Done Deal....Eiben to the Ticats

[Skinny G]

@TSNDaveNaylor (http://twitter.com/TSNDaveNaylor): Kevin Eiben changes Twitter picture to himself in front of Ticat logo. Tweets announcement coming tomorrow. Sounds like a trip down the QEW.

http://twitter.com/#!/keiben

Not sure how this makes sense....but Eiben is gone too. Unless Hamilton has promised him they will play a 3-4 Defense.. he may be a backup there also, so kinda confusing. Also, how are the Ticats now good to get Fantuz, Eiben, Greg Peach, and also get Robertson and Murph??? Along with Burriss, Mallet and Stala....

Eiben is another guy that should've finished up in Double Blue IMO.

[AngeloV]

Wow..this is going to be a great season. I'm already starting to get back the hatred for the Ti-Cats that sadly has been missing from me for several years now.

So, do we give Eiben the same treatment that Hamilton gives O-Shea? I say yes. I'll even start it: BBBBBBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! You Suck Eiben!!

:D

[Will]

Another unfortunate departure from the team. I thank #35 for the great service he's given the team over the years he played with us.

[ArgoRavi]

Eiben leaving for Hamilton after 11 years as an Argo is like Ben Zambiasi suiting up for the Argos after a decade in Hamilton. Just like nobody remembers the latter, hopefully nobody will remember the former in a few years.

[Area 51]

I don't see how this makes sense for Eiben. At least in Toronto he would have had a chance at winning a starting LB spot - - there's no way he can beat out Johnson, Knowlton or Williams in Hamilton. Hamilton doesn't have the personnel up front to go with a 3/4 look so I don't see that change happening, but even so Baggs would likely become the 4th LB and rush off the edge ahead of Eiben.

THe only thing I can come up with is that Barker decided not to offer a deal to Eiben and forced his hand to either retire or head to Hamilton if he wanted to stay close to home.

[OV Argo]

Eiben leaving for Hamilton after 11 years as an Argo is like Ben Zambiasi suiting up for the Argos after a decade in Hamilton. Just like nobody remembers the latter, hopefully nobody will remember the former in a few years.

??? - you're hoping Argo fans don't remember the great seasons Eiben had as a key on the Argos' D? or that Ticats fans don't have good memories of the great career of Zambiasi? Or are you saying Argo fans shouldn't have much recall of Zambiasi playing for the Argos at the end of his career (nobody ???)? Or that you're wishing Eiben bad luck with the Ticats so their fans won't appreciate what he might bring to their team?


Another unfortunate departure from the team. I thank #35 for the great service he's given the team over the years he played with us.

Yep - Parker, Shell and Eiben all gone now; rebuilding the D with new guys cause the current regime didn't have much respect for these players or i guess they wern't either an $M$ fit or a fit in the new bold fast and agressive D the Argos will unleash?

We shall see; looking forward to seeing the new Argo D feature replacements for these guys who will put up 100 tackle seasons or lead the league in D categories or stats - like INTs for TDs and fumble recoveries. Jordan Younger and Foley still around as a couple of very proven D players with a lot of CFL experience; hopefully that is enough leadership and vet experience; and I'm sure some will be able to rationalize whatever moves the team makes = get with the program / pull together.

[Will]

??? - you're hoping Argo fans don't remember the great seasons Eiben had as a key on the Argos' D? or that Ticats fans don't have good memories of the great career of Zambiasi? Or are you saying Argo fans shouldn't have much recall of Zambiasi playing for the Argos at the end of his career (nobody ???)? Or that you're wishing Eiben bad luck with the Ticats so their fans won't appreciate what he might bring to their team?

I believe Ravi is trying to say two things:

(i) that he hopes Eiben's will be remembered for his time as an Argo; and
(ii) he hopes that Eiben doesn't come back to bite us in the behind

I don't think there's any ill-will intended, rather he has respect for Eiben's abilities.

[ArgoRavi]

I believe Ravi is trying to say two things:

(i) that he hopes Eiben's will be remembered for his time as an Argo; and
(ii) he hopes that Eiben doesn't come back to bite us in the behind

I don't think there's any ill-will intended, rather he has respect for Eiben's abilities.

That is exactly what I was trying to say, Will.

[Will]

Yep - Parker, Shell and Eiben all gone now; rebuilding the D with new guys cause the current regime didn't have much respect for these players or i guess they wern't either an $M$ fit or a fit in the new bold fast and agressive D the Argos will unleash?

We shall see; looking forward to seeing the new Argo D feature replacements for these guys who will put up 100 tackle seasons or lead the league in D categories or stats - like INTs for TDs and fumble recoveries. Jordan Younger and Foley still around as a couple of very proven D players with a lot of CFL experience; hopefully that is enough leadership and vet experience; and I'm sure some will be able to rationalize whatever moves the team makes = get with the program / pull together.

It's probably a little bit of both (SMS & fitting in) and I believe Barker already implied that Shell didn't fit into the team's future plans when he commented on his release. There has been speculation that Barker wasn't able to offer Parker a competitive offer and thus didn't waste his time to give Byron an insulting offer. I am interested to see what the Argos do with the defense, in particular:

(i) What positions do Younger and Pile play? It is speculated that Younger will move to safety and that Pile will move back to LB.
(ii) Does Matt Black get his time in the sun?
(iii) Who replaces Eiben? I guess Anthony Cannon.

The defensive line has been pretty quiet so far. Is it fair to assume that Huntley, Flemons and Wroten have made it to training camp?

[ArgoRavi]

Yep - Parker, Shell and Eiben all gone now; rebuilding the D with new guys cause the current regime didn't have much respect for these players or i guess they wern't either an $M$ fit or a fit in the new bold fast and agressive D the Argos will unleash?

We shall see; looking forward to seeing the new Argo D feature replacements for these guys who will put up 100 tackle seasons or lead the league in D categories or stats - like INTs for TDs and fumble recoveries. Jordan Younger and Foley still around as a couple of very proven D players with a lot of CFL experience; hopefully that is enough leadership and vet experience; and I'm sure some will be able to rationalize whatever moves the team makes = get with the program / pull together.

Out of curiosity, OV, would you have made any personnel moves on defence after last season? Would you have just gone status quo and hoped for the best?

[OV Argo]

OK - gotcha now.

I doubt Eiben is going to be a starter on that good Ticat LB corps; though he could play a good role as a capable vet back-up or situational D player; and if injury strikes the Ticat LBs - they would have IMO a top notch guy who could step-in right away.

The Argos do not have anything close to that Ticat LB group though IMO; but i guess they have plenty of faith in whoever they will deploy to be easy upgrades over Eiben; again - we shall see.


Out of curiosity, OV, would you have made any personnel moves on defence after last season? Would you have just gone status quo and hoped for the best?

Nope - not a big fan of status quo for the sake of it; but put me down as a big fan of proven, vet players (unless they are obviously struggling and showing signs of fading fast - didn't see one iota of that from anything of Eiben, Parker or Shell - but maybe i was missing something).

I would have brought in plenty of competition for TC - on the D and everywhere else - and also hoped some of the young roster guys (eg. Cannon, Matt or Tristan Black, Greg Alexandre) claim playing time; I'm not ready to give-up on any of Huntley, Wroten or Flemons either despite a disappointing season for that group last year - would you like to see one or all 3 of those guys cut too? - just for the sake of making some changes and with basically zero as proven replacements at this point? Nice to have some faith in the team's braintrust to be able to find good replacements though - let's see all these great new signings though BEFORE you just get rid of proven players - and not just "hope for the best" - as you as the eternal Argo optimist always seem to do Ravi.

Bottom line - IMO - i belive the Argo D will be very hard pressed to come up with better replacements for all of Eiben, Shell and Parker; necessary $M$ moves i can sort of buy though; like to know what kind of bucks the likes of Jackson and Trafalis commanded as back-up QBs - hopefully wayyyyyyyyy less than average CFL back-up QBs; and also like to know what the likes of Maurice Mann is pulling down salary wise as a vet CFL player - if a guy like that - often very lacking when given CFL playing time (easily led the league in dropped passes when starting for the Esks = very iffy / questionable hands receiver) is handed a staring job in the receiver corps when Eiben, Shell and Parker get cut - there is something wrong with that picture IMO.

[1argoholic]

I believe that you need to keep some of your leaders rather than running them out of town. From what I understand the Argos didn't give a crap if these players left.
If I'm Eiben I'd have to retire. Personally I'm a very loyal type and after 11 years hating Hamilton I couldn't suit up for that team. Where I didn't fit into TO's plans or not I couldn't go to Hambone. This happens to be the SH!TTY part of being a fan. No more Pinball types playing their whole careers with one team.

[ArgoRavi]

I believe that you need to keep some of your leaders rather than running them out of town. From what I understand the Argos didn't give a crap if these players left.
If I'm Eiben I'd have to retire. Personally I'm a very loyal type and after 11 years hating Hamilton I couldn't suit up for that team. Where I didn't fit into TO's plans or not I couldn't go to Hambone. This happens to be the SH!TTY part of being a fan. No more Pinball types playing their whole careers with one team.

I seem to recall you being very upset over on 13thman in 2008 when the Argos lost game after game, in large part, IMO because they were too loyal to their veterans. In hindsight, they should have made a fair number of changes after falling short in '07 and didn't and it came back to bite them in their behinds in '08.

I have to ask the other posters on here whether you really believe that Parker had a good season last year. I like Byron but I seem to recall that he even admitted that his play was subpar last season. And, yes, I know that he had those two INT returns for TDs late in the year but we have to look at his season in total. I think that many of the problems on defence stemmed from a poor pass rush and injuries at linebacker but I can't pretend that the secondary had a good season. I thought that Evan McCollough played well but that is about it. Getting back to Parker, I do believe that he was hampered by injury last season but Jim Barker has to ask the question as to whether this is a sign that Parker may be declining, even just a little, just as he would have to ask that question of a once durable 11 year veteran linebacker who sustained a season-ending injury.

I know that the offence struggled last season which didn't help the defence but I also don't think that we can absolve a defence of blame which gave up far too many yards and points last season. I also don't believe that we can only blame the defence's poor performance from being on the field too long as I saw them give up yards and points from the opening whistle of many games last year before they could even get tired.

It isn't like the team has said goodbye to all of its defensive vets either. Jordan Younger, Willie Pile and Jason Pottinger have all been re-signed while they have said goodbye to Parker, Eiben and Shell. Time will tell whether they retained the wrong vets or whether they should have brought this defence back largely intact and hoped for the best but I personally have no problem with them bidding a few guys adieu after a terrible season on the defensive side of the ball last year.

[R.J]

I had a feeling this was the last season we would see Eiben in a Argo uni, salary probably played the biggest part in his departure, but I wish him the best of luck and thank him for everything he did here in Hogtown. Even though I believe he'll be primarily used as a back-up and situational player, I think he adds to the TiCats in a lot of ways, especially on special teams.

[Area 51]

I have to ask the other posters on here whether you really believe that Parker had a good season last year. I like Byron but I seem to recall that he even admitted that his play was subpar last season. And, yes, I know that he had those two INT returns for TDs late in the year but we have to look at his season in total. I think that many of the problems on defence stemmed from a poor pass rush and injuries at linebacker but I can't pretend that the secondary had a good season.



Well, since you asked...

Parker is a great politician. Made a few posts here and got the hero's treatment from many awe-struck fans who were amazed a player would interact with them in a message forum. Made a few speeches about fallen teammates and dealing with adversity to further help his image. Problem was, he was a liability on defence. Five interceptions and twice with a pick six! But don't forget to add in the missed tackles and the number of times he was beaten in coverage.

Last year I said the majority of Argo LBs and secondary didn't have the speed or athletic ability to play man coverage. My take hasn't changed. Now Parker and Shell are off the BC to hide in Stubler's weak zone defence. Watch what happens. The Lions are going to give up a ton of yardage and struggle to get pressure from their front four this year.

The success of the pass rush is dependent on the coverage scheme. Give up a 10yd cushion to receivers like Toronto did last year and the front four have no chance at generating pressure. The opposing QB is going to fire quick hitters underneath the soft coverage all day. Bring the coverage up to play bump and run and that takes away the short passes and gives the pass rush an extra second to get to the QB.

This is Football 101. I can't figure out why it's such a difficult concept to grasp.

[argofandave]

Mike Hogan interviewed Kevin Eiben today on TSN Radio. Kevin said that the Argos offered him a contract but that the "Ticats came after him hard." He also said that he was a little upset coming out of last year's training camp and not starting since he thought that he had won the job. He also considered signing with BC since his family is from there. He owns 2 SST gyms in Oakville and Milton and that Hamilton is a little closer to where he lives in Oakville.

[Ron]

OK - gotcha now.

I doubt Eiben is going to be a starter on that good Ticat LB corps; though he could play a good role as a capable vet back-up or situational D player; and if injury strikes the Ticat LBs - they would have IMO a top notch guy who could step-in right away.

The Argos do not have anything close to that Ticat LB group though IMO; but i guess they have plenty of faith in whoever they will deploy to be easy upgrades over Eiben; again - we shall see.

Eiben doesn't have to be better than a guy top get the starters job. It all depends how the ratio numbers fall.

Anyways. No biggie that Eiben is gone ... he was approaching late career O'Shea pylon status anyway. Parker couldn't play zone so no loss there.

[Area 51]

Parker couldn't play zone so no loss there.



I'm guessing you meant to say he couldn't play man? Zone was ideal for Parker - - allowed him to float around and field errant overthrows.

[OV Argo]

Eiben doesn't have to be better than a guy top get the starters job. It all depends how the ratio numbers fall.

Anyways. No biggie that Eiben is gone ... he was approaching late career O'Shea pylon status anyway. Parker couldn't play zone so no loss there.


So, Eiben - with CFL D playmaking / tackle leading seasons in the CFL - didn't have to be better than other guys available to the Argos then, or now, cause he was just there because of the ratio ??? - are you for real? You`d rather see over-rated mediocres like Kuale in the line-upÉ Yeah - and Parker couldn't play zone or man either - to some football MENSA types here ??? Laughable stuff - keep it up with the good yucks here.

[paulwoods13]

Parker did not have a good year last season. He was beaten far too many times when he was in one-on-one coverage. He is (or at least was) a great player in certain situations but he was never the kind of shutdown corner some remember. He was a fantastic teammate and gave us all many great memories, but he is replaceable.

Shell was sub-par last season, tackle stats notwithstanding. He, too, looked lost at times in the secondary, and many of his tackles were a result of our DTs and LBs being unable to stop or slow up running plays. Again, he is replaceable.

Eiben IMO could have and would have continued to be a very strong player last season had he not been sat down and then injured early in the season. I think he was better than Cannon at the start of last season. But at least Cannon got a lot of playing time so he should be able to step up this year.

I disagree that Eiben has much chance of starting in Hamilton, unless they go to a 3-4 defence. They like their three import LBs way too much to sit one for him -- if they run intio ratio issues they will look elsewhere first, IMO.

[Pinner31]

As I recall in the second episode of the Argo's documentary, Parker was hurt(do we not remember when Matt Dunigan said that he was nursing a hurt knee after he got the interception vs Winnipeg at home). Word around the team was he had a torn meniscus and had his knee drained a few times during the season. For a guy to be hurt all season and still have a career high in tackles along with 5 interceptions, from what I can see were all in man to man coverage, is pretty good to me. Its funny to hear you guys say that he was "beaten far too may times when he was in one-on-one coverage." When was he beaten? Granted, he got beaten for TD's vs Montreal and Edmonton(should we really count the one vs Calgary when he got pushed in the back) on slant patterns. How about when he saved a TD against the Tigerkittens, when McCulough had be beaten in man-to-man, would you have Parker stay on his man and give up a TD or help out his teammate? Lets take a closer look at his stats TD stats, since there are so many statisticians here......He's scored 12 total TD's, we all know the 9 he has on defense, 2 on offence and one on special teams.....he's only given up 6 TD's in his whole career. Most of us on here can only speculate on what's going on during the course of a game because not many or any of us have played at a high level.

Eiben is a great player and I would've like to seen him stay in the Double Blue. For Christ sake, we're trying to win a Grey Cup here. I'm not saying that it's impossible to win with a bunch of fresh faces, but you still have to have some veteran leadership. I'm so happy that they signed our Captain back and we still have Younger, but to not have Eiben here is ridiculous. He would help our ration and he still has a lot of game left. To play weak side linebacker, you don't have to be fast....He's a smart linebacker and Canadian who is a SURE tackler. Had he not been injured or sat down by Barker, he still could've had a great year. He can get the job done and I just hope that not signing him doesn't cost us in the near future. It's gonna be sad not to see the reliable 35 in Double Blue.

One more thing....Injuries are something that just happen. It doesn't have anything to do with age. There are lots of younger players that sustain injuries because they don't know how to take care of their bodies. IMO, using the injury excuse is just an easy way to push reliable veterans out the door.

I'm very excited for TC to get here so we can see what this new "aggressive" style of play that everyone is so happy about is gonna look like. Remember, this exact aggressive style is the same style that gave up the MOST number of TD's in the CFL last season.

Cheers

[AngeloV]

As I recall in the second episode of the Argo's documentary, Parker was hurt(do we not remember when Matt Dunigan said that he was nursing a hurt knee after he got the interception vs Winnipeg at home). Word around the team was he had a torn meniscus and had his knee drained a few times during the season. For a guy to be hurt all season and still have a career high in tackles along with 5 interceptions, from what I can see were all in man to man coverage, is pretty good to me. Its funny to hear you guys say that he was "beaten far too may times when he was in one-on-one coverage." When was he beaten? Granted, he got beaten for TD's vs Montreal and Edmonton(should we really count the one vs Calgary when he got pushed in the back) on slant patterns. How about when he saved a TD against the Tigerkittens, when McCulough had be beaten in man-to-man, would you have Parker stay on his man and give up a TD or help out his teammate? Lets take a closer look at his stats TD stats, since there are so many statisticians here......He's scored 12 total TD's, we all know the 9 he has on defense, 2 on offence and one on special teams.....he's only given up 6 TD's in his whole career. Most of us on here can only speculate on what's going on during the course of a game because not many or any of us have played at a high level.

Eiben is a great player and I would've like to seen him stay in the Double Blue. For Christ sake, we're trying to win a Grey Cup here. I'm not saying that it's impossible to win with a bunch of fresh faces, but you still have to have some veteran leadership. I'm so happy that they signed our Captain back and we still have Younger, but to not have Eiben here is ridiculous. He would help our ration and he still has a lot of game left. To play weak side linebacker, you don't have to be fast....He's a smart linebacker and Canadian who is a SURE tackler. Had he not been injured or sat down by Barker, he still could've had a great year. He can get the job done and I just hope that not signing him doesn't cost us in the near future. It's gonna be sad not to see the reliable 35 in Double Blue.

One more thing....Injuries are something that just happen. It doesn't have anything to do with age. There are lots of younger players that sustain injuries because they don't know how to take care of their bodies. IMO, using the injury excuse is just an easy way to push reliable veterans out the door.

I'm very excited for TC to get here so we can see what this new "aggressive" style of play that everyone is so happy about is gonna look like. Remember, this exact aggressive style is the same style that gave up the MOST number of TD's in the CFL last season.

Cheers

Very good post.

[paulwoods13]

. . . since there are so many statisticians here......he's only given up 6 TD's in his whole career.

What is the source of this statistic? As far as I know neither the league nor individual teams publish such stats, partly because it is seldom as simple as one player beat one other player. There are times when a receiver is clearly isolated one-on-one against a DB and clearly wins the one-on-one battle for the ball, but they don't happen all that often in today's zone-oriented defences. Still, I find it had to believe that there is a credible statistic showing that a guy who has played corner for seven years in a pass-oriented league has been beaten just six times for TDs, even if most of his PT was on the wide side, where QBs seldom throw.

[Pinner31]

Well, since you asked...

Parker is a great politician. Made a few posts here and got the hero's treatment from many awe-struck fans who were amazed a player would interact with them in a message forum. Made a few speeches about fallen teammates and dealing with adversity to further help his image. Problem was, he was a liability on defence. Five interceptions and twice with a pick six! But don't forget to add in the missed tackles and the number of times he was beaten in coverage.

Last year I said the majority of Argo LBs and secondary didn't have the speed or athletic ability to play man coverage. My take hasn't changed. Now Parker and Shell are off the BC to hide in Stubler's weak zone defence. Watch what happens. The Lions are going to give up a ton of yardage and struggle to get pressure from their front four this year.

The success of the pass rush is dependent on the coverage scheme. Give up a 10yd cushion to receivers like Toronto did last year and the front four have no chance at generating pressure. The opposing QB is going to fire quick hitters underneath the soft coverage all day. Bring the coverage up to play bump and run and that takes away the short passes and gives the pass rush an extra second to get to the QB.

This is Football 101. I can't figure out why it's such a difficult concept to grasp.

IMO, looks like someone has been going to coaching conventions/clinics. You definitely hit the 10 but forgot the other 1. The coverage scheme is also dependent on the rush, the two work together both ways. The fact is bump and run on a CFL field not NFL field will cause you to give up a lot of TD's. Thats another part of Football 101 that you seemed to have missed at your coaching clinic. Its ok to work in a mixture of it, but any steady dose of it will cause you to lose, unless you're putting up a lot of points. Remember when Hamilton put up 55pts against your beloved bump and run? As for Parker and Shell playing in Stubler's "weak zone defence".....If I'm not mistaken, I believe Edmonton had one of the BEST defences in the CFL last year....I know you have the stats, so go take a look.


What is the source of this statistic? As far as I know neither the league nor individual teams publish such stats, partly because it is seldom as simple as one player beat one other player. There are times when a receiver is clearly isolated one-on-one against a DB and clearly wins the one-on-one battle for the ball, but they don't happen all that often in today's zone-oriented defences. Still, I find it had to believe that there is a credible statistic showing that a guy who has played corner for seven years in a pass-oriented league has been beaten just six times for TDs, even if most of his PT was on the wide side, where QBs seldom throw.

During my time covering sports, almost every DB knows when they've been scored on. They know the names of the players that even scored on them. It's embedded in their heads. Next time you have the opportunity to ask a DB, or even your kids....they know when they been beaten.

[zontar]

Not sure how he'll be used but will slide into the role held by Barrenechea and Mariuz. Every team neds a solid, salt of the earth type CDN.

[Area 51]

For a guy to be hurt all season and still have a career high in tackles along with 5 interceptions, from what I can see were all in man to man coverage, is pretty good to me. Its funny to hear you guys say that he was "beaten far too may times when he was in one-on-one coverage." When was he beaten? Granted, he got beaten for TD's vs Montreal and Edmonton(should we really count the one vs Calgary when he got pushed in the back) on slant patterns......he's only given up 6 TD's in his whole career.



So you're conceeding Parker was burned for TDs against Montreal and Edmonton...don't forget the one when he got out jumped by Forzani in the endzone. Or was that blamed on a "push" in the back? You might want to check the film on that one again - - no idea where the "push" happened, I didn't see anything and neither did the ref that was standing 5yds away with clear view.

So that's three TDs Parker "gave up" last season alone. Are you trying to sell the idea that he's only "given up" three other TDs over his entire career? It's laughable to think you'd actually believe something like that. Is there anything documented that would support your claim? Or did Parker just tell you he's only been beat for TDs six times in his career?

Then again, I probably shouldn't question your knowledge since you've allegedly spent some time "covering sports". Look at the fonts of wisdom that "cover sports" and the CFL....Perry Lefko....Steve Simmons.....Marty York. Sounds like you're right up there with those characters.

[Mulder]

So you're conceeding Parker was burned for TDs against Montreal and Edmonton...don't forget the one when he got out jumped by Forzani in the endzone. Or was that blamed on a "push" in the back? You might want to check the film on that one again - - no idea where the "push" happened, I didn't see anything and neither did the ref that was standing 5yds away with clear view.

So that's three TDs Parker "gave up" last season alone. Are you trying to sell the idea that he's only "given up" three other TDs over his entire career? It's laughable to think you'd actually believe something like that. Is there anything documented that would support your claim? Or did Parker just tell you he's only been beat for TDs six times in his career?

Then again, I probably shouldn't question your knowledge since you've allegedly spent some time "covering sports". Look at the fonts of wisdom that "cover sports" and the CFL....Perry Lefko....Steve Simmons.....Marty York. Sounds like you're right up there with those characters.

Funny I saw it from the stands.

http://cfl.ca/video/index/id/21443
4:50 Hand on the back and Parker doesn't jump nearly as high as he can.

And a really good view at 5:00! Wow! Guess someone else should look at the video

[AngeloV]

.don't forget the one when he got out jumped by Forzani in the endzone. Or was that blamed on a "push" in the back? You might want to check the film on that one again - - no idea where the "push" happened,

That was definitely a push. I have no idea what you were watching there. Parker was in front of Forzani and if you honestly think Forzani is going jump over Parker when Parker has inside position, then there is no use even debating it any further.

[1argoholic]

I'll tell you who Byron will burn next year. It'll be us for a pick six.

[KCargosfan]

That was definitely a push. I have no idea what you were watching there. Parker was in front of Forzani and if you honestly think Forzani is going jump over Parker when Parker has inside position, then there is no use even debating it any further.

Agreed. Either Area 51 is blind or he has something personal against Parker.

[gilthethrill]

Agreed. Either Area 51 is blind or he has something personal against Parker.

If Forzani did that on the street he would get charged....missed call...sorry Area 51.

[paulwoods13]

During my time covering sports, almost every DB knows when they've been scored on. They know the names of the players that even scored on them. It's embedded in their heads. Next time you have the opportunity to ask a DB, or even your kids....they know when they been beaten.

So are we to infer that Parker has told you he's been beaten six times for TDs in his career? Or told someone else?

Anyone who has covered sports probably also knows that most pro athletes have big egos -- it's part of what makes them successful athletes, actually. So it's not out of the realm of possibility that an athlete's recollection about how many times he failed to do something might be different from objective reality.

I'm not saying Parker was a bad cornerback or was beaten dozens of times -- I've already said that I thought he was a good CB and clearly he has made many huge plays. I just have a hard time believing he was beaten for a TD only six times in a seven-year career. I don't know if any CB in pro football could make such a claim legitimately in this day and age.

Leaving aside the issue of Parker's coverage abilities, I've just watched that clip of Forzani/Parker a few times and I am having trouble seeing how the contact Forzani made impeded Parker. Maybe I'm missing something. Is that really the way we want things called? I know if it was an Argo receiver and he was called for PI on that play, I'd be ticked.

[Area 51]

So there's a blantantly obvious PI that's apparently worthy of police filing assault charges - - but the ref missed it...the announcers missed it....the reporters missed it? More importantly, how did so many forum members miss it? When I mentioned in the post game discussion how Parker got out jumped by a 6'1 white guy from Canada, nobody was crying a river about any push in the back then. So what changed between then and now?

There was no push off - - Parker mistimed his jump and Forzani hung six on him. If you can't see that on film, I've slowed it down for you with pictures. Parker's at the peak of his jump and the ball's nowhere near. #28 is flatfooted when the ball arrives.

383940

[Mulder]

So there's a blantantly obvious PI that's apparently worthy of police filing assault charges - - but the ref missed it...the announcers missed it....the reporters missed it? More importantly, how did so many forum members miss it? When I mentioned in the post game discussion how Parker got out jumped by a 6'1 white guy from Canada, nobody was crying a river about any push in the back then. So what changed between then and now?

There was no push off - - Parker mistimed his jump and Forzani hung six on him. If you can't see that on film, I've slowed it down for you with pictures. Parker's at the peak of his jump and the ball's nowhere near. #28 is flatfooted when the ball arrives.

383940

Why are you only posting pictures that validate your theory? Wind the clock back a half second.

http://www.argofans.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=41&d=1329691344
http://www.argofans.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42&d=1329691677

Yup, no push off, and as you claim, he never touched Parker and got out jumped. sure bud.

[Area 51]

Did Forzani "push" Parker into the air? That kind of "contact" happens on pretty much every play. The arguement of a push off might have had some merit if it had prevented Parker from making a play on the ball. Bottom line is, he mistimed the jump and blew the coverage.

Still haven't answered the question about how everyone failed to mention this "assault" until now.

[Mulder]

Did Forzani "push" Parker into the air? That kind of "contact" happens on pretty much every play. The arguement of a push off might have had some merit if it had prevented Parker from making a play on the ball. Bottom line is, he mistimed the jump and blew the coverage.

Still haven't answered the question about how everyone failed to mention this "assault" until now.

Because, in the end this play did not change the outcome of the game. We won. If we lost this play would have been scrutinized.

[Area 51]

So do you still think the phantom push off is what caused Parker to jump early?

[paulwoods13]

I would still like to know how everyone wants that type of play called in the future. There was contact but IMO it did not impede, or at most only slightly impeded, the DB from playing the ball. Do folks want that sort of minor contact called as pass interference?

[KCargosfan]

So do you still think the phantom push off is what caused Parker to jump early?

Did Parker kill your dog or something? Seems like you really hate the guy.

[ArgoGabe22]

Did Parker kill your dog or something? Seems like you really hate the guy.

Well BP did call him out in one of his posts

[eiben35]

Kevin Eiben will be missed. I bought his shirt last season and I'm pissed that Barker did not re-sign him. Hamilton is kicking the crap out of us in regards to next season.

[AngeloV]

I would still like to know how everyone wants that type of play called in the future. There was contact but IMO it did not impede, or at most only slightly impeded, the DB from playing the ball. Do folks want that sort of minor contact called as pass interference?

Paul, if the defender did what Forzani did on that play to a receiver, it would be called PI 99 times out of 100. That is definitely a PI call.


Kevin Eiben will be missed. I bought his shirt last season and I'm pissed that Barker did not re-sign him. Hamilton is kicking the crap out of us in regards to next season.

Perhaps, but I believe everybody thought the Philadelphia Eagles would cake walk through their division after their off season moves as well. Remains to be seen what happens. Great talent doesn't always translate to great chemistry.

[ArgoRavi]

Perhaps, but I believe everybody thought the Philadelphia Eagles would cake walk through their division after their off season moves as well. Remains to be seen what happens. Great talent doesn't always translate to great chemistry.

Well said, Angelo! I can remember Ottawa being very active in free agency prior to the 1990 season. They signed five or six name free agents from other teams. They improved that year from 4-14 in '89 to 7-11 in '90 but they did not improve as much as expected. Free agency doesn't tend to be the best way to build football teams. It is a good way to fill holes but it looks like the Ticats are doing more than just that. It might work out okay for them - and it would be best for southern Ontario if both they and the Argos have great seasons - but how the team gels can be tough to predict. The Ticats still have some major issues along both lines IMO and there are questions about their secondary as well. The east looks wide open but I don't think that Hamilton necessarily looks a whole lot better than anyone else at this point.

[Ron]

So, Eiben - with CFL D playmaking / tackle leading seasons in the CFL - didn't have to be better than other guys available to the Argos then, or now, cause he was just there because of the ratio ??? - are you for real? You`d rather see over-rated mediocres like Kuale in the line-upÉ Yeah - and Parker couldn't play zone or man either - to some football MENSA types here ??? Laughable stuff - keep it up with the good yucks here.

You misread me. People here are stating that Eiben can't start in Hamilton because the 3 LB's they have now are better. My reply stated it doesn't necessarily matter if they are actually better or not. I said nothing about Eiben's time as a starter in Toronto.

No ... I wrote with regards to his starting chances in Hamilton: "Eiben doesn't have to be better than a guy top get the starters job. It all depends how the ratio numbers fall."



Why are you only posting pictures that validate your theory? Wind the clock back a half second.

http://www.argofans.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=41&d=1329691344
http://www.argofans.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=42&d=1329691677

Yup, no push off, and as you claim, he never touched Parker and got out jumped. sure bud.

I see no proof of a push off. Pretty hard to push off when both of your feet are in the air.

Area 51 - 1 Mulder - 0

[KCargosfan]

Pretty hard to push off when both of your feet are in the air.



Really? I do it playing basketball all the time.

[paulwoods13]

Paul, if the defender did what Forzani did on that play to a receiver, it would be called PI 99 times out of 100. That is definitely a PI call.

I don't agree, AV. I've seen way worse contact that was not penalized, and it's a fairly frequent occurrence. PI is a difficult penalty to call because of the speed and fluidity of motion and the fact that stuff often happens in mid-air, with a lot of twisting and turning. I honestly don't see what Forzani did as having prevented Parker from making the play. To me that should be the test -- if what the opponent does prevents you from making a play, call it. If not, let it go. I realize that involves judgment but so does PI as it stands now. The other alternative is to call any contact at all PI -- that would increase scoring since most calls would go against the defence.

[Area 51]

Did Parker kill your dog or something? Seems like you really hate the guy.



It might seem that way, but the reality is I've never considered Parker to be anything more than just another player, or former player as it is. Not sure if you remember how this originated, but it was Parker who went so far as to invite me to practice to line up for a one-on-one challenge. Seemed very strange to me, and the media apparently thought so too as the incident received national coverage.

Now it seems that any hint of a reference I make to Parker is now immedietely attacked - - even if I just say "Spider Man" - - either by Parker himself or his small legion of apologists. Then I spend time responding to questions like yours, or correcting errors of fact such as the exaggerated estimation of career INTs surrendered and allegations of offensive pass interference/assault.

You may have found it as uncanny as I have at how many times Parker specifically references me in his posts here - - either thanking me profusely or awkwardly stating that he loves me. Not sure if I should be flattered or frightened at this kind of man-crush. Now that he's moved on to BC, hopefully Parker and his loyalists will realize that he's no longer relevant as a player or as a topic of discussion.

[gilthethrill]

Area 51 has the mentality of GM.

[Area 51]

Area 51 has the mentality of GM.



GM? Do I somehow remind you of Jim Barker?

[gilthethrill]

GM? Do I somehow remind you of Jim Barker?

Not necesarily Jim Barker...just that you have no emotional ties to a player. Not a bad thing.

[RoRoYoBoat]

Not necesarily Jim Barker...just that you have no emotional ties to a player. Not a bad thing.

Maybe he's Jim, that would explain not taking him up on the one on one. :)

Parker is a fine player, just does not fit with what Jones is doing. Jones wants guys who bump and grind, tangle receivers arms, play the man from snap to whistle if you want. Parker likes to play the ball which is what they do in Stubbler's defense.

[argonaut11xx]

Hmmm....this is an Eiben thread....my two cents...........glad he's gone..he's old, broken, and slow....

[JY26]

It was offensive Pass Interference.

[Oarsman]

Not necesarily Jim Barker...just that you have no emotional ties to a player. Not a bad thing.
Hmmm. I think Area51's wife feels the same way. :p