Jon Cornish wins Lou Marsh

[Will]

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=438589

Congrats, it is well deserved!

[paulwoods13]

A great honour, and definitely the right choice this year IMO. Raonic had a good but not great year, and no one else seems particularly worthy of the award.

[Deerkeeper]

Congratulations to Jon Cornish. Very much deserved. It is rather distressing - however - to read all the pathetic comments in the comments from the peanut gallery section on that TSN article. Why can't people just appreciate it?

[ArgoGabe22]

And who said it wouldn't happen? Funny how sportsnet.ca didn't even include Cornish in the debate.

[c33]

They mentioned him in the discussion on Friday's Prime Time Sports, which is sort of sportsnet.ca. Sure, one of the heads compared it to giving the award to the AHL scoring leader, but he was in the conversation. They went on to talk about the Red Blacks a bit after that, surprisingly with minimal condescension.

[argolio]

That's a pleasant surprise. I didn't think Cornish had a chance to win it unless the Stamps won the Cup, at least were in it.

[jerrym]

Jon Cornish winning the Lou Marsh Trophy makes Jon think of the Aretha Franklin song:
"R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Find out what it means to me" (and the CFL)

No doubt Rogers has already sent out an order that this is another case for the league-that-shall-never-be-named.

[OV Argo]

I'm surprised, if not shocked or stunned ! But congrats Jon and well desereved. Maybe the CFL and Canadian football is starting to gain back some recognition and respect in it's own country !!!

As for the dweebs and wannabes who are going to complain about a CFL player winning the award - shove it up your pie holes, you pathetic ignoramuses.

[ArgoRavi]

That's a pleasant surprise. I didn't think Cornish had a chance to win it unless the Stamps won the Cup, at least were in it.

I thought the same, Argolio. I am very pleased to see him win this award and he is most deserving of it. Chris Zelkovich has a supportive column about Cornish: http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-game/cfl-star-jon-cornish-deservedly-wins-lou-marsh-200258273.html

[Argo57]

Well deserved all the way, great to see a CFL player win this award!!!

[paulwoods13]

Amazingly, he was selected by the very same journalists whom so many posters on CFL forums have utter contempt for. Cue the blind squirrel reference, I guess . . .

[AngeloV]

Amazingly, he was selected by the very same journalists whom so many posters on CFL forums have utter contempt for. Cue the blind squirrel reference, I guess . . .

Paul, I understand why you have the backs of a lot of the jounalists, but let's be honest here. Steve Simmons admitted to voting for Cornish, but then went on to say that the competition was slim, and found it difficult to vote for a player that plays in a "tier 2" league (he said this both on OTR and Richards morning show). Fact is, many of these journalists you mention feel the same way, and had the NHL not missed half a season last year, I am pretty sure that Cornish would not have received their votes.

Guys like Simmons have a lot of infuence to what the general sports followers believe. Everyone at work knows how much of a pro CFL person I am, and they were quick to say the exact same thing Simmons said, in referencing the CFL as a tier 2 league and in disbelief that A CFL player can win such an award.

[paulwoods13]

Paul, I understand why you have the backs of a lot of the jounalists, but let's be honest here. Steve Simmons admitted to voting for Cornish, but then went on to say that the competition was slim, and found it difficult to vote for a player that plays in a "tier 2" league (he said this both on OTR and Richards morning show). Fact is, many of these journalists you mention feel the same way, and had the NHL not missed half a season last year, I am pretty sure that Cornish would not have received their votes.

Guys like Simmons have a lot of infuence to what the general sports followers believe. Everyone at work knows how much of a pro CFL person I am, and they were quick to say the exact same thing Simmons said, in referencing the CFL as a tier 2 league and in disbelief that A CFL player can win such an award.

That's perfectly valid criticism of Simmons et al. What isn't valid is the "all journalists are hacks/idiots/NFL lovers" drivel that has become endemic on these forums.

[AngeloV]

That's perfectly valid criticism of Simmons et al. What isn't valid is the "all journalists are hacks/idiots/NFL lovers" drivel that has become endemic on these forums.

I see where you're coming from. Personally, I don't see too many of the writers as being NFL lovers, but it can't be argued that guys like Zicarelli find out one little tidbit at the beginning of a season, and basically rehash the same thing in virtually every article he writes. For example, in every single article he wrote when describing the Argos defence, he would mention that the Argos play a press man coverage. I honestly don't think he has any idea what that is. Anyone that saw tha Argos this year that has a clue, knows that the team did not blitz nearly as much as in 2012. That is likely because of a lack of confidence in the secondary, and the Argos actually played a lot of zone defence this year. That is just an example. I'm sure there is a lot more similar things in his articles about the rest of the team too. So, yeah...IMO at least HE is a hack.

[Mulder]

Some people were criticizing the fact that he has a second job at a bank.

I think he said in an interview that something like 70% of NFLers go bankrupt within 2 years of finishing their career.


Turns out it's actually around 78%

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1200856-why-nfl-players-really-go-bankrupt

[ArgoGabe22]

I have heard just about every excuse there is why Cornish shouldn't win. The CFL is semi pro, Cornish didn't compete with the world's best etc.. All the points they use are pretty laughable.

[OV Argo]

That's perfectly valid criticism of Simmons et al. What isn't valid is the "all journalists are hacks/idiots/NFL lovers" drivel that has become endemic on these forums.


And just who said "ALL" journalists are hacks, etc. - on this forum - please provide a quote or name the villain here if you can?

Point is - IMO - a LOT of them are clueless hacks, dweebs, wannabes or otherwise useless tools and they demonstrate it often when they get to run their big ignorant yaps in newspapers or other media - and that is often clear in their limited views or ignorance of the CFL. If you want to defend these morons and yutzes - the Simmons' or Naylor's, etc. out there - in some sort of show of brotherly love, then knock yourself out.

[AngeloV]

And just who said "ALL" journalists are hacks, etc. - on this forum - please provide a quote or name the villain here if you can?

Point is - IMO - a LOT of them are clueless hacks, dweebs, wannabes or otherwise useless tools and they demonstrate it often when they get to run their big ignorant yaps in newspapers or other media - and that is often clear in their limited views or ignorance of the CFL. If you want to defend these morons and yutzes - the Simmons' or Naylor's, etc. out there - in some sort of show of brotherly love, then knock yourself out.

I think that's a little harsh. I understand Paul's point of view as many of us on this forum get defensive anytime there is something critical (rightful or not) written about the CFL. I stand by what I say about the likes of Zicarelli and Cox, but not all writers are like that. Chris Zelkovich and Dan Ralph are very good.

[ArgoRavi]

Some of the comments at the end of the articles about Cornish's Lou Marsh win are quite interesting in how negative they are towards the CFL. Why do so many Canadians have so much hate for the Canadian Football League? It is like these Canadians are threatened by the league for some reason. As Canadians, we are brought up with this notion that we are "inferior" and then we have a pro sports league that operates only within Canada and produces an entertaining and skillful product and this somehow offends people to the point that they must spew venom about our great league. Cornish winning the Lou Marsh seems to be opening up some wounds for a number of Canadians.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Some of the comments at the end of the articles about Cornish's Lou Marsh win are quite interesting in how negative they are towards the CFL. Why do so many Canadians have so much hate for the Canadian Football League? It is like these Canadians are threatened by the league for some reason. As Canadians, we are brought up with this notion that we are "inferior" and then we have a pro sports league that operates only within Canada and produces an entertaining and skillful product and this somehow offends people to the point that they must spew venom about our great league. Cornish winning the Lou Marsh seems to be opening up some wounds for a number of Canadians.

That is certainly a strange isn't it? There is a certain kind of Canadian who likes nothing more than to bash on our own. They have to "make it" in the States to be considered good.

I also wonder if the NFL played 3 down football, and the CFL played 4 down football if the same Canadians would be all over the 4 downs as "inferior"? Likely yes in my view.

Also why can't people enjoy watching both leagues? It doesn't have to be one over the other.

[paulwoods13]

And just who said "ALL" journalists are hacks, etc. - on this forum - please provide a quote or name the villain here if you can?

Point is - IMO - a LOT of them are clueless hacks, dweebs, wannabes or otherwise useless tools and they demonstrate it often when they get to run their big ignorant yaps in newspapers or other media - and that is often clear in their limited views or ignorance of the CFL. If you want to defend these morons and yutzes - the Simmons' or Naylor's, etc. out there - in some sort of show of brotherly love, then knock yourself out.

OV, you know as well as I do that many posters on this and other forums -- yourself included -- have regularly tarred all journalists with the same brush. If you want to use the clever "who said ALL?" argument, be my guest but it's sophistry. As for individuals running "their big ignorant yaps," seems to me that these forums are the very definition of that at times. I'm happy to defend -- and to criticize -- journalists when it is warranted. I judge them every day based on what they write/report, rather than arrive at a conclusion and stick to it forever, even in the face of any evidence that may emerge to the contrary (such as the fact that those "yutzes" actually did what you believed they would never do, i.e. vote the Lou Marsh to Jon Cornish).

[Shatto]

One must agree that some of the information and opinions given in Simmon's article do have a modicum of validity. However it is the condescending attitude of the article that I find somewhat offensive. Instead of referring to Cornish as a part time teller, he could have easily referenced, how many of the CFL players flow seamlessly into future careers, which will follow pro football and compared their success to the rather dismal post career lives of a great number of NFL players. Oh well, perhaps we should be grateful that Simmons, did at least acknowlege that Cornish won the award.

[AngeloV]

Also why can't people enjoy watching both leagues? It doesn't have to be one over the other.

I always wonder about this myself. I definitely enjoy both leagues even though I have a greater love of our league.

[paulwoods13]

The fact that the top player in the CFL has an off-season job is newsworthy because it is out of the ordinary. He is almost certainly the only MOP/MVP in any North American pro sport who works for a living outside his sport. (Filming TV commercials in the off-season, a la Peyton Manning, Sidney Crosby et al, does not count as "working for a living," IMO.)

If this was 50 years ago, the fact that Cornish has a job might not have been mentioned in media coverage because back then virtually every pro athlete had to work a regular job. Now the CFL is the only league where this is commonplace. That makes it a legitimate news angle. It is also one of the things that make the CFL special for many of us -- its players are not highly paid and are more like average people than athletes from any other sport. This should be celebrated, and IMO it being mentioned in news stories is a good thing for just that reason.

[OV Argo]

Some of the comments at the end of the articles about Cornish's Lou Marsh win are quite interesting in how negative they are towards the CFL. Why do so many Canadians have so much hate for the Canadian Football League? It is like these Canadians are threatened by the league for some reason. As Canadians, we are brought up with this notion that we are "inferior" and then we have a pro sports league that operates only within Canada and produces an entertaining and skillful product and this somehow offends people to the point that they must spew venom about our great league. Cornish winning the Lou Marsh seems to be opening up some wounds for a number of Canadians.


That has been discussed much on CFL fan forums, hasn't it Ravi? I don't know if there is a simple explanation for the CFL haters. To me though - a lot of it has to do with a simpleton, lowest common denominator type dumbing down of joe average out there. A lot of the lemmings believe what they are told by "expert" media sources, and a lot of Canadians have no respect for or much knowledge of fine things in their own country. So, we get a lot of all-american wannabes and hype suckers who have heard that the CFL (or other things Canadian) is inferior or not "world class" or "major league". The lemmings certainly are entitled to their views though; and they are easily threatened, or led.

[ArgoGabe22]

Only in Canada would people criticize the winner. In any other country, like Sweden, awarded their athlete of the year from the Swedish Hockey league it would be accepted. No one would bring up the NHL is better debate. Same thing if Russia's top athlete was a KHL player. In Canada it seems the only way "you made it" is if you go to the US whether its in sports, music, acting etc.

[AngeloV]

Only in Canada would people criticize the winner. In any other country, like Sweden, awarded their athlete of the year from the Swedish Hockey league it would be accepted. No one would bring up the NHL is better debate. Same thing if Russia's top athlete was a KHL player. In Canada it seems the only way "you made it" is if you go to the US whether its in sports, music, acting etc.

Very well said Gabe!!

[jerrym]

That's perfectly valid criticism of Simmons et al. What isn't valid is the "all journalists are hacks/idiots/NFL lovers" drivel that has become endemic on these forums.

I think you are overstating your case considerably Paul. While a few have made negative sweeping statements about all or most journalists, many more have responding to specific attacks on the Argos, usually by Rogers or Star reporters (surprise, surprise), or decrying the fact that the Argos are ignored most of the time by much of the city's media, which is true and quite different from saying "all journalists are hacks/idiots/NFL lovers", followed by the derogatory word "drivel".

[paulwoods13]

I think you are overstating your case considerably Paul. While a few have made negative sweeping statements about all or most journalists, many more have responding to specific attacks on the Argos, usually by Rogers or Star reporters (surprise, surprise), or decrying the fact that the Argos are ignored most of the time by much of the city's media, which is true and quite different from saying "all journalists are hacks/idiots/NFL lovers", followed by the derogatory word "drivel".

I stand by what I wrote. I read three CFL forums regularly, and on all three of them I regularly see mindless bashing of journalists without reasoned responses to what they actually write/report. Some posters do address the actual content of news reports, but a lot just bash and condemn the entire profession as useless/clueless/CFL haters/etc.

[OV Argo]

OV, you know as well as I do that many posters on this and other forums -- yourself included -- have regularly tarred all journalists with the same brush. If you want to use the clever "who said ALL?" argument, be my guest but it's sophistry. As for individuals running "their big ignorant yaps," seems to me that these forums are the very definition of that at times. I'm happy to defend -- and to criticize -- journalists when it is warranted. I judge them every day based on what they write/report, rather than arrive at a conclusion and stick to it forever, even in the face of any evidence that may emerge to the contrary (such as the fact that those "yutzes" actually did what you believed they would never do, i.e. vote the Lou Marsh to Jon Cornish).

Actually, no, I do not know anything about "ALL" journalists getting condemned; but I have read plenty of sweeping criticism of sports/football reporters on various fan forums and IMO a lot of it is quite warranted. AND, just IMO, the profession features many many hacks, clowns, charlatans, spewers of clueless drivel & cliches, etc. Sorry bout having that opinion though, and I certainly do not intend to "tar" you with that brush, but you are free of course to take my opinion of modern "journalism" as some sort of personal insult. ;o)

As for running our yaps on forums like this one - the internet being a special place for such stuff - that hardly compares to writers who are supposed to be well spoken and knowledgeable on the subject they are getting PAID to cover and who have a potential very large audience (many of whom are gullible enough to take the reports or opinions as expert or authoritative). IMO there are just so very few quality reporters or commentators on the specific topic of the CFL out there in the mainstream media; and the often negativity or clueless commentary there is particularly annoying, frustrating or sickening. And if I want to find sharp or interesting opinions or commentary on that subject that I care about and follow closely, I much prefer to turn to some of the fine writers (non professional journalists for the most part i believe) who do regularly post on the CFL fan type forums - these guys know and care way more about the CFL than almost any "journalist" who does get to report on the subject (I'd name Duane Forde as one of a few exceptions), and often they are much better writers too.

[ArgoGabe22]

I am not an expert in this field so correct if I'm wrong but wouldn't the editors play apart in what gets reported and what doesn't. If the editors want anti-CFL posts posted then the journalists have no real choice. I remember when the reporter shared negative opinions of the students at the pre-season game and then I think he defended himself saying he was only following orders (or something like that).