DL adjustments

[Wobbler]

We've had bright spots on the DL: Khalif Mitchell has been very good and Cleyon Laing has had a strong rookie season, making some mistakes but getting better at smart aggression. Generally, however, the DL has not been a strong group. Williams, Tripp, Lee, and English look like backups, not starters.

It is late in the season, but this is one area where I think we can (and should) continue to experiment. If Marcus Thomas can get up to speed soon, I'd start him next to Mitchell (backed by Tripp and/or Williams) with Laing moved outside as an over-sized DE (backed by Lee). The other outside spot would be filled by under-sized "DE" Horton (backed by Culbert).

How would you change the DL?

[paulwoods13]

I agree with your analysis -- the DL has been a sore spot all season. It's a combination of poor personnel and weird schemes, IMO. I was astonished in Guelph to see Cleyon Laing (who weighs 280 pounds) dropping 15 yards deep into coverage before one snap. What is the sense of that?

I still think we can get back to the Grey Cup even with a substandard d-line, but I agree it would benefit from a new force, either inside or outside. Maybe Thomas is it. However, if we sit Lee for an import, and with Matt Black out, we will need to find an extra non-import starter somewhere else or lose the roster flexibility we have had most of the season. I would not even be opposed to trying OV's suggestion of McCune at DE and Pottinger at MLB.

[ArgoGabe22]

I would not even be opposed to trying OV's suggestion of McCune at DE and Pottinger at MLB.

I actually think that makes sense. If our DEs don't play a traditional role then there is no need for a real DE to be there to drop into coverage, might as well put McCune or Horton (if healthy) there. We have CDN depth at LB with Pottinger, Yurichuk, Hood and Tonye-Tonye. Looks like last game was a first time that Yurichuk got snaps at LB.

Now do the coaches think thes guys can be starters or are just strictly special teamers?

[ArgoRavi]

I actually think that makes sense. If our DEs don't play a traditional role then there is no need for a real DE to be there to drop into coverage, might as well put McCune or Horton (if healthy) there. We have CDN depth at LB with Pottinger, Yurichuk, Hood and Tonye-Tonye. Looks like last game was a first time that Yurichuk got snaps at LB.

Now do the coaches think thes guys can be starters or are just strictly special teamers?

BTW, I noticed that Tonye-Tonye was playing a bit on defence in Edmonton. I don't know if he has played much there since though.

[ArgoZ]

I don't think it's wise to move McCune at this point. He is leading the team by far in tackles and becoming a true MLB.

[paulwoods13]

BTW, I noticed that Tonye-Tonye was playing a bit on defence in Edmonton. I don't know if he has played much there since though.

He got in a fair bit each of the last two weeks. Pottinger and Yurichuk also got a few reps in Guelph, mostly in short-yardage situations.

[gilthethrill]

We've had bright spots on the DL: Khalif Mitchell has been very good and Cleyon Laing has had a strong rookie season, making some mistakes but getting better at smart aggression. Generally, however, the DL has not been a strong group. Williams, Tripp, Lee, and English look like backups, not starters.

It is late in the season, but this is one area where I think we can (and should) continue to experiment. If Marcus Thomas can get up to speed soon, I'd start him next to Mitchell (backed by Tripp and/or Williams) with Laing moved outside as an over-sized DE (backed by Lee). The other outside spot would be filled by under-sized "DE" Horton (backed by Culbert).

How would you change the DL? Thomas certainly is a noteworthy addition to the PR. His physical presence beside Mitchell could really plug the middle of the line. I would like to see him in the lineup perhaps as soon as next week.

[OV Argo]

Move McCune to DE - where he played some with the Stamps (and was better there than as a MLB IMO); Lee has come on some at DE lately, but another DE (Horton some, a new guy?) could get some looks in a platoon at the position - not near enough pass rush pressure from Argo DEs this year; Mitchell and Laing are fairly solid, but inconsistent at DT; and play more true 4 man fronts, and stop with the games of dropping D-Linemen in coverage so often.

D is a big concern now IMO - and it starts with an average or weak D-Line

[paulwoods13]

Move McCune to DE - where he played some with the Stamps (and was better there than as a MLB IMO); Lee has come on some at DE lately, but another DE (Horton some, a new guy?) could get some looks in a platoon at the position - not near enough pass rush pressure from Argo DEs this year; Mitchell and Laing are fairly solid, but inconsistent at DT; and play more true 4 man fronts, and stop with the games of dropping D-Linemen in coverage so often.

D is a big concern now IMO - and it starts with an average or weak D-Line

I agree with pretty well all of this. "Average" is too kind, at least in terms of the type of things ordinarily considered productive (sacks, pressure and run stops). I wonder if Lee is hurt or has fallen out of favour as I saw him only in the very early going today. Brown got tons of PT today but I didn't see him do a lot with it, although he was way down the sideline on one of Wpg's deep receptions.

[ArgoZ]

Move McCune to DE - where he played some with the Stamps (and was better there than as a MLB IMO); Lee has come on some at DE lately, but another DE (Horton some, a new guy?) could get some looks in a platoon at the position - not near enough pass rush pressure from Argo DEs this year; Mitchell and Laing are fairly solid, but inconsistent at DT; and play more true 4 man fronts, and stop with the games of dropping D-Linemen in coverage so often.

D is a big concern now IMO - and it starts with an average or weak D-Line

Another good game for McCune. He even had a nice read and key interception. He really is becoming a top LB in this league. Argos moving him because other players can't get it done at their position is not going to happen.

[argolio]

Argos moving him because other players can't get it done at their position is not going to happen.I hope it doesn't. I don't like the idea of moving a guy who is playing his current position at an all-star level, especially at this point of the season.

[Argo]

"...the DL has been a sore spot all season. It's a combination of poor personnel and weird schemes..."

All good posts: is the coaching staff is tuned in? Let's hope so.
Ideally, the D can be tweaked - and it should be tweaked - such that a quality player on offence (like Norwood, for example) stills sees the field, rather than being shipwrecked due to the ratio.

[OV Argo]

Another good game for McCune. He even had a nice read and key interception. He really is becoming a top LB in this league. Argos moving him because other players can't get it done at their position is not going to happen.

Good to see McCune get that pick, and yep he's a big strong dude who can lay the hammer at times; but sorry - not even close to a top MLB in the league - nowhere near the play-making, always around the ball ability of a Bighill or Elimiam or Sherritt or Emry or Henoc Muamba - all way better CFL MLBs IMO; and McCune did play at DE for the Stamps and he was good there as a pass rusher; and - the Argos have big need at DE / pass rush pressure and an experienced guy might help-out a lot there; and - the Argos have a capable MLB replacement in Pottinger with depth in Yurichuck or Tonye-Tonye; = SO. moving McCune to DE and putting Pottinger at MLB could/maybe/perhaps pay nice dividends for an Argo D that needs some help or improvement or change.

But yeah sure - not going to happen if the D coaching decision makers are stuck in their ways are are fine with the way the defence is playing? Just watched the Als D totally shut-down Blank Burris and Austin's simpleton, predictable offence - the one that just beat the Argos D 2 games in a row.

[ArgoRavi]

A year ago at this same time, the Argos were coming off a home loss to Winnipeg in which the Bombers' offence ran roughshod over the Argo defence. After that game, the Argo defence was able to put it together well enough to win a Grey Cup. Hopefully the same thing can happen this year and I see no reason why it can't.

[argolio]

Good to see McCune get that pick, and yep he's a big strong dude who can lay the hammer at times; but sorry - not even close to a top MLB in the league - nowhere near the play-making, always around the ball ability of a Bighill or Elimiam or Sherritt or Emry or Henoc Muamba - all way better CFL MLBs IMO;McCune in second in the league in tackles just ahead of Muamba. If that doesn't qualify as being around the ball, I don't know what does. And it's not like the Argos D is on the field way too much because the offense is anemic.

[paulwoods13]

While I am not opposed to the idea of moving McCune to DE (since we have so much depth at LB, and so little at DE), I will add that any concerns I had about McCune as an MLB last season have been more than answered this year. He has been strong all season, and has shown a lot more range than I thought he had. I would say he has been better than Muamba and Emry this season; haven't watched enough of the Lions and Esks to compare him to Bighill, Elimimian and Sherritt.

[AngeloV]

While I am not opposed to the idea of moving McCune to DE (since we have so much depth at LB, and so little at DE), I will add that any concerns I had about McCune as an MLB last season have been more than answered this year. He has been strong all season, and has shown a lot more range than I thought he had. I would say he has been better than Muamba and Emry this season; haven't watched enough of the Lions and Esks to compare him to Bighill, Elimimian and Sherritt.

Agree with your view of McCune's season. Definitely better than Muamba, Emery and Sherritt. I still think Elimimian is the best in the league, but he's had his share of injuries this season, so I would say that McCune has had the better year. Bighill is a lot better than I originally thought he was.

[OV Argo]

McCune in second in the league in tackles just ahead of Muamba. If that doesn't qualify as being around the ball, I don't know what does. And it's not like the Argos D is on the field way too much because the offense is anemic.

MLBs are supposed to be around the ball lots and often lead their team in tackles; and while I think tackle numbers are a good stat and an indicator, there is also the often heard criticism of tackles made - sure yeah, but way down the field after decent to big gainers - a lot of MLB have been hit by this criticism; I also am a big believer in all around defensive play-making stats - tackles, plus sacks, INTs, forced and recovered fumbles, pass knockdowns, tackles for loss - add a lot of the other things up besides the tackles and you have a good indicator of play-making on D, and MLBs have opportunities at all those; Sherritt was superb last season - what a combo of play-making stats, - but injured a lot of this year, Muamba was a leader in forced fumbles last year and is up there in total tackles this year; Bighill is about the best defensive player in the league now IMO (along with Chip Cox); Emry makes all kinds of big plays besides tackles. I like that McCune is amongst league tackle leaders (though a lot of them are well down the field), but how many sacks or forced & recovered fumbles or stuffs for a loss does he have to compare to some of the other top MLBs in the league ?

I like McCune's vet presence and hard hitting on the Argo D, but sorry - I aini't a homer in judging players and he just isn't a top CFL MLB, and IMO he could serve the Argos D better at DE and allowing another vet in Pottinger to be on the field too - more vet presence needed on this D and McCune showed he could be a pretty good pass rusher in his early days with the Stamps and the Argos have need there.

[Midnight Blue]

Great thoughts both pro and against starting McCune at DE.


You guys are what make this site, truly amazing.


I don't know what to think, but I wonder if it wouldn't hurt to experiment.

Now ... with just two games before the playoffs, is it a good idea?
What I mean is, can, or should, Robert McCune step into the DE position for a game or two, and then be versatile and adaptable enough, to jump back to MLB, if needed to?

Of course he can handle it, so I say yes. But yet....



Also, while some Defensive shake-ups shouldn't be ruled out, I think that it takes time for a unit to gel.

Not forgetting the general player turn-over on Defence this season, I think that they are at least, hanging in there.


Ka' Pla !