. I have no problem being 9-6 at this point in time.

[zontar]

The Ticats were 6-9-1 in '84 before beating the Concordes and then the Argos in the EF. Hamilton actually beat the Argos in the final regular season game that year at Exhibition Stadium. The 9-6-1 Argos had clinched first place with three regular season games left IIRC and did not play all that well down the stretch which, unfortunately, continued into the playoffs. The Ticats, as they often did in those days, started slowly but got better as the season progressed.

Sorry, thought they were 5-10-1 in 84. (they were 5-10 -1 in 83)