Will the Leafs fade?

[1argoholic]

I hope not but I don't have the faith. They need more guys finding the back of the net and Reimer back healthy.

I'd like to see them beat Boston already.They seem to play scared against them.

[Argofan]

I was always a jets fan even when they moved, great to have them back!
I cheer for the leafs but I think they are still lacking a few good players. By the time they bring in the new players the other ones are on there way out. So round, round we go...

[Will]

They looked impressive tonight defeating the Capitals 7-1. Komisarek, Grabovski, MacArthur and Lombardi are all hurt right now. The biggest instability is in net where Gustavsson and Scrivens have looked fine in some games, but lousy in others.

[1argoholic]

Seems like the fade is happening. Just lost in OT to LA. Not winning much as of late. Fed up with Leafs crap year in and year out. With so many bloody teams we might not see a great playoff run out of them for years to come.

[matchuk]

yes...and i hope so...im a flames fan anyways

i just dont get why everyone was planing the parade route back in october after like 5 games...

[Will]

The Leafs are definitely going through a rough patch and unfortunately the closeness of the standings in the Eastern Conference means a rough patch can easily knock you out of the playoffs. The Leafs haven't had the easiest go of it in the schedule either having to face Boston twice recently, Buffalo twice recently as well as Vancouver. Not an excuse, as those are the teams that the Leafs need to start beating in order to be considered a legit contender.

[Will]

Well they got an important 3-2 victory over Buffalo yesterday. Nazem Kadri finally got himself called up and scored the winner on a nice shot. The Leafs are back at it against the Islanders in Uniondale tonight before taking off Christmas. They go on the "road" to Florida after that, and I put road in quotations because most of the crowd will be Blue and White.

[bluto]

yes...and i hope so...im a flames fan anyways

i just dont get why everyone was planing the parade route back in october after like 5 games...

welcome to a thread featuring Leafs discussion...

first time talking to our people for you?

[Will]

So after defeating both Buffalo and Long Island before Christmas, the Leafs turned around and lost to the Panthers 5-3 in Fort Lauderdale and 4-3 in overtime to the Hurricanes in Raleigh. I was at the game in Fort Lauderdale and the Leafs penalty kill is brutal! They had started off sluggish giving up an early goal to Florida before carrying the play throughout the rest of the first period. Grabovski scores a goal to tie the game 1-1 early in the second, but then the Leafs allow a breakaway goal a few minutes later before taking a series of penalties that ultimately found the Leafs down 4-1. The Leafs made it as close as 4-3, but couldn' find the equalizing goal. What I did find interesting was that while there were a ton of Leaf fans at this game that the Panther fans were much more assertive then they were in the past. That team has been one of the surprises of the first half so it makes sense.

[ArgoRavi]

When was the last time that the Leafs had good penalty-killing? And what is with Ron Wilson getting a contract extension? Is Burke in love with mediocrity?

[matchuk]

i just dont get why you give the coach a contract extension when he has not improved in the entire time he has been with the team? i guess because they are sitting in 6th place thats good enough for them? i dont get it...i would have figured a good gm would give the contract after the end of the 2011-2012 season, when this coach may have made the playoffs...

[Deerkeeper]

To paraphrase Zuzu Bailey (It's a Wonderful Life):

"Every time a bell rings, the Maple Leafs lose a hockey game".

[Argos4Life]

Leafs fan all my life, never got a chance to see them win their last cup as I wasn't born yet, closest I came was back in 93 but I'll keep the faith. I don't expect the Leafs will fade to the extent of falling hopelessly out of playoff contention but rather will be involved in a tight race right to the end of the season. I do expect Burke to make a couple of meaningful moves before the trade deadline.

[argolio]

The contract extension makes little difference. There is no cap for coaches, and it's hardly a drain on MLSE. Wilson can still be fired, and almost certainly will be if the Leafs miss the playoffs.

[1argoholic]

Well since I posted this topic they aren't exactly ripping the league apart. I'm not sure they'll make the playoffs and they need great goaltending which they're not getting at this point. Man they let in soft goals.
I just wish the World Jr were played for two months. Talk about passion.

[argolio]

Agree about the goaltending. If Reimer or Gus doesn't get on a roll, trouble will follow.

[Argos4Life]

Goaltending is one area that may need to be addressed through a trade. The penalty kill really needs to get better as well.

[marcwagz]

rw cannot coach penalty killing, i dont get it

[matchuk]

i am not talking about the contract extension in regards to being towards the cap, i am just wondering why any gm would reward a coach who has not improved the team since he has arrived

[Will]

Phil Kessel and Joffrey Lupul have had terrific seasons so far, but they can't do it themselves offensively. Clarke MacArthur is a good player, but he may have overachieved last year, but actually should still be good for about 20 goals this season. Who needs to step up are Grabovski and Kulemin. Grabovski has been okay at times, but Kulemin has been terrible all year. Nazem Kadri looks good at times as well, but it remains to be seen whether he can contribute at a consistent level in the National Hockey League.

[1argoholic]

Well Burke wanted a big storng team and that didn't work so he got smaller and faster but as they are playing I don't see them making the playoffs. You really neeed to hit the skids, keep your first round picks and grow. I don't think you can do it all through trades and free agent signings. I'm getting kind of bored with the NHL.

[bluto]

i love the speed of the team, and on a night when they "click" they are a joy to behold... but the lack of physicality (or even grit in lieu of it) can be a bummer to watch. Boston has turned us over easily and it's because our speed doesn't overwhelm them and they just bully us. i'd like to see a frontline centre with some jam join the team... but that's a rare commodity and it won't come cheap or easy.the scheduler has been tough too. 16 back-to-backs is more than i ever remember having. and our record in them has been poor so far.

[argolio]

i am not talking about the contract extension in regards to being towards the cap, i am just wondering why any gm would reward a coach who has not improved the team since he has arrivedCoaches don't have a union or a lot of leverage. If Wilson gets fired, and you're sitting out there as a potential replacement, you're more likely to listen to a coach-friendly G.M. who is willing to give a coach security. Basically I see the extension more as Burke buying goodwill with the coaching fraternity than rewarding Wilson.

[bluto]

Also a way of giving his buddy a year's severance if he has to axe him.

[1argoholic]

Yah I like that comment. If he has to axe him he helped him out in the wallet.

I'm sick of seeing us crushed by Boston.

[Will]

The Leafs have helped themselves out this week pounding Tampa 7-3 on Tuesday and shutting out Winnipeg 4-0 yesterday. It seems that Jonas Gustavsson is the #1 for now although many think that Wilson has decided on a "win, you play" attitude. Kessel and Lupul continue to chug along and Grabovski seems to be stepping it up as well.

[Argos4Life]

Definately a win and you play attitute has taken over in terms of goaltending and I can't say I agree more. With the battle for the playoffs so hotly contested by so many teams you have to go with the hot goaltender. Getting the "W" is all that matters.

Agreed Kessel and Lupul have carried the load offensively this season but the potential is there for secondary scoring. McArthur may have ovachieved last year but he can still score 20 goals this season. Grabovski has played fairly well this season, as for Kuleman he will turn it around sooner or later. I don't think any player hits a post or cross bar more than him. This trio scored a combined 80 goals last year and that kind of production usually does not dry up over night. I look for a much better 2'nd half out of this group.

[Will]

I also feel sorry for that kid Jake Gardiner. He can't buy a goal despite having had some glorious chances. In the game against the Islanders before Christmas he did a beautiful spin-a-rama move, but was stopped by the Islanders goalie and in the game against Florida that I attended he rang (I think) two pucks off the crossbar within thirty seconds of each other. Also, Mike Komisarek is returning tonight to the lineup against Detroit. Before this year that would normally be a cause for alarm amongst Leaf fans, but he was actually playing fairly solid before he was injured. Dion Phaneuf should apparently also be ready to go despite taking a puck to the face in the game against Winnipeg on Thursday.

[Will]

The Leafs beat the Red Wings 4-3 yesterday. The Leafs were badly outshot, but Jonas Gustavsson was there when he needed to be to make the big stops. Joffrey Lupul and Phil Kessel found the scoring sheet once again and Dion Phaneuf got a goal too even with that facial mask. The Leafs have won three in a row in the new year and have moved back into a playoff position. They now have three very important games, a home and home against the Sabres and a game against Ottawa.

[DanTheFan]

Was juggling between the Leafs and Raptors last night. Gus has been great for us lately. I still support Reimer, but it would have looked bad if he was voted to start the All-Star game instead of Thomas. And Kulemin looked great last night (WHAT A HIT!!!).

[argolio]

Significant loss last night despite outplaying the Sens and them playing on back-to-back nights. Could end up being a turning point sort of game one way or another. Let's see how the team reacts to this loss.

[Will]

Significant loss last night despite outplaying the Sens and them playing on back-to-back nights. Could end up being a turning point sort of game one way or another. Let's see how the team reacts to this loss.

People seem to be harping on unsteady goaltending for the losing streak, but it is also worth nothing that they've scored only four times in the losing streak as well. Wilson seemed to notice because he split Kessel and Lupul.

[argolio]

Yeah, I agree the scoring drying up a bit has been the bigger problem lately.

Good comeback effort vs the Wild, and the Habs are up next, another team in turmoil.

[DanTheFan]

Good game last night. When the announcer talked about Gustavsson going for his 3rd shutout in as many weeks, I knew it was a matter of seconds before the Wild would score. :(

[Will]

Yeah, I agree the scoring drying up a bit has been the bigger problem lately.

Good comeback effort vs the Wild, and the Habs are up next, another team in turmoil.

The Habs state of turmoil goes well beyond the Leafs. This business with the head coach not speaking English is silly, and then Cammalleri gets himself traded?

[DanTheFan]

The Habs state of turmoil goes well beyond the Leafs. This business with the head coach not speaking English is silly, and then Cammalleri gets himself traded?
Did Scotty Bowman speak french? Maybe he did, but I'm sure the team's performance on the ice is the main reason the spoken language is given so much attention now. They're a rich organization, so why don't they just worry about finding the best coach for the team and hire translators if necessary?

[ArgoRavi]

The Habs state of turmoil goes well beyond the Leafs. This business with the head coach not speaking English is silly, and then Cammalleri gets himself traded?

The Canadiens are definitely in a load of trouble. The coaching change has done them absolutely zero good. It is likely safe to say that there won't be any playoff hockey in Montreal this year as they are too far behind with too many teams to jump over.

[Will]

The Maple Leafs lost 3-1 to the Canadiens yesterday. This was a pretty big loss because Florida defeated Winnipeg and thus they went out ahead of the Leafs again for the 8th playoff spot. This was a winnable game that they should've won. They have the Islanders for a home-and-home, which the Leafs should theoretically win one if not both.

[1argoholic]

Leafs have faded and every friggin Leaf game I get is a crappy loss. When I get to see them they stop skating and look lost. This doesn't look like a playoff team to me. The Montster gets beat over the left shoulder every game as he's on his knees pulling away from the post. They need better goal tending and some other guys to pick it up in the scoring department. I'm sick of Wilson and it seems like the players don't respond to him. I believe Calgary who sucked bigtime now sits in a playoff spot in the west and we're in 9th in the east and we came out gang busters. I have little faith. Win two lose three will get you nowhere.
Oh I just looked and Calgary sits in 10th but only two points out of 8th but they now are ahead of us in the overall standings which matters little other than my wife is a Flames fan.

[DanTheFan]

All this talk about the Habs being pitiful, and now they're just 6 points back of us. The Leafs need to take those games against the Isles, but they needed to win last night too. Worst case has the Leafs losing both in regulation, bringing the Isles to within 3 points of us.

[1argoholic]

I was just saying that to my wife this morning. All the whining and complaining in Montreal and they are still in the mix if they string a few more wins together.
You should have heard all the talk in these parts early on about Vancouver. Well that changed bigtime as did the early on first overall Leafs.

[ArgoRavi]

I was just saying that to my wife this morning. All the whining and complaining in Montreal and they are still in the mix if they string a few more wins together.
You should have heard all the talk in these parts early on about Vancouver. Well that changed bigtime as did the early on first overall Leafs.

The one thing about today's NHL though is that when you drop even 6 or 8 points out of a playoff spot with several teams to hop over and only half of the season left, it is tough to make that ground up. It isn't impossible but it is very tough with all of the points now available for teams to claim with OT and shootout loss points available. The Canadiens could ring off five wins in a row and still not gain much ground on a playoff spot.

[294life]

I'm not sure how happy I should be that the Habs actually won. Are the Leafs That bad? omg.

[1argoholic]

If the Leafs crap these two game to the Isles I'm counting them out.

[Will]

If the Leafs crap these two game to the Isles I'm counting them out.

Well they shut 'em out 3-0 tonight!

[argolio]

Leafs have faded and every friggin Leaf game I get is a crappy loss. When I get to see them they stop skating and look lost. This doesn't look like a playoff team to me.The Leafs are talented but they're also the youngest team in the league, so I think that accounts for some of the inconsistency.

As for a playoff spot, that probably won't be decided until the least week of the season.

[1argoholic]

Frustrating that's all I can say about this team and that the fans cut them way too much slack.

[argolio]

Frustrating that's all I can say about this team and that the fans cut them way too much slack.Too much slack implies this year's team is under-achieving. Not buying that one.

Burke's only got two more years left on his contract after this one to deliver on his promise of a contending team. I doubt he'll finish out his deal if he can't even produce a playoff team.

[bluto]

for me, this should be a playoff team. but when i see two crucial games like this past weekend where the Leafs have a chance to move on in their division and conference and hurt their rivals... then it looks like the team didn't ever get out of second gear then i have to look at the coach. it's his job to prepare the men and make sure that they put in an honest shift.

looking at the roster, the obviously glaring hole is the lack of a true #1 centre. i don't know who is available for trade... and i don't even know if we have assets enough to trade for one (as i am sure that Burke wouldn't want to face the fan's wrath if he dealt another 1st rounder away)... so i don't anticipate any big moves.

the Connolly signing looked bad to me when we made it... it looks now.

[1argoholic]

The Leafs are the bottom feeders of the original six which just makes me sick. It would be nice to have one of these Leaf teams over achieve for a change. Who thought Ottawa would be where they are this year? Every original six team has won at least one cup in the last 20 years except who?

[ArgoRavi]

The Leafs are the bottom feeders of the original six which just makes me sick. It would be nice to have one of these Leaf teams over achieve for a change. Who thought Ottawa would be where they are this year? Every original six team has won at least one cup in the last 20 years except who?

Other than the most recent expansion teams, the Leafs are one of the very few teams since 1967 who hasn't even made it to the Stanley Cup final. The Jets/Coyotes and Sharks have never made it to the Stanley Cup final during that time along with the Wild, Thrashers/Jets, Blue Jackets and Predators. Is there anyone else who hasn't made it to the finals over the last 40+ years?

[Will]

The Leafs are the bottom feeders of the original six which just makes me sick. It would be nice to have one of these Leaf teams over achieve for a change. Who thought Ottawa would be where they are this year? Every original six team has won at least one cup in the last 20 years except who?

The Bruins and Blackhawks just ended long droughts themselves, but yes it now puts the Leafs in that unenviable position.

They won 4-3 in OT against the Islanders and go into the break with two in a row.

[DanTheFan]

They just re-signed Liles to a four year extension: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=386045

I imagine he's almost ready to return. No doubt the Leafs will try to flip a defenseman or two at the trade deadline, especially if they can get a top six forward in a package deal. I'm sure there are many sports fans like myself that get sick of the build-up that comes with the NHL trade deadline in Canada, usually followed by questions of why the Leafs didn't get a deal done. If Burke's tenure with the Leafs is any indication, the biggest trade he'll end up making will probably be within a week or two from now.

[Will]

The Leafs took 3 out of 4 from the Penguins this week. They blew a 4-1 lead in the first game and lost 5-4 in the shootout before James Reimer shut them out 1-0 the next night after barely playing for the last month. The Leafs have a huge matchup with the Senators tomorrow. The Leafs aren't too far behind Ottawa and the Senators have been struggling so it's a big opportunity. Plus, losing to Ottawa really sucks!

[argolio]

Arguably the biggest Leaf game in years (which isn't saying a lot I realize), but it should be a great atmosphere.

[DanTheFan]

The Leafs took 3 out of 4 from the Penguins this week. They blew a 4-1 lead in the first game and lost 5-4 in the shootout before James Reimer shut them out 1-0 the next night after barely playing for the last month. The Leafs have a huge matchup with the Senators tomorrow. The Leafs aren't too far behind Ottawa and the Senators have been struggling so it's a big opportunity. Plus, losing to Ottawa really sucks!

Boy was I pissed off after that first Penguins game. Definitely a big opportunity game today. Easily my most anticipated Leaf game of the new year. Hopefully Leafs fans flood Ottawa like they often do.

[Will]

The Leafs responded big time tonight! The crowd is partisan to the Leafs as usual.

[DanTheFan]

Great game overall!! I guess we're riding Reimer for a while now.

[argolio]

Great game overall!! I guess we're riding Reimer for a while now.Super team effort.

I don't really have a problem playing either goalie at this point.

[294life]

boy if the habs could stop sucking we actually might help you guys out. we'll try to get win-a-pig off your tail today.

[1argoholic]

I'm thrilled with the play of the Leafs since the allstar break. They shouldn't have lost that game to the Pens as even with the issues in the third they should have had that Bozak goal. That would have been the win. The next night was a great game as was the big shutout against those tools in Ottawa. Lost even more respect from their fans during the allstar weekend. They hindered the team more than they helped. Tell be the Leafs weren't pumped to beat their asses last night.

[294life]

well the habs did the Leafs a small favor today. 3-0 blanking of the jets. 4 weeks before leafs-habs rematch.

[ArgoRavi]

well the habs did the Leafs a small favor today. 3-0 blanking of the jets. 4 weeks before leafs-habs rematch.

The Jets are fading just like I expect the Bombers to this year. After a great year for sports in Winnipeg in 2011, it could be a tough one for that city in 2012. The Leafs control their own destiny as far as making the playoffs and don't have to hop over four or five teams to do so as they have had to do the last few years.

[argolio]

The Jets are fading just like I expect the Bombers to this year. After a great year for sports in Winnipeg in 2011, it could be a tough one for that city in 2012. The Leafs control their own destiny as far as making the playoffs and don't have to hop over four or five teams to do so as they have had to do the last few years.Is that sound I hear Ravi jumping on the Leafs bandwagon? ;)

(This site needs better looking smileys.)

[294life]

Good luck tomorrow. Might want to triple team Gomez now that he scored a goal. :D

[ArgoRavi]

That was one ugly performance at home to Montreal on Mats Sundin Night. This team is a model of inconsistency.

[DanTheFan]

I stopped watching after the 2nd period. At least Mats had a good night.

[294life]

4 weeks before leafs-habs rematch.

guess I forgot about february 11th. now 3 weeks to go. RIP Whitney. Leafs still alive.... if reeling.

[1argoholic]

As to my original topic. The Leafs will fade..The Leafs won't fade...The Leafs will fade...The Leafs won't fade. Holy CRAP it depends on which three game stretch your talking about. If this lazy ass team makes the playoffs they'll be DONE in the first round. Plus you need a goalie in the NHL.

[argolio]

Two weeks 'til the trade deadline. Burke prefers to make trades before the last minute, so he'll likely do something this week if he's got something cooking.

[ArgoRavi]

Watching the Leafs and Canucks play is like watching Norway play Canada in international competition. I don't know how Elliotte Friedman can say that this is such a great rivalry when they only play a couple of times a year and Vancouver kicks the Leafs' asses every time.

[1argoholic]

You said it Ravi. No need to say any thing else.

Oh on a sidenote both the Leafs and Argos haven't won in Vancouver since I've lived here. Laughable.

[DanTheFan]

I stopped watching after 2 periods. I love how the Leafs declined an interview with Elliot at the end of the period. I never liked him as a broadcaster, and wonder if any of the Leafs shared some colourful words with him or just gave him the silent treatment.

[1argoholic]

Nice to watch local Vancouver new to see Maple Laughs lose to Canucks. They love to rip TO any chance they get and both the Leafs and Argos have made it very easy in the last ten years of playing out here. Once again this team is just crap. Sad shite!!

[R.J]

A very true and humorous tweet from Dave Naylor.
David William Naylor @TSNDaveNaylor
Funny to hear people say Leafs "have to make playoffs this year." Like, what's gonna happen if they don't? The ACC will be empty next fall??

[1argoholic]

Funny but very sad as well. Maybe it's time people stop going.

[Will]

Funny but very sad as well. Maybe it's time people stop going.

We all know that isn't going to happen.

[argolio]

I stopped watching after 2 periods. I love how the Leafs declined an interview with Elliot at the end of the period. I never liked him as a broadcaster, and wonder if any of the Leafs shared some colourful words with him or just gave him the silent treatment.I think that had everything to do with the Leafs stinking the joint out and nothing to do with Friedman.

[Will]

For whatever reason the Maple Leafs still hold 8th place or thereabouts in the Eastern Conference because the Washington Capitals also have the inability to win hockey games. The Maple Leafs have significant problems on the back-end and that's an understatement. It seems like every game they allow at least three goals! A trade for Rick Nash isn't going to fix anything IMO.

[ArgoRavi]

Well, the Leafs are definitely fading. Another bad loss to Washington tonight and Ron Wilson calls out James Reimer and all but blames him for the loss.

[1argoholic]

What about that so called Monster the other night with the very lame goals through the legs and the one going wide that he basically put in. Wilson should be blaming himself and Burke for picking basically two rookie goalies to carry the team or the goalie coach. Or how about the crap play infront of the goalies. Sad crap to watch year in and year out.

[DanTheFan]

I'm glad I didn't watch last night's game. Their play is making me depressed, and I'm certain their play is making them depressed as well.

[1argoholic]

Well the Leafs have been so good that Burke is sticking with what he has. Traded for the Marlies to improve with Ashton. Time to stick a fork in them. Does anyone expect them to come on all gang busters and make the playoffs? Leaf fans deserve more than this SH!T year in and year out.

[ArgoRavi]

Another devastating loss at home to Florida tonight. The Leafs are now four points back of Washington for the final playoff spot with only 19 games to go and they need to finish ahead of the Caps as it stands now. The Leafs also have a few teams such as Tampa suddenly breathing down their necks.

[1argoholic]

Well at this point Burke better stick with this team and keep adding a few quality pieces. Funny how Kassian was in the minors for Buffalo and a type of guy the Leafs could use. He goes to Vancouver and looked pretty good with the Canucks against the Coyotes tonight.

[argolio]

Hodgson is a much better player than Kassian IMO. Maybe the trade will work out for the Canucks, but they gave up a lot to get a player who is supposed to increase their chances of beating a team (the Bruins) they would only play in the Final.

As for the Leafs, it ain't over yet.....but it's pretty damn close.

[Mulder]

I am by no means a leaf fan, used to cheer for them, but no more.

Leafs need to go 13-6 or better over their final games to have a 50% chance of making the post season. just fyi!

[1argoholic]

They better just fold it up and continue the drop so they can at least get a fairly high draft pick. I do finally see light at the end of the tunnel. Young team with some very good talent in the minors. They'd be further ahead if Burke took this route when he first took over instead of the tough guy route.
Should be intersting to see how bad Chicago hammers them tonight.

[ArgoRavi]

They better just fold it up and continue the drop so they can at least get a fairly high draft pick. I do finally see light at the end of the tunnel. Young team with some very good talent in the minors. They'd be further ahead if Burke took this route when he first took over instead of the tough guy route.
Should be intersting to see how bad Chicago hammers them tonight.

They came closer tonight but still lost. It is hard to believe that there hasn't been Stanley Cup playoff hockey in Toronto since 2004. That is a long time.

[1argoholic]

Unreal to say the least and with the way they're playing it'll be a while longer. When you struggle not much goes your way. I'm not sure this team can put the run together that it needs to make the playoffs. At this point I'm hoping they drop right down and have a shot for a great draft pick that can play right away unlike Kadri.

[argonaut11xx]

The best way to make the Toronto Maple Leafs a better team on the ice....bring back the Toronto Toro's (as an NHL expansion team or move Pheonix).....nothing like some friendly competition to raise the bar .....

[1argoholic]

I've been a big Leaf fan all of my life but I refused to pay stupid money to watch crap. Most Leaf fans actually piss me off. At least the so called fans at games. Last game I went to was just before the last Grey Cup in TO. My buddy bought us tickets to see Boston. Leafs lost and half the joint was on their friggin blackberries. Are you a fan or what the F.

[Will]

I've been a big Leaf fan all of my life but I refused to pay stupid money to watch crap. Most Leaf fans actually piss me off. At least the so called fans at games. Last game I went to was just before the last Grey Cup in TO. My buddy bought us tickets to see Boston. Leafs lost and half the joint was on their friggin blackberries. Are you a fan or what the F.

That's the thing...half the lower bowl...well you know what I'm about to say because it's been said by about 1,000,000 different people at 1,000,000 different times.

[DanTheFan]

I've been a big Leaf fan all of my life but I refused to pay stupid money to watch crap. Most Leaf fans actually piss me off. At least the so called fans at games. Last game I went to was just before the last Grey Cup in TO. My buddy bought us tickets to see Boston. Leafs lost and half the joint was on their friggin blackberries. Are you a fan or what the F.

The only Leafs game I ever went to was in 1996 when I was 11. They played the Kings, and lost 5-2. The only reason I was there was that a friend of my dad gave us tickets that he probably couldn't use himself. I would definitely not pay to go to a Leafs game right now. Tickets will be expensive no matter how good they are, so I'll just wait till they are a genuine contender.

[1argoholic]

Now I'll there is to do is see how far the Leafs fall. I can see then being passed by everyone in the east except perhaps Montreal. How long does Burke hold onto his job with this F'ing gongshow he's supplied the fans. It's rebuilding every year. Looking at their schedule I'd be surprised if they win four or five more games. Sad..sad shite!!!

[argolio]

How long does Burke hold onto his jobHe's safe until next season (2nd last year of his contract). If the Leafs miss the playoffs in 12-13, I think he'll be fired.

[ArgoRavi]

Now I'll there is to do is see how far the Leafs fall. I can see then being passed by everyone in the east except perhaps Montreal. How long does Burke hold onto his job with this F'ing gongshow he's supplied the fans. It's rebuilding every year. Looking at their schedule I'd be surprised if they win four or five more games. Sad..sad shite!!!

IIRC, the only teams that they have beaten over the last month are Montreal and Edmonton in OT and those are two of the worst teams in the league. I think that the fact has to be faced that the Leafs are simply not a good team at this point and are a fair way from being one.

[argonaut11xx]

The way the new coach will push these guys, they could slip into the playoffs...even with the injury to Lupol

[Will]

The way the new coach will push these guys, they could slip into the playoffs...even with the injury to Lupol

Their margin of error is extremely small. I fear the firing of Wilson might've been done too late.

[argonaut11xx]

Their margin of error is extremely small. I fear the firing of Wilson might've been done too late.

I agree,..but that said...anything can happen there is still a month left

[Mulder]

Their margin of error is extremely small. I fear the firing of Wilson might've been done too late.


The only thing that'll do it is winning 11 of their remaining 15 games.

They lose to either Florida, TB or WASH this coming week and they are done. 3 must win games in a row and if they lose any they won't make to the post season.

[1argoholic]

Oh they are DONE!!! I really can't believe how far they've fallen to be honest. You can't win games with horrible D and each game the other team gets at least one or two gift goals. They're not many points from last in the east. Didn't they hang out in first in the east for the first two weeks of the season? They've had plenty of bad years lately but this takes the cake. Burke started in TO with a tougher team and then switched to a faster more skilled team. Now they are trying to be a bit of both and frankly it's a cluster F as they say. I have to agree with Don Cherry. We need some TO boys or Ontario guys on the team who play their hearts out for the team they grew up cheering for.
I honestly didn't think they'd fade like this when I started this topic. Sad seeing other original six teams thrive. Hell even Montreal had a great playoff run a few years back.
Never mind booing and calling for coaches to be fired. Leaf fans have to avoid the ACC to really show how they feel but that'll never happen.

[DanTheFan]

I wasn't too big on Don Cherry's comments. While it would be cool to have a few local guys on the team, his argument was born out of frustration of their horrid play of late. Similar to the argument of having a French speaking coach for the Habs, the issue wouldn't matter if they were in a playoff position.

[argolio]

I wasn't too big on Don Cherry's comments. While it would be cool to have a few local guys on the team, his argument was born out of frustration of their horrid play of late.It's nice to have Ontario guys, but you still need the right ones. When Cherry ran the Mississauga Ice Dogs, his teams were among the worst in the history of the league.

[DanTheFan]

I missed the first 1/2 of the 1st of this one, but I'm assuming it was as boring as the rest of the game. Still, always happy to see the Leafs put up a shutout (minus the shootout). BTW, great move by Giroux!! Buffalo beat Ottawa, so does that bump playoff odds past one in a million yet??

[ArgoRavi]

Today's game in Washington is pretty much do or die for the Leafs. I don't think that they will make the playoffs even if they win in regulation today but everyone can at least pretend that they still have a chance if they can come away with a regulation victory. A loss would end any remaining hope and even an OT/shootout victory wouldn't do much for them.

It is hard to believe that the Leafs seemed to be in the driver's seat only a month or so ago for making the playoffs and perhaps even finishing as high as sixth or seventh place.

[ArgoRavi]

After a 2-0 loss in Washington, I would say that we can stick a fork in the Leafs as they are done for another season.

[Mulder]

After a 2-0 loss in Washington, I would say that we can stick a fork in the Leafs as they are done for another season.

http://www.sportsclubstats.com/NHL/Eastern/Northeast/Toronto.html

They pretty much have to run the table.

even if they go 11-2 gives them a 70% chance. My bet. Leafs will start to make their annual push to be 9th right now :)

[DanTheFan]

Leafs will start to make their annual push to be 9th right now :)

Here we go again. :ohno:

[1argoholic]

I just hope they fall as close to the bottom as possible at this point. Then we can at least get a great draft pick. This will go down as one of the biggest busts in Leaf history. Many didn't expect playoffs for this team but many did. I don't think people saw this drop in play. They have folded.

[argonaut11xx]

well, after losing last night to Florida looks like Carlisle will assess, and RELOAD for next year...its a bummer...but probabaly better than sneaking in the playoffs

[1argoholic]

With this team it's plain and simple and it starts with Burke all the way down, THEY SUCK and he totally over estimated the talent they have. This team will go down as having one of the biggest down turns in history. 2-13-2 in their last 17 when other teams are playing like hell to get into the playoffs. This team has ZERO heart. They could and most likely will end up as the worst team in the east. They have no clue how to win. Burke blew it when he had the chance to trade some of these stiffs. Who's going to want a bunch of heartless losers now? Once Florida makes the playoffs the Leafs will be the only team not to make the playoffs since the lockout year. The laughing stock of the league and morons still fill the ACC. Maybe Cherry has a point with no players from Ontario on the roster. Get some guys who grew up in the GTA and would play hard for the team they grew up watching. These guys are obviously taking the organization for a ride while taking home big pay cheques. Hope Burke doesn't waste a very good draft pick.

[1argoholic]

Holy crap!!!!! The Leafs won a game.

[ArgoRavi]

Holy crap!!!!! The Leafs won a game.

Yeah, they can't get anything right. Now is the time to continue losing so that they get a higher draft pick. They will probably go over .500 the rest of the way which will result in a lower draft pick and Brian Burke and his bloated front office staff thinking that they have the team headed in the right direction after all.

[1argoholic]

Exactly. They'll make it into a position that the guy they draft isn't NHL ready. I was very surprised to see that they won.

[argolio]

Saying a team should tank sounds sensible, but that has everything to do with the fantasy world the fans live in and nothing to do with the team. You can't make players try to lose, and you also can't call up a bunch of minor league guys to play the rest of the schedule.

Who thought the Argos would (or could) win three of their last four in 2011? That's why they play the games.

[1argoholic]

Obviously they should get a solid draft pick even if they stay right where they are. It'll be an American guy. haha.

[ArgoRavi]

The Leafs are losing 8-0 to Boston as I type this. It is quite apparent that this team is a long way from being any sort of contender.

[1argoholic]

Burke has to go! This team is going backwards. He's a prick and to top it all off he has no clue how to build a team anymore. The Leafs are the laughing stock of the league. Boston just loves seeing these saps come to town. There D is like swiss cheese as is there goaltending. They are a very week lame team. Domi could still pound the crap out of any one of these guys. It really pisses me off. The sickest think are the dumb asses that will continue to fill the seats at the ACC. They are the true morons in this whole scene.

[argolio]

It really pisses me off. The sickest think are the dumb asses that will continue to fill the seats at the ACC. They are the true morons in this whole scene.I don't blame the average fan for that. Most of the seats are sold to corporate interests or long-time season-ticket holders (which are often split between 2 or more people). If a fan wants to go to a game or two a season and has no access to any freebies, they can get tickets at the box office for some mid-week games (which is not practical for everyone) against low-profile opponents, but usually they have to pay some scummy scalper an arm and a leg for a Saturday night game or a game against a marquee team. And I wouldn't be surprised if MLSE takes advantage of this huge demand for a limited supply by getting a cut from those scummy scalpers.

[argonaut11xx]

stick a fork in em....there done like dinner...last night was very SAD...8-0...geesh, i'd have rather sat through a soccer game...(oops)

[1argoholic]

They've seen some really shite years but this could take the cake. This team has zero to build on. They can their coach and still continue to crap it. Burke has no clue. He should be next. It's difficult to be a Leaf fan living in Canucklehead territory. I have to admit I won't be wearing to much Leaf stuff out my door. Once again they've sucked the Leaf pride out of me.
They need two goalies, D, scoring, getting bigger, tougher but with guys that can actually play. Burke will waste his high draft pick on a US guy out of college who won't be ready to suit up for four years if ever.

[argonaut11xx]

the effort last night against NYI was sad..very very sad....

they have a very good coach now...but not alot else

[Will]

The Maple Leafs collapse has been completely and utterly embarassing. If the Florida Panthers make the playoffs this year the Leafs will then be the team with the longest playoff drought in the National Hockey League. To put it into perspective, the last time the Maple Leafs made the playoffs I was in Grade 11! What's more disturbing is the way that it happened; the team was doing perfectly fine until a one-goal loss in Winnipeg, which sent the season spiralling out of control. I remember Jeff Blair discussing it on the radio the day after (the Winnipeg loss) saying it wasn't a big deal, etc., but it certainly is now given what has since occurred.

[DanTheFan]

TSN headline "Leafs look to keep playoff chances alive against Rangers": http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=391252 :ohno:

[Will]

TSN headline "Leafs look to keep playoff chances alive against Rangers": http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=391252 :ohno:

They got one point out of it--I think someone in the paper said that with the win over New Jersey on Friday that they've guaranteed that they won't be eliminated until April, not that it makes any difference.

[ArgoRavi]

They got one point out of it--I think someone in the paper said that with the win over New Jersey on Friday that they've guaranteed that they won't be eliminated until April, not that it makes any difference.

If my math is correct, the Leafs' tragic number is only four points (they are nine points behind the Sabres with only six games remaining). That is, any combination of Buffalo points gained and Leafs points lost equalling four eliminates the Leafs from the playoffs. I would expect that to happen within the next week.

[1argoholic]

It happened at the begining of the season with Burke missing the mark yet again.

[argonaut11xx]

they leafs have a good base for next season...and the right coach to do it...

[ArgoRavi]

Well the Leafs completed their fade with a listless 3-0 home loss to Carolina which officially eliminated them from playoff contention for the seventh season in a row. It looks like they may be battling with Montreal for 14th place in the East from here on in.

[argolio]

Ravi, listless would have been a step up from this game.

5 games left: PHI, BUF, @BUF, TB, @MON

The Leafs can finish anywhere from 21st to 29th. Assuming the first three games are losses (and it's always dangerous to assume), the last two will determine their final position.

[Will]

Ravi, listless would have been a step up from this game.

5 games left: PHI, BUF, @BUF, TB, @MON

The Leafs can finish anywhere from 21st to 29th. Assuming the first three games are losses (and it's always dangerous to assume), the last two will determine their final position.

The problem with tanking this year is that the draft class isn't great.

[argonaut11xx]

I gave my tickets for the saturday game vs the Sabre's away..... its just too painful to watch...

[1argoholic]

I honestly didn't see this coming when I started this post way back when. Do people remember when Buffalo was all in a panic about how bad they were? WOW this year has seen one of the worst falls in Leaf history. Never mind Burke they need to can Alier or however you spell the goaltending coaches name. These guys hit their knees when the shooter is still coming over the blueline. How many top corner goals does a team have to give up. Plus they lear away from the shot not into it. Plus as Cherry says to the skaters, get your sticks out of the way. So many tips by Leaf d into top corners.

[argolio]

Plus as Cherry says to the skaters, get your sticks out of the way. So many tips by Leaf d into top corners.Cherry is an idiot. Far more goals are prevented doing that than are caused.

[1argoholic]

Every night all over the league when you watch highlights tips are going in off the defending teams sticks. It happens every friggin game with the Leafs. It's difficult to stop a natural reaction of trying to get a stick infront of a shot. Plus if your goalies are any good they should be able to stop some of those tipped shots. Lets face it even if the shot weren't tipped they would be juicy rebounds. I have zero faith in the Leaf goalies or D at this point. Tonight I at least get to see a loss televised nationally. I hope the slide continues at this point. No point in winning now.

[ArgoRavi]

Tonight I at least get to see a loss televised nationally.

I guess you get stuck watching all of the Canucks games. One of the few things that I don't miss about living in Ottawa was being stuck with the Sens on TV all of the time. Come playoff time, it was annoying having to live with Senators-mania.

[R.J]

Tonight's game was atrocious, no fight in those players and even less heart. Aside from Grabo, Leafs fans should be disgusted by what's being put on the ice. Burke really created a mess here, and funny enough when he came here he stated "I don't believe in 5 year plans, we're going to build on the fly", how has that worked out so far ?

[argolio]

In terms of the game and the crowd reaction, tonight's game was almost as ugly as the 2008 Argo game vs Winnipeg.

I bet the Leafs wish all their remaining games were on the road.

[ArgoRavi]

Tonight's game was atrocious, no fight in those players and even less heart. Aside from Grabo, Leafs fans should be disgusted by what's being put on the ice. Burke really created a mess here, and funny enough when he came here he stated "I don't believe in 5 year plans, we're going to build on the fly", how has that worked out so far ?

I was having a conversation with someone the other day about how when the Leafs were bad in the 1980s, at least there was still Harold Ballard to keep everyone entertained. Today, there is just this faceless corporate entity behind this very bad team. Burke talks about how they have a number of prospects but I remember the Leafs of the '80s having lots of prospects too and we all know how that turned out. I am not sure that there has been a darker time for the Leafs franchise in the last 45 years than what we are presently seeing.

[argolio]

The Leafs of the 80s didn't have a lot of prospects, and of the ones they had, they rushed too many of them to the big club. And Ballard was entertaining, but he was also cheap as hell.

Burke has put a lot of emphasis on developing young players. We'll just have to see how many of them develop (assuming he'll be around to see it).

[1argoholic]

They will give up on plenty of their young guys who'll go and play solid in smaller markets. Just look at some of the former Leafs doing pretty well in places like St Louis. I just hope they don't ruin a bunch of good young talent. Tonight was indeed very sad. In my almost 50 years and a fan since a very young age I don't recall a Leaf team fading this bad. Since Feb they've just DIED. Burke has created a mess. He cleaned house when he got here and started wanting a tough lineup but that changed and it seems to be changing back a bit again with Rosehill playing again. They don't know what the hell they're doing now. Nice to live in Canucks country as a Leaf fan.
By the way you should see the sappy lame ads they are running here for The Canucks now. This is home with a bunch of Canucks, former Canucks and fans trying to show that you shouldn't trash your hometown. Maybe they should lay off the killer strong BC Bud and alcohol with the redbull chasers and the city will be fine.

[argonaut11xx]

after hearing the chants of "Lets go Blue jays" at last nights game.....

i wish i would have kept my tickets for tomorrows game....only to be able to start a good....

AAAAA...RRRRRR...GGGGGG...OOOOOOO....SSSSSSSSSSSS

hehe

[1argoholic]

That would be nice to hear. Man how low can they go?

[1argoholic]

Nice to see them beat Buffalo as well as the Rock heading into Buffalo and beating the Bandits. A very rare GREAt night for Toronto teams. Hopefully we put a wrench in the plans of both of those teams as far as playoffs go.

[marcwagz]

if toronto loses saturday to montreal they can get the fourth overall pick in the 2012 draft
if they win they get 7th

I think the choice is obvious

[argolio]

if toronto loses saturday to montreal they can get the fourth overall pick in the 2012 draft
if they win they get 7th

I think the choice is obviousAs if there's a "choice" at all. Will me yelling "lose Leafs, lose!" at my T.V. make any difference at all? Only in the imagination-land of some deluded fan-boys.

Both teams will try to win (as in any other game), and the chips will fall where they will.

[marcwagz]

As if there's a "choice" at all. Will me yelling "lose Leafs, lose!" at my T.V. make any difference at all? Only in the imagination-land of some deluded fan-boys.

Both teams will try to win (as in any other game), and the chips will fall where they will.

would be better for the organization to toss the game, had they not gone on crappy end of year winning streaks in the past when they were already out of the playoffs they would have some better prospects already.

[argolio]

Teams do not intentionally toss games.

[marcwagz]

gm's do intentionally put worse teams on the ice/court/field though

[argolio]

No they don't. Anyone who believes a G.M. would intentionally endanger his chances of future employment is a fool. Not to mention that an NHL G.M. has little leeway to even try that in the cap era.

But for the sake of argument, I'd love to hear exactly what the Leafs should do to guarantee losing this one game to Montreal.

[1argoholic]

It still comes down to drafting the right guy. Right now they need a whole bunch of help.

[ArgoRavi]

From what I have read, this draft isn't a particularly notable one. I think that the Leafs should draft P.K. Subban's brother who is a goaltender and they may even be able to trade down in the first round and still get him. There is no need for shenanigans on Saturday night.

[Will]

From what I have read, this draft isn't a particularly notable one. I think that the Leafs should draft P.K. Subban's brother who is a goaltender and they may even be able to trade down in the first round and still get him. There is no need for shenanigans on Saturday night.

No, the draft isn't supposed to be very notable. Goalies are rarely drafted in the first round Ravi.

[marcwagz]

there are much better talents of note than subbans brother.

there are 6 projected top line talents in this draft who would help the leafs

Yakupov, Grigorenko, Galchenyuk, Murray, Forsberg and Dumba

Grigs and Gally are centermen which is what the leafs need, murray and Dumba are dmen, murray is considered pretty much nhl ready.


You need to have at best the fifth worst record to hope to get the 1st overall pick (yakupov) because in the nhl lottery a team can only move up four spaces max.

After those six the rest of the pack is just projected to be grinders and not notable at the NHL level.

[marcwagz]

From what I have read, this draft isn't a particularly notable one. I think that the Leafs should draft P.K. Subban's brother who is a goaltender and they may even be able to trade down in the first round and still get him. There is no need for shenanigans on Saturday night.

if we get a top 6 pick in no way on hell and earth should burke be allowed to trade down.
that would be a sure firing.

As for your doubting that GM's dont put bad teams out on purpose, they really do.

Look at the NBA. Colangelo could have signed way better players then he did, but he only signed mediocre players to one or 2 year contracts because he wanted another good pick this year.
The only problem is there are like 8 TANKING TEAMS in the NBA this year. Don't believe me, watch a game, they literally TRY TO LOSE its pathetic especially if they are playing against another bad team.

[argolio]

This is team sports, not scripted pro wrestling. I challenge you to give me irrefutable proof (not involving your imagination) that professional players TRY TO LOSE games.

[ArgoRavi]

No, the draft isn't supposed to be very notable. Goalies are rarely drafted in the first round Ravi.

While goalies are rarely drafted in the first round, Malcolm Subban is projected to be a first round pick. The Leafs need goaltending help badly and while he wouldn't be ready for a couple of years, I still say that the Leafs should draft him and perhaps by the time that they can contend for anything, Subban will be ready to contribute at the NHL level.

[argolio]

While goalies are rarely drafted in the first round, Malcolm Subban is projected to be a first round pick. The Leafs need goaltending help badly and while he wouldn't be ready for a couple of years, I still say that the Leafs should draft him and perhaps by the time that they can contend for anything, Subban will be ready to contribute at the NHL level.He might still be there in the second round if the Leafs are interested. If he has anything close to the competitive level of his brother, he'd be worth a shot.

[marcwagz]

its impossible to give you proof because obviously nobody would ever admit to it
but do you honestly think the oilers were doing the best they could to hire players to win games the last 3 years? think they were sad about being in last place?

[marcwagz]

hurray for 5th overall pick!!!
draft lottery on tuesday

[1argoholic]

Well it's fifth worst in the league and most likely where they'll end up in the draft. I'm not sure I even trust Burke to not screw it up. We'll see yet another rebuild next year...blah..blah..blah.

[Will]

While goalies are rarely drafted in the first round, Malcolm Subban is projected to be a first round pick. The Leafs need goaltending help badly and while he wouldn't be ready for a couple of years, I still say that the Leafs should draft him and perhaps by the time that they can contend for anything, Subban will be ready to contribute at the NHL level.

The problem is the Leafs need help anywhere--defense, centre, top-six winger, you name it.

[argolio]

its impossible to give you proof because obviously nobody would ever admit to it
but do you honestly think the oilers were doing the best they could to hire players to win games the last 3 years? think they were sad about being in last place?Yes, I believe their players tried their best because players act like players, not like fans. They play to win. I bet they were pissed instead of sad because they hate being embarrassed, and the better the team does, the more likely they are to find future employment either with the Oilers or with another team. And if a bunch of players actually conspired to lose, you'd hear about it eventually because that many people can't keep quiet forever (see the New Orleans Saints)

It isn't some giant plot why the Oilers have been a bad team. Every team is in a different stage of development, and every team has differing levels of management expertise, team chemistry, injuries, luck, etc. Some teams figure it out better than others. Otherwise you'd see every team finish around .500.

And after two #1 picks plus some highly rated prospects from before that, the Oilers zoomed all the way from 30th to 29th. Now maybe they'll become a playoff team in the next few years, but maybe they won't. High draft picks mean nothing unless you can develop a full team, and properly manage the cap.

[1argoholic]

It's such a house of cards putting a team together. Will they continue to grow together and stay strong for years such as the Red Wings or be one year wonders like many teams. I just hope that Vancouver craps it and then starts to fade while The Leafs finally start to head in the right direction. I still hold out hope that TO will be the next Canadian team to hoist the cup.

They do need plenty of help and a new goalie coach in my books.

[marcwagz]

Yes, I believe their players tried their best because players act like players, not like fans. They play to win. I bet they were pissed instead of sad because they hate being embarrassed, and the better the team does, the more likely they are to find future employment either with the Oilers or with another team. And if a bunch of players actually conspired to lose, you'd hear about it eventually because that many people can't keep quiet forever (see the New Orleans Saints)

It isn't some giant plot why the Oilers have been a bad team. Every team is in a different stage of development, and every team has differing levels of management expertise, team chemistry, injuries, luck, etc. Some teams figure it out better than others. Otherwise you'd see every team finish around .500.

And after two #1 picks plus some highly rated prospects from before that, the Oilers zoomed all the way from 30th to 29th. Now maybe they'll become a playoff team in the next few years, but maybe they won't. High draft picks mean nothing unless you can develop a full team, and properly manage the cap.
most fans believe this was the last year of their tank

I am willing to bet this year their management pushes hard to sign free agents and next year they finish 20th at worst

[argolio]

I am willing to bet this year their management pushes hard to sign free agents and next year they finish 20th at worstWow, 20th at worst. I'm sure the Oilers will be happy to spend tens of millions on free agents to aim that high.