2014 Argos

[jerrym]

Time to dream.
While I would love to keep Collaros, there are only two chances of that happening: slim and none, and I wouldn't bet on the first choice as he will be drafted by Ottawa, signed as a free agent or traded so we get something for him because he has already indicated he wants to be #1 qb now. Future Hall-of-Famer Ray is simply too great to give up in order to keep a very promising young qb (many of whom in the past did not have the glorious careers that were projected for them). Harris has shown some promise in his brief appearances.
At running back, there are major questions, not about the talent of Kackert but his ability to avoid injuries. Norwood showed he is a very capable RB but there are also questions about his health, which is not surprising as he is a 30 year old RB (and will be 31 in July 2014) who already had plenty of wear and tear on him from his NFL days when he became an Argo. In the Eastern Final he was injured once again in the second quarter and never carried the ball again although he still blocked. The fact that they did not replace him with Steele suggests they do not have a lot of faith in him. Furthermore, at 37 next year, Jeff Johnson would be a RB Methuselah, and Woodson has not shown much as a college or pro player since his second college in 2007 when he gained 1,183 yards and then was seriously injured early the next year. The Argos need to do some serious recruiting for both import and non-import RBs. They need a capable Canadian backup who is at least serviceable if the import(s) go down in a game, even if this means making a trade or signing a free agent. We definitely missed having a decent Canadian backup yesterday.
As a group we have a lot of talent and depth. However, the Argos need to stop using Owens on ST, not simply because, after so much wear and tear, he is not anywhere near the super special teams player of his first three years with the Argos, but keeping him on ST is almost certainly going to shorten his career as one of the league's most outstanding receivers due to the ever growing number of injuries. Therefore the Argos need to do some recruiting of returners for training camp.
The offensive line does a reasonable job on pass defence but is spotty on run blocking, but this could be a function of Milanovich's pass-heavy offence. When BC put more focus on run blocking late in the season, it produced big results, especially when combined with an alternating RB Harris-Logan system. The Argos failure to run in the second half of the EF, IMO, contributed to Hamilton being able pin back their ears and focus on getting to Ray. We need a better pass-run balance.
Kickingwise, Waters is the best punter in the league and has shown great consistency in FG kicking once he got in the groove. A respectable Canadian backup for the future and for insurance would be an asset on the PR.
Our linebackers probably are our most talented defensive players.
Gabriel is one of the fastest improving players in the league and Watkins, when not injured or missing, provides all-star coverage. However, the Argos should bring in lots of defensive backs to challenge the other incumbents. Robinson has a nose for the ball but is not very good in coverage as was seen yesterday against Fantuz. If the Argos are going to sign any quality free agents, this should be one of their top priorities.
Mitchell provides an anchor to the defensive line, Maybin may develop into a good DE but is still pretty green. In general, however, there were too many times this year when other teams could easily run through the DL. In other words, serious recruiting is needed here as well.

[AngeloV]

Great post jerrym. I agree totally with your analysis.

[paulwoods13]

Good analysis, especially about the offence. I think you understate the importance of recruiting new DBs, LBs and d-linemen. I doubt Mitchell will be back, and I'm worried we will lose Ball to free agency. We have major holes to fill in all three areas. I would like to see Barker deviate from his usual strategy by signing a few CFL free agents to fill some of those holes.

[Argo57]

Spot on guys,
Have to sign Ball, Khalif Mitchell will leave but to be honest I wasn't overly impressed with his season as a whole, gut feeling but Patrick Watkins is finished in Toronto.
O-line perhaps needs a "minor tune-up" Joe Eppele was inconsistent at best, Matt Sewell may allow some more flexibility as well.
D-Line, start over second from last in sacks is not good enough, lack of pass rush put way too much pressure on the defensive secondary (as seen this season).
Sad to say this but don't see Chad Kackert returning to last seasons form period, great guy with a ton of talent but these major injuries take their toll.
Barker and staff (whomever) stays will need to have a stellar off season in regards to recruiting!!
Jerry is spot on with his comments above.

[ArgoGabe22]

I hope the guys who management want to see back buy into Milanovich's philosphy and see the accomplishments this team has achieved. I hope they want to be back and will re-sign before free agency hits rather then test the open market. Also if NFL opportunities arise and fail that the Argos are their first choice if they choose to return to the CFL.

[Will]

DE is our biggest position of need followed by HB in the secondary I think.

[1argoholic]

I think we're in for major changes on both sides. I hope this doesn't mean crapping out bigtime. This team has always been up and down like a yoyo through history. Too many issues to think about. I leave that up to the powers that be.

[doubleblue]

Good post jerrym. Article in the Toronto Sun today Collaros pretty well confirms he won't be back with the Argos next year. Has instructed his agent to explore NFL possibilities as well as CFL. He wants to be a starter and understands that the QB situation in Toronto is Ricky Ray's position for the immediate future. So it looks like Harris will move up to be #2 behind Ricky next year with Portis and Gale lining up for #3 and #4. FA Marcus Ball will also be looking at all his options both sides of the border. I'm starting to think Ottawa is going to get stiffed again on this expansion draft, as it looks like most of the teams GM's played the game of letting many of their players play out their option this year. I would hope that Marcel Desjardins is letting the player agents know that he will have money to spend on Free Agents come February.

[Argo]

I think we're in for major changes on both sides. I hope this doesn't mean crapping out bigtime. This team has always been up and down like a yoyo through history. Too many issues to think about. I leave that up to the powers that be.

Yes indeed. This is going to be an extraordinarily challenging and somewhat unique offseason for the GM and coaching staff. It seems to me that the Argos (already) need to get better everywhere except the receiving corps (assuming it stays as currently constituted) and perhaps the QB slate (*). And losing Ball, in particular, would not be much fun.

I don't expect the team to plunge to the bottom, however we'll really see the calibre of those running the team before the opening kickoff next season.

I'm not sure there's enough data at this point to deduce if / how much Collaros is a better QB than Harris. In any case, every team in football should always try to strengthen at QB.

Collaros, IMO, is better suited to the CFL and would likely fare better in our league as opposed to the NFL, at least for the foreseeable future. Best of luck to him in any case.

Oh, and finally, good for you Spencer Watt.

(*) P.S. No complaint about our kicker :)

[Shatto]

The Offense would look to need just a few changes:
The offensive line is pretty well set but we may lose Epple in the draft--Sewell could be a good replacemt
At QB Collaros will not likely return, don't be surprised to see Portis become # 2 -he has looked good in praticice--big, mobile and has a great arm
The receivers are strong and likely to remain the same with Adams possiby replacing Barnes
At RB, I see Kackert bouncing back for a good year with Norwood and possibly a new recruit battling for backup
The Defence needs drastic overhauling:
On the D line, Maybin has potential but needs to improve, Thomas showed well at times, Laing had an excellent rookie year, don't expect to see Mitchell return. Line must improve their rush on the QB
LB's are strong but there are questions --will Ball return(please yes) will McCune's age catch up with him, can Morley continue to play at a high level
DB's need improvement --Jones stresses the need for DB's to cover man on man and only Watkins has shown consistency in that area. Thorpe looks like he has real potential and Branden Smith was described by his coaches at the Shrine All-Star game--as the best athlete on the field. Suspect Gabriel will beat out Black. That still leaves 2 more DB needed--can't wait to see the competition at next years camp.

[ArgoRavi]

Regarding Robert McCune, according to the Sun, he too will be a free agent in February.

[AngeloV]

The Offense would look to need just a few changes:
The offensive line is pretty well set but we may lose Epple in the draft--Sewell could be a good replacemt
At QB Collaros will not likely return, don't be surprised to see Portis become # 2 -he has looked good in praticice--big, mobile and has a great arm
The receivers are strong and likely to remain the same with Adams possiby replacing Barnes
At RB, I see Kackert bouncing back for a good year with Norwood and possibly a new recruit battling for backup
The Defence needs drastic overhauling:
On the D line, Maybin has potential but needs to improve, Thomas showed well at times, Laing had an excellent rookie year, don't expect to see Mitchell return. Line must improve their rush on the QB
LB's are strong but there are questions --will Ball return(please yes) will McCune's age catch up with him, can Morley continue to play at a high level
DB's need improvement --Jones stresses the need for DB's to cover man on man and only Watkins has shown consistency in that area. Thorpe looks like he has real potential and Branden Smith was described by his coaches at the Shrine All-Star game--as the best athlete on the field. Suspect Gabriel will beat out Black. That still leaves 2 more DB needed--can't wait to see the competition at next years camp.

Nice first post Shatto. Welcome aboard.

I've been talking the same way about Portis all year. To me, he will be #2 next year as I assume Collaros will not be back. I'll even go so far as to say the Argos hid him all year so that they would not potentially lose him in the Ottawa draft.

[OV Argo]

I wonder if Barker (and other CFL GMs) might look to do some serious trading before the expansion draft - to acquire some players who will have to be exposed in that draft ? - better to get something for a player than just letting him get scooped.

There is IMO some potential very good NI talent on CFL rosters who have been just back-ups so far and who might be acquired in a pre-draft trade - Argos could address some team needs there. For example - everybody seems to agree on DE - and i previously mentioned Capiciotti (Esks), Gascon-Nadon (Ticats) and D'Aguliar (Stamps) (the latter 2 barely played on D this past season) - all 3 have arguably way better college ball resumes than David Lee (who has played and done well at times for the Argos) - so maybe attempt to trade for one of those guys; jerrym mentions RB and particularly a NI back - how bout Matt Walter (Stamps) who has looked very good to outstanding when he has got to play for the Stamps - who will be protecting Cornish there of course.

Have to give up something of value to get players in a trade of course, but IMO the Argos have some tradeable assets - like Collaros, or maybe Van Zeyl or Eppelle or Washington from the O-Line (NI O-Line depth/youth could be very good with Holmes and Sewell (if he shows)) or a vet receiver like Barnes or Bryant; CFL teams could also make a deal with Ottawa after they draft (is pre-arranged stuff allowed there? - you draft so& so and then we'll trade you something for them after?)

Hope Barker is really active and like paulwoods says - look at all options including known CFL FAs or other guys you could trade for - and not just thinking he can find good new import players - his guys - easily.

As far as O-Line - really hope J. King is coming back at OT as IMO he was just outstanding mostly when he played this year; and if Sewell reports and Holmes maybe tried at OT too (could go back to guard where he played and learned this year) - could be a couple of young stud OTs for the Argos for years there.

Cory Greenwood watch ? - still on the Detroit injured list i believe ? - maybe he will be done in the NFL if he fails to do much this year? - love to see him show for the Argos and be an impact MLB - but still a lot to prove of course.

[Argocister]

".....................

I've been talking the same way about Portis all year. To me, he will be #2 next year as I assume Collaros will not be back. I'll even go so far as to say the Argos hid him all year so that they would not potentially lose him in the Ottawa draft.

SHhhhhhhhhh! Never know who's lurking. ;)

So how many players could the Argos lose in the draft to the Rouge et Noir ..... 1-4?
And another aspect that will change this year is the new CBA. When is that finalized. That may help in keeping some of our FAs.
Another question I have ...... Gabriel may succeed in taking over Blacks position, but with them both NIs, wouldn't Barker want to keep both?

Playing the GM for 2014, would be a fun game but very confusing this year. Another twist to next years "planning a roster",is the draft will be affected by not having the 3 rd year/ junior players to choose from. I'm not sure if that will reduce the numbers by much, but at least 5-10 draftees. Also the timing of the NFL draft, may affect the top prospects for our draft .:(

It would be interesting to have a "fantasy" 2014 Argo team ...... See who is the closest!

[Shatto]

It would be theoretically possible, to trade Collaros to Winnipeg but the question is, how much would Winnipeg be willing to give up for the trade. Since he is a free agent mid Feb, all they would be getting, is the exclusive right to negotiate with him until Feb. I'm not sure that would be enough to pry a good player away from Winnipeg.
Just an aside--Shane Horton's father played 6 games for the Argos in 1975---does anyone know if there has been any other case of father and son playing for the Argos

[jerrym]

jerrym mentions RB and particularly a NI back - how bout Matt Walter (Stamps) who has looked very good to outstanding when he has got to play for the Stamps - who will be protecting Cornish there of course.

I agree. Matt Walter would be my first realistic choice as I think there is no chance of getting Cornish or Harris, Messam is too much of a head case, and McCarty will be 30 next year and has rushed for less than 100 yards total in the last two years despite seasons of up to 490 yards earlier in his career. Walter, who is only 25 next year, has also had a few kick returns and a ST tackles, but I don't know what kind of contract he has. Furthermore, he was born in Calgary and played for the University of Calgary so he may not be interested in going elsewhere.

[argofandave]

Wayne Smith Sr. played from 1977-79 and Wayne Smith Jr. from 2012-13.

[ArgoRavi]

Wayne Smith Sr. played from 1977-79 and Wayne Smith Jr. from 2012-13.

I have never been clear on whether the current Wayne Smith is the son of the defensive lineman from the 1970s. I have heard conflicting reports over the years about that but was under the impression that they are not related.

[argofandave]

I remember when the Tiger-Cats drafted Wayne Jr. first overall in 2004, they referred to him as the son of the former Argo but maybe they were wrong.

[doubleblue]

I have never been clear on whether the current Wayne Smith is the son of the defensive lineman from the 1970s. I have heard conflicting reports over the years about that but was under the impression that they are not related. When the current Wayne Smith was drafted by Hamilton, the story was in the papers that he was the son of the Wayne Smith who played DE for Ottawa and later the Argos. Different body type though. Wayne Sr. was about 6'4 250 and Wayne Jr. is about 6'1 300. Maybe he takes after his Mother's side, that happens sometimes.

[argofandave]

I couldn't find anything online which shows the two Wayne Smiths being related. There's a phone interview on the Argos website from April 2012 when the younger Smith signed with the Argos and he talks about being born in Etobicoke (in 1979) and growing up in Florida and occasionally coming back to Etobicoke to visit his father but there is no mention of his father ever playing for the Argos........I'm sure that Peter Martin (1965-72) and PJ Martin (1995) are father and son.

[paulwoods13]

Little-known fact: Peter Gabriel, who played for the Argos briefly in the late 1970s, was also the lead singer for Genesis.

[ArgoGabe22]

Little-known fact: Peter Gabriel, who played for the Argos briefly in the late 1970s, was also the lead singer for Genesis.

Paul, surely someone like yourself knows this is not true and I hope you are just having a little fun.

[paulwoods13]

Aw nuts, that didn't take long.

But he was Tony Gabriel's brother. Too bad he didn't have Tony's ability. That guy (TG) did more to crush Argo hopes in the 1970s than anyone else.

[ArgoRavi]

When I hear the name Peter Gabriel, what first comes to mind for me is the football player. :D

[gilthethrill]

When I hear the name Peter Gabriel, what first comes to mind for me is the football player. :D

I was fortunate enough to talk with both Gabriels on Grey Cup Saturday last year.