Another tidbit that bothers me about the media.

[Will]

This isn't reflective of all media members because Matt Scianitti was at camp for the entire time on Sunday and Mike Hogan was there for most of it, but a lot of the media just shows up halfway through the practice to get their interviews done. Wouldn't their analysis benefit from actual observation?

[gilthethrill]

Driving home from work the other day listening to the radio (I don't get much of a selection east of London), so I had PTS with Jeff Blair & his flunkies on for a few minutes. Discussion was about Championships in the city of Toronto...I was infuriated but not surprised that the Argos were not even a part of the discussion. Honestly I don't understand.

[paulwoods13]

There is usually little worth reporting from camp workouts, IMO. All of us love the observations we get from attendees on this forum, but I don't see much news value in the MSM reporting that so-and-so made a nice catch, or whatever. Coaches base their evaluations on all kinds of stuff we (and reporters) aren't watching. If a guy makes spectacular catches day after day, or consistently overpowers blockers during pads-on drills, a note or two would be worth putting in the paper. But otherwise the stuff untrained observers see is not terribly newsworthy, IMO.

[D-Gap-Willie]

Driving home from work the other day listening to the radio (I don't get much of a selection east of London), so I had PTS with Jeff Blair & his flunkies on for a few minutes. Discussion was about Championships in the city of Toronto...I was infuriated but not surprised that the Argos were not even a part of the discussion. Honestly I don't understand.
It must have been a very short discussion, about a few now rather vague old memories.


There is usually little worth reporting from camp workouts, IMO. All of us love the observations we get from attendees on this forum, but I don't see much news value in the MSM reporting that so-and-so made a nice catch, or whatever. Coaches base their evaluations on all kinds of stuff we (and reporters) aren't watching. If a guy makes spectacular catches day after day, or consistently overpowers blockers during pads-on drills, a note or two would be worth putting in the paper. But otherwise the stuff untrained observers see is not terribly newsworthy, IMO.
It is very much worth reporting, since it builds fan interest and some hype. Get over it - the Argos are "newsworthy" in all aspects, if we hope to grow the fan base.

[paulwoods13]

It is very much worth reporting, since it builds fan interest and some hype. Get over it - the Argos are "newsworthy" in all aspects, if we hope to grow the fan base.

Thanks for the instruction, which I won't follow. Journalism is about reporting information that matters. Who catches a few passes on the second day of training camp is generally not in that category. It's nice to know but is not in the need-to-know category under any reasonable definition of news.

[Will]

Would it be common practice for journalists to show up half-way through a Leafs, Raptors or Blue Jays practice?

[1argoholic]

Sorry Paul but you'd be in the minority on here. We fans who LOVE the Double Blue and CFL will take any news.

Although I do watch the NHL I'm very sick of the coverage of every little detail. We may live in Canada but there's more to this country than hockey and crappy Tim's. Most would like you to believe that you're not Canadian if the hockey isn't your number one sport enjoyed while have a swill coffee.

Someone on CFTO last week mentioned how starved TO was for a champion. Pissed me off. Wasn't anyone on sports.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Thanks for the instruction, which I won't follow. Journalism is about reporting information that matters. Who catches a few passes on the second day of training camp is generally not in that category. It's nice to know but is not in the need-to-know category under any reasonable definition of news.

Maybe you should tell that to your collegues on the 24hr news channel. Very little of what they report is actual news.

[ArgoRavi]

I am going to have to disagree with you, Paul. Reporters should be knowledgeable about what they are covering. They don't have to report whether someone caught a pass or two during practice but they should watch the entire practice to provide context for what they are reporting. Showing up halfway through a practice just seems like lazy journalism to me. I doubt that reporters do the same for the Leafs or Raptors.

[gilthethrill]

Reminds me of ArgoGabe22's story about Damian Cox preparing to interview former Argo All-Star Lineman Rob Murphy a few seasons ago.....

[ArgoGabe22]

Hockey reporters usually cover all injuries and any line changes seen at practice. Has anyone who reported the Argos recently ever done so to the same extent as hockey?

I agree that we don't need a play by play but I think if the media were more fond of what they were covering, they could easily say who's looking good out there and where are they lining up. The Argos, I believe have 19 receivers in camp. Some have to be doing better than others.

Most media never actually watch the Argo practices IMO. Either talking to one another or to PR staff, walking around or on their phones. Some just go to the coaching scrum and leave after that without interviewing anyone else.

Someone must have told Cox to do a story on Murphy so he just went at the last minute before practice ended. The usual guys at last year's practices were Matt Scianetti, Frank Zicarelli, and Bob Mitchell from the Star.

[paulwoods13]

There is another, more prosaic reason for the lack of full-time coverage. Reporters for three of the four dailies are governed by collective agreements that stipulate a work day of 7.5 or 8 hours. Overtime is paid after that. Standing around a field for 4.5 hours, then interviewing coaches, then writing the story and in some cases filing video would very easily get one to the workday limit. There is no chance any sports editor would authorize OT for coverage of a routine day in training camp. And with all the cuts in newsrooms in recent years, the Argo reporters often have more than one assignment in a day.

But back to the main point -- we should all expect journalists to give us the information we need to decide how we want to be governed, and to govern ourselves. That is the primary purpose of journalism in a democracy. In a broad sense that can include information on such "frills" as whether or not I should buy tickets to a particular event, support a particular team, etc. But journalism has no obligation to promote a particular endeavour, help build its fan base, etc., and in fact doing so would be counter to the principles of good journalism.

As to vanriderfan's complaint about the "24-hour news channel," I don't know to which one you are referring (there are at least four that I know of in this market) but I will say that relying on TV as the sole or primary source of news coverage is generally not advisable. Coverage doled out in 90-second sound bites is bound to be superficial.

[Double Dare]

I don't care to know who uses Goldbond.

[Rich]

I've noticed more microphones in front of Argo subjects at training camp than there used to be. There used to be 2 or 3, and now i'm seeing 5 or 6 mics in front of Milanovich or whoever.

This is good. Even if reporters are not covering the whole practice, it seems like there are more reporters there.

It's not really about newsworthiness. The sports outlets have so much time to fill, and so little of importance to deliver. Phil Kessel getting a hangnail is not newsworthy in any sense of the word, yet the local sports outlets will be all over the story.

Up against the glut of Leaf coverage, any Argo coverage is good coverage. I even think the labour dispute has been good for the CFL profile in Toronto, there's been much more coverage of the CFL than usual, and i think it helps legitimize the league in the eyes of some casual observers.

[Argonut]

There is another, more prosaic reason for the lack of full-time coverage. Reporters for three of the four dailies are governed by collective agreements that stipulate a work day of 7.5 or 8 hours. Overtime is paid after that. Standing around a field for 4.5 hours, then interviewing coaches, then writing the story and in some cases filing video would very easily get one to the workday limit. There is no chance any sports editor would authorize OT for coverage of a routine day in training camp. And with all the cuts in newsrooms in recent years, the Argo reporters often have more than one assignment in a day.

But back to the main point -- we should all expect journalists to give us the information we need to decide how we want to be governed, and to govern ourselves. That is the primary purpose of journalism in a democracy. In a broad sense that can include information on such "frills" as whether or not I should buy tickets to a particular event, support a particular team, etc. But journalism has no obligation to promote a particular endeavour, help build its fan base, etc., and in fact doing so would be counter to the principles of good journalism.

As to vanriderfan's complaint about the "24-hour news channel," I don't know to which one you are referring (there are at least four that I know of in this market) but I will say that relying on TV as the sole or primary source of news coverage is generally not advisable. Coverage doled out in 90-second sound bites is bound to be superficial.

I'm going to support Paul on this. Paul, you don't happen to work in media do you? You are bang on.
Social Media has become a real challenge for conventional media. More and more people are getting the News and Sports info faster than many television, radio or print media can deliver. Conventinal media takes a hit financially (lack of advertisers) so they cut back. There is less time for what reporters remain to cover and all within their regularly scheduled day.

If a reporter and camera operator were to remain at the training camp for 3-4 hours and another one hour of travel each way to downtown/scarborough or whereever, that's six hours of resources. Add in a meal break - that makes it 7. That only leaves 2 more hours for an assignment editor to schedule. If it's a big story (Argonauts Sing NFL Star) - then they will dedicate those resources to that story but for a general daily update... probably not.

Reporters will come in and get out as fast as possible because they are usually assigned multiple stories.

[paulwoods13]

I'm going to support Paul on this. Paul, you don't happen to work in media do you?

I don't work for a news organization any more, but I spent 31 years at The Canadian Press news agency. I now do consulting work for the National Newspaper Awards. Both of those roles kept/keep me in close touch with the news business. I don't think any of that qualifies me as an "expert," but I think it's fair to say it helps me form an "informed opinion."

[gilthethrill]

I don't work for a news organization any more, but I spent 31 years at The Canadian Press news agency. I now do consulting work for the National Newspaper Awards. Both of those roles kept/keep me in close touch with the news business. I don't think any of that qualifies me as an "expert," but I think it's fair to say it helps me form an "informed opinion."

Well Paul if you are not an expert on this subject, then you are as close as it gets.

[argotom]

Driving home from work the other day listening to the radio (I don't get much of a selection east of London), so I had PTS with Jeff Blair & his flunkies on for a few minutes. Discussion was about Championships in the city of Toronto...I was infuriated but not surprised that the Argos were not even a part of the discussion. Honestly I don't understand.

And this "infuriates" you from Fan 590?
In fact, Team 1050 is not much better as I would describe them as wannabe Fan 590 Lite.
You would think they would not be as bad since owned by TSN and the obvious connection to the league?
Like me, don't listen to 590, and only to 1050 during Argo telecasts.


There is another, more prosaic reason for the lack of full-time coverage. Reporters for three of the four dailies are governed by collective agreements that stipulate a work day of 7.5 or 8 hours. Overtime is paid after that. Standing around a field for 4.5 hours, then interviewing coaches, then writing the story and in some cases filing video would very easily get one to the workday limit. There is no chance any sports editor would authorize OT for coverage of a routine day in training camp. And with all the cuts in newsrooms in recent years, the Argo reporters often have more than one assignment in a day.

But back to the main point -- we should all expect journalists to give us the information we need to decide how we want to be governed, and to govern ourselves. That is the primary purpose of journalism in a democracy. In a broad sense that can include information on such "frills" as whether or not I should buy tickets to a particular event, support a particular team, etc. But journalism has no obligation to promote a particular endeavour, help build its fan base, etc., and in fact doing so would be counter to the principles of good journalism.

As to vanriderfan's complaint about the "24-hour news channel," I don't know to which one you are referring (there are at least four that I know of in this market) but I will say that relying on TV as the sole or primary source of news coverage is generally not advisable. Coverage doled out in 90-second sound bites is bound to be superficial.


Not sure I buy your theory.
Reporters and specifically the various News and Sports directors, have an obvious bias and especially when their bread is buttered by the conglomerate owner who dictates who to follow.
Especially since here in the city Rogers has a monopoly with radio, TV and print.
As for sports on the 24 hour stations, look a little closer next time and see how the Crap Jays, TFC, Raptors and the Leafs are covered over the top and especially the main players before and after their respective games.
The cheer-leading is nauseating.

[paulwoods13]

Not sure I buy your theory.
Reporters and specifically the various News and Sports directors, have an obvious bias and especially when their bread is buttered by the conglomerate owner who dictates who to follow.
Especially since here in the city Rogers has a monopoly with radio, TV and print.
As for sports on the 24 hour stations, look a little closer next time and see how the Crap Jays, TFC, Raptors and the Leafs are covered over the top and especially the main players before and after their respective games.
The cheer-leading is nauseating.

With all due respect, Tom, the existence of collective agreements and the chill on non-essential overtime is a fact of life, not a theory. Even the Sun, which has the best and biggest sports section in Canada (by far) does not allow its reporters to work overtime unless it is essential, such as covering a playoff game that goes into overtime. They definitely would not allow their Argo reporter to put in more than the allotted hours on a routine assignment like training camp. And often he will have more than one assignment to complete in a shift. I'd love it if reporters covered every minute of camp and practice but there is virtually no demand from readers or advertisers for that the way there is in, say, Buffalo for wall-to-wall Bills coverage. Wish it were different but realities get in the way of the ideal.

[Wobbler]

I would have assumed that all of Toronto's major papers were unionized. Which is the exception, Paul? The Post?

[rdavies]

As a former TV newsboy, I'd like to throw in my two cents. The advent of social media and 24 hr news channels has changed the way "news" is covered or maybe a better word would be, perceived. There's just not enough real news to fill 24 hours of programming, which is why you see so much of the vile infotainment, and celebrity gossip masquerading as news.

Everybody here, pro and con has made good points. I used to get in trouble because I didn't buy into the then journalism ethic, especially with the CBC crowd. But she's a whole different ball game today, I don't think I could stand it (what poses as news these days)

I love to listen to the interviews at the Archive of American Television with the former reporters, news writers and producers. My era bridged the gap between them and what we have today but if I had my druthers I'd have preferred to be part of their era.

It's truly sad how superficial and dumbed down much (not all) of society has become. Oh yeah, football, covering all day of training camp...wouldn't happen.

[paulwoods13]

I would have assumed that all of Toronto's major papers were unionized. Which is the exception, Paul? The Post?

That is correct.

[OV Argo]

As a former TV newsboy, I'd like to throw in my two cents. The advent of social media and 24 hr news channels has changed the way "news" is covered or maybe a better word would be, perceived. There's just not enough real news to fill 24 hours of programming, which is why you see so much of the vile infotainment, and celebrity gossip masquerading as news.

Everybody here, pro and con has made good points. I used to get in trouble because I didn't buy into the then journalism ethic, especially with the CBC crowd. But she's a whole different ball game today, I don't think I could stand it (what poses as news these days)

I love to listen to the interviews at the Archive of American Television with the former reporters, news writers and producers. My era bridged the gap between them and what we have today but if I had my druthers I'd have preferred to be part of their era.

It's truly sad how superficial and dumbed down much (not all) of society has become. Oh yeah, football, covering all day of training camp...wouldn't happen.


I don't see why TSN - as the big CFL broadcaster - could not have a couple of crews revolving around CFL TCs with at least an hour (or more) show - EVERY DAY - of CFL TC time - to give in depth reporting on the CFL to help fans get ready for the season?

The CFL has , for years, if not decades, suffered from lack of quality reporting, disrespect & negative slant reporting or else has been downright ignored by much of the Canadian sports media (who love to fawn all over anything NHL or hockey) - just IMO. Time for some change ? - ooops, too late for this year; maybe next year?

[D-Gap-Willie]

Thanks for the instruction, which I won't follow. Journalism is about reporting information that matters. Who catches a few passes on the second day of training camp is generally not in that category. It's nice to know but is not in the need-to-know category under any reasonable definition of news.

I, by no means, was trying to give you "instruction". If your interpretation of my comments caused you some upset, I do apologize. ....and thank you for the brief introductory lesson to Journalism 101. I know that you have decades of experience in this field, and I respect both your experience and your ethics of journalism. However, my comment was not about journalism per se nor about "any reasonable definition of news"; I was speaking purely of the exposure or lack of exposure of the Argos in TO newspapers, whether in quality news (need-to-know) or pure 'fluff'. Exposure creates interest whether it is "information that matters" or not.

[paulwoods13]

I was speaking purely of the exposure or lack of exposure of the Argos in TO newspapers, whether in quality news (need-to-know) or pure 'fluff'. Exposure creates interest whether it is "information that matters" or not.

I agree that exposure creates interest. But the media are under no obligation to provide exposure to the to the Argos or any other commercial venture.

[rdavies]

But the media are under no obligation to provide exposure to the to the Argos or any other commercial venture.That was probably one of the few journalistic tenets I followed. Is this a commercial? If it remotely resembles that, we don't cover it.

Here's how low things have got in the news biz. I'm watching regional network coverage of the tragedy in Moncton. I'm used to inexperienced kids reading the news now, but I usually hope that the news editor has enough brains to guide them.

Well today on one newscast (I'm reluctant to call it that) these dopey kids didn't have enough brains or respect to dress appropriately the morning after the tragedy. The male was wearing an open necked shirt under his jacket (no tie) and the woman had on a wild floral print.

The last time I saw (heard) something so stupid was when I just started in Thunder Bay and there was a promo for the movie the Seven Percent Solution where Sherlock Holmes meets Dr Sigmund Frood (sic) (rhymes with food) To think how many people heard that promo before it aired and didn't know how to pronounce Freud just made me shake my head. And it's gotten worse.

[Argocister]

It must have been a very short discussion, about a few now rather vague old memories.


It is very much worth reporting, since it builds fan interest and some hype. Get over it - the Argos are "newsworthy" in all aspects, if we hope to grow the fan base.

Can we add media base too ?

[argotom]

I don't see why TSN - as the big CFL broadcaster - could not have a couple of crews revolving around CFL TCs with at least an hour (or more) show - EVERY DAY - of CFL TC time - to give in depth reporting on the CFL to help fans get ready for the season?

The CFL has , for years, if not decades, suffered from lack of quality reporting, disrespect & negative slant reporting or else has been downright ignored by much of the Canadian sports media (who love to fawn all over anything NHL or hockey) - just IMO. Time for some change ? - ooops, too late for this year; maybe next year?


Couldn't agree more.
I have also been surprised with the lack of stories from the various camps.
All we get is the voice over from the in studio host and some interviews no doubt obtained by the local TV station.
Instead of the traditional 2-3 minutes worth, most are running under a minute.
How sad.
Of course I forgot, hockey, hockey and more hockey is a must!

[argos1873]

I wonder if the Stanley Cup playoffs ended in early May, when it should since the season is way too long, if CFL training camp would get more media attention.

[AngeloV]

The more I think about it, the more I'm pissed in the Argos themselves. Let's face it, nobody buys papers anymore, most of it is read on line. The Argos own website is useless in terms of updating the progress of players in camp. Let's be honest, during training camp, the website should have at least 5 stories a day on their own website. We usually get one, and it rarely talks about competition at any positions. It's always the same stuff..Ricky Ray was on target in practice today..blah blah blah. Captain Obvious can write these types of stories. Why should anyone promote them, if they are not willing to promote themselves?

[zontar]

Driving home from work the other day listening to the radio (I don't get much of a selection east of London), so I had PTS with Jeff Blair & his flunkies on for a few minutes. Discussion was about Championships in the city of Toronto...I was infuriated but not surprised that the Argos were not even a part of the discussion. Honestly I don't understand.

You understand. Anti-TSN via the CFL is Rogers corporate policy. Plain and simple.

[paulwoods13]

The more I think about it, the more I'm pissed in the Argos themselves. Let's face it, nobody buys papers anymore, most of it is read on line. The Argos own website is useless in terms of updating the progress of players in camp. Let's be honest, during training camp, the website should have at least 5 stories a day on their own website. We usually get one, and it rarely talks about competition at any positions. It's always the same stuff..Ricky Ray was on target in practice today..blah blah blah. Captain Obvious can write these types of stories. Why should anyone promote them, if they are not willing to promote themselves?

This is a good point. Teams in the NFL and other major sports hire journalists to write in-depth about the team and give them the freedom to do it largely unfettered. A good reporter for the team website could easily file multiple stories a day during camp, and one or two a day during the season.

[ArgoRavi]

This is a good point. Teams in the NFL and other major sports hire journalists to write in-depth about the team and give them the freedom to do it largely unfettered. A good reporter for the team website could easily file multiple stories a day during camp, and one or two a day during the season.

Is Don Landry not employed by the Argos? Perhaps they don't pay him for any more than one column a week though.

[gilthethrill]

Is Don Landry not employed by the Argos? Perhaps they don't pay him for any more than one column a week though.

I believe Don is a freelance journalist...he is employed by the Argos an the stadium PA man for sure.

[paulwoods13]

Don works in radio in London. He does some writing for argos and cfl.ca, but is not available to do the type of daily reporting that AV suggested is needed.

[ArgoRavi]

Don works in radio in London. He does some writing for argos and cfl.ca, but is not available to do the type of daily reporting that AV suggested is needed.

I guess that the master promoter Braley doesn't want to spend the money on someone who will do that type of reporting.

[D-Gap-Willie]

I guess that the master promoter Braley doesn't want to spend the money on someone who will do that type of reporting.
It's easy to knock Braley, but he is not the problem. The complete lack of an actual involved owner is the problem. Braley is really only the banker for the Argos.
Perhaps the money is not there, or perhaps the money that is available is poorly allocated, or perhaps their in-house resources are not adequate to the task. We should ask Chris Rudge about these things, or does he still work for the Argos ?

[Argocister]

......... We should ask Chris Rudge about these things, or does he still work for the Argos ?

I believe he still does , as he was on TSN 1050 on sat afternoon. ...... I have always wondered if he even gets paid ....much.

[gilthethrill]

I believe he still does , as he was on TSN 1050 on sat afternoon. ...... I have always wondered if he even gets paid ....much.

Should he not have attended Fan Day?

[paulwoods13]

I guess that the master promoter Braley doesn't want to spend the money on someone who will do that type of reporting.

Does any team in the CFL do what I suggested, though? I haven't looked at each team's website lately but I strongly suspect most news content on most sites is generated by arrangements with legitimate sources such as Canadian Press, PR staff or volunteers such as the Argo Admirals. The paid-but-otherwise-independent reporting staff that would be ideal, IMO, works in the NFL's financial atmosphere but I don't know how doable it is in the CFL.

[ArgoGabe22]

Should he not have attended Fan Day?

In BC, Braley and Jaime Taras greeted each fan as they entered. They had their fan day inside BC Place.

[T-Bone]

Should he not have attended Fan Day?
Rudge was at Fan Day.

[gilthethrill]

Rudge was at Fan Day.

He was? I did not see him.

[T-Bone]

He was? I did not see him.
He wasn't wearing a suit like he normally does. He was wearing an Argo polo shirt on the sideline while I was there before 2:00pm.

[rdavies]

The latest low blow from Rogers or (Sportsnet) about the CFL labour problems. I posted this below, see how long it lasts.

CFL money demands add up to little (http://www.sportsnet.ca/blogs/the-breakdown/cfl-money-demands-add-up-to-little/)

"Why don't you guys at Rogers (Sportsnet... same difference) grow some bigger balls and stop trying to kill a Canadian institution. Absolutely no need of this (pardon the expression) low blow."

I would ask people here to voice your displeasure with yet another in the litany of Rogers cheap shots.

[bluto]

didn't see your reply. mine will likely be gone soon too.

[rdavies]

My verbatim comment above just got deleted along with (another comment) my objection to Rogers under federal protection from competition, trying to kill a Canadian company by bringing in an American competitor.

Please rip these guys a new one for me. Bluto, thanks for trying, at least we know what we're up against.

CFL money demands add up to little (http://www.sportsnet.ca/blogs/the-breakdown/cfl-money-demands-add-up-to-little/)

Comment is back now, how very strange. I am just so close to starting a western boycott campaign against these creeps, I think I know the right buttons to push to get this noticed.

[gilthethrill]

Much to my surprise my comment The CFL is a great league...TSN rules!...did not get deleted....


He wasn't wearing a suit like he normally does. He was wearing an Argo polo shirt on the sideline while I was there before 2:00pm.

I would not have worn a suit in that heat either!

[rdavies]

CFL money demands add up to little (http://www.sportsnet.ca/blogs/the-breakdown/cfl-money-demands-add-up-to-little/)Sportsnet's cheap shot may have hit a nerve, there's some pretty interesting comments there, and plenty of venom. Hope they're reading.

[Rids]

I wonder if the Stanley Cup playoffs ended in early May, when it should since the season is way too long, if CFL training camp would get more media attention.

I doubt it. In August when the NHL teams start skating around they generally bump the CFL from the opening story on SportsCentre.

Down here on SportsCenter it takes awarding the Stanley Cup on a weeknight to bump to the opening story...but only if there are no NCAA violations to be handed out.