Durie Extended

[Mulder]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p>Thank you <a href="https://twitter.com/TorontoArgos">@TorontoArgos</a> for extending me through the 2014-2016 seasons.Truly an honour to continue my career as an Argo <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23BleedBlue&amp;src=hash">#BleedBlue</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23HomeTeam&amp;src=hash">#HomeTeam</a></p>&mdash; Andre Durie (@AD3TWO) <a href="https://twitter.com/AD3TWO/statuses/420199446471667712">January 6, 2014</a></blockquote>
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Great news!

[Tau Ceti]

Quality Canadian content!

[hugoagogo]

Good signing for the Argos indeed!

[matchuk]

awesome signing

[argotom]

A good signing for a great and versatile player.
At the reported $140k, this number should have been around $200k and especially with the increase in the salary cap likely to be over $500k this year and that is still way too short for the players.

[paulwoods13]

The cap amount won't be known for months, and there's no way of knowing how much it will grow. Even if it does grow by $500,000, $140,000 is a very fair number for an excellent player. Giving him $200k would mean $60k less to spend on other players we will also need.

[argotom]

The cap amount won't be known for months, and there's no way of knowing how much it will grow. Even if it does grow by $500,000, $140,000 is a very fair number for an excellent player. Giving him $200k would mean $60k less to spend on other players we will also need.


My point is the obvious need to bring up the salaries for everyone.
To include the minimum from the now what $40k to yours of $60k sounds fair to me.
Also, instead of the nonsensical 42 out of 46 man roster playing, how about all 46 playing.

[ArgoRavi]

My point is the obvious need to bring up the salaries for everyone.
To include the minimum from the now what $40k to yours of $60k sounds fair to me.
Also, instead of the nonsensical 42 out of 46 man roster playing, how about all 46 playing.

No, please don't expand rosters any further. If they were to go to 46, I fear that you would see less offence and less big special teams plays as a result as teams load up on defensive and coverage team specialists with those extra roster spots.

[doubleblue]

I could be wrong but 140,000 for a Canadian SB/RB starter would be a approximate 30-40,000 raise on average IMO. Durie is better than your average Canadian SB but I was always under the impression the going rate for his position was about 100,000. Maybe that gives us an idea what players can or should expect under the new SMS. Good Canadian starting O-Linemen will probably be looking at 200,000 per year because of their scarcity.

[OV Argo]

I could be wrong but 140,000 for a Canadian SB/RB starter would be a approximate 30-40,000 raise on average IMO. Durie is better than your average Canadian SB but I was always under the impression the going rate for his position was about 100,000. Maybe that gives us an idea what players can or should expect under the new SMS. Good Canadian starting O-Linemen will probably be looking at 200,000 per year because of their scarcity.

We don't know CFL salaries, so it is all speculation. Also, IMO, the notion that Canadian "starting" offensive linemen are so rare so they can extort huge CFL salaries is a CFL cliche/fallacy - show me the money please (confirmed salaries) and i might believe this (Rob Murphy was reportedly the highest paid O-Lineman in the league a few years back; I can name about 20 or more proven to top notch Canadian O-Linemen in the league, so tell me how they are so "scarce"? Proven starters get the most money obviously and QBs are the highest paid CFL players by far: QBs are always imports and a large majority of CFL starters are imports = American players eat up most of CFL salary dollars.

[argotom]

No, please don't expand rosters any further. If they were to go to 46, I fear that you would see less offence and less big special teams plays as a result as teams load up on defensive and coverage team specialists with those extra roster spots.

I hate to bring up the No Funners in this debate, but their bigger roster seems to have no effect on better and more wide open play the last few years aka the west coast offense.

[OV Argo]

No, please don't expand rosters any further. If they were to go to 46, I fear that you would see less offence and less big special teams plays as a result as teams load up on defensive and coverage team specialists with those extra roster spots.

I agree Ravi; the 46 thing is stupid and a waste of money as it is; 42 man roster is more than enough; the great CFL heydays of the 60s thru 80s featured smaller rosters and the play was IMO easily as good or better than today's CFL; there is still large PRs now that allow for guys learning the team/game and ready to step-in when injuries happen.

[Argo]

I think Durie could end up being a pretty good player for the Argos.

[jerrym]

Great news. I think Durie is the most underrated player in the league.

[AngeloV]

I agree Ravi; the 46 thing is stupid and a waste of money as it is; 42 man roster is more than enough; the great CFL heydays of the 60s thru 80s featured smaller rosters and the play was IMO easily as good or better than today's CFL; there is still large PRs now that allow for guys learning the team/game and ready to step-in when injuries happen.

The only good thing about the 46 man rosters are that it give a team up to an hour before game time to decide whether on not an injured or perhaps ill player will be able to suit up. If they have just a 42 man roster with no extras, a team may be forced to play a player short in such a scenario.

[OV Argo]

The only good thing about the 46 man rosters are that it give a team up to an hour before game time to decide whether on not an injured or perhaps ill player will be able to suit up. If they have just a 42 man roster with no extras, a team may be forced to play a player short in such a scenario.

It still means they are paying 46 guys' salaries, when IMO there is no need for that; they could easily be allowed to pull a player off the PR on game day to replace a suddenly injured or ill player. I'd make the rosters 40 players and everybody gets a raise, plus bump up the PR money a bit; instead of paying 4 guys on the 46 for nothing.

[argotom]

It still means they are paying 46 guys' salaries, when IMO there is no need for that; they could easily be allowed to pull a player off the PR on game day to replace a suddenly injured or ill player. I'd make the rosters 40 players and everybody gets a raise, plus bump up the PR money a bit; instead of paying 4 guys on the 46 for nothing.

There is no better example during a game when there is a e first starter injury, even worse when there are multi injuries and then what?
We have a 46 man roster so let everyone play, in fact I have gone on record to expand it to 50 and therefore reduce the PR to injury only.

[OV Argo]

There is no better example during a game when there is a e first starter injury, even worse when there are multi injuries and then what?
We have a 46 man roster so let everyone play, in fact I have gone on record to expand it to 50 and therefore reduce the PR to injury only.

Did you watch any CFL football in the 60s thru 80s? - when game rosters were under 40 players? Funny I don't recall all sorts of disastrous roster problems from back then.

[ArgoRavi]

Did you watch any CFL football in the 60s thru 80s? - when game rosters were under 40 players? Funny I don't recall all sorts of disastrous roster problems from back then.

I happen to agree with you, OV, but the one argument that can be made for expanded rosters is that they would result in less wear and tear on players and their bodies.

If you go back and look at player participation records from the 1970s, for example, there is one year where the Esks, who won the Grey Cup, only used something like 40 guys for the entire season. Of course, there is now suspicion that at least three members of that Edmonton team (York Hentschel, David Boone, and Bill Stevenson) suffered from CTE so there may have been quite a toll from playing so much with injuries such as concussions that we might not see as much today.

[AngeloV]

It still means they are paying 46 guys' salaries, when IMO there is no need for that; they could easily be allowed to pull a player off the PR on game day to replace a suddenly injured or ill player. I'd make the rosters 40 players and everybody gets a raise, plus bump up the PR money a bit; instead of paying 4 guys on the 46 for nothing.

I can't disagree with any of that, but as we know, the PA will never allow it...especially in better financial times league wise.

[Argo]

I would:
1. Not like to see roster limit increase (unless required to implement point 2, below).
2. Like to see special provision made for development of The Canadian QB.
3. Like to see salary cap rise in optimal, sustainable fashion.
4. Like to see a ten-team CFL.

No matter what, (fortunately, IMO) the CFL will always be a league that operates on what I'd call "the human scale" - it's personable and comfortable - unlike the colossal machine that is the NFL.

[argolio]

I thought I read something a few months ago that all contracts signed this off-season will increase on a percentage basis by however much the cap goes up as per the next CBA. No idea if that's true, but it seems logical that there has to be some provision for that. Since the 2014 cap is obviously unknown, I'm assuming they're still using the 2013 cap as a basis for new contracts.

And of course, great to see Durie extended.

[OV Argo]

I can't disagree with any of that, but as we know, the PA will never allow it...especially in better financial times league wise.

Yep - you are right I believe; the PA will fight for as many jobs as possible = nature of the beast; however, not sure they have that much bargaining power, and if the owners demanded 40 man game rosters, with perhaps a slightly larger and more flexible PR (more bucks, less chance to have guys pulled by other teams) and it meant more money on average for all players, then maybe the PA would accept this ?

A lot has been made about the long-time problem of CFL teams being profitable, so why does a league that doesn't really need 46 man rosters (debatable i realize - the GMs and coaches might believe they do, but they are wrong there IMO) need to pay that many players when they could easily make do with less on the roster and end up paying guys more, with increasing profitablily, even slightly, to be had there too?

[doubleblue]

Good to see Andre Durie get his extension and at 33 he can still get it done on the football field. Got me thinking how Durie made the move from his original RB position to the slot and found his CFL niche. He can still use his running ability so well after a pass reception. Jesse Lumsden is two years younger at 31 and appears to be in excellent shape doing Bob Sled runs. Makes me wonder why some team, like the Argos, hasn't tried so see if he has recovered from his shoulder injuries enough to give it another shot as maybe a slot receiver similar to Andre Durie. Jesse had that 4.4 speed and was shifty like Andre, and even if he has lost a step would still be fast enough to be effective. Jesse IMO had Hall of Fame talent and it was a shame he wasn't able to play long enough to make it happen.

[ArgoRavi]

Good to see Andre Durie get his extension and at 33 he can still get it done on the football field. Got me thinking how Durie made the move from his original RB position to the slot and found his CFL niche. He can still use his running ability so well after a pass reception. Jesse Lumsden is two years younger at 31 and appears to be in excellent shape doing Bob Sled runs. Makes me wonder why some team, like the Argos, hasn't tried so see if he has recovered from his shoulder injuries enough to give it another shot as maybe a slot receiver similar to Andre Durie. Jesse had that 4.4 speed and was shifty like Andre, and even if he has lost a step would still be fast enough to be effective. Jesse IMO had Hall of Fame talent and it was a shame he wasn't able to play long enough to make it happen.

Lumsden retired from football. He was very talented but could not get through more than two games without sustaining a serious injury and he became well aware that his body could not withstand the pounding of football which is why he is now bobsledding full-time.

[doubleblue]

Lumsden retired from football. He was very talented but could not get through more than two games without sustaining a serious injury and he became well aware that his body could not withstand the pounding of football which is why he is now bobsledding full-time. I know Jesse retired from Football, but time heals everything including the body. It was my understanding that it was his shoulder that was the main problem and if it had healed and was strengthened by therapy he could still play at a position like slot back that didn't require the pounding the running backs take. But that is only a question that he could answer.

[OV Argo]

I know Jesse retired from Football, but time heals everything including the body. It was my understanding that it was his shoulder that was the main problem and if it had healed and was strengthened by therapy he could still play at a position like slot back that didn't require the pounding the running backs take. But that is only a question that he could answer.

Durie made the transition to receiver by showing he could catch the ball, run routes at the pro level; it's not a given for a RB by trade; Lumsden MIGHT be able to show good hands and route running, but he might also be sadly lacking in that department (never used much as a pass catching back in his CIS days that i recall); guy was a big powerful RB - and IMO one of the best pure talents - package of size, speed, power - the CFL has seen at tailback in some time while he was healthy in the league; he had his day/moments; too bad about the injury issues; I bet he is OK now with doing the bobsledding thing, and I can't see any CFL team overly interested in trying him at any position again.

[doubleblue]

I wonder if Marcel Desjardins and his staff have had that conversation. They are scrounging around trying to find enough Canadians to take to Camp. Teams seem to need about thirty Canadians to make sure they can find twenty for game days. Ones with the talent level of the CFL preferred.

[ArgoRavi]

I wonder if Marcel Desjardins and his staff have had that conversation. They are scrounging around trying to find enough Canadians to take to Camp. Teams seem to need about thirty Canadians to make sure they can find twenty for game days. Ones with the talent level of the CFL preferred.

Honestly, I would be surprised as I just don't think that Lumsden is on anyone's radar at this point. He is 31 which is older by football standards - and I do realize that Durie is older but still doesn't seem to necessarily have hit his potential - and has played three games since 2010 IIRC. I just feel that it is better to look for and try to develop the next Lumsden rather than try to convince him to return to a game that he has shown no durability in.