Barker FA status updates

[Will]

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=442005


"We'd like to have him back and we're still working on it," Barker said Thursday. "But we'll have to see what happens."

On Zach Collaros


Collaros is one of 10 potential Toronto free agents, a list that includes kicker Swayze Waters, linebacker Robert McCune and cornerback Pat Watkins. Barker isn't sure if he'll be able to re-sign any of those players before Feb. 15.
"We're trying," he said. "But they all want to go look at it and you have to let them."

On some of the other free agents.

[Argocister]

Mmmmmm...... Are these the risks of having a hall of fame QB?

[argotom]

For me, the two key signings are Collaros and Waters.

[Argo57]

For me, the two key signings are Collaros and Waters.

Personally don't see a chance that Collaros stays in Toronto, too many other options to start and make more cash.
Anxious to see what Portis shows in camp to push Harris to be #2 behind Ray.

[bigzee19]

Honestly my main concern to keep would be Waters and McCune.

But thats just me....

[ArgoRavi]

Personally don't see a chance that Collaros stays in Toronto, too many other options to start and make more cash.
Anxious to see what Portis shows in camp to push Harris to be #2 behind Ray.

I agree. Offer Collaros a nice contract but the reality is that someone else will be able to offer him something that the Argos cannot and that is an opportunity to start.

[Nob]

My big fear is Watkins. He's the best they have in the secondary. Plus his height is such an advantage.

[gilthethrill]

Mmmmmm...... Are these the risks of having a hall of fame QB?

I don't think so. Montreal did well with signing FA's with Calvillo being at the helm all those years.

[D-Gap-Willie]

There's more than a 50-50 chance that Collaros will be gone unfortunately. Both Winnipeg and Ottawa can offer him the chance to start and potentially a more lucrative contract than Argos. The same can also be said to a lesser degree for both Calgary and Edmonton. The real wild card is if Hamilton do not resign Burris, who is also a FA; he can go elsewhere or Hamilton decide to go with youth. I'm sure the Ti-Cats would love to land him.

Collaros is sitting in a very good position for himself.

Of the remaining 3 QB's, based on skillset, college careers and a tiny sample of Argos playing time, I believe that Gale has by far the best potential. Nice position for the Argos, I believe.

[larz-7]

it would be nice if collaros could stay and i personally think it would be a smart move on his behalf.yes winnipeg and ottawa could offer more money and maybe a chance to start more so in winnipeg.burris,ray,AC may have helped winnipeg win a couple of games but it was a bad situation and who knows how much better it will be.point is it could kill his career.in toronto he knows the system and i think he needs another year to improve his skills.i love ray but i cringe everytime he gets hit.my guess is if he stays he will start as many games if not more than last year.than we will see if he is indeed worth starter money.

[argotom]

My big fear is Watkins. He's the best they have in the secondary. Plus his height is such an advantage.


I would have agreed with you a year ago.
Last year it was feast or famine with him and overall a below average performance.

[Ron]

Collaros has only one chance to start in the league. Winnipeg. Ottawa has it's QB's and won't give him starter pay at this stage.

Then again. He may be a defacto starter in Toronto with Ray missing half a season every season now. Plus it's a system that makes him look better than he is. (Milo has made Ray look better than he ever has)

[AngeloV]

Milo has made Ray look better than he ever has

I desagree with this. When Ray first came into the league in Edmonton, he was fantastic. His numbers in Edmonton got worse towards the end, because they were just plain and simple a bad team. They sure haven't turned it around since he left.

[paulwoods13]

Collaros has only one chance to start in the league. Winnipeg. Ottawa has it's QB's and won't give him starter pay at this stage.

Then again. He may be a defacto starter in Toronto with Ray missing half a season every season now. Plus it's a system that makes him look better than he is. (Milo has made Ray look better than he ever has)

For the record, RR missed four of 18 games in 2012, and one of those he was a healthy scratch to prep for playoffs. In 2011 he played all 18 games for Edmonton. The notion that he routinely misses half a season is simply not based on fact.

As for where ZC has a chance to start, Hamilton is right up there with Wpg, IMO. Austin is giving off a lot of hints that he doesn't want Burris back, including the fact that no negots have been held with him.

[Argo]

For the record, RR missed four of 18 games in 2012, and one of those he was a healthy scratch to prep for playoffs. In 2011 he played all 18 games for Edmonton. The notion that he routinely misses half a season is simply not based on fact.

As for where ZC has a chance to start, Hamilton is right up there with Wpg, IMO. Austin is giving off a lot of hints that he doesn't want Burris back, including the fact that no negots have been held with him.

I agree with your take on Collaros and, indeed, Austin. I expect ZC to sign with Hamilton and be given every opportunity to start immediately.
ZC - as would you or I - will certainly prefer at this juncture to launch his starting QB career with Hamilton as opposed to Winnipeg.

[OV Argo]

For the record, RR missed four of 18 games in 2012, and one of those he was a healthy scratch to prep for playoffs. In 2011 he played all 18 games for Edmonton. The notion that he routinely misses half a season is simply not based on fact.

As for where ZC has a chance to start, Hamilton is right up there with Wpg, IMO. Austin is giving off a lot of hints that he doesn't want Burris back, including the fact that no negots have been held with him.



I doubt Collaros would automatically pass LeFevour - who Austin might be quite high on - as the new starter in Hamilton if Burris is history.

Winnipeg seems to make the most sense for Collaros - especially if O'Shea likes him - as they have most need at starting QB; I'd put Ottawa up there too, but the new regime there may be stupid enough to view / hand the job to Glenn as a starter with Demarco and whoever else they can find as development guys. Collaros should be up for competing for starter job/money after his impressive play last season, and a team will have to pay. A team with most need should be paying the most, as compared to other teams who want a guy just to be in the mix on the depth chart.

[Argo57]

I see Collaros landing in Hamilton, pretty decent team and Austin (like Milanovich) will get the best out him.
I also don't think Kent Austin is all that enthused with Henry at this point in his career.
Collaros is head and shoulders better than any QB currently on Hamilton's roster.
I also seriously doubt Watkins will return as well after the season he had last year (personal issues and all). Look for even more changes on defence McCune etc, this is why I think Barker needs to score a couple of free agents (with CFL experience) in February!!

[bluto]

I desagree with this. When Ray first came into the league in Edmonton, he was fantastic. His numbers in Edmonton got worse towards the end, because they were just plain and simple a bad team. They sure haven't turned it around since he left.


respectfully disagree.

while i believe that Ray had more physicality in his game when he first broke in and that he was undoubtably an upper-echelon QB from the get go, what we saw last season (and the final games of the prior season) was for me a new evolution of Ray.

when he first went down with injury wasn't he well north of 70% and had something like 15 TD to 0 INTs? and then when he came back he had games where he was virtually perfect over the space of a game. Ray's maturity mixed with the system he's employed in has brought him to a new level, imo.

[AngeloV]

respectfully disagree.

while i believe that Ray had more physicality in his game when he first broke in and that he was undoubtably an upper-echelon QB from the get go, what we saw last season (and the final games of the prior season) was for me a new evolution of Ray.

when he first went down with injury wasn't he well north of 70% and had something like 15 TD to 0 INTs? and then when he came back he had games where he was virtually perfect over the space of a game. Ray's maturity mixed with the system he's employed in has brought him to a new level, imo.

I hope my post didn't come off as looking like I think Ray has regressed over his career. I just believe he was as good as a rookie as he is now. I remember watching him back then and just being in utter amazement at how he saw the entire field. It was something that you just didn't see from a rookie QB (and usually even a vet). IMO, his strength is his ability to read the field and always stay calm...something he has had from his first snap in this league.

[D-Gap-Willie]

I find this all very strange. I know what Barker has said about the situation, but I have never seen such a dearth of signings and re-signings in all my decades of following the CFL. Here we are in February and absolutely none of the 10 ( now 9) soon to be free agents have signed. None of the vacant coaching positions ( other than DC Burke ) have been filled . Only 2 new additions have been signed to the team.
It's almost as if everything is on hold pending the purchase/non-purchase by MLSE.
I am sure that the complete lack of a training camp site and practice facility are on hold pending the sale. Where do the Argos train/practice if the MLSE deal falls through ?
Does anyone else have this same feeling ?

[AngeloV]

I find this all very strange. I know what Barker has said about the situation, but I have never seen such a dearth of signings and re-signings in all my decades of following the CFL. Here we are in February and absolutely none of the 10 ( now 9) soon to be free agents have signed. None of the vacant coaching positions ( other than DC Burke ) have been filled . Only 2 new additions have been signed to the team.
It's almost as if everything is on hold pending the purchase/non-purchase by MLSE.
I am sure that the complete lack of a training camp site and practice facility are on hold pending the sale. Where do the Argos train/practice if the MLSE deal falls through ?
Does anyone else have this same feeling ?

Has the SMS for this year been announced yet? Could be that is something that can have and affect on signings.

[ArgoRavi]

Has the SMS for this year been announced yet? Could be that is something that can have and affect on signings.

No, my understanding is that a new SMS figure won't be announced until a new collective bargaining agreement is in place which likely won't happen until June. And, yes, that would likely have an effect on the dearth of re-signings so far although some teams like Calgary and Montreal have been a little more effective at getting some deals done.

[Argo57]

I find this all very strange. I know what Barker has said about the situation, but I have never seen such a dearth of signings and re-signings in all my decades of following the CFL. Here we are in February and absolutely none of the 10 ( now 9) soon to be free agents have signed. None of the vacant coaching positions ( other than DC Burke ) have been filled . Only 2 new additions have been signed to the team.
It's almost as if everything is on hold pending the purchase/non-purchase by MLSE.
I am sure that the complete lack of a training camp site and practice facility are on hold pending the sale. Where do the Argos train/practice if the MLSE deal falls through ?
Does anyone else have this same feeling ?

Yes I was thinking the same thing the other day.
Pretty quiet off season (a little too quiet IMO). Hopefully Barker and Milanovich clear up the assistant coaching situation soon!
Starting to see some players re-sign with their teams, have had the vibe for a while that there will be even more personnel changes with the team than originally thought. Seem to be much less free agent college signings this off season than last, hopefully a case of quality over quantity this off season.

[paulwoods13]

I don't think we should read much into the supposed lack of activity so far. It is normal for teams to sign new players but not announce them until later. Teams often calculate what other news they are up against and when they can maximize the exposure for their announcements. This would apply to returning FAs and new assistant coaches as well.

There is no completely "quiet" part of the off-season when it would be ideal to make announcements, but I personally don't see much value, in terms of publicity or ticket sales, in announcing a lot of signings at a time of year when there is no schedule and therefore no way to sell tickets.

[Argocister]

I find this all very strange. I know what Barker has said about the situation, but I have never seen such a dearth of signings and re-signings in all my decades of following the CFL. Here we are in February and absolutely none of the 10 ( now 9) soon to be free agents have signed. None of the vacant coaching positions ( other than DC Burke ) have been filled . Only 2 new additions have been signed to the team.
It's almost as if everything is on hold pending the purchase/non-purchase by MLSE.
I am sure that the complete lack of a training camp site and practice facility are on hold pending the sale. Where do the Argos train/practice if the MLSE deal falls through ?
Does anyone else have this same feeling ?

The problem with the off season .... we can think of different scenarios... like this.
I was thinking similarly, that there hasn't been any movement pending purchase of the Argos. My next concern would be ..... would Lieweke tamper with the Argos GM position if he takes over? ..... didn't he do the same with TFC or the Raptors? ....

Practice facility ..... would they head to Guelph?

[ArgoRavi]

The problem with the off season .... we can think of different scenarios... like this.
I was thinking similarly, that there hasn't been any movement pending purchase of the Argos. My next concern would be ..... would Lieweke tamper with the Argos GM position if he takes over? ..... didn't he do the same with TFC or the Raptors? ....

Practice facility ..... would they head to Guelph?

Lieweke had a reason to tamper with the GM positions of the Raptors and FC because they were both awful teams. He has little reason to do so with the Argos.

[Argo]

IMO, the Argos' power rating is trending downward, and I'm concerned (although there's several months of offseason left). We'll see what's what come training camp. Did I say that I'm concerned?

[Argo57]

IMO, the Argos' power rating is trending downward, and I'm concerned (although there's several months of offseason left). We'll see what's what come training camp. Did I say that I'm concerned?

The lack of any news regarding player signings should be somewhat alarming (sale or not), seems some other teams are being pro-active in locking up some of their key guys, while I'm sure Barker is working at it don't be surprised to see some guys like McCune and Watkins play elsewhere this season.

[ArgoRavi]

Interesting interview with Barker in the National Post: http://sports.nationalpost.com/2014/02/07/toronto-argonauts-gm-on-ricky-ray-the-expansion-draft-and-his-off-season-plan/

He may be more active in free agency than he has been in the past.

[paulwoods13]

The lack of any news regarding player signings should be somewhat alarming (sale or not), seems some other teams are being pro-active in locking up some of their key guys, while I'm sure Barker is working at it don't be surprised to see some guys like McCune and Watkins play elsewhere this season.

Again, why are so many people assuming that a lack of announcements equals a lack of signings or activity? There is nothing that requires any signing to be announced immediately. It is entirely possible that some of our free agents have been re-signed but not announced. It is not only possible but I would say probable that we have signed a number of new players but not announced those signings.

[Argocister]

............ It is not only possible but I would say probable that we have signed a number of new players but not announced those signings.

No sooner than you said this ........ I read on twitter

#Argos add...
WR @DBelcher88:
P/K @JoshJasper30:
DE PaiPai Falemalu:

http://argonauts.ca/roster/show/id/6679?utm_source=social&utm_medium=hootsuite&utm_campaign=twitter

http://argonauts.ca/roster/show/id/5559?utm_source=social&utm_medium=hootsuite&utm_campaign=twitter

http://argonauts.ca/roster/show/id/6681?utm_source=social&utm_medium=hootsuite&utm_campaign=twitter

[ArgoRavi]

Just on the basis of his name alone - much like with SirVincent Rogers - you hope that Falemalu can make the team.

[Argo57]

Again, why are so many people assuming that a lack of announcements equals a lack of signings or activity? There is nothing that requires any signing to be announced immediately. It is entirely possible that some of our free agents have been re-signed but not announced. It is not only possible but I would say probable that we have signed a number of new players but not announced those signings.

I'm sure if they have signed any of their own free agents it would have been announced.

[gilthethrill]

In Belchers case he has not played football in two years after getting dismissed from Indiana. He had some good stats and is a tall receiver. One of the things I love about the CFL that year after year players with a past are given an opportunity to play pro ball at a high level.

[ArgoGabe22]

In Belchers case he has not played football in two years after getting dismissed from Indiana. He had some good stats and is a tall receiver. One of the things I love about the CFL that year after year players with a past are given an opportunity to play pro ball at a high level.

I never understood how guys with a criminal record get into Canada. I always thought players with a past would be inadmissible to entering the country.

"According to a Bloomington Police Department release, the 24-year-old Belcher has admitted to an Oct. 30 robbery on North Walnut Street in Bloomington. The release said the robbery was set up as a marijuana buy, but the purported buyer (Belcher) pulled out a gun and robbed about 4 ounces of marijuana from the dealer."

[doubleblue]

No sooner than you said this ........ I read on twitter

#Argos add...
WR @DBelcher88:
P/K @JoshJasper30:
DE PaiPai Falemalu:

http://argonauts.ca/roster/show/id/6679?utm_source=social&utm_medium=hootsuite&utm_campaign=twitter

http://argonauts.ca/roster/show/id/5559?utm_source=social&utm_medium=hootsuite&utm_campaign=twitter

http://argonauts.ca/roster/show/id/6681?utm_source=social&utm_medium=hootsuite&utm_campaign=twitter

Like the earlier signing these guys were legitimate first team players in Div I football. Belcher was rated 1st Team All Conference in his Senior year before he messed up. Jasper was a better field goal kicker than a punter. 3rd Team All Conference. (Hopefully Waters is resigned). Falemalu was 3rd Team All Conference Mountain West.

[paulwoods13]

I'm sure if they have signed any of their own free agents it would have been announced.

I'm not. As I said above, why throw announcements out there randomly when there are no tickets to sell yet and lots of other sports to compete with for attention? It's entirely possible they haven't re-signed their FAs -- if I was one of them, I would definitely wait to see the market rate for my services before deciding where to play -- but it is not out of the question IMO that some have quietly been re-signed.

[Argo57]

I'm not. As I said above, why throw announcements out there randomly when there are no tickets to sell yet and lots of other sports to compete with for attention? It's entirely possible they haven't re-signed their FAs -- if I was one of them, I would definitely wait to see the market rate for my services before deciding where to play -- but it is not out of the question IMO that some have quietly been re-signed.

Hopefully you are right Paul, next week will be very interesting for sure!!!

[Neely2005]

2014 Free Agent Forecast: Toronto Argonauts

http://www.cfl.ca/article/2014-free-agent-forecast-toronto-argonauts

[ArgoGabe22]

Watkins has gone AWOL. Waters, Rempel and Xander Robinson had NFL opportunities (kind of surprised). Something at York may be done regarding practice facility?


"I don't believe in building through free agency."
Argos general manager Jim Barker uttered those words during an interview with TSN 1050 radio just prior to the CFL's annual free agent frenzy.

If you turn back the clock Barker is true to his word. Last February the only free agent the team added was LB/DE James Yurichuk. He proved his worth as a situational player who excelled on special teams, but it was far from being the kind of deal that captured the attention of more than just the die-hard fan.
This may be a similar season in terms of who the Argos bring in according to Barker.

"I do believe in plugging holes (via free agency) and trying to find that right guy that's going to bring our club up a notch," Barker noted.

The bigger question may be what the club does about three specific players who may opt to not return to Toronto, Pat Watkins, Robert McCune and Swayze Waters.

Watkins, a league all-star at cornerback last year, would be the toughest to replace. He's also been the hardest to find.

"Honestly we have not been able to get in touch with him. He doesn't return our calls, which is a bad thing," chuckled Barker. "If a guy doesn't want to be in Toronto then god bless him and good luck. We're persistent. We're sending players to his house, doing all those kind of things to try and run him down. But Pat is one of those guys who is very elusive. It's not a shocking development for us. It's possible he's just involved in something and not worried about it."

Swayze Waters led the CFL in punting average and was virtually automatic on field goals down the stretch and is looking at returning to the states.

"He's tried out for a couple of NFL teams," Barker told TSN 1050. "Every indication he's given us is that he's coming back to Toronto if he comes back to the CFL."

The Argos are preparing for the scenario where Waters makes an NFL team, and last week signed LSU grad Josh Jasper.

Robert McCune's worth was evident in the team's loss to Hamilton in the Eastern Final. The middle linebacker, who was third in the league with 99 tackles, missed the game with a shoulder injury. It seemed every time Henry Burris scrambled, he ran right where McCune would have been.

"With Robert we're kind of waiting," said the GM. "Obviously Robert had a great year for us. He's 34 years old. That's a decision that we're in the process of making, to which direction we're going to go with him."

If the Argos and McCune were to part ways it would leave the team down a couple of middle linebackers, as Jason Pottinger was selected by Ottawa in the expansion draft. Barker has a replacement all picked out, someone who may not be thought of as an MLB.

"Shane Horton. That's his natural position." Barker said, then may have tipped his hand about McCune's future. "(Horton) played out of position playing rush end last year. He's going to be a very, very good middle linebacker."

Barker added he feels that at 215 pounds, Horton is big enough to play in the middle. Herve Tonye-Tonye, a non-import who just completed his rookie season, can also play the inside.

As far as non-imports are concerned, it may be an interesting free agency period because of the recent expansion draft. Stocking the Ottawa RedBlacks took its toll on the existing teams' rosters, so there will be a desire to restock the shelves with fresh talent.

Barker commented on a few of the Canadians on the Argos that are on the verge of free agency.

Chad Rempel, long snapper: "Chad worked out with Tampa Bay (NFL). He wants to give that a chance until that's exhausted."

Zander Robinson, tight end/fullback: "Zander loves being in Toronto and loves how we've used him in the offence. He's a valuable guy for us, but he's also exploring NFL opportunities."

David Lee, defensive end: "Is a guy that had a real good year for us. I think he wants to try the free-agent market. It's his first time going through that and I think he's a guy that wants to go out and see what the market is all about."

Mike Bradwell, wide receiver. "I think we're really close. He loves being in Toronto."

Coaching Moves/Tryout Camp:

The Boatmen lost several coaches in the off-season. Special teams coordinator Mike O'Shea left to become the head coach of the Winnipeg Blue Bombers, while defensive coordinator Chris Jones took over the head coaching job with the Edmonton Eskimos. Jones also took a handful of assistant coaches with him. Barker says there will be announcement about the new-look staff in the immediate future.

"We're excited about what our staff is going to look like" said Barker. "Scott (head coach Milanovich) will be announcing those (soon). He's come up with a couple of guys who have great CFL experience.”

Barker spoke to TSN 1050 from Atlanta, where the Argos were hosting a tryout camp. Over 60 players were in attendance and Barker was happy with what they found.

"There were two players that we're going to attempt to sign" said the GM. "We're pretty excited."

If those players head north in June they'll attend training camp. Where that will be is still anyone's guess. The team will not be back at the University of Toronto's Erindale campus and at present are homeless. Where are they heading?

"Those are questions for (Executive Chairman and CEO) Chris Rudge. "I know that there's some different things going on with York University," said Barker. "Other than that, I'm not privy to those things.”

[Argo]

Watkins has gone AWOL. Waters, Rempel and Xander Robinson had NFL opportunities (kind of surprised). Something at York may be done regarding practice facility?

Hopefully, all of the above, and Bradwell, return. I was impressed by Robinson whenever he played. Who knows what's up with Watkins, really. Waters makes an NFL team, I'd wager. McCune's return would be a positive, however the Horton Plan sounds like a plan, if the interior of the D line is strong.

[Shatto]

Bradwell, just resigned--good signing --solid player and very good special teams player

[Argo57]

Hopefully, all of the above, and Bradwell, return. I was impressed by Robinson whenever he played. Who knows what's up with Watkins, really. Waters makes an NFL team, I'd wager. McCune's return would be a positive, however the Horton Plan sounds like a plan, if the interior of the D line is strong.

I don't expect Watkins back in T.O this season, good player but disappeared a couple of times last year.

[OV Argo]

Hopefully, all of the above, and Bradwell, return. I was impressed by Robinson whenever he played. Who knows what's up with Watkins, really. Waters makes an NFL team, I'd wager. McCune's return would be a positive, however the Horton Plan sounds like a plan, if the interior of the D line is strong.

Who replaced McCune in the East final? - Barker says Horton is a "natural" MLB ? - but his college bio says he switched from safety to linebacker when he got to USC, and wasn't Manti (tall) Tales, or whatever his name is, the star MLB at USC ?

And I really hope Watkins isn't hiding out from the Argos cause he's been plotting to join Steinauer with the Pussycats (as McCullough did last year as a FA); because that move would really hurt: strengthens the Cats where they need real help, and weakens the Argos further where they cannot afford it.

[argotom]

Oh no, not only Waters but now we hear about Rempel.
Two of the crucial parts in the punting department.
If Waters leaves, no one can replace his incredible hang time and ever improving field goals.
Here is the latest.

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/10/argos-navigating-uncertain-times-as-free-agency-looms

[Argo]

Who replaced McCune in the East final? - Barker says Horton is a "natural" MLB ? - but his college bio says he switched from safety to linebacker when he got to USC, and wasn't Manti (tall) Tales, or whatever his name is, the star MLB at USC ?

And I really hope Watkins isn't hiding out from the Argos cause he's been plotting to join Steinauer with the Pussycats (as McCullough did last year as a FA); because that move would really hurt: strengthens the Cats where they need real help, and weakens the Argos further where they cannot afford it.

Generally I'm not enthralled with convert-a-player projects, and may simply be tired of feeling a tad pessimistic (*) about the team (though it's early days yet).
Also, 215 lbs. seems light for a MLB these days, even in the CFL. (A quick search didn't reveal the CFL average.) McCune weighs a solid 30 lbs. more.

(*) For example, the field has lately, repeatedly, tilted in favour of the Ti-Cats vs. the Argos. As you note there has been speculation that Watkins may jump to Hamilton and, indeed, "that move would strengthen the Cats where they need real help, and weaken the Argos where they cannot afford it".

Good to hear that Bradwell has inked another contract.

[OV Argo]

I liked Horton as an aggressive play-making newcomer to the Argo D last year - and playing that hybrid DE or front 7 guy in Jones' D; however - just curious about Barker calling him a "natural" MLB who will be "very, very good" there in the CFL? - and the reporter can't connect his own dots about McCune missing in the play-off last season with the Ticats finding holes there ... ? IF - McCune cannot be re-signed (or is not wanted back) - that leaves an obvious hole at MLB; maybe Horton is the guy, but there should be lots of competition in TC (why can't Tonye-Tonye or Yurichuck get a shot there? - maybe Greenwood is signed; other new import FAs; some good MLB prospects up this draft too IMO ?). Of course though - good ole pencilling-in never happens, right AV ? ;o)

Not really worried about the Pussycats that much - even if they sign Watkins. Big-time over-rated on the basis of getting to the GC last year thanks to an epic Argo dumb-@$$ melt-down. Gotta give Kent-boy some credit as an HC - leads the Riders to a GC win there and then takes Hamilton to the GC; BUT - i believe he may be quite over-rated too as a HC; we shall see and he may prove me quite wrong with an even better Ticat season upcoming - hitched to Collaros as QB ?

[ArgoRavi]

I think that Watkins will head to Edmonton if he signs anywhere but Toronto. It is also possible that he might just retire. And let's all remember that we still have the best QB in the east which, on its own, will take us far.


I liked Horton as an aggressive play-making newcomer to the Argo D last year; however - just curious about Barker calling him a "natural" MLB who will be "very, very good" there in the CFL? - and the reporter can't connect his own dots about McCune missing in the play-off last season with the Ticats finding holes there ... ? IF - McCune cannot be re-signed (or is not wanted back) - that leaves an obvious hole at MLB; maybe Horton is the guy, but there should be lots of competition in TC (why can't Tonye-Tonye or Yurichuck get a shot there? - maybe Greenwood is signed; other new import FAs; some good MLB prospects up this draft too IMO ?).

Not really worried about the Pussycats that much - even if they sign Watkins. Big-time over-rated on the basis of getting to the GC last year thanks to an epic Argo dumb-@$$ melt-down. Gotta give Kent-boy some credit as an HC - leads the Riders to a GC win there and then takes Hamilton to the GC; BUT - i believe he may be quite over-rated too as a HC; we shall see and he may prove me quite wrong with an even better Ticat season upcoming - hitched to Collaros as QB ?

Did they fail on defence in the EF because they were missing McCune though? His absence did not help but the Ticats were able to exploit the Toronto defence all season and we all had concerns with that defence late in the season and heading into the playoffs. Horton will be a candidate for the MLB job but there will certainly be competition for that spot, especially with a new defensive coordinator in the mix.

As for the Ticats, that is a team that could go either way IMO. I am not totally sold on Austin as Hamilton's saviour either, OV. Also, who knows how Collaros will fit in with that offence? He will certainly be facing an enormous amount of pressure there.

[Wobbler]

I expect that we'll be able to field a pretty good team again this year even with some unexpected departures. As Ravi said, as long as we have Ray we'll be competitive. The current chaos is more entertaining than concerning. I think the fact that we can't even *find* Watkins is hilarious, and a fine example of the crazy-yet-wonderful stuff that only seems to happen in the CFL!

[argolio]

wasn't Manti (tall) Tales, or whatever his name is, the star MLB at USC ?No, he played at Notre Dame.

[OV Argo]

No, he played at Notre Dame.


Ooops - yeah -was Horton the starting MLB at USC in his final season there ?

[ArgoRavi]

Ooops - yeah -was Horton the starting MLB at USC in his final season there ?

No, from doing a Google search, he lost his starting linebacker job in his senior season at USC. He actually started his university career as a safety but was moved to linebacker for his final three seasons. It seems as though he played weak side linebacker at USC.

[Neely2005]

Rumour Mill: McCune likely to test free agent market:

http://cfl.ca/article/2014-free-agency-rumour-mill

(http://cfl.ca/article/2014-free-agency-rumour-mill)#Argos (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Argos&src=hash) LB Robert McCune will likely hit FA. TOR told him they wouldnt re-sign w/o all def coaches. McCune is thinking about options #CFLFA14

https://twitter.com/TSNScianitti/statuses/433247403576029184 (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23CFLFA14&src=hash)




(http://cfl.ca/article/2014-free-agency-rumour-mill)

[ArgoGabe22]

Watkins returned to school to finish his degree. I don't think he has an agent, since it seems the Argos have tried to get into contact with him. I don't think he'll be signed today. Does he even know that it is free agency today? Unrelated but no one mentioned it before but Watkins was mentioned by ex-Cowboy & drug dealer Sam Hurd in a SI article in November.

[bigzee19]

I am a huge McCune fan in case you all don't know. I am sick and tired of having guys come for a few years then be sent on their way. McCune, I believe if he had played we would have been better on defence in the east final and may have won. Top defence player in my opinion on the team and had a monster year again. Similar to Kuale but much bigger, their playing style and aggressiveness is what we need on this defence. We all have our favourite players on offence I have mine and on defence. Sometimes we shouldn't let our emotions get the best of us but this really pi##es me off.

[Skinny G]

Shea Emry to Toronto...does this mean no McCune?

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=443596


(http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=443596)

[paulwoods13]

Wow. I thought Emry was a bit overrated last season and had a worse year than McCune, but his NI status makes him hugely valuable. Now we can start just three NI o-linemen and still have ratio flex.

[Neely2005]

Shea Emry to Toronto...does this mean no McCune?

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=443596


(http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=443596)

Probably not, read Post # 54 in this Thread.

[OV Argo]

Hmmm - interesting; shows a few things maybe: Emry played for both Burke and Millanovich before = coaches often bring in their guys - players they know & like from before; McCune was maybe more of a Jones guy (played for him in Calgary right ?) - and i guess this means McCune will not be back ? Emry would have cost quite a few $M$ bucks - so limits some other potential signings - and maybe they have written off getting Greenwood (Emry has proven he can play well at MLB in the CFL; Greenwood is unproven there (though i bet might be as good or better?) = Emry pencilled in as the starting MLB? - with NI back-ups in Tonye-Tonye or Yurichuck ; but what about Shane Horton who Braker said is "going to be" a great MLB ? - maybe he plays OLB in a Burke defence ? Greenwood comes free and then what - no way they pay him big CFL bucks and have him and Emry with only one starting on D - unless one could be moved to OLB? I guess Greenwood would be a nice tradeable commodity to have.

As far as the knee-jerk roster/ratio reaction with Emry - a NI ratio "buster" or however the cliche goes - meaning lets hand starting jobs to imports elsewhere: could be i guess / whatever. But I'd be in favor or real TC competition deciding these things rather than pre-determined you know what. Just like - IF Horton is this great MLB like Barker says - maybe he wins the MLB job in TC; Emry isn't going to be paid big bucks to be a back-up or special teamer, but he could be cut or a tradeable commodity as well.

[Neely2005]

ARGOS ADD FREE AGENT CANADIAN OL SCOTT MITCHELL:

http://www.argonauts.ca/article/argos-add-ol-scott-mitchell

[ArgoRavi]

ARGOS ADD FREE AGENT CANADIAN OL SCOTT MITCHELL:

http://www.argonauts.ca/article/argos-add-ol-scott-mitchell

The Argos, interestingly enough, have lost Andrew Jones to those same Esks: http://www.cfl.ca/article/fa14-eskimos-sign-veteran-o-lineman-andrew-jones

[OV Argo]

The Argos, interestingly enough, have lost Andrew Jones to those same Esks: http://www.cfl.ca/article/fa14-eskimos-sign-veteran-o-lineman-andrew-jones

Yeah - interestin'; but I'd take that trade-off anyday for the Argos; Jones is a former college ball D-lineman who was converted to O-Line in the CFL and hasn't done much or became a starter; Mitchell is a former starting OT in Div. I ball, a 2nd overall CFL draft pick, has started some for the Esks (converted to guard like happens to a lot of accomplished college ball Canadian OTs in the CFL), and is 7 years younger than Jones.

I thought Ottawa would be going after Mitchell for sure - being he's young / from Ottawa and a former top CFL draft pick; maybe they did and were outbid by the Argos ? I'm also starting to believe that the new Ottawa team is a touch clueless and not that up on Canadian talent available.

[ArgoGabe22]

I'm also starting to believe that the new Ottawa team is a touch clueless and not that up on Canadian talent available.

OV was that you hacked Kevin Glenn's twitter account? BTW Kohlert did in fact sign with the Bombers

[OV Argo]

OV was that you hacked Kevin Glenn's twitter account? BTW Kohlert did in fact sign with the Bombers


Apparently the potential gong show twins in Ottawa - Desjardins & Campbell - claimed they took Kohlert in the expansion draft only because they had to pick somebody, they thought he would not be signable and they didn't want anyone else ??? Oh really ? - we didn't get to see the protected lists from that expansion draft but obviously the Bombers couldn't protect all the NIs on their roster, and I guarantee that there were some players available there who are former CFL draft picks or former CIS all-star players who just might have competed in TC for an Ottawa team that basically has very little in terms of NI talent heading into TC at this point. And meanwhile too - a number of CFL teams (like the Bombers) have signed a good number of CFL NI free agents this off-season, while Moe & Curly in Ottawa have done little, yet they are the team with by far the biggest roster needs ???

[paulwoods13]

I don't know much about Mitchell, but Jones is no loss on the field. He's excellent in the community (as part of the anti-bullying squadron) but maxed out as a 7th/8th o-lineman at best. Have to believe Mitchell can develop into much more than that.

[gilthethrill]

OV was that you hacked Kevin Glenn's twitter account? BTW Kohlert did in fact sign with the Bombers

I suspect it was AV....he has been hard on Glenn for years for no reason...although I was looking forward to Glenn being a starter in the East Division.

[ArgoGabe22]

I suspect it was AV....he has been hard on Glenn for years for no reason...although I was looking forward to Glenn being a starter in the East Division.

I suspect there was some sort of an incident between AV and Glenn at IW a few years back. Perhaps a "nice game pretty boy" comment ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsxzmkm2vRc

[gilthethrill]

I suspect there was some sort of an incident between AV and Glenn at IW a few years back. Perhaps a "nice game pretty boy" comment ?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gsxzmkm2vRc

LOL!!! I will be giggling out loud for the next couple hours!!

[flafson]

I can't believe Ottawa lost Kohlert after drafting him. That must be some PR blunder. They were probably better off drafting Collaros as a free agent.

[Argo]

I can't believe Ottawa lost Kohlert after drafting him. That must be some PR blunder. They were probably better off drafting Collaros as a free agent.

And here I was giving Desjardins the benefit of the doubt...

[AngeloV]

I suspect it was AV....he has been hard on Glenn for years for no reason...although I was looking forward to Glenn being a starter in the East Division.

I had nothing to do with it, honest.

[Nob]

Swayze Waters sent out on twitter tonight that he has resigned with the Argos. This is great news, and caps off a very good day.

[D-Gap-Willie]

The addition of SHea Emery to the LB core is great news. Now we need to re-sign McCune.

http://www.argonauts.ca/article/all-star-addition-argos-sign-lb-shea-emery

[Argo57]

Swayze Waters sent out on twitter tonight that he has resigned with the Argos. This is great news, and caps off a very good day.

Agreed!!
Good work Mr Barker!!!!!


The addition of SHea Emery to the LB core is great news. Now we need to re-sign McCune.

http://www.argonauts.ca/article/all-star-addition-argos-sign-lb-shea-emery

Don't think we need McCune now.
Linebacking core looks good (Emry-Horton-Ball) assuming Ball returns, pretty athletic quick and aggressive.
I think Tim Burke's role in Emry signing has been overlooked, obviously had a great relationship in Montreal when Burke was the DC, my guess is players really like playing for him.

[Argocister]

............
I think Tim Burke's role in Emry signing has been overlooked, obviously had a great relationship in Montreal when Burke was the DC, my guess is players really like playing for him.
Very interesting .... It always bodes well for the team if the players have a good relationship with the coach.

[D-Gap-Willie]

Don't think we need McCune now.
Linebacking core looks good (Emry-Horton-Ball) assuming Ball returns, pretty athletic quick and aggressive.
I think Tim Burke's role in Emry signing has been overlooked, obviously had a great relationship in Montreal when Burke was the DC, my guess is players really like playing for him.
I'm not that sold on Horton yet , and continue to believe that Emery is a little small at 215-220 for MLB. How do you like the idea of Emery - McCune - Ball. I like it, especially with Burke's defensive schemes and the resurgence of the running game in the CFL.

[Argo57]

I'm not that sold on Horton yet , and continue to believe that Emery is a little small at 215-220 for MLB. How do you like the idea of Emery - McCune - Ball. I like it, especially with Burke's defensive schemes and the resurgence of the running game in the CFL.

Emry-McCune-Ball does sound good as well but my guess is McCune's salary demands, age and the fact the team has other viable options at the position will prevent his return to T.O.

[Neely2005]

The addition of SHea Emery to the LB core is great news. Now we need to re-sign McCune.

http://www.argonauts.ca/article/all-star-addition-argos-sign-lb-shea-emery

See Post # 54 in this Thread. It doesn't sound like we'll be re-signing McCune.

[ArgoRavi]

I'm not that sold on Horton yet , and continue to believe that Emery is a little small at 215-220 for MLB. How do you like the idea of Emery - McCune - Ball. I like it, especially with Burke's defensive schemes and the resurgence of the running game in the CFL.

Emry has proven himself as an all-star MLB though so it would appear as though he isn't too small. McCune is certainly not coming back at this point.

[Neely2005]

Hearing <s>#</s>Als (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Als&src=hash) are showing some interest in LB Robert McCune. No deal yet. <s>#</s>CFLFA14 (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23CFLFA14&src=hash)

https://twitter.com/TSNScianitti/status/433608408868978688

[ArgoGabe22]

Watkins has signed with Jones in Edmonton. Biggest loss IMO will be Watkins. I wonder if he purposely snubbed us or was just busy with his studies?

[matchuk]

well, im really excited about the emry signing...i think that is a huge upgrade for us, and now he finally wont burn us like he has so many times in the past...as for watkins, that will be a huge loss...

[bluto]

Sucks about Watkins.

i was hoping that he'd remember howpatient the organization was with him last season during his "personal issues" and that he might show us some loyalty.

Intrigued by the Emry acquisition. i think that he will fit into Burke's established NI MLB paradigm.

[Neely2005]

Toronto Argonauts the early winners in CFL free agency:

http://www.thespec.com/sports-story/4362827-toronto-argonauts-the-early-winners-in-cfl-free-agency/

[ArgoRavi]

Watkins has signed with Jones in Edmonton. Biggest loss IMO will be Watkins. I wonder if he purposely snubbed us or was just busy with his studies?

I suspect that the Argos had little chance at re-signing Watkins after Jones left for Edmonton.

[OV Argo]

David Lee to the Riders - according to Riderfans.

[ArgoGabe22]

David Lee to the Riders - according to Riderfans.

I wonder how Area51 feels about this. I hope Lee gets a lot of reps at DE.

[eiben35]

Love the Shea Emry signing. I guess Yurichuck and Tonye-Tonye are going to be the back-ups in case Emry gets banged up. He loves oplaying in Tim Burke's defence as opposed to Noel Thorpe's. That is one of the reasons that he signed here. I have a feeling that Casey Creehan will be a coach here as well. Good luck Shea.

[eiben35]

Liked the Scott Mitchell signing but I don't know what happened with him in Edmonton. The Esks were all excited when they drafted him high about three years ago. Maybe injuries hurt him a bit. Will be a good relacement for Andrew Jones.

[eiben35]

Can anyone give me there thoughts on David Lee and whether or not we will miss him? I've beeen a fan for the past couple of years but I'm wondering if he was a bit too slow and not strong enough to play well on the dee-line.:cry:

[OV Argo]

I wonder how Area51 feels about this. I hope Lee gets a lot of reps at DE.


Lee would be rated a useless stiff by that great scout 51 - as befalls pretty well any NI / CIS player or any other DE in the CFL not named Foley - he said on Riderfans. last spring that Lee would get cut by the Argos.

[paulwoods13]

I cannot begin to convey how fervently I am hoping that Lee beats out Foley. According to A535 there is no chance of that happening in a million years. We'll see.

[294life]

Argofan87's belle is quite upset over this as are many Als fans. I'm fine with it myself.

[doubleblue]

I thought David Lee had good speed for a D Lineman. Still learning to play the game IMO. I guess the Riders were looking for some depth behind Foley. The Argos have sixth pick in the draft, I wonder now if they are looking at the DT from Manitoba Gill. He is rated #6. They need a depth guy behind Laing.

[Argocister]

So with Lee not resigning .... Do you think it was ....
i) he wanted to try other offers.... Which means we didn't have or want to spend the money on him
ii) he really doesn't fit in Burkes system?

.... Or of course all of the above

[argolio]

Watkins has signed with Jones in Edmonton. Biggest loss IMO will be Watkins. I wonder if he purposely snubbed us or was just busy with his studies?Maybe Jones was the only person who had his phone number.

[ArgoRavi]

So with Lee not resigning .... Do you think it was ....
i) he wanted to try other offers.... Which means we didn't have or want to spend the money on him
ii) he really doesn't fit in Burkes system?

.... Or of course all of the above

Barker sounded like he wanted Lee back but he mentioned how Lee wanted to see what he could get on the open market. I thought that Lee's play wasn't quite as strong last year as in 2012 but his best game may have been the game that the Argos won in Regina. It is unfortunate to see him go, especially considering the excellent job that the Argos did in finding Lee as a free agent in the first place but so it goes.

[ArgoRavi]

According to Frank Zicarelli, the Argos were not all that interested in re-signing Watkins: http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/12/argos-re-sign-talented-kicker-waters

[argofandave]

Maybe the Argos could get Sammy Hagar to replace David Lee..........

[Argocister]

Any news on Rempel? Especially now that Swayze has re-signed.

[flafson]

According to Frank Zicarelli, the Argos were not all that interested in re-signing Watkins: http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/12/argos-re-sign-talented-kicker-waters

Damn, we have another 4 road games... One of them being Hamilton though.

[Neely2005]

ARGOS ADD PAIR OF LINEMEN: RE-SIGN WAYNE SMITH, ADD 2013 DRAFT PICK MATT SEWELL:

http://www.argonauts.ca/article/argos-add-pair-of-linemen-re-sign-wayne-smith-add-2013-draft-pick-matt-sewell

[ArgoGabe22]

Rempel is trying out with an NFL team (Tampa?) and so is Xander Robinson.

[Argo]

Man, Waters' re-signing is great news. IMO - particularly in the CFL and with the luxury of having only one man handle all kicking duties - there's the QB, the Kicker, and then everyone else.

[Argo]

Rempel is trying out with an NFL team (Tampa?) and so is Xander Robinson.

These guys would be missed, each in their own way. There (at least) seems to have been an uptick in CFL-to-NFL transfer, and I can envision both of these athletes fitting into the large roster of an NFL team.

[doubleblue]

Rempel would be missed, he Is an excellent long snapper. But It would open a spot for another up and comer.

Concerning Cory Greenwood. Now that Emry is the new MLB going forward and probably didn't just come Toronto because he wanted to play for Creenan and Burke. IMO Greenwood would only come back to Canada if he got good starting money, but that money has gone to Emry. Jim Barker is not one to keep a player out of the League for spite like some GM's. So just wondering would he be open to trading Greenwood to a Team like Ottawa for a 1st rounder. Greenwood a Kingston boy who played not to far from Ottawa at Concordia might be more what Ottawa needs right now instead of a project OLineman (who may go to the NFL for awhile).

[Nob]

No problem with trading for a draft pick - but wonder if it's better to get a 2015 draft pick. As Duanne Ford continues to mention that due to the changes in draft status (no more "futures" kids going back to school), next year's draft should be stronger than this year's draft.

[gilthethrill]

According to Frank Zicarelli, the Argos were not all that interested in re-signing Watkins: http://www.torontosun.com/2014/02/12/argos-re-sign-talented-kicker-waters

I for one would like to know why.

[ArgoGabe22]

I for one would like to know why.

My guess is they tried contacting him after the season, couldn't and decided to move on. Unless there is more that we outsiders wouldn't know about.

[Argo57]

My guess is they tried contacting him after the season, couldn't and decided to move on. Unless there is more that we outsiders wouldn't know about.

I'm sure there is a lot more behind the scenes with Watkins IMO, he did a good job while an Argo but I am not devastated at all that he has moved on.

[OV Argo]

No problem with trading for a draft pick - but wonder if it's better to get a 2015 draft pick. As Duanne Ford continues to mention that due to the changes in draft status (no more "futures" kids going back to school), next year's draft should be stronger than this year's draft.

Yes - that's been mentioned - maybe a weaker draft year with no more NCAA redshirt Juniors; however - as i understand the new rules - 3rd year CIS players will now be draftable (?) - and if that is a case, this would be a draft year with basically twice as many CIS players available (?) - including a whack of 3rd year CIS players who are all-stars (like Manitoba RB Anthony Coombs); SO - in some ways, a bonus draft year ?

I do NOT understand why they would change the rules to allow 3rd year CIS players to be drafted ??? - the player could still have 2 years of CIS eligibility left; so they went one way with draftable Canadian players who are in US colllege ball, but the other direction with CIS draftable players ???

[OV Argo]

Still a couple of FA DEs who have played for Burke before - in Kenny Mainor and Alex Hall (rumored to get another NFL shot ?) ?

[Argo57]

Still a couple of FA DEs who have played for Burke before - in Kenny Mainor and Alex Hall (rumored to get another NFL shot ?) ?

Both would look great in Double blue.

[doubleblue]

Yes - that's been mentioned - maybe a weaker draft year with no more NCAA redshirt Juniors; however - as i understand the new rules - 3rd year CIS players will now be draftable (?) - and if that is a case, this would be a draft year with basically twice as many CIS players available (?) - including a whack of 3rd year CIS players who are all-stars (like Manitoba RB Anthony Coombs); SO - in some ways, a bonus draft year ?

I do NOT understand why they would change the rules to allow 3rd year CIS players to be drafted ??? - the player could still have 2 years of CIS eligibility left; so they went one way with draftable Canadian players who are in US colllege ball, but the other direction with CIS draftable players ???

I'm going to have to find the new draft rules again. I understood it to mean the players that redshirt in the NCAA won't be drafted until after their Senior year. Players in the CIS would drafted be after their fourth year and they could still return for a fifth year in the CIS.

[Argocister]

New draft rules ..... http://cfl.ca/article/cfl-adjusts-eligibility-rules-for-draft

.........For players with non-import status playing in the CIS, they will be eligible to be selected in the CFL Draft three years after completing their first year of CIS eligibility.

Previously, a CIS player was eligible to be selected after their fourth year of post-secondary education.

In addition, the CFL also adjusted the eligibility rules for players with non-import status playing in the NCAA or NAIA. They will now be eligible to be selected in the CFL Draft after their senior season of NCAA or NAIA eligibility.

[OV Argo]

New draft rules ..... http://cfl.ca/article/cfl-adjusts-eligibility-rules-for-draft

.........For players with non-import status playing in the CIS, they will be eligible to be selected in the CFL Draft three years after completing their first year of CIS eligibility.

Previously, a CIS player was eligible to be selected after their fourth year of post-secondary education.

In addition, the CFL also adjusted the eligibility rules for players with non-import status playing in the NCAA or NAIA. They will now be eligible to be selected in the CFL Draft after their senior season of NCAA or NAIA eligibility.


OK - so that seems to mean that CIS players will only be draftable after 4 years (3 years AFTER they complete their first year there) ? But I was confused because some players listed as 3rd year guys are on this year's draft prospects list or talk (like Anthony Coombs - RB out of Manitoba); but playing some Junior ball can eat up some CIS eligibility i believe, so that can be a factor ?

Previously - CIS players were draftable 4 years after they started post secondary school education - regardless of wether they played in all those years. Not sure still though - on how "CIS eligibility" is started ???

[ArgoGabe22]

The CFL needs to change their rules in regard to Canadians playing in the US, making it easier for those ho got their training outside of Canada. For example, 2/3 of the Westerman brothers are non-imports while the other would be considered an import.

[AngeloV]

3rd year guys are on this year's draft prospects list or talk (like Anthony Coombs - RB out of Manitoba); but playing some Junior ball can eat up some CIS eligibility i believe, so that can be a factor ?



That is correct. A few years back they changed a rule in CIS regarding former Junior players. Back in the 80's and 90's it was not uncommon to see Canada West players playing into their late 20's. Now, for each year of Junior ball played, you lose a year of eligibility in the CIS.

Good move IMO. If I was a parent, I wouldn't want my true freshman 18 year old son playing against a 25-28 year old who's body is fully matured and has 10 years more playing experience.

[OV Argo]

That is correct. A few years back they changed a rule in CIS regarding former Junior players. Back in the 80's and 90's it was not uncommon to see Canada West players playing into their late 20's. Now, for each year of Junior ball played, you lose a year of eligibility in the CIS.

Good move IMO. If I was a parent, I wouldn't want my true freshman 18 year old son playing against a 25-28 year old who's body is fully matured and has 10 years more playing experience.


AV - are you sure it is one year of CIS eligibilty for each year of Junior ball played? - i thought there might have been another formula - like lose one year of CIS for 2 or more years of Junior?

Anyhow - I'm still confused on the CIS "eligibility" thing? Before the rule change, a CIS player was draftable 4 years after he entered post secondary school - and regardless of wether he played football - the clock started ticking. How is it different for CIS guys now with the CFL draft? And I read that Anthony Coombs - draftable this year apparently after playing just 3 years of CIS ball for the Bisons (same with team-mate Evan Gill) had "redshirted" a year there ? - so - they want to take that away from US college Canadians, but have it in place for CIS players ? ?? -not sure i get or understand the rules still.

As to your last point - I do not agree, but i get where some people are coming from on the issue of younger players having to compete against older (and more experienced players) - there was a lot of cry-babying after Manitoba won the Vanier in 07 with a lot of ex-Junior players who were in their mid 20s. I say so what / big-deal (just IMO) - if you are in University and actually getting schooling (should have to be attending classes / passing courses), then you should be allowed to play any sport on campus; again though I sort of get the age / competition issue, but if you want to compete in University sport, you should understand you might be up against older athletes. If a 30 some your old guy goes back to University to further his education or finish a degree, why should he be restricted from playing a sport he loves, for his school ? And if a college football program is recruiting a lot of older ex-Junior players, maybe they are doing them a big benefit by helping with their education (and again - they should have to qualify to play by proof of class attendance or grades).

[OV Argo]

E. Legare still available i see = bring him back to the Argos; has plenty of CFL expeirence now and IMO has played very well when given a chance (very good when he played lots for the Esks - better than, IMO, highly rated Ted Laurent when they both played when Laurent was a rookie); has had some health or injury issues and if that is still an issue, then no; good depth guy at DT at the very least and maybe better than or even a platoon situation with Laing at DT; and hardly going to be costly $M$ wise i would think.

[Argocister]

CIS players , for most of the country, have 7 years to complete 5 years max of playing football.( no other sport has this restriction) Most don't make a competitive roster at age 18 . The old rule was based on starting your post high school education.
So whether you sit for a couple years on the practice roster, do a victory lap, play junior football or go to the CEGEP in Quebec, your draft eligibility will start 3 yrs after starting to play in the CIS. Some players may only play CIS for 3 years. Eg at Laval, not many are starters their first year Most players / coaches will try and plan their schooling etc in order to maximize their eligibility.
In the Q, they finish high school at grade 11 then continue onto CEGEP. So in Quebec, they have 8 yrs after high school to complete max 5 yrs playing in the CIS. Usually, one takes 2 yrs of CEGEP before continuing onto university. Many will stay an extra year for development .... Some even 4. Of course the extra years cut into their eligibility years.

Of course the CIS is looking at changing their eligibility rules to a straight complete a max 5 years of playing before age 24 .... Problem is a some provinces base their school age on the school year ( sept) rather than the calendar year.... Which makes the rule discriminatory for those whose birthdays are October to dec. ....... Sorry to rant and confuse the matter further.

For both the CIS and the NCAA new rules, it will be better for the teams. At least
i) the players, if drafted can join the team for training camp that year. The CIS players can be sent back for their last year of eligibility. I believe if they have been drafted, there is a 2 year limit where the player is still "property" of the team ..... Or the team that drafted them has first dibs for 2 yrs.
ii) the NCAA player can show up for the e camp and training camp without being penalized.

[doubleblue]

That's good cister. So it looks like Teams can send their draftees back to the CIS for two years now and have them in the pipeline so to speak. They still may be able to keep a drafted player on their PR until August for extra training and send them back once the CIS schedule starts.

[OV Argo]

Thanks for the info 'Cister. I think i get the new rule now : eligibility starts with your first year of playing (i.e. on the game roster ? - not sure how that explains Coombs & Gill being CFL draftable this year after only playing 3 years for the Bisons) ?

But is eligibility up after 24 years of age, regardless of how many years you played before ?

And CFL teams have lost drafted players to other teams before they played in the CFL (i think?) - so you only retain a drafted players' rights if he goes back to college ball after getting cut in TC (before a certain date?) ???

[ArgoRavi]

And CFL teams have lost drafted players to other teams before they played in the CFL (i think?) - so you only retain a drafted players' rights if he goes back to college ball after getting cut in TC (before a certain date?) ???

I think that you are right, OV, although I have never been completely clear on this.