Roger's Center "Come'on Man"

[ArgoRedneck]

Looks like Roger's is even putting it to grass roots football. Read the 2nd last paragraph in the link. Looks like my old PETERBOROUGH high school team is still kicking butt in Ontario.

http://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/2013/11/22/mustangs-prepare-for-lancers-in-ofsaa-aaa-senior-bowl-game

[AngeloV]

Looks like Roger's is even putting it to grass roots football. Read the 2nd last paragraph in the link. Looks like my old PETERBOROUGH high school team is still kicking butt in Ontario.

http://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/2013/11/22/mustangs-prepare-for-lancers-in-ofsaa-aaa-senior-bowl-game

Crestwood was very good in the late 80's. Good to see they still have a program. It's unfortunate that when I started in high-school ball in '84, North York had 16 teams, and by my last year in '87 they were down to 4. Now All of Toronto is down to 16 (between tier 1 and 2) in the public school systems from around 50 back then.

[ArgoGabe22]

Same story in Mississauga. Can't talk about the 80's but in the past 5 years a lot of Tier 2 teams have folded. Though in the 80's Clarkson vs Lorne Pack would get thousands watching on a Friday night. Today you'll be lucky to get more than 25.

[ArgoRavi]

Looks like Roger's is even putting it to grass roots football. Read the 2nd last paragraph in the link. Looks like my old PETERBOROUGH high school team is still kicking butt in Ontario.

http://www.thepeterboroughexaminer.com/2013/11/22/mustangs-prepare-for-lancers-in-ofsaa-aaa-senior-bowl-game

I suppose that the one positive out of this is that these kids aren't stuck playing on an American football field as they have the last couple of years at SkyDome.

[Will]

Crestwood was very good in the late 80's. Good to see they still have a program. It's unfortunate that when I started in high-school ball in '84, North York had 16 teams, and by my last year in '87 they were down to 4. Now All of Toronto is down to 16 (between tier 1 and 2) in the public school systems from around 50 back then.

Those are some pretty scary statistics for grass roots football. What is the core issue here? Is it that schools are no longer wanting to pay the expenses associated with football teams.

[ArgoGabe22]

Those are some pretty scary statistics for grass roots football. What is the core issue here? Is it that schools are no longer wanting to pay the expenses associated with football teams.

I think it boils down to these reasons. These are from my experiences in Mississauga, both as a player and coach in the past 8 years.

1) Lack of Support (funding). Our football team lost money each year, ROPSAA removed quarterfinals to save money.Equipment needs to replaced or refurbished so schools pull the program all together

2) Lack of qualified coaches

3) Aging schools - Schools in newer neighbourhoods with 2000+ students seem to be thriving, smaller schools in older neighbourhoods are struggling to field a team. Losing seasons aren't encouraging to new students. Good football players usually transfer from their local school to a school with a good program so bad teams usually stay bad.

4) Football culture is dying - Kids are losing interest fast. They would rather be doing something else after school than football. Students who are new to football are not likely to take part. For example Mississauga SS cancelled it's football program due to lack of interest but are a powerhouse in cricket and volleyball.

[Will]

My high school Vaughan Secondary has never had a football team since it opened in 1989. I was told by someone that the VP told him that the costs associated were too high. Instead the school focuses on its basketball program, which is among the best in the province. Andrew Wiggins went there before he went to the USA.

[ArgoRedneck]

Crestwood was very good in the late 80's. Good to see they still have a program. It's unfortunate that when I started in high-school ball in '84, North York had 16 teams, and by my last year in '87 they were down to 4. Now All of Toronto is down to 16 (between tier 1 and 2) in the public school systems from around 50 back then.

Minor football in Peterborough is expanding in the last few years. We now have different age rep teams, along with a minor football leauge. High schools that had no teams when I played now have teams. Sinopoli's Dad was the Junior coach at Crestwood for about 25 years (just retired) He is a main reason why the Senior program is the best around for many years. He developed alot of great players for the Senior program.

[Argo57]

Burlington Stampeders are a huge league in Halton, apparently 2nd in Canada in regards to sending kids to CIS.

[zontar]

Insurance costs would be big too. With all the concussion tak ins. companies, ever on the hunt for new biz., must be smelling blood.

[ArgoRavi]

Insurance costs would be big too. With all the concussion tak ins. companies, ever on the hunt for new biz., must be smelling blood.

That concussion issue will likely be an increasingly important factor in years to come.

[Argo57]

That concussion issue will likely be an increasingly important factor in years to come.

Exactly why I was glad my10 year old played only 1 year of tackle football Ravi, last season our team had 3 concussions.

[AngeloV]

I think it boils down to these reasons. These are from my experiences in Mississauga, both as a player and coach in the past 8 years.

1) Lack of Support (funding). Our football team lost money each year, ROPSAA removed quarterfinals to save money.Equipment needs to replaced or refurbished so schools pull the program all together

2) Lack of qualified coaches

3) Aging schools - Schools in newer neighbourhoods with 2000+ students seem to be thriving, smaller schools in older neighbourhoods are struggling to field a team. Losing seasons aren't encouraging to new students. Good football players usually transfer from their local school to a school with a good program so bad teams usually stay bad.

4) Football culture is dying - Kids are losing interest fast. They would rather be doing something else after school than football. Students who are new to football are not likely to take part. For example Mississauga SS cancelled it's football program due to lack of interest but are a powerhouse in cricket and volleyball.

I think you are bang on with all of these reasons. I remember in '85 the Geroge Vanier Vikings (our #1 rival as I went to AY Jackson) had won 3 consecutive Metro Bowls and had a 29 game winning streak until we beat them in the North York semi finals. The next year, they fielded a team, but had plenty of players with attitude problems that would often miss practice. In '87, their coach folded the team when over 35 players registered to play but only about 10 would show up for practice.

This past year, a team in Durham region that a friend of mine coaches, only had 20 players register, so he had to fold the team. Can't help but think that parents are just not letting their kids play because of the effects of concussions. Strange that these same parents have no problem putting their kids into hockey.

[ArgoGabe22]

I think concussions are affecting those who are completely new to football and are obviously not encouraged to take part by their parents. Usually those already involved pretty much stay involved and aren't worried about head injuries.

Strangely in all of years I played football, I never had any sort of injury or shot to the head. Did have guys go for the knees though.

[ArgoRedneck]

Risk vs. Reward. To not allow a teenager to play football in high school is worse then any concusion. High school is not all about class and "the books" To be a student athlete will pay off 10 fold. Good students and schools are directly related to the sports program. For those that played, some of the best times of our lives were playing football in high school. Sadly that last game in high school was the last time most played the game we love.

That's why I'm pissed at Rogers (again) those kids play to win, not for money. That will be the last game alot of those kids will play in. Playing in the Dome is big time to these teenagers and they earned it by being champions in their local high school league. For me bad PR investment by Rogers for stopping this because of the BILLS not offering up $$$.

[Neely2005]

That concussion issue will likely be an increasingly important factor in years to come.

Yeah that's why I won't let my sons play. They play hockey, soccer and basketball instead.

[Neely2005]

I think you are bang on with all of these reasons. I remember in '85 the Geroge Vanier Vikings (our #1 rival as I went to AY Jackson) had won 3 consecutive Metro Bowls and had a 29 game winning streak until we beat them in the North York semi finals. The next year, they fielded a team, but had plenty of players with attitude problems that would often miss practice. In '87, their coach folded the team when over 35 players registered to play but only about 10 would show up for practice.

This past year, a team in Durham region that a friend of mine coaches, only had 20 players register, so he had to fold the team. Can't help but think that parents are just not letting their kids play because of the effects of concussions. Strange that these same parents have no problem putting their kids into hockey.

There's a lot less contact in hockey. Football has contact every single play. Also there's no contact at all under 12 years old.

[ArgoGabe22]

Maybe no contact hockey is safer than tackle football but full contact hockey is no better and actually could be worse. Of course it'll vary from case to case.

[Gill The Thrill]

I'm sick and tired of basketball being shoved down my throat...can't stand the sport since Grade school when a teacher decided to stop our floor hockey intramural and play basketball because my Grade 4 class was kicking ass...have hated the sport ever since...I've tried to get into it, but when a 6"2 person is regarded as short, who's kidding who, it's a friggin freak sport.

Football has in fact been growing in Toronto recently. Some programs have come back after being cancelled for many years. The problem is that Principals need to make it a priority to hire teachers that can coach it. The Argos have put in that program that's funded the re-incarnation of teams in some schools but are the schools keeping it up. Truth of the matter is once a football team is established at a school, it quickly becomes the most popular sports team in the school.

I'm going to get slagged by some of the "ultra politically correct" on here for my next reason, but I'm writing it anyway. Football is also denigrated because it's viewed as a "Macho" male sport which haters say promotes violence and the dominance of maleness in society. These haters may not even like the fact that traditionally the sport has seen the role of women in football as that of cheerleader. Girls traditionally have not participated in playing football and it could be a reason that when sports are cut back, football always gets the shaft...Schools could conveniantly say that because it's not a co-ed sport, it should not get the promotion compared to basketball and volleyball, and even hockey, to a much lesser extent, which has girls' varsity squads of their own in many schools. I just know one thing, where football is taught and played alongside other sports, football is usually only 2nd to hockey in popularity.

When you think of how many football programs at high schools have dissappeared in the last 30 years, it's a miracle the CFL gets the ratings that it does with all the negative or even lack of coverage that they've had during that same time span. I think that alone speaks volumes for how popular the sport of football still is despite these trends.

[Gill The Thrill]

Maybe no contact hockey is safer than tackle football but full contact hockey is no better and actually could be worse. Of course it'll vary from case to case.I honestly think the hard-shell helmets made football extremely dangerous because prior to hard-shell helmets with facemasks, tackling in football was probably more similar to tackling in Rugby as far as technique. For several generations too many kids were taught to use what should have been worn for safety, the helmet, as a weapon and actually lead with the head when tackling. That has thankfully started to change because of the concussions. I could understand lineman using a facemask for protection or even a QB, but why are receivers and Defensive backs using facemasks and could the game be safer without it. At least we would not see those dangerous facemasking penalties which sees their head and neck practically turned while their body is moving a different direction...just food for thought.

[ArgoGabe22]

I had a girl on my football team, had no issues whatsoever. Schools also have girls flag football. FYI Field Hockey is a female only sport in HS when in reality everyone plays it around the world.

[Gill The Thrill]

I had a girl on my football team, had no issues whatsoever. Schools also have girls flag football. FYI Field Hockey is a female only sport in HS when in reality everyone plays it around the world.My point exactly, you had a girl on your football team because there was no girls team...that is not what Im talking about. I am talking about schools who decide to use gender equality as a means of eliminating a sport which is traditionally dominated by male participation. It is why many schools do not have football or even hockey teams, even though there may be enough interest to have a boys team.

Field hockey is played at the public school level, but it is a really popular sport at the private school level and quite vicious from what I have heard...Iève had girls tell me that girls have lost teeth playing field hockey, yet you never hear of girls field hockey being banned or cancelled because it is too violent, the way...thatès my point.

[1argoholic]

Well my old highschool, Cawthra Park in Mississauga became a school of the arts or something like that years ago so I'm pretty sure the Panthers football teams were ditched back then. Back in the late 70's and early 80's it was always Lorne Park, Gordon Graydon, Port Credit and Erindale having pretty solid football. Guys like Matt Finlay played at Lorne Park and Duane Ford played at Credit as he's a few years younger than me.

Hey ArgoRedneck now that we're living in the area I wondered about watching some football. Where would you suggest we go to watch local highschool or minor football next year. Just found out that Peterborough has a great rugby tradition with The Pagens. We googled that the other day as we drive past their field off Parkhill every day as I drive my wife to work. It'll take me a while to learn all the cool shite about The Patch as you call it. Love this area by the way.

[argos1873]

I think one reason people sort of overlooked, but brushed on it when it with mention of concussions, etc. Liability. That's the word that will make any school administrator soil his or her britches. Even a carefully crafted waiver form is not a guaranteed release from liability. Its not the only reason, but it is a reason.

I'm surprised that OV mentions there were only 4 teams still operating in North York in '87. But when I think about looking at the high school standings in the Star way back then, something makes me remember that that was true. I started high school in Scarborough in '87 and remember there being probably 10 teams operating at the time. North York had more people, and I assume more schools, and given some of the areas probably more money. Either North York mismanaged funds, or saw the writing on the wall. It wasn't much later after I left my school, that our team disbanded, and so did many others in Scarborough. At least my former school has a team again after many years, with many thanks to the Argos.

[ArgoGabe22]

Just remembered, the Star used to cover HS football, had top 10 rankings and features on the top prospects in the GTA usually outlining where they have committed or have offers from. There was a special on Stamps pick Brent Urban, who I played against and then after that it all just disappeared.

[ArgoRavi]

Just remembered, the Star used to cover HS football, had top 10 rankings and features on the top prospects in the GTA usually outlining where they have committed or have offers from. There was a special on Stamps pick Brent Urban, who I played against and then after that it all just disappeared.

And now today, on Grey Cup Sunday, the big story in the Star is Bon Jovi teaming up with Tim Leiweke to civilize Canada by bringing the Bills to Toronto for good. The Star's coverage of Canadian football at all levels has changed dramatically over the years and unfortunately for the worse.

[argos1873]

And now today, on Grey Cup Sunday, the big story in the Star is Bon Jovi teaming up with Tim Leiweke to civilize Canada by bringing the Bills to Toronto for good. The Star's coverage of Canadian football at all levels has changed dramatically over the years and unfortunately for the worse.

Bring Rick Matsumoto out of retirement! I was just a youth the last time I read the Star regularly, but he was or seemed to be a great CFL writer. No Jim Hunt though. Damn I miss that guy. I listened to the Fan 590 back in the day, just because of him.

*Edit* of course this was back in the day, when radio stations, most tv stations, sports teams, newspapers, etc were INDEPENDENT. Now days Jim Hunt wouldn't be welcome on ROGERS 590. Back then the Fan or even any sort of Rogers production would talk straight about any sport. Of course there was always some sort of slight towards the CFL at times, but it wasn't political in nature, it was based on the opinion of the sportscaster presenting it, informed or ill informed. Everything is different now a days. This complete merger of media, where 2 or 3 companies own the cable media, the TV stations, the radio networks and print media, is just sick. There's no real opinion out there any more. Its all just corporate mantra, and us as the end user are the victims. Of course the CRTC has sat on their thumbs, because they are partially comprised, and funded by these 2-3 big corporations. Nearly fascism if you ask me.

[Neely2005]

Maybe no contact hockey is safer than tackle football but full contact hockey is no better and actually could be worse. Of course it'll vary from case to case.

I'd have to disagree. Football has multiple incidents of contact every single play. You can go an entire hockey game without getting hit.

[ArgoGabe22]

I'd have to disagree. Football has multiple incidents of contact every single play. You can go an entire hockey game without getting hit.

When can you get smoked with your head down in football? Skates are also much faster than feet. There are no boards in football. Blades on skates is another danger. Fighting with your helmet off and falling on ice. I don't know the only real danger in football is a helmet to helmet hit.